6 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

You don't understand the "tangled snarl" that has grown up around the implementation of the JFK Act?  It's really not that difficult.

 

In '92 Congress passed (unanimously in both houses!) the JFK Act to establish the ARRB to search for and release to the public all remaining JFK information (records), so the public could decide for themselves what happened that day.  All JFK records were to be housed in the JFK Collection at NARA.

 

It was to be an enormous task. Congress was wise enough to delegate the responsibility to the new Board to define the records they were to look for.  The board defined record as broadly as possible--all information relative to understanding the murder regardless of the form it takes or who possess it (though it took them until the summer of '95 to issue a final definition). Only in the "rarest" of circumstances, Congress said, should information still be withheld.

 

But, abhorring permanent bureaucracies, Congress gave the new Board a short life to at least begin the job. Initially the Board was to last only 2 years.  That was later expanded to 6 years.  The Board closed in '98.

 

Congress knew the job would not be finished by then, so they set a deadline 25 years in the future when they expected completion (2017).  But they supplemented  that. The Act says, Section 12 (b), that the search and release of records shall continue until NARA's Archivist certifies to the President and Congress that all JFK records have been made available for public view.

 

Whose job, then, has it been to to continue the job the Board started?  Bill and Larry filed the MFF suit claiming it's NARA's job and they haven't been doing it.  

 

No one in the case disputes NARA's (lack of) performance in the last 25+years.

 

Instead, Judge Seeborg rejected out of hand (in both his decisions) the assertion that continuing the record search was NARA's responsibility. The ARRB and NARA were "two distinct entities, separately referenced in the JFK Act, and tasked with separate statutory functions", he said.

 

He pointed to the Section 12 (a) termination of the Board and concluded that neither NARA, nor any other agency, can on its own volition "legally assume obligations so terminated".

 

That was a massive misreading of the Act.  Section 12 (b) explains that the search and release obligations were *not* terminated when the Board closed. They were to continue until NARA's Archivist certifies that all records have been released to the public.  Seeborg never mentioned 12 (b) in his initial decision. 

 

Seeborg never addressed the threshold question of exactly who then is responsible for the work Congress envisioned remaining when the Board closed, if it is not NARA. 

 

By denying to NARA or anyone the responsibility for the job, it was easy for Seeborg to reject all of the important points of the suit itself that argued for an order directing NARA to implement the Act. 

 

In filings after the initial deciosn, Bill and Larry pressed Seeborg on 12 (b).

 

He was forced to quote the 12 (b) language.  Yet, incredibly, he directly followed the acknowledgement of NARA's Archivist's responsibility by simply regurgitating the same nonsense about NARA itself having no further responsibilities. And he added, as I already explained, to turn the knife.

 

As if NARA and its Archivist were distinct and separate entities, with different tasks and responsibilities, like he claimed was the case for the Board and NARA.  The Archivist runs NARA.   

 

In short, Seeborg has erected a massive roadblock toward any efforts to use the JFK Act as it was intended.

 

Smelling blood I presume, Biden has come along with his blatantly illegal "transparency plan" to try to finish the job of eliminating any usefulness of the JFK Act.  Seeborg has waived that through too. 

 

 

RO-

Thank you for your synopsis of the fake US government's suppression of the JFK Records Act. 

When I say I don't understand what has happened, I mean I do not understand what appear to be entirely specious and fake arguments made by Merrick Garland's Justice Department, or the rank perfidious of Judge Seeborg. 

18 minutes ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

@Tom Gram we have some ideas about missing or destroyed records. For example, there are footnoes in Book V of the Church Committee Report that cites documents that are not in the JFK Collection or the current Church Committee records. The LHO mexico city tapes were destroyed but we know Mexican Government was given dupes. We are asking for them. The Sheridan files were physically removed from the JFK Library (technically a part of the NARA presidential records system) and given to NBC. 

What happened to the reports sumarizing the investigation conducted Donald Heath over the weekend of the assassination  into potential exile and cuban involvement in the assassination. his memo said he saw those reports in 1973 in a storage cabinet at Langley. What happened to them? were they destroyed?

