Alternative SBT theory

[Chris Davidson]

\

Yeah, guess my comment seemed a little out of context. I was really aiming at the notion that somehow a bullet passed through JFK and struck Connolly. The autopsy witnesses, Drs. and medical assisstants, who saw the "sound" or probe inserted into the back wound of JFK, said that wound was shallow and did not pierce the Pleural linning around the lungs. Which means that the bullet that caused that wound, did not transit the body.

Got it - not in any way saying that there was anything to the lies sold by FBI snitch Ford or Senator Specter. The man needs to retract his bs and apologize.

Here's a gif - should demonstrate the back wound - from the size of it, seems hard to call it an entry wound. Connally completely rolls over following 313. This isn't what I wanted - it's what I had already made.

- lee

Personally, I would not despair!

Especially considering that you are closer to being correct, than to being incorrect.

There was an "SBT" and it was also the one and only true "MAGIC BULLET".

In that not only did the bullet pass through JFK, but it also passed through JBC.

And, in true "Magical Style", it thereafter disappeared.

However, it/the bullet, was neither the first, nor was it the second shot at Z313.

It was in fact, the third/last/final shot, which occurred down in front of James Altgens, and after having passed through the head/mid-brain of JFK, exited to strike JFK in the right shoulder, passing through his chest on a downward angle, exiting, to thereafter penetrate the left upper leg.

So, those who have "sold" the SBT theory, did not in fact even have to be original in their thought process since there was in fact a SBT.

They merely had to be ingenious enough to thereafter make virtually all trace of this shot & bullet, become MAGIC and thereafter disappear.

Think hard on this one!

Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear.

Thomas, I take it you mean " exited to strike JBC in the right shoulder" ?

Thomas, I take it you mean " exited to strike JBC in the right shoulder" ?

Glad that someone here understands me!

The downward angle of penetration from just to the right of the scapula of JBC, entering to strike the right fifth rib and running parallel with the rib to exit under the right nipple, would appear as a cross-angle as well as a downward angle. (When JBC is sitting in the upright position)

Mostly, it is a downward angle as JBC was leaning/almost laying over across the seats with his right shoulder "up" and exposed between the jump seats.

The third round exited the frontal area of JFK's skull and thereafter struck JBC in the right shoulder, just to the right of the scapula.

It is mostly a "downward" angle of penetration through JBC, just that when he is placed back into the vertical/sittting upright position, this downward angle now becomes a combination downward as well as considerable cross-angle of penetration.

There was no tumbling of the bullet. The elongated nature of the entry wound into the back/shoulder of JBC is merely due to the natural downward angle of penetration.

In that regards, the HSCA at least made some pretty good drawings which demonstrate the "abrasion collar" and how these elongated entry wounds occur.

However, didn't Connolly claim to hear the impact of the headshot, and see its "effects" ( brain matter etc.) AFTER he was shot??

================================================================================

====

"So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, "

================================================================================

====

Connally clearly describes how the third/last/final shot blew blood and cerebral tissue all over him and the car. Which happens to be down in front of Altgens, and clearly matches Altgens description of seeing virtually the same thing.

So, since JFK was well below the level of all others when this impact occurred, wanna take a guess as to exactly where the bullet actually went after it passed through the head of JFK.

================================================================================

=====

"We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right

shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.

So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back."

================================================================================

====

First, let's talk about the first lie.

From his hospital bed, shortly after the assassination, JBC clearly stated that he turned and looked at and saw JFK.

This conversation was in a recorded radio interview, and although it has had a tendency to also become "lost" in history, it is still documented fact.

Thereafter, during his WC Testimony, JBC stated: "but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye,"

Personally, I could care less if JBC did or did not catch the President "in the corner of my eye". Originally, JBC stated he observed JFK. Later, the Z-film clearly demonstrates that he was looking directly at JFK, and if he did not see him then he must have had his eyes closed.

JBC has, for a yet undisclosed reason, lied about seeing JFK and his reactions to the first shot.

================================================================================

====

"and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back."

================================================================================

====

Does this state that he felt the impact of a bullet strike him in the back?????

JBC was struck in the wrist by a fragment from the headshot at Z313. Perhaps this made him feel if someone had hit him in the back, perhaps not! Perhaps just another "evasive" answer in that no lie was actually told.

JBC was not struck by any bullet (or fragment) until such time as the fragment from the Z313 headshot tore through his wrist at the Z313 shot. Which of course also sent the fragments forward into the windshield, etc;.

