Rick McTague

And if it was innocent protesting, why did it happen right in the kill zone marked by the yellow-painted curbing at the same time JFK was being murdered, and right next to a random man with a radio-shaped device in his pocket making a military-style gesture at the same time?  Why not anywhere else along the motorcade route, at a different time, in a crowd of just regular people waving?  Are we to explain it away, like so many other events around the JFK assassination, as mere "coincidence"?

BTW Larry - I am reading "Someone Would Have Talked" and I am thoroughly fascinated by the level of detail and connections you make throughout this finely crafted book.

Thanks.

On 10/14/2018 at 1:50 AM, Denny Zartman said:

 

But, back here in reality, JFK was hit in the back with a bullet that did not go through his body and only made a shallow wound. JFK was also hit in the front of the throat by a separate bullet. Every medical professional that saw the anterior throat wound before the tracheostomy thought it was one of entrance. There were more fragments left in Connally than could have possibly come from the nearly pristine bullet that was alleged to have caused seven wounds on two men going through at least five layers of clothing and two bones, and then came out of Connally's thigh, on it's own and was not only barely deformed but also clean of blood, tissue, and fibers.

 

Denny,

Very good summary of the wounds and very probable shot sequences and damage, all based on facts, evidence and statements from experienced medical professionals before the coverup machine manufactured the lone shooter story.  You could add to your list however something along the lines of "In the same fraction of a second that JFK was hit in the back of the head, another round came from the front, striking him on the right temple area above the right eye at the hairline.  This caused a massive blowout of the back rear portion of his skull, some of which coated Officer Hargis to JFK's left rear with blood and brain matter, and sent a large fragment of his skull flying to the left rear into the grass of the plaza to be found by Harper the next day."  (I think it was the next day, could have been 11/22.)

Adding in this and the shots that wounded Connally would make it complete in my opinion.  

The behavior/ballistics of FMJ rounds and fragmenting rounds are very different in reality; only with the MC ammo can one find one study that FMJ rounds behave significantly different based on where they strike the body.  Apparently, when they cause 7 wounds in two men, including one of the hardest bones in the body (JBC's wrist), we can expect MC FMJ rounds to remain nearly pristine.  When the same round hits one man in the skull, we can expect them to fragment apart.  

Like many other areas of the JFK assassination, everyday reality, observations and physics must give way to special and illogical physics-defying behavior in this one case, on that one day, as related to that one man who fired that one type of ammo from that one rifle from that one window.  Any other day, any other murder would follow everyday procedures and physics.

Thank you.

On 10/10/2018 at 5:59 PM, David Von Pein said:

Yes, the 4 rounds were all of one type --- FMJ / Western Cartridge Company / Mannlicher-Carcano / 6.5 mm. bullets.

 

David,

Can you please offer an explanation on how a FMJ round could leave a trail of small fragments in JFK's head (From James D's post for reference: 7. Do you mean the trail of particles that Humes wrote about which he said went from the bottom of the skull in the rear to the top connecting that trail?  Except that when Jeremy Gunn showed him the x ray in the archives today, and asked him if he saw that, Humes said, no its not there.) while the exact same type of round made 7 wounds in JFK and JBC and came out nearly pristine as CE399?

I'm curious how two identical FMJ rounds can behave so differently; I would think that only a frangible / explosive round could cause the damage in JFK's head and leave the dust trail of lead.

Thanks

Rick

Just read both interviews on JFK Countercoup2 with Tosh Plumlee.  He offers insights into Roselli, Nicoletti and others and their involvement in the Dealey Plaza operation.

He sounds reasonable and credible in these interviews; maybe they are old news here but it was sure new to me.  Connections with military intelligence abound.  Roscoe White being in Hawaii when LHO was there.  LHO present at the "Illusionary Warfare Training at Nagshead, North Carolina in 1959 prior to him going to language school and going to Russia."  Both White and LHO undergoing jungle warfare training.  His view of the assassination from the south knoll, after he and his partner Sergio searched the site for sniper teams.  My only wish is that there was a plat of Dealey Plaza where he could point out where he was, and where the three shooting teams were.  Each team consisting of a spotter, shooter and breakdown man.  He smelled gunpowder at the south knoll.

Much good information here that helps round out what happened that day.