We have accounts that a ONI investigation on oswald was done in the weeks after the assassination and the investigatve materials were stored at naval bases around the world so they would not be found if a record search was done  in DC.  

we also want to find out what records were actually searched at CIA. did they actually search every nook where records could have been stored?  It is unclear. I'd like to depose CIA officials to see where they looked. 

Just some examples. I'm sure others have ideas/suggestions. if you do, please contact Bill Simpich and me. 

BTW- not only did NBC refuse to turn over the Sheridan files to ARRB (who commenced lawsuit that was terminated when ARRB went out of business) but it has also refused to share the Darnall film so that it can be analyzed usingmodern forensic techniques. There should be an outcry launched against NBC for withholding these materials that have been identified as "assassination" records.    

Thank you Larry Schnapf for your efforts to recover records that belong to the public, now suppressed by the US government, which is instituting increasingly depraved arguments and tactics to do so.

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

If there were two Oswalds (and I believe there were) then the records that Jim presented show that both the one that went to Taiwan and the one who stayed in Japan, being treated for VD, both had the same military service number, 1653230.

 

 

The two Oswalds would have been placed in different units. The military had to have been cooperating with an intelligence service in order to keep two separate sets of records.

I've never thought the two Oswalds looked liked twins... only that the could have passed for one another in situations where other people wouldn't have become acquainted with their specific looks.

 

Is this something that might be revealed if the JFK Records were to be released? 

10 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Jim Hargrove, this is a serious question not intended to be flippant: in this theory of two Oswalds in the same Marines unit sharing a single Marines file, did these two Oswalds share the same Social Security number and the same bunk? 

If they had different ID numbers and were in different bunks, wouldn’t some of the other Marines have noticed, and wouldn’t there have been separate military files as two persons? 

I don’t know the explanation of the Taiwan vs non-Taiwan paperwork discrepancy, but surely there is some simpler resolution than two Oswalds with identical first and middle names in the same Marines unit?

If there was a secret govt plan to have two lookalikes with identical names (but who were genetically unrelated) have separate lifetime histories covertly without it being common open knowledge that there were these Siamese Twin Oswalds (so to speak), would it make sense to put them in the same military unit at the same time, if the idea was to keep it secret? 

That was my question too.

1. Back then, did not military personnel have unique military ID numbers? Or Marines did?

2. Did the two Oswalds share an ID, or have different IDs, while in the service? 

3. To date, no one in the Marines, especially an ordinary Marine, has come forward to say they saw both Oswalds, or thought there were Oswald twins, or thought there were two Oswalds who were nearly look-a-like brothers etc?  It is a curiosity that no one in the Marines seemed to have noticed twin Oswalds, contemporaneously, or even expressed such a view later. 

Re the JFK Records Act:

For decades, amplified after the JFKA, shrewd observers have written about "shadow government" or a Potemkin Village of US government. 

I never quite believed them. 

Is Washington merely a facade, a "fake US government"? 

Maybe so. This tangled snarl around the release of the JFK Records Act is inexplicable, and likely permanent.

And I can't understand any of it. 

This is how Bloomberg Law (part of Bloomberg) played the recent Judge Seeborg ruling. 

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/claims-in-jfk-assassination-records-suit-get-partial-green-light

I added nothing. Just an FYI on how a major news organization presented the news. 

---30---

JFK Assassination Records Suit Gets Partial Green Light (1)

Peter Hayes

Reporter

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

I wonder if a movie will be made about this legal battle some day. 

About the Transparency Board? I find the topic opaque. 

It has been posited there were two Oswalds, working in somewhat close proximity to each for a couple years, in the Marine Corp...but no one back then ever noticed. 

No Marine has ever said, "I saw the two Oswalds in the same room (mess hall, etc)." 

Or, "I thought there were Oswald twins, or brothers who looked a lot alike". 

