Mervyn Hagger

Listen to Larry. Look at the actual document. Note the fake number.

He didn't have to. The Kennedys did it for him.

Leslie I can't keep repeating what I have already stated.

No, what Douglas is advancing and Larry is disagreeing with (and I agree with Larry), is that evidence that is not kosher is just accepted as the basis for further discussion. No court, no scientist and no auctioneer of fine art would every go along with that idea. Two issues seem to have become entangled: one is a fake document promoted by Douglas, and two is the lack of proof to show that LHO was a lone gunman who killed JFK. It does not matter if the fake document supports the second issue, the document is still fake but it clouds the real issue which is the second proposition concerning LHO.

Leslie, the thread I am following was begun by Gary Murr and Larry Hancock via a friend of mine in Norway who has a large collection of material about the mv Olga Patricia. Using as a guide Occam's Razor, it seems to me that RFK dug the grave of his brother by taking on Marcello, and Marcello used the opportunity to kill JFK to get rid of RFK and anyone like him. It was the denial of involvement by JFK that created a lie later put into print after the fact by the New York Times that JFK had turned on the entire CIA. He had not. He had spun off a chunk of it operating in South Miami and under the control of the Special Group (Augmented) which referred to the management hand of RFK. This is where the Olga Patricia comes into play via Manuel Artime Buesa as a 'mother ship' for continuing raids on Cuba. Fidel knew all about this and it seems obvious that so did Marcello, since the CIA had turned to the Mafia for help with assassinating Fidel. After the murder of JFK the CIA quickly got rid of the Mi Amigo and then the Olga Patricia. Don Pierson of Eastland, Texas had control of the OP until 1968 when he tangled with Papa Doc in Haiti where he followed in the same path ad De Mohrenschildt and Clint Murchison. There was a plan afoot to use Haiti as a base to attack Cuba. But everything went haywire. After the OP got back into expat Cuban hands, it started raiding Cuba again and Fidel denounced it as a CIA ship over Radio Havana. In retaliation Fidel started attacking other ships tied to US interests. The US State Department then stepped in and seized and sold the ship to a fishing fleet. We are now well into the 1970s. The misinformation and misdirection got wilder and wilder and in the end the JFK murder mystery was buried. Marcello did not have to do a thing. No US President could begin to tell the American people the whole truth, and that is why documents are still classified. Uncle Sam is a sham when it comes to diplomacy and international relations, and its teacher was Winston Churchill. Even the entire Trump mess began in London using the same sort of tactics that the British have always used. Marcello did not have to lift a finger. Uncle Sam has dug a pit and climbed into it. That is where Occam's Razor comes into play. The scenario is very basic and very simple but in order to create the nonsense that the shots to kill JFK were fired by LHO from the rear, even the Daily Herald of November 23, 1963 could not make sense of the dispatches from Dallas - so in their reports JFK had just left the overpass and was approaching the SBD! This is where the question of whether JFK was shot from behind or from the front comes into play. If we begin with a closer look at the SGA, the ships and then Marcello, a totally different kind of story emerges in two versions: one is true and one is false and so far, the false narrative still dominates the discussion.

That is not how courts of law admit evidence, nor is it how classical paintings are accepted as genuine, nor how science accepts claimed discoveries as genuine. According to your suggested way of thinking ,if I wish to claim that Joe Biden is God Almighty, then why should anyone dispute my claim, even if Joe Biden says that he is not God Almighty? According to Larry Hancock, the document is a fake because it has a fake reference number and because no reputable source has certified that it is genuine. Furthermore, if it was genuine, not only David Von Pein would run from here as fast as he could, but every news agency and news channel would be discussing the document twenty-four hours a day and Congress would be involved in a Special Session trying to determine what both the domestic and international ramifications of this knowledge are. The stock market would immediately crash and a lot of vaunted people would be contemplating whether life was worth living.

Just because a myth appeared in a book years ago, does not turn it into a fact. There are many examples of this kind reporting and they even make it on to Wikipedia. When someone comes along and removes it from Wikipedia, a died in the wool true believer comes along and restores it. The ideas of David Von Pein are a classic example. He will not even consider the idea that the two main Kennedy brothers were frauds (which they were.) There is an old saying: "convince a man against his will, he is of the same opinion still." That's why so many cults and offshoot varieties of religions exist today. You can't destroy a religion and the Kennedy Myth has all the markings of a true religion, but then so do all of the believers who think that there was some massive conspiracy to murder Kennedy. There was a man with a very person grudge who had a lot of money and a lot of power, and there were a lot of people who never told the truth for a variety of reasons, and they included the Kennedy brothers.