Thanks

41 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

The explosive force of the Z313 head shot was probably a pretty good sign to Oswald that he had hit (and killed) his target. There was no need to fire a 4th shot at all. So he didn't. (He chambered the fourth bullet, but decided he didn't need to kill the dead man again.) [IMHO]

David,

Your post brings to mind two questions I have:

1. Did LHO use the same type of ammo in those 4 rounds? (Type being full metal jacket, jacketed hollow point (JHP), or frangible, etc.)

2. Why didn't LHO load the MC clip full? It holds 6 rounds and there was evidence of only 4 in the TSBD.

Thanks

On 10/6/2018 at 3:03 AM, Andrej Stancak said:

I asked Fred on September 16 about how he as a LN defender assimilated into his LN theory the reports of several witnesses seeing people and/or puffs of smoke on Grassy Knoll during the shooting. In my view, the witness reports of Jean Hill, S.M. Holland, Lee Bowers, Bill and Gale Newman, J.C. Price, and Ed Hoffman (my list is not complete) cannot be dismissed. Newman's only heard bullets being fired from their right and  behind, they did not see any shooters, but they were clear about shots arriving from the Grassy Knoll. How does the LN theory fare with these data? Fred did not answer. And so I still do not know what a LN theorist thinks about data which so clearly disprove the LN view.

Andrej,

Not to mention the nose-witnesses who said they smelled gunsmoke in DP at the time of the shootings (Sen. Ralph Yarborough, etc.).  There is no way gunsmoke could have wafted down Elm all the way down from the easternmost 6th floor window of the TSBD.  I'm guessing DVP and others will say they were mistaken....

Thanks

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

 The whole scene of the opened black umbrella waving around with it's stiffly erect standing owner's anti-JFK protest motive was so uniquely weird and odd and out-of-place, relative to "every other person" in that crowd of hundreds, any half-way curious person studying the pictures of the scene that day would be stopped by this ominous looking anomaly.

This weird and brazen protest behavior happening right during the 6 second time frame shooting and within feet of the kill zone ( whether coincidence or not ) quite logically takes it to a level beyond curious...to suspicious.

 

Joe,

As always, I appreciate your revealing and reasonable posts / replies.  I think you can add to this odd behavior the DCM pumping his fist up and down at the same time as UM is pumping the umbrella up and down, right at the section of Elm marked by the yellow painted curbs and right at the kill zone where a "flurry of shots" entered the limo right as Greer slowed to nearly a stop as complicit in the plot, guiding the shooters to keep firing.

Thanks

2 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Yes Rick... it does...

you have to reload the entire thing again... 

 

The fact he took test footage of the Hester's on Side B in Dealey negates any argument that the ELM TURN was missed due to changing the film...

 

 

 

Thanks, David.  My misunderstanding that the film didn't have to be turned around.  Yet, the narrator in the original video relates the motorcade section of the film as giving him time to turn the film around which you've proven happened before Mr. Z got to DP that day.  Still makes me wonder what they (Hawkeyeworks / NPIC) didn't want anyone to see by removing that Elm turn section of the film....

Thanks

On 10/2/2018 at 12:12 PM, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

That keeps ducking up and down on the follow-up car before the assassination?

Who is this agent?

@Vince Palamara

 

Keyva,

Why do you think he says twice "Zapruder had time to turn his film around"?  A 16mm film does not need to be "turned around" by the camera operator.  This is done by the development lab, who slits it into (2) 8mm sections, turns the latter section to the end of the first, to make one long 8mm film ready for the projector.

He's using this as an excuse for the missing gap of film of the limo making the turn onto Elm.

Thoughts?
Thanks

2 hours ago, David Boylan said:

Based upon James Richards research and things I've learned subsequently,  Umbrella Man was Roy Hargraves. His companion and good friend was Felipe Vidal Santiago. The reason for the umbrella was an F-you for the "umbrella" of air protection being removed from the BOP landing site.

http://www.historynet.com/cold-war-bay-of-pigs-invasion.htm

‘Colonel Frank,’ the American commander in Guatemala, confided: ‘We’ll protect the invasion with an umbrella,’ he said. ‘The air will belong to us. No car can travel without being bombed. We don’t need more men.’

Disaster predicted became disaster realized. Although the invasion was on, JFK was keeping his word to the Alliance for Progress that the United States would not be openly involved in it. He reneged on the CIA promise that an ‘umbrella’ of U.S. fighters would protect the landing; the Navy would perform only picket duty off the Cuban coast; and there would be no follow-up strikes against Castro’s airfields.

