Benjamin Cole

Yes, I contend there was a PR-stunt false-flag assassination attempt, but it was piggy-backed on by CIA elements. I do not think the CIA intended Bay of Pigs to fail---they intended to corner JFK into going "all in." I am confused also, but that happens a lot...

Denny- Thanks for your comment. Yes, some people say there might be photographs of LOH on the TSBD steps. I have looked the photos. Some are too blurry to say anything. Others have been more or less confirmed as being of a fellow named Lovelady. Besides that, no one on the TSBD steps says they saw Oswald on those steps. As I said, no one says they saw LOH when shots rang out. He was invisible at the moment of the assassination. My take on that is that LOH was shooting at the President and intentionally missing, the Tague shot for example, which some people have estimated went 20 feet over the top of the limo. Amos Lee Euins witnessed the "real" shooter. I never understood the way Euins has been buried by everybody. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/euins.htm That's my best guess.

Dan Rice- Thanks for your response. But if anything, the PR-intelligence apparatus of today is even more-powerful than in the 1960s, or the 1950s when Eisenhower delivered his famous warning. David Atlee Phillips would be proud---and very, very impressed.

OK, as James DiEugenio has pointed out, there has been a spate of articles, and a recent book by former CIA Director James Woolsey, that either characterize the JFKA community as QAnon nut-types or worse, or again muddy the waters surrounding Nov. 22. So why? Why now, at this late date, does there appear to be yet another PR campaign to sabotage any serious effort to understand the events of 1963? Over at JFK Facts, Jeff Morley's blog, we get a possible clue. This is interesting. Four years ago, President Trump promised to release all the files on JFK, and evidently there are still 15,834 CIA files not open to the public. Then Trump reneged, and left those files secret, but with a mandatory review in four years. I guess Trump wanted leverage over the CIA. OK, so then Trump loses the presidential election and Biden wins. But the mandate is still in place, and the review is due this October. So...now President Biden in October will decide whether to make the CIA files, approaching 60 years old or more, public. Morley more or less less considers that Biden is creature of the Deep State, and won't make the files public. So, in this light---the October mandate---it appears efforts are again being made to make the JFKA community look like a bunch of kooks. Besides that, an ex-CIA director, who should know, contends the real story was that Oswald was a Moscow asset anyway. This latest PR campaign will allow Biden to breeze through October, with no reckoning, or even little questioning, as to why such old files are still being kept away from the public. https://jfkfacts.org/cia-director-bill-burns-will-advise-biden-on-secret-jfk-files/#more-30908 BTW, a few years back I wrote about President Nixon trying to get Bays of Pigs files from the CIA, and getting stonewalled. President Trump CIA Nixon-word.docx

JFK (and his brother) served in WWII, when actual citizens served in the military, and not a mercenary class. There were advantages to the draft military, and one was citizens like JFK who were not cowed by brass and titles---JFK had been in the military, and nearly killed in various events. The Bush Jr.s , the Obamas, and Trumps, the Bidens are at a disadvantage. I have never been comfortable with a mercenary military, for various civil and moral reasons. Perma-wars are one result. The insulting misnomer of an "all-volunteer" military is ubiquitous. But not accurate. I do not begrudge anyone seeking economic security in the shredded US economy, nor do I malign any individual's patriotism. These guys in the US military could be me, with a turn of events here or there in my life. But a citizen-soldier draft military is the true US tradition (although the US Constitution goes even further, and suggests (unpaid) volunteer citizen militias are preferred). In fact, founding father George Mason refused to sign the US Constitution as it did not have an actual prohibition on a standing army. The modern professional military-intel-foreign policy-globalist blob is not a US tradition nor true to our heritage, nor good for average US citizens and taxpayers. Don't look for Biden to shake it up.

Well, enough evidence had been concocted over previous months to make LOH into a public and known leftie-commie. So, as long as the Mannlicher-Carcano-Mauser rifle could be traced back to him, then the cover story that a "leftie-loser-Castroite LOH took a pot shot at the President but missed" would hold water. My guess is LOH was offered a safe house, new ID, more-glamorous undercover assignments, etc. The heat would be intense for a while, but "no harm no foul" and the incident would blow over eventually. However, you may be right. Every organization makes mistakes, hatches bad plans. There are Edsels everywhere, and I have crafted some of my own. Still, what you are proposing is a very dangerous plan---frame a loyal asset, who might sing like a bird after a few years in prison. Or sooner. How would other loyal assets react to this? I can't say I know a lot of intel-police types. I know the LAPD is very tight and never crosses its own. Are there other examples of the CIA setting up their own loyal officers or assets to be framed for murder?

My take is no one saw LOH at the very moment shots rang out. Not one person ever said, "Yeah, I was talking to LOH when shots rang out." Or, "We were loading boxes and heard gunfire." LOH was not photographed anywhere. As an aside, I always mention the testimony of Amos Lee Euins, a contemporaneous eye witness who says he saw the "bald" assassin (or one of them), and who (of course) was shunted aside by he WC. But the JFKA community should pay more notice. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/euins.htm

That is my understanding too. The CIA believed it had cornered JFK into providing air support but JFK could not be cowed, and instead fired CIA leadership after the debacle, as I am sure you know. But did the CIA actively plan for and devise a sure-to-fail mission? They may have been deluded, but they expected to prevail in Cuba.