Not only that, his memory of the blood/brain splatter for the third shot is by far too vivid for him to have had already had the severe injuries to the chest, lung, and rib cage when this third shot occurred.

The pain and pathological damage from this shot, had it occurred previously, would have virtually negated JBC being that aware of the surrounding events that immediately after having received these injuries.

JBC was curled up laying across the open area of the Jump seats, with his legs pulled up into an almost fetal position, suffering from ONLY a fragment injury to the right wrist, at the time that the third/last/final shot passed through the skull of JFK and exited to strike JBC

(got it correct that time) in the right rear shoulder, just to the right of the scapula.

Hint: Reach around with your left hand (under the left armpit) and place your obscene jesture finger just to the right of the scapula/shoulder blade.

Now, with your right obscene jesture finger, place the finger on the right front chest, just below the right nipple (with the hand under the forearm/wrist of the left arm)

Now, in sitting erect, look down at this and one will find that the angle between the two points is slightly right to left and slightly downwards.

Now, maintaining the points of contact, lean over onto the left shoulder until almost horizontal, with the right shoulder rolled slightly backwards. This virtually eliminates any "cross-angle", and thereafter makes the penetration through the chest of JBC primarily a "downward angle" of entry, as well as making the elongated nature of the shoulder entry exactly match what the HSCA drew and described as the "Abrasion Collar" nature of this type entry.

Lastly, if you wish to see how the leg got into the way, draw the legs up into the complete fetal position.

Hope that answers any questions.

Tom

P.S. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc:

Hmmm, What Z frame do you put the last head shot / Connolly shoulder shot at? I am presuming you are saying there were two headshots, 313 and ? -Bill

A

[Chris Davidson]

\

Yeah, guess my comment seemed a little out of context. I was really aiming at the notion that somehow a bullet passed through JFK and struck Connolly. The autopsy witnesses, Drs. and medical assisstants, who saw the "sound" or probe inserted into the back wound of JFK, said that wound was shallow and did not pierce the Pleural linning around the lungs. Which means that the bullet that caused that wound, did not transit the body.

Got it - not in any way saying that there was anything to the lies sold by FBI snitch Ford or Senator Specter. The man needs to retract his bs and apologize.

Here's a gif - should demonstrate the back wound - from the size of it, seems hard to call it an entry wound. Connally completely rolls over following 313. This isn't what I wanted - it's what I had already made.

- lee

Personally, I would not despair!

Especially considering that you are closer to being correct, than to being incorrect.

There was an "SBT" and it was also the one and only true "MAGIC BULLET".

In that not only did the bullet pass through JFK, but it also passed through JBC.

And, in true "Magical Style", it thereafter disappeared.

However, it/the bullet, was neither the first, nor was it the second shot at Z313.

It was in fact, the third/last/final shot, which occurred down in front of James Altgens, and after having passed through the head/mid-brain of JFK, exited to strike JFK in the right shoulder, passing through his chest on a downward angle, exiting, to thereafter penetrate the left upper leg.

So, those who have "sold" the SBT theory, did not in fact even have to be original in their thought process since there was in fact a SBT.

They merely had to be ingenious enough to thereafter make virtually all trace of this shot & bullet, become MAGIC and thereafter disappear.

Think hard on this one!

Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear.

Thomas, I take it you mean " exited to strike JBC in the right shoulder" ?

Thomas, I take it you mean " exited to strike JBC in the right shoulder" ?

Glad that someone here understands me!

The downward angle of penetration from just to the right of the scapula of JBC, entering to strike the right fifth rib and running parallel with the rib to exit under the right nipple, would appear as a cross-angle as well as a downward angle. (When JBC is sitting in the upright position)

Mostly, it is a downward angle as JBC was leaning/almost laying over across the seats with his right shoulder "up" and exposed between the jump seats.

The third round exited the frontal area of JFK's skull and thereafter struck JBC in the right shoulder, just to the right of the scapula.

It is mostly a "downward" angle of penetration through JBC, just that when he is placed back into the vertical/sittting upright position, this downward angle now becomes a combination downward as well as considerable cross-angle of penetration.

There was no tumbling of the bullet. The elongated nature of the entry wound into the back/shoulder of JBC is merely due to the natural downward angle of penetration.

In that regards, the HSCA at least made some pretty good drawings which demonstrate the "abrasion collar" and how these elongated entry wounds occur.

However, didn't Connolly claim to hear the impact of the headshot, and see its "effects" ( brain matter etc.) AFTER he was shot??