The answer to the riddle is in the trap that the Kennedys created by circumstance and in secrecy. The story becomes convoluted as with a person found in a court room to be telling less than the truth, or even a total fabrication of events, which in this instance carried the threat of nuclear war, if at that time the real story had been revealed. So it was not Marcello who had to cover-up anything, the Establishment did that for him. By the 'Establishment', I mean that alphabet soup in all of its many forms. It began to mislead and misdirect the American People and the world at large, to such an extent that its tangled web of deceit became so big that the less likely it was that anyone could ever reveal the extent to which Uncle Sam had become a sham. I am sure that several Presidents have thought that it would be a simple matter to finally 'tell all', only to discover that you can't tell a little bit of truth without revealing the whole truth, and to do that would mean the world turning its back on anything that the USA ever promised anyone in the future. We see this playing out now in the aftermath of a string of recent wars, all based upon deceit and misinformation. Marcello saw the opportunity and he seized it. He could not lose, and so far, he has not lost.

I don't argue. I am here to see what I can learn since two people (Murr and Hancock) opened a door to my discovery of questions to answers that I did not know existed. If I contribute something to this Forum, that's fine. However, some members of this Forum like David Von Pein who have preset and fixed ideas, will disagree with my statement, and that's also fine by me.

Well, I guess your convoluted thoughts are incorrect.

Yes!

Larry, you wrote: "The only country with a foreign intelligence service to historically have been nearly as effective as the Russians were the British possibly because they have an equally long history at such things." That is an understatement. Everything began with SyOps in the United Kingdom, and the doyen of it all was Winston Churchill, a one time head of the Royal Navy, and Member of Parliament for Dundee in Scotland. He is the originator of the push to blame the overthrow of the Russian monarchy on "bad Jews" which he packaged into a 1920 full page promotion of what is today referred to as the 'Illuminati' conspiracy. From Churchill we got terrorism as we know it packaged as SOE, and SAS and OSS and CIA. From Churchill we got electronic misinformation on a massive scale via Sefton Delmer. From Churchill in WWII we got Texas involvement in UK oil exploration that led to the North Sea gas and oil boom. From Churchill we got the overthrow of the government of Iran in a bid to grab its oil. The source of obscuration of all this was the so-called 'BBC' (which was two operations and not one, leading to the false claim last year that it was now 100 years old. It was 95 years old.) The key to unlocking all of this is British Naval Intelligence and Churchill switching from a coal-powered Royal Navy to an oil-powered Royal Navy. That is why following the links provided by you and Gary Murr regarding the mv Olga Patricia we have been able to trace a new and hitherto unreported and uninvestigated history of electronic misinformation and military operations. It includes the establishment of the US Polaris nuclear submarine floating base at Holy Loch in Scotland, and the man who inherited a war-mongering operation that almost destroyed the world in an atomic World War III. That was none other than John F. Kennedy with his own 'patsy', his brother Robert. Or was it the other way around? Was Robert running the SGA which was in turn controlling the misinformation spewing from the mouth of his brother the President? 'Deep Throat' is alleged to have said "follow the money." But the key is really in following a ship, and it was thanks to Gary Murr and yourself ('Secret Warriors') that we eventually began to do just that. Suddenly a different story about the years from 1959 to 1963 began to emerge. By the way. We took your publishing advice and yesterday we completed a three-book contract with Amazon.

Joe this is why the Abilene to Haiti story takes on significance. There is a ton of material available and none of it has been spliced into the JFK murder discussion.

Don Pierson was the founder and President of the Abilene National Bank. He was also the Mayor of Eastland, Texas. His UK radio business was built upon advice from Gordon McLendon. Pierson, Murchison and De Mohrenschildt all had dealings with Papa Doc of Haiti. The spin-off CIA in South Miami had plans involving expat Cubans in Florida, and their attempts to overthrow Fidel Castro. Pierson had dealings with the bank in Miami used by Manuel Artime Buesa concerning the CIA purchase of the mv Olga Patricia (bought as a CIA 'mother ship'), and that same ship was used by Pierson in Europe, came back to Florida and began attacking Cuba, again. Does anyone have more information about the Abilene Country Club and links to any of these people and events?

