Mark Bell Film

[Jack White]

After seeing Chris's clear Bell gif, of Sitzman making a left turn to head towards the pergola entrance, and Zapruder walking over towards the hester's area.

I am now more convinced than ever, that Altgens 8 shows Sitzman and Zapruder standing near the pedestal as they are starting to walk.

Robin...I have asked Bernice to post my latest study which

I think will change your mind about the authenticity of

Altgens 8. After about an hour of looking at light and shadow,

I compared the same area in Wiegman and Altgens...and

ONE AREA POPPED OUT IN SUNLIGHT THAT IS SHADOWED

IN WIEGMAN. I think this is indisputable. Bernice....

Jack

Jack,

The matching parts of the colonnade are marked in red. Two views from different angles - you picked the wrong one is why they do not match.

Bill

WRONG. see new definitive study.

*****************

Jack.......

B.....

I find it interesting that nobody wants to discuss the fakery of Altgens 8.

Jack

[Bill Miller]

Jack, the circle you have called sunlight on the colonnade in Altgens 8 is actually the sunlight shining off of Sitzman's left shoulder. You simply are misinterpreting these images IMO.

Bill

Edited July 23, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

If you are in agreement that the 2 previous animations are the same point in time, let's proceed

This is from the Bell movie, also.

I lightened the column area in the background and stabilized it.

When the red box comes up, watch who's in it, then take a look at who is still leaning over Mrs.Hester. (red arrow)

You might want to compare that red box area movement to Mr.Hester in the previous animation.

In other words, Mr.Hester is in two places at one time.

Film has been altered, that's why the original is so dark back there.

cheers

chris

Chris,

The original film only shows shadows on the wall beyond Mrs. Hester and it is not dark like you claimed above. I am most puzzled as to why you made that statement? This darker version shown in this thread deepens the shadows and gives the impression that you may be looking at someone, but it is just an illusion. I have since contacted Gary Mack and the Museum's lighter and sharper image shows no one beyond Mrs. Hester.

Bill

[Chris Davidson]

If you are in agreement that the 2 previous animations are the same point in time, let's proceed

This is from the Bell movie, also.

I lightened the column area in the background and stabilized it.

When the red box comes up, watch who's in it, then take a look at who is still leaning over Mrs.Hester. (red arrow)

You might want to compare that red box area movement to Mr.Hester in the previous animation.

In other words, Mr.Hester is in two places at one time.

Film has been altered, that's why the original is so dark back there.

cheers

chris

Chris,

The original film only shows shadows on the wall beyond Mrs. Hester and it is not dark like you claimed above. I am most puzzled as to why you made that statement? This darker version shown in this thread deepens the shadows and gives the impression that you may be looking at someone, but it is just an illusion. I have since contacted Gary Mack and the Museum's lighter and sharper image shows no one beyond Mrs. Hester.

Bill

Bill,

Originally I thought the shadow on the grass was Mr.Hester rising over Mrs.Hester.

Sean Murphy figured out the shadow was the Mrs. rising.

Now to your question about the shadow.

Wiegman has the Mrs. rising while Mr.Hester is stepping into the colonnade, which is what is shown in the red box/Bell film.

The frames are from Groden's DVD. The original's are much darker than what I have presented here.

That's one of the benefits of Photoshop's Shadow/Highlight tool.

I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong, but it will not happen this time.

And for absolute verification that it's Mr.Hester moving in the red box, notice the shadow he casts on the concrete as he enters the colonnade.

It's very apparent in Wiegman as well as Bell. Look carefully for the movement, it's there.

If you are telling me the original that Gary has does not show Mr.Hester, stabilize the frames and if necessary lighten them.

If he is still not there, one of these versions is altered.

Here is Mr.Hester and ground shadow in Wiegman.

Next post, Mr.Hester and ground shadow in Bell.

chris

[Chris Davidson]

Mr. Hesters shadow in Bell.

Also, here is an original frame from Groden's DVD for a lighting comparison to the gif.

chris

[Jack White]

Mr. Hesters shadow in Bell.

Also, here is an original frame from Groden's DVD for a lighting comparison to the gif.

chris

Chris...why would Hester's shadow be darker than the shadows on the wall

on which it is superimposed?

Jack

[Chris Davidson]

Mr. Hesters shadow in Bell.

Also, here is an original frame from Groden's DVD for a lighting comparison to the gif.

chris

Chris...why would Hester's shadow be darker than the shadows on the wall

on which it is superimposed?

Jack

Jack,

I think it's the reverse shadow lighting phenomenon which occured on 11-22-63.

thanks for the extra set of perceptive eyes,

chris

[Bill Miller]

Bill,

Originally I thought the shadow on the grass was Mr.Hester rising over Mrs.Hester.

Sean Murphy figured out the shadow was the Mrs. rising.

I would sure like to hear more about the shadow being Mrs. Hester's for there is no way from where she was laying on the ground that her shadow could reach the wall of the colonnade. I look forward to having you clarify that claim.

The frames are from Groden's DVD. The original's are much darker than what I have presented here.

What original's are you talking about? I asked Gary Mack to view the original Bell Film and he said that it was much lighter than the poor dark images of Robert's on his DVD.

That's one of the benefits of Photoshop's Shadow/Highlight tool.