================================================================================

====

"So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, "

================================================================================

====

Connally clearly describes how the third/last/final shot blew blood and cerebral tissue all over him and the car. Which happens to be down in front of Altgens, and clearly matches Altgens description of seeing virtually the same thing.

So, since JFK was well below the level of all others when this impact occurred, wanna take a guess as to exactly where the bullet actually went after it passed through the head of JFK.

================================================================================

=====

"We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right

shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.

So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back."

================================================================================

====

First, let's talk about the first lie.

From his hospital bed, shortly after the assassination, JBC clearly stated that he turned and looked at and saw JFK.

This conversation was in a recorded radio interview, and although it has had a tendency to also become "lost" in history, it is still documented fact.

Thereafter, during his WC Testimony, JBC stated: "but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye,"

Personally, I could care less if JBC did or did not catch the President "in the corner of my eye". Originally, JBC stated he observed JFK. Later, the Z-film clearly demonstrates that he was looking directly at JFK, and if he did not see him then he must have had his eyes closed.

JBC has, for a yet undisclosed reason, lied about seeing JFK and his reactions to the first shot.

================================================================================

====

"and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back."

================================================================================

====

Does this state that he felt the impact of a bullet strike him in the back?????

JBC was struck in the wrist by a fragment from the headshot at Z313. Perhaps this made him feel if someone had hit him in the back, perhaps not! Perhaps just another "evasive" answer in that no lie was actually told.

JBC was not struck by any bullet (or fragment) until such time as the fragment from the Z313 headshot tore through his wrist at the Z313 shot. Which of course also sent the fragments forward into the windshield, etc;.

Not only that, his memory of the blood/brain splatter for the third shot is by far too vivid for him to have had already had the severe injuries to the chest, lung, and rib cage when this third shot occurred.

The pain and pathological damage from this shot, had it occurred previously, would have virtually negated JBC being that aware of the surrounding events that immediately after having received these injuries.

JBC was curled up laying across the open area of the Jump seats, with his legs pulled up into an almost fetal position, suffering from ONLY a fragment injury to the right wrist, at the time that the third/last/final shot passed through the skull of JFK and exited to strike JBC

(got it correct that time) in the right rear shoulder, just to the right of the scapula.

Hint: Reach around with your left hand (under the left armpit) and place your obscene jesture finger just to the right of the scapula/shoulder blade.

Now, with your right obscene jesture finger, place the finger on the right front chest, just below the right nipple (with the hand under the forearm/wrist of the left arm)

Now, in sitting erect, look down at this and one will find that the angle between the two points is slightly right to left and slightly downwards.

Now, maintaining the points of contact, lean over onto the left shoulder until almost horizontal, with the right shoulder rolled slightly backwards. This virtually eliminates any "cross-angle", and thereafter makes the penetration through the chest of JBC primarily a "downward angle" of entry, as well as making the elongated nature of the shoulder entry exactly match what the HSCA drew and described as the "Abrasion Collar" nature of this type entry.

Lastly, if you wish to see how the leg got into the way, draw the legs up into the complete fetal position.

Hope that answers any questions.

Tom

P.S. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc:

Hmmm, What Z frame do you put the last head shot / Connolly shoulder shot at? I am presuming you are saying there were two headshots, 313 and ? -Bill

The audio is from JBC's video interview at his hospital bed. The video is too large to post, so a picture for now.

Not sure if the gentleman who speaks afterwards is his doctor or spokesman, but listen carefully to him, also.

"Turned to my left and saw the president slump". What movie is that???

thanks Tom

chris

P.S.

Maybe Connally saw the Zfilm after his hospital stay and changed a few facts thereafter.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Maybe Connally saw the Zfilm after his hospital stay and changed a few facts thereafter.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm

Governor CONNALLY. I had seen what purported to be a copy of the film when I was in the hospital in Dallas. I had not seen the slides.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm, What Z frame do you put the last head shot / Connolly shoulder shot at? I am presuming you are saying there were two headshots, 313 and ? -Bill

The headshot to JFK at Z313 is that shot which struck in the "Cowlick" area of the skull (in fact had it have been approximately 1-inch (+) higher, it would have most likely been a miss) and which severely fragmented due primarily to the manner in which it initially began to exit the skull.

This is the shot which sent the fragment to the right wrist of JBC.