Thanks for the relief, Pat Speer. Fox's Tucker Carlson, entirely out of the blue, recently decided to again rehash the "lefties invented the JFK assassination conspiracy stories to protect their fellow leftie Oswald" version of events. As I asked James DiEugenio recently, at this late date is there another effort to undercut the JFKA community? The Woolsey book also...it may be because President Biden again has the opportunity to open the the 15,834 remaining JFK files. See Jeff Morley--- https://jfkfacts.org/is-full-jfk-disclosure-possible-in-2021/#more-30893 Morley, quoting a friend, says Biden will squash the opening: Looking at Biden’s appointments to his cabinet, all of whom have close connections with the Washington Establishment, as well as Biden’s own past ties with the National Security State, the chance of these files becoming public are minimal. So it goes....

Thanks for the relief, Pat Speer. Yes, and recently Fox's Tucker Carlson, out of left field (right field?) suddenly ranted about leftists defending Oswald in a conspiracy theory....as of James DiEugenio a few days back in this forum, even at this late date, with the Woolsey book, and CNN/Fox shows, is someone is again muddying the JFK story? Jeff Morley on his blog has noted President Biden again has the opportunity to open up the remaining 15,834 still-secret JFK files. Morley thinks Biden will not. Morley quotes a friend--- Looking at Biden’s appointments to his cabinet, all of whom have close connections with the Washington Establishment, as well as Biden’s own past ties with the National Security State, the chance of these files becoming public are minimal. https://jfkfacts.org/is-full-jfk-disclosure-possible-in-2021/#more-30893 Cliff--We just disagree. The Deep State is a blob, and not a monolith, but as much as it can be quantified the Deep State (aka the Shadow Government, The Double State, the multinational-globalist, national-security-intel blob) obviously backs the modern-day Donk Party, and is deeply apprehensive of the Trump wing of the 'Phants. But have it....

Cliff-- We could do a tit-for-tat....what about the treatment of Hunter Biden's laptop as a "Russian disinformation campaign" Hunter Biden story is Russian disinfo, dozens of former intel officials say Really? You think the NYT, WaPo, Boston Globe, LA Times, CNN, MSNBC, CBS et al were "pro-Trump"? My point remains, and is germane to this forum: Keep on eye on how the "Deep State" and globalists run the media, and the country. I am aware the Biden was more popular with some ethnic and political groups than Trump, and those groups make up the Biden voting base. It is a fascinating time when perhaps it is dawning on the bases on both parties that the leadership is rotten. It happened in the GOP first. I hope they pick a better candidate next time. I hope it also happens soon for the Donk Party.

You may be right. There are a lot of whacko theories flowing around from every political stripe, and the first to coin any expression is usually blurry. Years ago I read a CIA document on how to treat prominent members of JFKA community, and my recollection is the advice was--- 1. Imply they are seeking money and fame 2. Imply they are commie-lefties seeking to absolve a fellow commie-leftie (LOH) 3. Use the words "conspiracy theory." But hey, whatever, the above three tactics have been used, and abundantly....

Cliff- I always took the Clintons to be very tight with the US military-globalist-foreign policy establishment, which has morphed into the modern Democratic Party. Apple, BlackRock, Amazon, WalMart, Disney, NBA, etc. Profits before human rights, especially in China-Hong Kong. Biden is bombing Syria and hiding from the unionization drive at Amazon, in Alabama. That is the modern Democratic Party. My take is the globalists loathed Trump for his tariffs on Beijing's CCP, and his loose talk about pulling troops out of Germany (you know, 75 years after the end of WWII) and S Korea, and his lack of interest in pursuing perma-wars in the MIdeast. I am not defending Trump on his domestic policies, or his personality. In fact, Trump can be criticized for not more aggressively pursuing a pull-out from the MIddle East. A deep dive in the whole Russiagate hoax is worth it. Trump is gone and good riddance. But the take-away is the Deep State is real, and working for the globalists-multinationals. They wanted Trump down, and they succeeded. They got Biden in there. Trump is not JFK. That is not my point. My point is to remain aware of the Deep State-globalist empire does to anyone who crosses it. ---- 1/3/17 The Hill "New Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump is “being really dumb” by taking on the intelligence community and its assessments on Russia’s cyber activities. “Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. “So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he’s being really dumb to do this.” ---30---

Of course, the very expression "conspiracy theory" was coined by the CIA to describe even earnest and solid JFKA researchers. The expression is used to "debunk" unofficial or unconventional explanations of political events. Note, the Russiagate investigation into Trump, which turned into vapors, was never dubbed a "conspiracy theory." I am not saying this to defend Trump the man. But it was interesting how the globalist-national security state went after Trump. Biden is back to bombing Syria.