 

David,

If it was truly a protest, why was he not elsewhere on the several miles of motorcade route?  Why was he standing right in the yellow-painted curb kill zone, pumping it up and down just as shots came into the limo, exactly at the same time DCM pumped his fist up and down ("form on me")?  Way too many "coincidences" for him to just randomly show up and protest at that place, at that time.  No doubt those who invested in the BOP were seething at JFK for lack of air protection - I think some of them participated in a "protest" with bullets and coordination, not  with an umbrella.

Thanks

15 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

 

Havean't seen much discussion on his image. Where does this image place the 7 spokes/8 spokes umbrella debate?

Micah,

Where did this picture come from?  It doesn't look like 11/22/63, maybe a re-enactment?  DCM is east of UM and in the photos and films of 11/22/63, he is standing west of him, as shown in the pictures below.

Thanks

18 hours ago, David Josephs said:

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?15183-Boise-B-Smith#.W7Kc9ntKiUk

There seems to be more to Boise B Smith, than meets the eye....  

He too was part of Crichton's 488th... along with these DPD key personnel:  Lumpkin, Revill, Gannaway, Westbrook, Hill...

Many of the same names who graduated from the FBI National Academy in '59.

hmmm... FBI, Military Intelligence, Dallas....

It's interesting that one of the names on this list, "James M Souter, Lieutenant, PD" is similar in name to Jean Soutre.  I wonder if any connection there exists....

Thanks

Thank you for that drone video, David.  Very nice.  When I go there periodically, and even in this video, I am astounded at the idiots who feel it is necessary to stand on the "X" and have their picture taken, smiling like the idiots they are.  People just have no shame nor sense of the gravity of what happened.  Just sticks in my craw, so to speak.

Thanks

16 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

Also, let's bring up two more undeniable facts:

1. The dynamics of a full metal jacket bullet in a downward angle entering the skull below and to the right of the occipital protuberance would not magically change direction and exit on the top of the skull.

 

 

Keyvan,

While the "magic bullet" and the other rounds in the TBSD were certainly full metal jacket, the round that entered JFK's head had to be a frangible round to do that much explosive damage and leave the cloud of tiny fragments seen in the x-rays, expanding from front to back.  A full metal jacket round would do just what the supposed magic bullet did: penetrate, stay in tact, and keep on penetrating through the head and exiting out.

Thanks

On 9/22/2018 at 1:49 PM, Joe Bauer said:

Very uninformed regards the medical terminology and knowledge context of these postings.

However, just a side thought regarding the comments made by these doctors at the 11 minute mark of the video.

Yes, 15 years is a long time and anyone ( even professionals ) can forget some details of anything they saw, heard, touched, examined etc. that long ago. Almost expected as normal.

However, even granting this, when looking at and assessing JFK's skull damage while looking at the photos, one doctor asked the other doctors whether the brain was removed before or after this skull damage photo was taken.  And like a previous poster noted, the one doctor who answered ( Humes?) wasn't sure.

Wasn't sure?

Couldn't these doctors know whether a brain was removed from a skull just by looking at the exterior of a skull as blown apart as JFK's was , where you could see right into the brain cavity?

Also, the questioning doctor didn't ask if the "brain" had been removed, but rather whether the brain "tissue" had been removed. To me that sounds as if JFK's brain matter was in pieces rather than anywhere near intact as a whole or part of a whole.

And it was mentioned that one flap of JFK's skull was so long, it hung down and touched not just the cheek of JFK ... but his shoulder as well? 

Now THAT'S some major skull damage.

The whole issue of JFK's brain removal ( time, method, who did this, who witnessed this  ) is so important and it seems that there is so much contradictory testimony that no one really knows the truth of it all.

 

 

Joe,

Even lowly technician Paul O'Connor was very clear that when they took JFK's body out of the pink shipping casket and the body bag (both of which did not come from Dallas), there was no brain in the cavity.  He said it was simply gone, you could reach both fisted hands into it.  Why wasn't that as clear to Humes and the others?

Thanks

11 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

In my opinion, this Kellerman answer of the later gun firing sounds being so "different" from the first firecracker sounding one is so clearly more important in what it implies than not, it's absurdly illogical not to recognize and seriously consider this.