The headshot at stationing 4+95 is that shot which struck JFK at the edge of the hairline of the neck and thereafter tunnelled "up"

(which was actually tunnelling downward due to the position of JFK's neck and skull) through the soft flesh of the neck, ultimately striking the skull in the vicinity of the EOP and thereafter causing the elongated entry wound through the skull.

This wound is represented by the arrow which Dr. Boswell drew on the autopsy sheet which demonstrates an "upwards" and slanting left direction (as the neck and head are erect).

I would also add that this is also the shot which caused the second penetration through the coat worn by JFK, which penetration is located just at the edge of the collar of the coat and which penetration goes through the outer fabric, as well as the inner liner, on a considerable tangent.

It is also that bullet which after having exited the skull of JFK in the frontal lobe of the brain, struck JBC in the right shoulder, just to the right of the shoulder blade and thereafter passed DOWNWARDS through his chest to exit the chest and ultimately strike the left leg.

The bullet has thereafter disappeared (almost), and it is not only the real/true SBT, but it is also, almost "MAGIC".

Tom

Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holland.htm

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, it was pretty loud, and naturally, underneath this underpass here it would be a little louder, the concussion from underneath it, it was a pretty loud report, and the car traveled a few yards, and Governor Connally turned in this fashion, like that [indicating] with his hand out, and another report.

Mr. STERN - With his right hand out?

Mr. HOLLAND - Turning to his right.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z312.jpg

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/gregory1.htm

Dr. GREGORY - My initial impression was that whatever produced the wound of the wrist was an irregular object, certainly not smooth nosed as the business end of this particular bullet is because of two things. The size of the wound of entrance, and the fact that it is irregular surfaced permitted it to pick up organic debris, materials, threads, and carry them into the wound with it.

Dr. GREGORY - There is one additional piece of information that is of pertinence but I don't know how effectively it can be applied to the nature of the missile. That is the fact that dorsal branch of the radial nerve, a sensory nerve in this immediate vicinity was partially transected together with one tendon leading to the thumb, which was totally transected.

This could have been produced by a missile entering in the ordinary fashion, undisturbed, undistorted. But again it is more in keeping with an irregular surface which would tend to catch and tear a structure rather than push it aside.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For a quick comparison:

1. The bullet which entered the back of JFK carried with it, down into the wound of entry, fabric from the coat and shirt.

A highly unusual occurance. An almost un-heard of occurance for a full velocity projectile/bullet.

2. The bullet which struck JBC in the back, carried no fabric from the coat and shirt of JBC down into the wound of entry.

Quite normal for a bullet which may have lost little of it's velocity.

3. The "irregular" nature of the missile which struck JBC in the wrist, cut and tore the fabric of his coat and shirt sleeve, carried fabric from this clothing down into the wound of entry as it cut and tore through the various nerves and muscles of the wrist.

And, it in fact had a larger entrance wound than it did an exit wound.

4. The missile/bullet which struck JBC in the right leg, carried no fabric from his pants down into the wound of entry.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

\

Yeah, guess my comment seemed a little out of context. I was really aiming at the notion that somehow a bullet passed through JFK and struck Connolly. The autopsy witnesses, Drs. and medical assisstants, who saw the "sound" or probe inserted into the back wound of JFK, said that wound was shallow and did not pierce the Pleural linning around the lungs. Which means that the bullet that caused that wound, did not transit the body.

Got it - not in any way saying that there was anything to the lies sold by FBI snitch Ford or Senator Specter. The man needs to retract his bs and apologize.

Here's a gif - should demonstrate the back wound - from the size of it, seems hard to call it an entry wound. Connally completely rolls over following 313. This isn't what I wanted - it's what I had already made.

- lee

Personally, I would not despair!

Especially considering that you are closer to being correct, than to being incorrect.

There was an "SBT" and it was also the one and only true "MAGIC BULLET".

In that not only did the bullet pass through JFK, but it also passed through JBC.

And, in true "Magical Style", it thereafter disappeared.

However, it/the bullet, was neither the first, nor was it the second shot at Z313.

It was in fact, the third/last/final shot, which occurred down in front of James Altgens, and after having passed through the head/mid-brain of JFK, exited to strike JFK in the right shoulder, passing through his chest on a downward angle, exiting, to thereafter penetrate the left upper leg.

So, those who have "sold" the SBT theory, did not in fact even have to be original in their thought process since there was in fact a SBT.

They merely had to be ingenious enough to thereafter make virtually all trace of this shot & bullet, become MAGIC and thereafter disappear.

Think hard on this one!

Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear.

Thomas, I take it you mean " exited to strike JBC in the right shoulder" ?

Thomas, I take it you mean " exited to strike JBC in the right shoulder" ?

Glad that someone here understands me!

The downward angle of penetration from just to the right of the scapula of JBC, entering to strike the right fifth rib and running parallel with the rib to exit under the right nipple, would appear as a cross-angle as well as a downward angle. (When JBC is sitting in the upright position)

Mostly, it is a downward angle as JBC was leaning/almost laying over across the seats with his right shoulder "up" and exposed between the jump seats.

The third round exited the frontal area of JFK's skull and thereafter struck JBC in the right shoulder, just to the right of the scapula.

It is mostly a "downward" angle of penetration through JBC, just that when he is placed back into the vertical/sittting upright position, this downward angle now becomes a combination downward as well as considerable cross-angle of penetration.

There was no tumbling of the bullet. The elongated nature of the entry wound into the back/shoulder of JBC is merely due to the natural downward angle of penetration.

In that regards, the HSCA at least made some pretty good drawings which demonstrate the "abrasion collar" and how these elongated entry wounds occur.

However, didn't Connolly claim to hear the impact of the headshot, and see its "effects" ( brain matter etc.) AFTER he was shot??

================================================================================

====

"So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, "

================================================================================

====

Connally clearly describes how the third/last/final shot blew blood and cerebral tissue all over him and the car. Which happens to be down in front of Altgens, and clearly matches Altgens description of seeing virtually the same thing.

So, since JFK was well below the level of all others when this impact occurred, wanna take a guess as to exactly where the bullet actually went after it passed through the head of JFK.

================================================================================

=====

"We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right

shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.

So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back."

================================================================================

====

First, let's talk about the first lie.

From his hospital bed, shortly after the assassination, JBC clearly stated that he turned and looked at and saw JFK.

This conversation was in a recorded radio interview, and although it has had a tendency to also become "lost" in history, it is still documented fact.

Thereafter, during his WC Testimony, JBC stated: "but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye,"

Personally, I could care less if JBC did or did not catch the President "in the corner of my eye". Originally, JBC stated he observed JFK. Later, the Z-film clearly demonstrates that he was looking directly at JFK, and if he did not see him then he must have had his eyes closed.

JBC has, for a yet undisclosed reason, lied about seeing JFK and his reactions to the first shot.

================================================================================

====

"and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back."

================================================================================

====

Does this state that he felt the impact of a bullet strike him in the back?????

JBC was struck in the wrist by a fragment from the headshot at Z313. Perhaps this made him feel if someone had hit him in the back, perhaps not! Perhaps just another "evasive" answer in that no lie was actually told.

JBC was not struck by any bullet (or fragment) until such time as the fragment from the Z313 headshot tore through his wrist at the Z313 shot. Which of course also sent the fragments forward into the windshield, etc;.

Not only that, his memory of the blood/brain splatter for the third shot is by far too vivid for him to have had already had the severe injuries to the chest, lung, and rib cage when this third shot occurred.

The pain and pathological damage from this shot, had it occurred previously, would have virtually negated JBC being that aware of the surrounding events that immediately after having received these injuries.

JBC was curled up laying across the open area of the Jump seats, with his legs pulled up into an almost fetal position, suffering from ONLY a fragment injury to the right wrist, at the time that the third/last/final shot passed through the skull of JFK and exited to strike JBC

(got it correct that time) in the right rear shoulder, just to the right of the scapula.

Hint: Reach around with your left hand (under the left armpit) and place your obscene jesture finger just to the right of the scapula/shoulder blade.

Now, with your right obscene jesture finger, place the finger on the right front chest, just below the right nipple (with the hand under the forearm/wrist of the left arm)

Now, in sitting erect, look down at this and one will find that the angle between the two points is slightly right to left and slightly downwards.

Now, maintaining the points of contact, lean over onto the left shoulder until almost horizontal, with the right shoulder rolled slightly backwards. This virtually eliminates any "cross-angle", and thereafter makes the penetration through the chest of JBC primarily a "downward angle" of entry, as well as making the elongated nature of the shoulder entry exactly match what the HSCA drew and described as the "Abrasion Collar" nature of this type entry.

Lastly, if you wish to see how the leg got into the way, draw the legs up into the complete fetal position.

Hope that answers any questions.