Has anyone, either in the Marine Corps or otherwise, in schools or jobs or other organizations, ever said they saw the two Oswalds together? 

That would be an interesting revelation. 

Jeez, I cannot follow the legal arguments on this.

I admire all the lawyers here for their tenacious interest in the case, and trying to do the right thing. 

I do not understand how the US government can get away with this. This sure looks like fake government. 

It is remarkable how little citizens can learn about judges. 

This is from Wikipedia. 

---30---

Richard Gus Seeborg^[1] (born November 4, 1956) is the chief United States district judge of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California. He formerly served as a United States Magistrate Judge in the same district.

Early life and education[edit]

Born in Landstuhl, Germany, Seeborg earned a Bachelor of Arts in history summa cum laude from Yale University in May 1978 and then earned a Juris Doctor from Columbia Law School in 1981.^[2] From 1981 to 1982, Seeborg served as a law clerk to judge John H. Pratt of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.^[2][3]

Career[edit]

In 1982, Seeborg joined the San Francisco law firm of Morrison & Foerster as an associate.^[2] He became a partner with the firm in 1987.^[2] In 1991, Seeborg left Morrison & Foerster to become an Assistant United States Attorney for the Northern District of California in San Jose, California.^[2] He served in that post until 1998, when he returned to Morrison & Foerster, working as a partner and focusing on a litigation practice in the fields of securities, intellectual property, and general commercial matters.^[2][3]

Federal judicial service[edit]

On February 9, 2001, Seeborg became a United States Magistrate Judge for the United States District Court for the Northern District of California.^[2][3]

On August 7, 2009, President Barack Obama nominated Seeborg to be a United States district judge on the United States District Court for the Northern District of California.^[4] On October 15, 2009, the United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary voted to send Seeborg's nomination to the full Senate.^[5] The Senate confirmed Seeborg by unanimous consent on December 24, 2009. He received his commission on January 4, 2010.^[3] He became Chief Judge on February 1, 2021, after Phyllis J. Hamilton assumed senior status.^[6]

Notable rulings[edit]

• On March 6, 2019, Seeborg ruled that U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross could not add a question about citizenship to the 2020 United States Census.^[7][8]

• On April 8, 2019, Seeborg ruled that non-Mexican asylum seekers did not have to stay in Mexico while awaiting their court proceedings.^[9]

Personal[edit]

Seeborg resides in San Francisco, California.^[5]

5 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

May I make a simple point?  A topic, say the JFK Records Act, has many aspects to it.  New information about it, and attempts to protect it and enforce it, surface all the time.

Simply counting the times a topic is the subject of a post, does *not* establish redundancy.  Redundancy requires a showing of needless repetition. That is, it requires showing there is nothing new in the posts in question.   

Please stop your redundant posts claiming redundancy.

The historical and present treatment of the JFK Records Act, by the US Government, is topic of interest to many, I would wager the vast majority, in the EF-JFKA.

41 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Okay, but lament in silence. Or take it to the Cooler or Political Discussions board. Biden's "Transparency Plan" is not a license to bad mouth a man who a lot of forum members will be voting for.

I'm not saying anybody did that. This is just a reminder.

(Actually, one person did do that and so I deleted his post. Plus I reported him for using foul language.)

 

SL--

At the risk of having this comment deleted...

The Biden Administration is atop the current US government. 

Perhaps you should allow commentary about the Biden Administration, that does not mention his political affiliation. 

Or, may we be allowed to criticize "the US government"? 

As in, "The US government is suppressing the remaining JFK Records." 

Is that an acceptable sentence?

The JFK Records Act and its treatment by the US government is a current issue of great interest to the EF-JFKA. 

I understand you may want delete political commentary about other non-JFK Records Act issues. 

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Yes, the mysterious steel-jacketed 30.06 bullet. LHO's rifle was a 6.5 M-C, and fired copper-jacketed bullets. 

It sure looks like Van Cleave, one of two detectives on the scene who authored and signed reports attesting they had found a relatively rare "steel-jacketed" slug in the Walker home, appears to be the one who told AP  that the slug found was a "30.06."