This difference in the sounds and intensity of the shots could be solid proof that there was more than one shooter and one gun being fired at JFK in Dealey Plaza on 11,22,1963. 

Kellerman's description of the difference using the analogy of the sound a passing jet makes when surpassing the sound barrier versus a firecracker sound may not be the most relatively experienced and understood one but it's clear in it's message that the difference was "significant." 

When I think of a jet flying over me and creating a sonic BOOM I remember this sound as being so powerful you "feel" it's intensity. Almost like a close by thunderclap. Most people instinctively duck down a little from this powerful blast.

Whereas a firecracker sound or even a car backfire sound may startle you also but not near as much as a sonic boom, especially if these firecracker and backfire sounds aren't right next to you.

It's a point and question of intensity.

All three or more shots occurred on Elm Street only 75 feet apart ( 190 ft first shot-265 ft last head shot ) and in the same physical landscape tunnel like location where the acoustics ( including echos ) should have been the same or at least not noticeably different.

With no significant difference in shot target and acoustic location ( and origination? ) how does one rationally dismiss Kellerman's firm recollection of the shot sounds after the first one being distinctly different - firecracker versus sonic boom?

And many other ear witnesses in Dealey Plaza that day also stated that the gun shot sounds differed, most commonly in their intensity. Firecracker pop ( first shot ) versus BOOM later shots. Echoing Kellerman's WC sworn testimony.

All of which makes it more reasonable to consider different guns were firing at JFK.

 

 

 

Joe,

In addition to the different sounds of the shots reasonably proving multiple firearms in use that day, I would add the different ammunition types in use also reasonably prove multiple firearms used by multiple shooters.  Full metal jacket rounds that penetrate and keep penetrating (the through the windshield throat shot, the bullet found on the stretcher).  Fragmenting rounds that penetrate then break apart / mushroom (the head shot, the fragments left in JBC's wrist and leg).  

Thanks 

Micah,

I might add: with the same ammunition supposedly used - 2 full metal jacket rounds (one miss, one the magic bullet) and 1 frangible round (for the head shot), all made for that rifle?

Add to that the fact that one of the 3 spent hulls found in the TSBD had a crimped edge where no bullet could have been fired from it .... 

Thanks

Jamey,

What is the link to the video you were watching?

Thanks

On 8/19/2018 at 4:48 PM, David Von Pein said:

Waist level (of course). She just didn't remember that detail about the camera when she was asked about it later on.

We could have a drinking game of when those who support the WC say "xxxxx didn't remember" or "xxxx was mistaken" on all aspects of the JFKA.  Like every doctor at Parkland didn't remember / was mistaken on the back of JFK's head being blown out, or that the throat wound was a small round wound of entrance.

And those nose witnesses who smelled gunsmoke on DP after the shots were mistaken, and those who saw smoke from under the trees didn't remember those details accurately.

The entire WC report is based on those mistaken / misremembered observances.

Thanks

5 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

Isn't the red blob on the Zapruder film the red inner surface of a skull fragment that flipped outward and hung on by the scalp?

Micah,

While you provide a likely explanation for what we see in the extant Z film, none of the Parkland staff describe JFK's head wound anywhere near what the Z film shows.

They described a baseball size exit wound in the back of the head, which is not visible in the Z film.

If the Z film is authentic, why didn't the Parkland staff describe what is seen in it today?

Thanks

33 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

I just watched a You Tube interview of New York City organized crime figure Michael Franzese.

Franzese was born in 1951. His father was in the business so he naturally became a member himself.

Franzese's claim to fame is how at a fairly young age he became one of the highest earning members of organized crime.  He was known and respected for his intelligence and ability to think up criminal schemes that eventually brought the mob hundreds of millions of dollars and maybe even billions.

He knew the top people ( mob, business, politics, etc ) because of this.

His massive rip off schemes were eventually found out and ended, but he served relatively limited time behind bars and is a free man today.

He says in this interview that he knows exactly what happened to Jimmy Hoffa, but that he can never reveal the full truth of his whacking.

The interviewer kept pressing and asking for even a hint. Franzese finally said something to the effect that Hoffa ended up in "very deep water" after he was whacked.

Cement shoes?

Saw Jimmy Hoffa interviewed on the Dick Cavett show after Hoffa was released from jail and not long before he was eliminated. You should really watch this interview.