Tom

P.S. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc:

Hmmm, What Z frame do you put the last head shot / Connolly shoulder shot at? I am presuming you are saying there were two headshots, 313 and ? -Bill

Z-frame numbers only count if one has a complete and intact copy of the actual film.

Therefore, how about this:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm

Impact point of third shot:---------------------------------4+95

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Impact point of Z313/aka second shot:------------------4+65.3

About 30 feet farther down Elm St. from the impact point of the headshot as seen in Z313.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm

Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z342.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's about as clear as I can make it!

Thanks Tom - I will give all of this a very close look. It's my impression that you have been providing clues that lay in this direction for some time. Need to try to get my head around it - it's almost like having to relearn everything from the beginning.

- lee

it's almost like having to relearn everything from the beginning.

Life is after all, a journey of mistakes and learning!

Hope this is some assistance in the "re-learning" process.

And for the "newcomers", this too was long ago provided.

There are many who claim to be searching for the truth.

Unfortunately, many fail to recognize it when it is provided in the "written word".

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm

Therefore, one must frequently "draw pictures" as well.

And fortunately for all, Mr. West did this as well.

Was there anything in Mr. Altgens testimony that anyone failed to understand???????

[Chris Davidson]

Tom,

I thought this might relate to 4+95.

It consists of 3 consecutive frames. Altgen's legs start to appear in the rightmost frame.

Center frame has a red circle and something within it.

It's in all versions that I have, this being the most distinguishable.

chris

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Z313 came from DalTex building

From: reverendmack@hotmail.com (Rev. Mack)

Date: Mon, Apr 5, 2004

There was a right-wing volunteer in the Daltex building

who administered the head shot.

Agreed

Hi Lee, Who do you believe Izquierdo was spotting for?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Z313 came from DalTex building

From: reverendmack@hotmail.com (Rev. Mack)

Date: Mon, Apr 5, 2004

There was a right-wing volunteer in the Daltex building

who administered the head shot.

Agreed

Hi Lee, Who do you believe Izquierdo was spotting for?

Well!

That is most interesting!

Especially considering that the Z313 impact was created with a Carcano bullet which was fired from the Carcano rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSDB.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The item, identified as Commission Exhibit No. 569, was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, did you examine this bullet fragment with a view to determining whether it had been fired from the rifle, Exhibit 139?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG - What was your conclusion?

Mr. FRAZIER - This bullet fragment, Exhibit 569, was fired from this particular rifle, 139.

Mr. EISENBERG - Again to the exclusion of all other rifles?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I have absolutely little doubt that those who see assassins in each and every bush/manhole/behind every tree/on top of every bldg./ as well as body snatchers hiding around also, could easily come up with a plausible explanation as to exactly how it was that the Carcano rifle got moved over to the Dal-Tex Bldg. in 5.8 (=/-) seconds (time between shot#1/CE399 and shot# 2/aka Z313) and thereafter immediately moved back to the TSDB.

Anyone out there who has any doubts that the headshot bullet at Z313 is the bullet which severely fragmented??????

[Lee Forman]

Z313 came from DalTex building

From: reverendmack@hotmail.com (Rev. Mack)

Date: Mon, Apr 5, 2004

There was a right-wing volunteer in the Daltex building

who administered the head shot.

Agreed

Hi Lee, Who do you believe Izquierdo was spotting for?

Well!

That is most interesting!

Especially considering that the Z313 impact was created with a Carcano bullet which was fired from the Carcano rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSDB.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The item, identified as Commission Exhibit No. 569, was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, did you examine this bullet fragment with a view to determining whether it had been fired from the rifle, Exhibit 139?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG - What was your conclusion?

Mr. FRAZIER - This bullet fragment, Exhibit 569, was fired from this particular rifle, 139.

Mr. EISENBERG - Again to the exclusion of all other rifles?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I have absolutely little doubt that those who see assassins in each and every bush/manhole/behind every tree/on top of every bldg./ as well as body snatchers hiding around also, could easily come up with a plausible explanation as to exactly how it was that the Carcano rifle got moved over to the Dal-Tex Bldg. in 5.8 (=/-) seconds (time between shot#1/CE399 and shot# 2/aka Z313) and thereafter immediately moved back to the TSDB.

Anyone out there who has any doubts that the headshot bullet at Z313 is the bullet which severely fragmented??????

Still trying to work it out Tom. If I had a 3D model to play with it would be a lot easier. I only need to establish the positions of Kennedy and Connally at the time of the Kennedy head Graze wound / Connally Should/chest wound to see where it came from. The pitch and curve to Elm presents a lot of problems.