Two patrolmen also signed reports that might attesting the true Walker slug was "steel jacketed." 

Those official reports were made same-day after the most high-profile assassination attempt in Dallas history up to that point, of a nationally prominent public figure.

You think two detectives could tell the difference between steel- and copper-jacketed bullets? Knowing that, due to the prominent nature of the Walker, their work would be scrutinized? 

The slug recovered by the DPD was never photographed in DPD custody, before it was sent to the FBI. The FBI lab says it received a copper-jacketed bullet, 6.5. 

If I had to bet, the Walker CE573 bullet now in evidence was not the bullet recovered from the Walker home on 11/22. 

20 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

I wonder why LHO wasn't smart enough to simply say nothing during the dpd interrogations. He seemed to do alot of needless talking which is generally not advised without a lawyer present. 

Some say he was signaling handlers. In a way, he said nothing. 

We are talking about a 24-year-old guy caught in a horrific situation. His interviewers described him as rude, but collected. 

If my guess is correct, he was in a bind. He was part of a false flag op gone terribly wrong. Now what to do? 

He was waiting for legal counsel, but I guess he wanted a big name lawyer.  

12 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

I didn't realise the internal partition wall in Walkers house was masonry. I assumed it was a timber stud wall. 

Was it?

I thought it was an old-fashioned residential plaster wall, over wooden slats. 

Before drywall, you would often see residential houses with horizontal thin wooden slats, running between vertical beams. I guess the plasterers will stick the plaster in there. 

It would be rare to find cinder block on an internal wall, especially in a "better" neighborhood. 

9 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

We think there were quite a few people who knew both Oswalds, a condition which seemed to be extremely bad for their healths.  One critical witness was Ed Voebel, who knew Harvey in the 8th grade and Lee in the 9th at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans.

If you want to understand John A’s extended take on Voebel, go to this page, search for Voebel, and read the paragraphs that mention him:

https://harveyandlee.net/Early/Early.html

Ed Voebel died at the Ochsner Clinic in New Orleans in May 1971 at the age of 32.  Voebel's father said that his son, healthy one day and dead the following day, died under mysterious circumstances.  He told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that he thought his son's death had something to do with Oswald and the JFK assassination, but he had no proof.  

OK. I am disputing nothing

But---the answer to the question is, in the military, no one ever testified that they saw the two Oswalds together, in the same room (or field operation, etc.).

So the two Oswalds worked in relatively near proximity for a while in the military, but as far as witnesses knew, the two never crossed paths? 

4 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Oswald only played chess in the marines though I think. I don't think there is any record of him playing chess once he arrived in the US in June 1962.

That may be. I said he liked to play chess. There may have been a shortage of chess players in Texas. Just a guess. 

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Richard Dreyfuss is an expert on America in the Middle East.

He is no big fan of Kennedy.

In his book Devil's Game, he says that Nasser was the last time you could have had peace in the area.

So please do not say its me.

Well maybe.

As I recall, Nasser evicted all Jews from Egypt on seven days notice, even though they had lived there peaceably since the time of the Pharaohs. 

Egypt made war on Israel four times, in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1969. He might have made war again, but he died. 

He printed vitriolic anti-Jewish propaganda. 

Nasser was thus dubbed the "moderate" in the Mideast by Western media.  That gives you an idea of MidEast culture. 

You might get a kick on this article.

https://www.meforum.org/62399/nasser-and-the-palestinians

Maybe Nasser was just for Nasser... 

https://vixra.org/pdf/1401.0114v1.pdf

I posted this a while back. I was asked if I actually believed it. 

Having tried to read it (I would say there was no editing), I would say there is grist for the mill there, but I am not sure what. 

E Howard Hunt was very tied into the Mormon Mafia, and so was the CIA. 

Supposedly Tosh Plumlee was an asset of the Mormon mafia. 

Rob Reiner is the latest to give credence to Tosh Plumlee. 