And for absolute verification that it's Mr.Hester moving in the red box, notice the shadow he casts on the concrete as he enters the colonnade.

I agree that it is Charles Hester in the red box. I have never thought otherwise. It was the red arrow illustration that I questioned.

Bill

[Jack White]

Mr. Hesters shadow in Bell.

Also, here is an original frame from Groden's DVD for a lighting comparison to the gif.

chris

Chris...why would Hester's shadow be darker than the shadows on the wall

on which it is superimposed?

Jack

Jack,

I think it's the reverse shadow lighting phenomenon which occured on 11-22-63.

thanks for the extra set of perceptive eyes,

chris

The sunlight played strange tricks in Dealey Plaza on 11-22. I recall that

in the Bronson slide, Zapruder and Sitzman cast no shadow on the ground.

So I am not surprised that there can be a dark shadow on top of a light

shadow, both cast by the sun.

I am surprised to see your Wiegman frames of Hester jumping up in

Wiegman. I had never seen that before looking at Wiegman. How many

frames does it take for him to spring from the ground to behind the post?

Seems too fast to be physically possible to me. Can you do a frame count

and calculate the time?

Thanks for all your excellent film work!

Jack

[Chris Davidson]

Bill,

Originally I thought the shadow on the grass was Mr.Hester rising over Mrs.Hester.

Sean Murphy figured out the shadow was the Mrs. rising.

I would sure like to hear more about the shadow being Mrs. Hester's for there is no way from where she was laying on the ground that her shadow could reach the wall of the colonnade. I look forward to having you clarify that claim.

The frames are from Groden's DVD. The original's are much darker than what I have presented here.

What original's are you talking about? I asked Gary Mack to view the original Bell Film and he said that it was much lighter than the poor dark images of Robert's on his DVD.

That's one of the benefits of Photoshop's Shadow/Highlight tool.

And for absolute verification that it's Mr.Hester moving in the red box, notice the shadow he casts on the concrete as he enters the colonnade.

I agree that it is Charles Hester in the red box. I have never thought otherwise. It was the red arrow illustration that I questioned.

Bill

Bill,

The red arrow indicates Mrs.Hester, not her shadow. Maybe I should refer to it as her silhouette.

When did I say her shadow reaches any wall? Where did that come from?

The original's refer to the unlightened frames off the DVD. Which is why I furnished an example.

Are you now saying you can see Mr.Hester walking in the background in Gary's version of the Bell film?

chris

Edited July 26, 2007 by Chris Davidson

[Chris Davidson]

Mr. Hesters shadow in Bell.

Also, here is an original frame from Groden's DVD for a lighting comparison to the gif.

chris

Chris...why would Hester's shadow be darker than the shadows on the wall

on which it is superimposed?

Jack

Jack,

I think it's the reverse shadow lighting phenomenon which occured on 11-22-63.

thanks for the extra set of perceptive eyes,

chris

The sunlight played strange tricks in Dealey Plaza on 11-22. I recall that

in the Bronson slide, Zapruder and Sitzman cast no shadow on the ground.

So I am not surprised that there can be a dark shadow on top of a light

shadow, both cast by the sun.

I am surprised to see your Wiegman frames of Hester jumping up in

Wiegman. I had never seen that before looking at Wiegman. How many

frames does it take for him to spring from the ground to behind the post?

Seems too fast to be physically possible to me. Can you do a frame count

and calculate the time?

Thanks for all your excellent film work!

Jack

Jack,

I count approx 50 frames using 2 different versions.

The real time version I have puts it at 3 seconds.

chris

[Jack White]

Thanks, Chris...that seems too fast to me, to get from on the ground to behind the post.

Jack

[Bill Miller]

Bill,

The red arrow indicates Mrs.Hester, not her shadow. Maybe I should refer to it as her silhouette.

I guess what was confusing is where you said the following ... "When the red box comes up, watch who's in it, then take a look at who is still leaning over Mrs.Hester. (red arrow)"

When did I say her shadow reaches any wall? Where did that come from?

It came from - "then take a look at who is still leaning over Mrs.Hester"

Bill

[Robin Unger]

Bill,

The red arrow indicates Mrs.Hester, not her shadow. Maybe I should refer to it as her silhouette.

I guess what was confusing is where you said the following ... "When the red box comes up, watch who's in it, then take a look at who is still leaning over Mrs.Hester. (red arrow)"

When did I say her shadow reaches any wall? Where did that come from?

It came from - "then take a look at who is still leaning over Mrs.Hester"

Bill

I believe that Chris had written his comment BEFORE Sean, myself, and Chris had then all came to the same conclusion.

The dark shadow which was originally thought to be Mr Hester leaning over his wife, is in fact Mrs hester in her dark Green dress leaning over her coat on the ground,

The same coat that can be seen hanging over the back of the seat she is sitting on, in the opening frames of the Zapruder film.

Edited July 26, 2007 by Robin Unger

[Bill Miller]

The sunlight played strange tricks in Dealey Plaza on 11-22. I recall that

in the Bronson slide, Zapruder and Sitzman cast no shadow on the ground.

So I am not surprised that there can be a dark shadow on top of a light

shadow, both cast by the sun.

Jack

To understand how the shadows should look or in what way they would be cast - look at the witnesses on the ground such as the Newman's.

Bill