I would like to see that piece of Exhibit 569 myself, along with the test rounds - in addition to test rounds fired from other Carcanos as a comparison. It would be great to get independent confirmation from experts [plural], as opposed to solely relying on the FBI. Assuming anything is accurate because it came from an 'official' source is insufficient, in my opinion.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce570.jpg

Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, what portion of the Exhibit 569 was unmutilated enough to allow you to make a comparison of its markings?

Mr. FRAZIER - Approximately one-third. Actually, the entire base section of the bullet was present, but approximately one-half of that base was mutilated. On the mutilated area, either marks were destroyed completely by striking some object, or being compressed or stretched, or they were thrown out of relationship with each other by stretching or compressing to the extent that they were of no value.

So I would estimate approximately one-third of the area was present.

Mr. EISENBERG - Now, when you say one-third, is this total area or circumference?

Mr. FRAZIER - Circumference, one-third of the circumference.

Mr. EISENBERG - Do you have any further pictures of any of the bullets, Mr. Frazier?

Mr. FRAZIER - No, I do not.

Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, I hand you two bullets and ask whether you are familiar with them.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, I am. These are the two test bullets which I fired from this rifle, Exhibit 139.

Perhaps it is my own flawed character that leads me to question the authority and validity of anything produced by someone reporting to Hoover during this timeperiod.

"The thing I am most concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so that we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Nix stabilized view. As the FBI had put out the word about wanting all films associated with the event, Orville's film was turned over for three days - [as per Wikipedia]. Hence, IMO, unreliable as a source of genuine record - and there is sufficient material in other areas to establish unreliability. Anything that would have passed through the hands of the FBI during this time-period should be handled with loads of salt. If there is a more of a gap in time between the graze wound and the final headshot, then the Nix film would have needed to have been altered in turn. If these two shots were purposely synchronized to more closely illustrate a single shot, from the rear, in the Zapruder film, it follows that the Nix film would have also needed to have been 'corrected.'

However, still worth using to demonstrate the concept [especially since I have nothing else available] - red line is the graze wound to the top right of Kennedy's head which then went on at a minimum to cause Connally's major wound in his Chest / Shoulder. You can see his reaction. The explanation created and perpetuated surrounding a single shot striking both men at the time Kennedy received the wound to his throat is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

Blue line is the shot to the front temple which followed - which I still believe came from the GKS location.

- lee

Edit: Note Mrs Connally's head.

.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Lee Forman

[Pat Speer]

Nix stabilized view. As the FBI had put out the word about wanting all films associated with the event, Orville's film was turned over for three days - [as per Wikipedia]. Hence, IMO, unreliable as a source of genuine record - and there is sufficient material in other areas to establish unreliability. Anything that would have passed through the hands of the FBI during this time-period should be handled with loads of salt. If there is a more of a gap in time between the graze wound and the final headshot, then the Nix film would have needed to have been altered in turn. If these two shots were purposely synchronized to more closely illustrate a single shot, from the rear, in the Zapruder film, it follows that the Nix film would have also needed to have been 'corrected.'

However, still worth using to demonstrate the concept [especially since I have nothing else available] - red line is the graze wound to the top right of Kennedy's head which then went on at a minimum to cause Connally's major wound in his Chest / Shoulder. You can see his reaction. The explanation created and perpetuated surrounding a single shot striking both men at the time Kennedy received the wound to his throat is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

Blue line is the shot to the front temple which followed - which I still believe came from the GKS location.

- lee

Lee, when you correct the Nix film to portray the downward slope of Elm, the trajectories for the red shot would point back into space high above the TSBD.

If you correct it I think you'll see that the head shot bullet would probably miss Connally's back.

[Lee Forman]

Poor effort, reusing someone else's drawing and Roberdeau's plat. If the physical location of the vehicle - horizontal as well as vertical, Kennedy and Conally's positions, the angle of Connally's wound, and the approximate area the round struck Kennedy's head could all be correlated, it would be helpful in determining where the shot came from, and at what elevation.

Starting to doubt part of the original premise, which is the DalTex. Looking more like the western face of the TSBD. Very odd and not what I had expected - however, it's a rough job. The overlay that I did, roughly simulating Connally's position, almost lines up with Altgens location also.

Anyone with better tools and skills want to take a stab at it?

- lee

Edited July 20, 2007 by Lee Forman

[Lee Forman]

Lee, when you correct the Nix film to portray the downward slope of Elm, the trajectories for the red shot would point back into space high above the TSBD.