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things: Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax— Of cabbages—and kings— And why the sea is boiling hot— And whether pigs have wings." Well Roger Waters of Pink Floyd fame is still promoting images of pigs with wings flying over Battersea, and shoes, cabbages and even kings are discussed in various quarters, but sealing wax seems to have fallen out of favor. But what about ships? Now the story of certain ships is essential to understanding the story of Robert F. Kennedy and the Special Group (Augmented), which David Von Pein originally said he had never heard of, and what is more, he didn't want to know. But in 'Shadow Warrior' by Larry Hancock there is an important reference to Manuel Artime Buesa, who had a company called BAM, and the CIA, or rather the SGA bought a vessel called 'Olga Patricia' as his 'mother ship'. Then .... nothing. There is no mention on this Forum about that vessel in conjunction with the SGA, and yet it is a key to unlocking the JFK assassination mystery. Why the deafening silence from contributors here?

Described as a planted work of misinformation back in 1968 by an author who did not exist as a person, this kitchen-sink jumble sale of misinformation is being regurgitated over and over and over again with new titles on the same old threads, and all of them miss the point.This is the book that was originally published in France and became a best-seller in Europe after it was translated into eleven languages. It was stifled in the USA but eventually appeared under the title of 'Farewell America'. Today it is available to read free of charge on line. "Borrowing heavily from published critics of the Warren Commission Report, the book describes the roots of the Cold War, the linkage between large corporate and banking interests, the ever-growing American intelligence apparatus, and the international petroleum cartels that were lined up with a bevy of military brass and Mafia chieftains against President Kennedy." What is missing from this work is any reference to Occam's Razor and the notion that "the simplest explanation is preferable to one that is more complex." In crime-solving terms that means looking for the obvious suspect which in this instance is a Mafia Boss in New Orleans. He had the motive, the money and the power to order the murder of John F. Kennedy on November 11, 1963, and the deceit of John and his brother Robert trapped them into a tangled web of misdirection of their own making. Then everyone piled on top since the official version of the story was so silly to begin with, but its complex and ridiculous alternative answer offered so much more entertainment value to writers and motion picture scriptwriters. Meanwhile the real story, which is very simple and very clear-cut, goes unnoticed while 'Farewell America' is recycled over and over and over again. As Sonny and Cher once sang: 'The Beat Goes on'.

The biggest flaw in this entire discussion put forward by Douglas, is that it was forward by Douglas and that he did so only a few hours ago after seeing something on Facebook. If there was any merit to any of Douglas' speculative claims it would be wall-to-wall coverage on TV news channels around the world and demands would be ringing out loud and clear from DC for an emergency hearing into this matter. But this document did not first appear hours ago, it appeared years ago. It was debunked back then when someone noticed that the numerals on the document had been lifted from a genuine document unrelated to this forgery. Larry Hancock put this issue back in the rubbish bin where it belongs. It is time for Douglas to say "Oops!"

And as we all continue to ignore the silly rantings of one David Pein he tries to switch topics by presenting another old JFK video of the two-faced politician who used nepotism to almost trigger a nuclear World War III. Does David think that everyone has been brainwashed?

Tom, the answer is no.

Matthew, it seems that your spelling tells me that you are not on the same wavelength, because what you have stated in brief is not at all what I stated.

The thread asks a question. Unlike others I hold the Kennedys to be the opposite of what they seemed to be. So my response to my own question as well as the additional question by David G. Healy is: no nuclear war with the USSR. (I modified my original comment by expanding it. When I first began typing I was interrupted and so the original cryptic response appeared.)😁

But according to Larry Hancock even the title of this thread is incorrect and totally misleading. It is not about Facebook but whether the document is a fake.

That is an absurd response because it has nothing to do with the issue at hand which is not the workings of Facebook but according to Larry Hancock, the fact that you are promoting a fake document as a true document of fact. I did follow your leads and waffle was there - but NO document. You even redirected from your first link and still NO document, only waffle. What is the original source of the document? I am not interested in the waffle. Larry responded to the claim that the document was true and he claims that it is an old fake that keeps returning to snare more people. I respect Larry's opinion and I would like you to produce verification that this is a real document and not a fake.

I followed all of the links and got nowhere. Even the Memo writer appears to be totally obscure and disappeared about two years ago. I honestly don't know, but in this area I do respect what Larry Hancock has to say. Therefore unless you can implode Larry's verdict it does appear to be a hoax that should be removed as a thread. But your move. My advice: Ask Larry what you should do.