Thanks for your comment. I agree that the CIA wanted to force JFK's hand, and not just on Cuba, but wherever US multinationals wanted a certain result. It gets even worse, as you know, with elements of the US military pushing JFK for a nuke war with Russia, which the US would "win." Egads. But getting back to topic, would CIA higher-ups actively plan and orchestrate the assassination of a US president, and then plan to make a patsy out of one of their own unwitting assets? This may be what happened. I prefer a plot with far fewer knowing participants. BTW, the fact that relatively low-level Cuban assets piggybacked on Phillips' false-flag fake assassination attempt (my version of history) hardly absolves the CIA, or the multinationalists, of incredible mayhem through the post-war era and continuing to this day. As James DiEugenio has pointed out, six million died in SE Asia after LBJ-Nixon, a bona fide holocaust, and for what? To read about Operation Phoenix, aka the Phoenix Program, is to be depressed for days, and that is if you are callous. Then My Lai, Agent Orange, hundreds of millions of cluster bombs in Laos and...well, too much to contemplate. And after the JFK assassination, the CIA did all that it could to deceive investigators and the public. It may be some people were murdered, including Eladio Del Valle or Dorothy Kilgallen. Truman was right about the CIA, and so was JFK. And as Chuck Schumer said---- New Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump is “being really dumb” by taking on the intelligence community and its assessments on Russia’s cyber activities. “Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. “So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he’s being really dumb to do this.” The beat goes on....

That is my rough understanding. But the CIA wanted the Bay of Pigs invasion to be a success. They were not (wittingly) running a suicide mission, or setting up their own assets to be patsies. Again, I am a bit sideways to the idea that the CIA set up one of its own loyal assets to be a patsy in the assassination of the President. Now, they might, with LOH cooperation, set him up as a patsy in a false-flag failed assassination attempt, and then grant Oswald a safe house, new identity somewhere...

According to Larry Hancock, the author of Someone Would Have Talked, just before his death Phillips told Kevin Walsh, an investigator with the House Select Committee on Assassinations: "My final take on the assassination is there was a conspiracy, likely including American intelligence officers." (Some books wrongly quote Phillips as saying: "My private opinion is that JFK was done in by a conspiracy, likely including rogue American intelligence people.") David Atlee Phillips died of cancer on 7th July, 1988. He left behind an unpublished manuscript. The novel is about a CIA officer who lived in Mexico City. In the novel the character states: "I was one of those officers who handled Lee Harvey Oswald... We gave him the mission of killing Fidel Castro in Cuba... I don't know why he killed Kennedy. But I do know he used precisely the plan we had devised against Castro. Thus the CIA did not anticipate the president's assassination, but it was responsible for it. I share that guilt."

"On the otherhand, Eladio del Valle and Herminio Diaz Garcia were both in Dallas on 11/20." Do you have source on this? And Nov. 20 but not 22?

Ron--Thanks for your comments. Well, the whole Tippit murder-Texas Theater fandango is yet another jigsaw puzzle of misfitting pieces. It is informative that the arresting officer said to LOH, "Shoot, the President will you?" So they thought they were hunting the President's killer, not Tippit's murderer.

Thanks for your comments. "Expendable" perhaps, though I would ask if we have any other examples of the CIA setting up their own assets to be framed for murder, let alone murder of a state leader. Most intel-military organizations are very "tight." Protect your own first, is the code. And should Oswald live and "sing" afterwards....hell to pay! Well, half-baked plans do get hatched, and no one said the CIA is perfect. But framing your own asset in a bona-fide murder plot of a President...well, stretches credulity. The JFKA has all the elements of something planned, but something gone awry....

Yes, I agree. I conjecture Oswald figured out he was the patsy almost immediately, and did not get into a CIA-provided escape car. Lacking any options, he took a bus, then taxi, and got his gun.

There was also the option of just media-smearing JFK into oblivion. His love affairs, and made-up corruption charges etc. I am NOT (NOT!) comparing Trump to JFK, but what the globalist-intel guys did to Trump is worth noting....

Thanks Paul, for your comments.

Chris---Some say LOH could have still been framed even if he was on the Elm Street waving at the President, as the CIA had the Mannlicher-Carcano-Mauser rifle planted. So, the plan was to arrest Oswald, and ask him about the rifle, LOH says he knows nothing, and LOH spends his life in prison (same deal with Sirhan Sirhan). But that gets back to, "Why frame a loyal asset like Oswald?" Framing your own assets into a presidential assassination...not a good idea. Sirhan is the right kind of patsy. In general, I am iffy on more-complicated plots involving multiple teams and many moving parts, before the event. I see David Phillips putting LOH up to a long-planned, false-flag but unsuccessful JFK assassination, and then a couple CIA assets, probably Cubans, piggybacking on the operation. Phillips wrote a near-confessional novel in this regard. Well, speculation...if it were not for the horrendous gravity of the act, the JFKA would be the greatest detective novel ever written....

Thanks for your comment. The intel-military-globalists may be going for a "twofer" with this one. It muddies the JFKA again, and then dirties Russia again. My own view is Putin is a thug....but Beijing is unabashedly run by Xi Jinping and the CCP, and about 100 times an influential as Russia, which is saddled with its one-trick pony economy (oil). But Russia is everywhere....and China not a polite topic of discussion. The globalists do business in China.