If you correct it I think you'll see that the head shot bullet would probably miss Connally's back.

Point well taken Pat. I could try to simulate the grade, if I knew it, but I don't have the kind of tools to be able to follow any of this stuff back. It would be preferable to start from Connally's wound and work backward, but I can't do it.

I took another look - I believe my angle is much too steep. Still, it seems to rule out the DalTex broom closet, if the theory has any merit.

- lee

Edited July 20, 2007 by Lee Forman

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Z313 came from DalTex building

From: reverendmack@hotmail.com (Rev. Mack)

Date: Mon, Apr 5, 2004

There was a right-wing volunteer in the Daltex building

who administered the head shot.

Agreed

Hi Lee, Who do you believe Izquierdo was spotting for?

Well!

That is most interesting!

Especially considering that the Z313 impact was created with a Carcano bullet which was fired from the Carcano rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSDB.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The item, identified as Commission Exhibit No. 569, was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, did you examine this bullet fragment with a view to determining whether it had been fired from the rifle, Exhibit 139?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG - What was your conclusion?

Mr. FRAZIER - This bullet fragment, Exhibit 569, was fired from this particular rifle, 139.

Mr. EISENBERG - Again to the exclusion of all other rifles?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I have absolutely little doubt that those who see assassins in each and every bush/manhole/behind every tree/on top of every bldg./ as well as body snatchers hiding around also, could easily come up with a plausible explanation as to exactly how it was that the Carcano rifle got moved over to the Dal-Tex Bldg. in 5.8 (=/-) seconds (time between shot#1/CE399 and shot# 2/aka Z313) and thereafter immediately moved back to the TSDB.

Anyone out there who has any doubts that the headshot bullet at Z313 is the bullet which severely fragmented??????

Still trying to work it out Tom. If I had a 3D model to play with it would be a lot easier. I only need to establish the positions of Kennedy and Connally at the time of the Kennedy head Graze wound / Connally Should/chest wound to see where it came from. The pitch and curve to Elm presents a lot of problems.

I would like to see that piece of Exhibit 569 myself, along with the test rounds - in addition to test rounds fired from other Carcanos as a comparison. It would be great to get independent confirmation from experts [plural], as opposed to solely relying on the FBI. Assuming anything is accurate because it came from an 'official' source is insufficient, in my opinion.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce570.jpg

Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, what portion of the Exhibit 569 was unmutilated enough to allow you to make a comparison of its markings?

Mr. FRAZIER - Approximately one-third. Actually, the entire base section of the bullet was present, but approximately one-half of that base was mutilated. On the mutilated area, either marks were destroyed completely by striking some object, or being compressed or stretched, or they were thrown out of relationship with each other by stretching or compressing to the extent that they were of no value.

So I would estimate approximately one-third of the area was present.

Mr. EISENBERG - Now, when you say one-third, is this total area or circumference?

Mr. FRAZIER - Circumference, one-third of the circumference.

Mr. EISENBERG - Do you have any further pictures of any of the bullets, Mr. Frazier?

Mr. FRAZIER - No, I do not.

Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, I hand you two bullets and ask whether you are familiar with them.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, I am. These are the two test bullets which I fired from this rifle, Exhibit 139.

Perhaps it is my own flawed character that leads me to question the authority and validity of anything produced by someone reporting to Hoover during this timeperiod.

"The thing I am most concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so that we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."

- lee

Perhaps it is my own flawed character that leads me to question the authority and validity of anything produced by someone reporting to Hoover during this timeperiod

Well! Having spoken with Robert Frazier on numerous occassions, there was never an instant in which I thought that he was making any attempt to be deceitful.

In fact, quite to the contrary, he was direct and forthwright when asked specific and direct questions.

Quite obviously, not unlike virtually every other FBI Agent, he had to "play" Hoover's games or else he would have ended up like Melvin Purvis, whom Hoover personally set out to destroy.

Nevertheless, Robert Frazier is to be complimented for having left us so many "clues", without having told us that he left these clues.

And one can rest assured that as a ballistic expert, Frazier knows far more than he has ever told.

Tom.

P.S. Frazier is also the one responsible for having informed us as to exactly who it was that removed the small 0.9 grain, cone-shaped, flat-based lead fragment from CE840 and made it pull a disappearing act.

Just because one does not understand the answers is not indicative that the person giving the answers is not telling the truth.

Frequently, it merely means that one does not understand the answers.