Bill Brown

Oswald arrives at the rooming house at 12:58 and is back in his room "just long enough to grab a jacket", per Earlene Roberts' testimony. Therefore, he's out the door by 12:59 to 1:00.

My point is obvious. Since Markham never mentioned a 1:12 bus or a 1:22 bus, then no one has the right to claim which bus it was that Markham was trying to catch. Get it now?

It is my opinion that she did not leave her apartment at 1:04. The time stamps on the police tapes support my opinion.

Your entire point is moot if she was trying to catch the 1:22 bus. She never says anything about a 1:12 bus.

The bus stop in question was one block south of Tenth & Patton at Jefferson & Patton.

"The library [destination A] was the planned Oswald rubout site. By detouring to the TT [destination B] the patsy delayed his doom." All of the witnesses who watched Oswald state that he turned west onto Jefferson upon reaching the corner of Patton & Jefferson; nothing about momentarily heading east toward the library. "He proceeded to run toward Jefferson, through this front yard right here (pointing to front yard at NW corner of Patton and Jefferson) and proceeded west on Jefferson." -- Ted Callaway (1986 London trial) "OK; our office is up high where I can have a pretty good view of what was going on. I heard the shots and, when I heard the shots, I went out on this front porch which is, like I say, high, and I saw this man coming down the street with the gun in his hand, swinging it just like he was running. He turned the corner of Patton and Jefferson, going west, and put the gun in his pants and took off, walking." -- Warren Reynolds (Warren Commission testimony) "...a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line. Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, the individual stopped running and began walking at a fast pace, heading west on Jefferson." -- 1/22/64 FBI report of interview with Harold Russell "When the individual reached the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, he placed the weapon inside his waistband and began walking west on the north side of Jefferson Street." -- 1/22/64 FBI report of interview with Pat Patterson "Approximately one minute later he observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hands, and while running was either attempting to reload same or conceal the weapon in his belt line. Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, the individual then proceeded west on Jefferson..." -- 1/22/64 FBI report of interview with L.J. Lewis

Obviously if the shooting occurred at 1:14/1:15, then the 1:12 bus schedule to stop over one block away is meaningless.

"If you only live just a few minutes walk away from the bus stop, why do you want to leave at 1:04PM - walk 6 minutes and be 12 minutes early for your 1:22PM bus?" And there lies the point. Perhaps she was intending on arriving at the bus stop at 1:15 (which is the ONLY time she ever gives for anything related to the bus and/or bus stop). This would be perfectly reasonable in order to catch the 1:22 bus. My opinion is that she did not leave her apartment at 1:04. The police tapes support my opinion.

"Oswald, after crossing East Jefferson in front of the ambulance and heading toward the library, stopped and went somewhere else by means which can only be surmised." No. All of the witnesses who watched Oswald state that he turned west onto Jefferson upon reaching the corner of Patton & Jefferson; nothing about momentarily heading east toward the library. "He proceeded to run toward Jefferson, through this front yard right here (pointing to front yard at NW corner of Patton and Jefferson) and proceeded west on Jefferson." -- Ted Callaway (1986 London trial) "OK; our office is up high where I can have a pretty good view of what was going on. I heard the shots and, when I heard the shots, I went out on this front porch which is, like I say, high, and I saw this man coming down the street with the gun in his hand, swinging it just like he was running. He turned the corner of Patton and Jefferson, going west, and put the gun in his pants and took off, walking." -- Warren Reynolds (Warren Commission testimony) "...a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line. Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, the individual stopped running and began walking at a fast pace, heading west on Jefferson." -- 1/22/64 FBI report of interview with Harold Russell "When the individual reached the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, he placed the weapon inside his waistband and began walking west on the north side of Jefferson Street." -- 1/22/64 FBI report of interview with Pat Patterson "Approximately one minute later he observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hands, and while running was either attempting to reload same or conceal the weapon in his belt line. Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, the individual then proceeded west on Jefferson..." -- 1/22/64 FBI report of interview with L.J. Lewis

The problem here is that the police tapes basically tell you what time it was that Tippit was shot and it was nowhere near Markham's estimate. For example... Ted Callaway testified that after hearing the five gun shots, he ran out to the sidewalk on Patton. This was a little over a half block south of the shooting scene. Callaway saw a man (who he later identified as Oswald) cutting across Patton as he (Oswald) made his way south on Patton (towards Callaway's position). Callaway hollered out to the man as the man continued south on Patton past Callaway's position. Callaway testified that the man was running and holding a gun. Callaway saw the man head west on Jefferson (the same direction as the theater). Once the man turned west onto Jefferson, Callaway ran a "good hard run" up to the corner of Tenth and Patton. Callaway, noticing the stopped patrol car, went to the car and saw the officer (Tippit) lying dead in the street. Callaway said the first thing he did was to grab the police car radio and report the shooting. He said he didn't know if anyone had reported it yet, so he decided to report it himself. To recap, Callaway hears the shots. Runs to the sidewalk. Sees the gunman run south on Patton the entire block from Tenth to Jefferson. Runs the two-thirds of a block up to the shooting scene. Goes over to the police car and the first thing he does is grab the radio and report the shooting to the police dispatcher. How much time do you believe passed from the time Callaway heard the shots to the time he reported the shooting on the police radio? Let's say two minutes pass from the time Oswald shoots Tippit to the time Oswald turns the corner from Patton onto Jefferson. This is a little over one block and Oswald was running. Let's say it takes Callaway one minute when he made the "good hard run" the two-thirds of a block from his location to the patrol car. If these two time estimates are anywhere close to being correct, then Callaway is at the patrol car roughly three minutes after the shots rang out. Let's add another full minute for error. So we have Callaway at the patrol car using the police radio about four minutes after the shots rang out. Here's the thing... Callaway's report to the dispatcher while using the patrol car radio took place at 1:19/1:20. Do the math and work it backwards. At 1:19/1:20, Callaway makes the call. If four minutes have passed (and that's being generous, in my opinion) since the shots rang out, then the shots rang out around 1:15.