Hoffa spends some of the interview time saying how bad prisons were and how abused prisoners were by staff and even more so by other prisoners including violent rape. He wanted to help initiate some type of prison reform in this way.

When Hoffa was confronted with questions about the JFK assassination and RFK's, you could so clearly see the lack of remorse. 

I sensed that he wanted JFK and Robert Kennedy killed in the most passionate way. And I sensed Hoffa knew more about who did JFK than he would ever let on.

It is weird seeing this Jimmy Hoffa interview knowing that not long after, Hoffa himself would be whacked.

I am convinced that American Organized Crime played some part in the assassinations of not just JFK, but RFK and MLK as well.

Joe,

I recently finished a book called "Mob Lawyer: Including the Inside Account of Who Killed Jimmy Hoffa and JFK", depicting the life of attorney Frank Ragano, who represented both Santo Trafficante and Jimmy Hoffa.  He was part of the messaging lines between Hoffa, Trafficante and Carlos Marcello.  Fascinating, detailed, documented and well written.  You'll see the other side of life around these people in the 1950's - 1980's. He was on the inside but did what he could to remain within the law.

Well worth the read.

Thanks

14 hours ago, John Butler said:

Cliff,

Yep.  This is the 3rd shot.  I believe he received one head wound and at least 3 shots to the back.  You have to slow the AMIPA film down to see this.  I think I put maybe 3 seconds between frames.  As far as head wounds go this one is on the forehead at the right temple just before the hairline.  You can see it in some of these frames.  Read Jackie Kennedy's statements carefully.  She's mostly ignored.  She said she heard shots just before she saw a blue-grey building coming up on Main Street.  This building area is today the Kennedy Monument.  She talked about his head wound as just being bone visible and no blood.  This doesn't sound like the big blowout wound on Elm Street. 

 

John,

To me, it looks like passenger aircraft are in the reflection on the limo - if so, this clip is while they are still at Love Field.  I could seriously be mistaken as well.  Do you have confirmation of the location of this clip?

Thanks

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

If the throat wound is an entrance, then why is there no bullet??

 

 

Sandy,

Without getting into 100% of what David Lifton talked about in BE regarding body modification between Parkland and Bethesda, it does seem like the throat wound's appearance had 3 stages:

1. At impact in DP, seen at Parkland by many doctors and nurses who deal with bullet wounds every day as a small round wound that appeared like an entrance.

2. After the tracheostomy by Dr. Perry was completed, over the wound site, only big enough to perform that procedure, where the wound closes up around the tube.  I think I saw where the tubes were 3/4" in diameter?  

3. At the time of the "stare of death photo" in Bethesda (?) where it is around 2" wide, a much larger open gash than the result from #2 above, with the purpose of appearing like a wound of exit.  

It seems to me that if someone modified/enlarged the throat wound to make it appear as an exit wound, that same procedure could be used to remove a bullet or fragment from that wound which clears the path for CE399 to be the culprit.  

Just a suggestion - I'd be interested in your views on it.  I think I know what CV and DVP might reply with...

Thanks

10 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

The reason I believe these things is because there is corroboration for both ways that the body was bright in. I don't agree with everything Lifton wrote in Best Evidence, but  I believe that he is right about these things.

 

Sandy,

Nicely put.  The witnesses and evidence for the multiple caskets, multiple casket entries by multiple teams are totally believable.  I don't know if you've seen this video or not, of a member of the honor guard Hugh Clark speaking at a JFK conference with Jim Marrs, Peter Dale Scott and others is one example.  BTW, his book "Betrayal is a fascinating read.

Thanks

2 minutes ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

IMO - How can anyone at parkland see the back of JFK's head when he was faceup in the operating table?  This is what I am conflicted with.  Did they flip JFK to be butt up so they can see the wound at the back of the head?  The nurse stated that she never saw the bullet wound on the back of JFK, so I assume no.  All the hard evidence; X-rays, Autopsy pictures point to a cavity at the right top side of JFK's head.

Keyvan,

If what you say is true, why would so many professionals at Parkland who are used to dealing with trauma every day put their reputations on the line for claiming to see the wounds as they saw them if they didn't in fact see them?  They were trying to save his life, and the condition of his head was blatantly obvious while at Parkland.  There are other explanations for the significant differences between JFK's body at Parkland and at Bethesda, what is depicted in the incomplete set of autopsy photos and x-rays.

Thanks