So what make the Mormon Mafia explanation of the JFKA not worthy, but the two LHOs tale worthy? 

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW, Feith was also associated with the Henry Jackson coterie.  I think he was brought in by Wolfowitz.

Is it not really something that the Russians had to come in to save a secular leader in the Middle East, namely Assad. And do not forget, that Nasser united Syria with Egypt for a short time before the Saudis short circuited it.  Kennedy then sent aid to Egypt to cushion the blow.

The Neocon philosophy now dominates in Washington.  Diplomacy is a four letter word.  

 

JD--

I admire your good nature and intentions, but you are casting pearls before swine, both historically and at present. 

Even JFK's advisers told him the chances for the "right of return" leading to peace were nearly nil, due to implacable Arab-Islamic hatred for even the thought of Jewish state in the Mideast. 

When Hamas says they want to kill all the Jews--well, after Oct. 7 perhaps we should believe them. 

US domestic politics appears to be fraying. You have lefties carrying signs like "Catamites for Hamas," and righties apologizing for the horror of Putin (300,000 dead in Ukraine and Putin is just warming up). 

Now Putin has become a Hamas supporter, so the circle of right-left lunacy is complete. 

It would be nice if JFK could have made peace in the Middle East. 

A certain divine figure tried, and also failed to make peace there, during the Roman occupation. 

So it goes. 

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

YES!  ABSOLUTELY! THEY NEEDED TO HAVE IDENTICAL BACKGROUNDS!

One LHO, probably a Russian speaking WWII war orphan, was named Harvey Lee Oswald; the other, an American born southerner, was named Lee Harvey Oswald.  I think the "Oswald Project" was an entirely patriotic operation designed to place a Russian-speaking "American" youth into the USSR, which is EXACTLY what happened in 1959. This was the height of the Cold War.  Three years later, in 1963, tragically, the Oswald Project was taken over by snakes organized to assassinate JFK, cover it up, and blame it on Communist Cuba!  Three or four of these snakes were in the CIA, I think.

Do you have any accounts of people simultaneously seeing or meeting both HLO/LHOs? 

That is, the two were seen together in the same room?

Or somebody said, "Oh, he must one of the Oswald twins."

21 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

That's just what Gerry Down said 3 hours ago, Ben.

(Look up....before posting.) 😁

 

DVP Oh. Thanks. Never mind. 

Wait...I think we may be barking up the wrong tree here. 

The Walker shooter, even if armed with a bolt-action single-shot rifle, would only work the bolt, and eject the shell, if he intended a second shot. 

So, the shooter aimed at Walker (or aimed to miss) fired a single shot, and ran away, never ejecting the shell (at the scene of the crime anyway). 

2 hours ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Egad. Whatever questions Curry may have had about the JFKA bullets were answered in a lab report dated 11/23 sent to him by the FBI. The idea that he was still waiting one week later for "confirmation that they were steel-jacketed" doesn't make a lot of sense. The journalist obviously knew nothing about the lab report but did have a doctor with expertise in bullet wounds who could explain the difference in behavior of dumdum bullets and regular "steel-jacketed" bullets. The misnomer "steel-jacketed" in place of simply "jacketed" may have come from either Curry, the good doctor, or the journalist himself.

That's true. Curry did receive the FBI lab report on 11/23. 

But it appears Curry continued to inquire of the FBI regarding steel-jacketed bullets thereafter, likely looking for a connection between the Walker shooting and the JFKA.

Perhaps Curry thought additional evidence was on the cusp, or that the FBI was (for legitimate reasons) holding back releasing some details to the public, as the investigation proceeded. 

Sometimes investigators play the cards close to the vest, for obvious reasons. 

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

Excellent point Gerry - I said kicking himself - why the heck have none of us thought of that before.  Bolt action rifle, fire and "bolt" especially if somebody is heard running in your direction but safest thing to do anyway.  So no shell hull to be recovered...

  -- Well done...

 

 

LH-

Might not have been a bolt-action rifle? A revolver?

.357 Magnums carry quite a wallop.