There was no 1:15 bus; only 1:12, 1:22 and about every ten minutes thereafter. For anyone to pretend to know for a fact which bus Markham was trying to catch (1:12 or 1:22) just shows that they truly don't know anything at all.

Dale Myers: "One example is found in the Tippit case. Some argue that Helen Markham wasn’t a reliable witness – that she was wrong about the time that Tippit was shot, that her description of the shooter didn’t match Oswald exactly, or that her identification of Oswald at the line-up was made after she had been administered smelling salts. But can one believably and logically dismissed other witnesses who didn’t see the shooting, as Markham did, but identified Oswald as the man they saw fleeing the scene? Especially given the fact that we know for certain that the man that others saw fleeing the scene was the same person that Markham saw shoot Officer Tippit? After all, Markham saw the gunman running toward the corner of Tenth and Patton immediately after the shooting. Cab driver William W. Scoggins saw the same man coming toward him, cross the lawn of the corner house (where Barbara J. and Virginia R. Davis stood watching the same man), jump through the bushes and flee south on Patton. Used car manager Ted Callaway saw the same man as he leapt through the bushes, run past Scoggins, and cross Patton Street. As the gunman passed Callaway, and used car porter Sam Guinyard, four men – Warren Reynolds, B.M. Patterson, L.J. Lewis and Harold Russell – saw the same man trotting toward them. The gunman hesitated briefly at the corner of Patton and Jefferson Boulevard, then turned west toward Crawford. Two of the men – Reynolds and Patterson – followed the same man until he slipped behind two used furniture stores next to a convenience store adjacent to the Texaco service station at Crawford and Jefferson." https://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2023/11/

I see you finally decided to actually watch the Bowers interview with Lane. Now, do you still believe that Bowers ever had a finger cut off?

"So, Bowers couldn't possibly have suffered a finger injury after this Mark Lane interview, Bill?" After? The Kook theory goes that Bowers was kidnapped, threatened and had a finger cut off during the winter of '63/'64. Bowers was filmed for Rush To Judgement in 1966. Also, Bowers died in 1966. How much of a window was there between his filmed interview with Lane and the time of his death? I suppose you're insinuating that the conspirators/kidnappers took him away, threatened him, cut off his finger and released him only to finally decide to kill him the following week or month? Maybe you need to catch up. "Also, why are you referencing a debunked JFKA source like Posner-- a man whose work has no credibility?" I haven't referenced Posner at all, ever. "Can you, at least, acknowledge that Bowers was threatened prior to his untimely death?" I don't know that Bowers was ever threatened and neither do you.

Wrong decade.

Have you ever seen the film version of Rush To Judgement? If so, then you should know that Bowers is filmed sitting at a table with Mark Lane. In the filmed interview, Lane asks Bowers how many shots he heard. Bowers says he heard three shots. Lane then asks Bowers to replicate the spacing of the shots. Bowers, with one hand clearly visible resting atop the table (all five fingers intact) knocks on the tabletop with his other hand (also with all five fingers intact). I'm sorry but some of you guys just aren't using your head.

No. We do know for sure that Bowers did not have a finger cut off by kidnappers.

Does anyone reading through this thread really believe Lee Bowers was missing a finger? As in Bowers was kidnapped, threatened and had a finger cut off before being released by his kidnappers?

Regarding the death of Lee Bowers, many of you are (for whatever reason) ignoring the words of ambulance driver Noel Coward, who said Bowers was unresponsive and unable to talk and was dead at the scene. The death certificate stated that Bowers died from "multiple head and internal injuries" and that the time of death in relation to these injuries was "instant". Dr. Roy Bohl was the attending physician at Waxahachie Hospital when Bowers arrived in an ambulance. Dr. Bohl refuted any notion that Bowers was in a "strange state of shock", per Penn Jones' allegation. It seems many of you would prefer a nice juicy conspiracy at every turn instead of simply taking in the facts and forming the only reasonable conclusion.

Yes but I was working under the assumption that if they were on their knees, they were leaning a bit forward.

Look. The bottom line is he said the bullets didn't match the shells. He said nothing about manufacturer. There is no scientific method which can link spent bullets to spent shell casings. Perhaps he should have been more clear and less lazy.

I haven't seen the footage you're referring to. Those who were shot in the head, were they on their knees? If so, of course they're going to fall forward, regardless of where they were shot from.

Whaley says he "turned left, to the 500 block of North Beckley", i.e. he turned left with the intention of going to the 500 block of North Beckley (which is the destination given by his passenger). From the viaduct, one cannot turn left at the 500 block of North Beckley.

"I agree that the discrepancy is well resolved on the assumption of a 5th bullet fired which missed Tippit (3 Winchesters and 2 Remingtons fired). But at least be accurate in responding to what Gil meant." I'll respond to what members actually say, not what they may have meant.

But please don't attempt to publish anything related to a bullet's transfer of energy upon striking it's target. No bullet striking the head from the right front would cause the violent back and to the left motion. You're confusing bullets with baseball bats.