DeGaulle and Kennedy.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

A group of Facist French Generals, dedicated to retaining Algeria as a French colony, were the middle men in the 1961, and 1962 assassination attempts on General Degaulle.

Colonel Basten Theiry was in charge of the later attempt. he set a group of professional assassins up at an intersection in the suburbs of Paris. The gunmen fired off more than 100 rounds, but Degaulle, in a bullet proof car evaded being hit, despite all the tyres being shot out, the driver increased his speed and DeGaulle was saved.

Theiry was executed for his role in the attempted assassination, but went to his death refusing to reveal who had planed, and financed the attempt. French intellegence however traced the money trail to the FBI's Permindex operation in Switzerland, and Centro Mondiale Comerciale in Rome, the overall command unit of the assassination, they further revealed was division five of the FBI.

Jeremy Milton Brooks testified in New Orleans that a Maruice Gatlin, a man he knew well, was the transporter for the CIA, and division five. Gatlin, he claimed had left N/O, in early 1962, on behalf of Permindex with $100,000 of the FBIs money, and delivered it, to the Generals planning the Coup. Gatlin was also General counsel to the Anti Communist league of the Carribean, where he worked directly under one Guy Bannister. In 1964, Gatlin fell six floors to hs death at the hotel El Panama, in Panama City. He was by all accounts killed instantly.

After the 1961 attempt on DeGaulle, the French paper Le Monde noted in an Editorial that. " It now seems established that some American agents encouraged Maurice Challe....Kennedy obviously had nothing to do with this affair. To make this plain he he considered it necessary to offer aid to General DeGaulle, well intentioned certainly, but inopportune.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Stephen Turner

[Robert Howard]

I believe there were some connections between the anti-DeGaulle French and the Intelligence Services of the United States, esp. circa 1961-64. What's more the individuals you referenced Maurice Gatlin, Jerry Milton Brooks and Guy Bannister were definitely not around long enough to tell their stories, [if they ever would to begin with] DeLesseps Morrison also seems to factor in to a degree, I have ran across a few items which suggest that "he was suspected, or, at a minimum being cast as someone with Communist sympathies, my knowledge of this is from reading some declassified files, but I picked up on the same type of "being portrayed as" a Communist that I did when I read all the propaganda mill type material about JFK;

Attempting to read between the lines I would imagine that he [DeLesseps] merely was not a rapid-Anti-Castro type of politician, which would have been equated as virtually the same as being a Communist in certain circles. What is particularly frustrating is the whole issue of the "member of French intelligence" who was "whisked away" from the Dallas Ft Worth area on 11/22/63 and whose identity still is up in the air, unless that has been resolved and it is not common knowledge.

The whole Christian David, Lucien Sarti controversy is IMO more of the "endless debate" type dynamic where researchers are hanging in the wind because the respective governments of the United States and France appear as interested in resolution of the conflicting stories, as a contestant on American Idol would be if they were asked to do a number by Boxcar Willie......[There was a conspiracy theory of a quite different nature, a few years back when it was alleged that the aforementioned "Boxcar" Willie had sold more records than Elvis or the Beatles "combined." Fortunately that has been resolved, lol

Bottom line.....There are a ton of newly declassified documents which have been posted en masse on the Mary Ferrell website, thanks to Rex Bradford.....Hopefully something will emerge from the documents still being sifted thru, a more likely way to get to the "heart of the matter" would be for someone in the French government to "drop da bomb," but geopolitics, being what it is, even with the recent media cruxifiction of the French, see Freedom Fries, I honestly can't see that happening......There are some interesting references to the global drug trade, SDECE [French Intelligence] and even Lucien Sarti in "The Strength of the Wolf" by Douglas Valentine....See pgs 412-413

A very important book as is, The Canadian Connection [Fr.] by Jean-Pierre Charbonneau [translated by James Stewart] Charbonneau's tome was a little too elucidating for some tastes, and he was the subject of a few attempts on his life, which fortunately did not succeed. I am told he later went on to become a member of the Canadian Parliament......

[Myra Bronstein]

I think most people here are aware of one of the earliest books written on the assassination of President Kennedy:

"Farewell America," and that the named author was a pseudonym. Supposedly French intelligence was behind the book

(possibly with Russian intelligence):

http://www.jfk-online.com/farewellcom.html

Perhaps it's a tenuous link, but if it's true then French intelligence sure seemed to know a lot about the US coup awfully fast.

[Tim Gratz]

Stephen wrote:

"French intellegence however traced the money trail to the FBI's Permindex operation in Switzerland, and Centro Mondiale Comerciale in Rome, the overall command unit of the assassination, they further revealed was division five of the FBI."

Stephen, source please? Original source, not just some writer who may be as credible as Judyth Baker or Jim Files. If it comes from a book, what source does the author cite?

If there is a connection between the two plots, there is of course one terrible, awful distinction. One succeeded.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Pamela Brown]

The theory that the assassination of JFK and the attempts on DeGaulle were linked is also explored in Michel Collins Piper's "Final Judgment", which focuses on the Mossad connection to the assassination of JFK. It is definitely worthy of research.

[Tim Gratz]

As I have discussed at length on previous threads Michael Piper Collins is a notorious anti-Semite and Holocaust denier. JFK and RFK were great friends of the state of Israel and there is no evidence to support Collins' theory which is obviously fueled by his hatred of Jews.

[Mark Stapleton]

The theory that the assassination of JFK and the attempts on DeGaulle were linked is also explored in Michel Collins Piper's "Final Judgment", which focuses on the Mossad connection to the assassination of JFK. It is definitely worthy of research.

Pamela,

I agree. As regular readers of the Forum would be aware, I believe Mossad was involved in the assassination. JFK was involved in a bitter dispute with Ben-Gurion over Israel's nuclear weapons at the time of his death. When LBJ moved into the White House, Israel was rewarded by increased military aid and a sham inspection regime which allowed them to become the only nuclear power in the region--something Ben-Gurion and Shimon Peres had promised to JFK would not happen.

[Tim Gratz]

Mark, respectfully, I disagree because JFK had removed an arms embargo to Israel as I recall. Although they did disagree on nuclear proliferation.

Moreover, as VB correctly points out in his otherwise erroneous book, motive does not equate to evidence of involvement. "Cui bono" gets us no where fast.

If it did, John would have to start a thread on Jackie!

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Contemporary news reports.

Marquis Childs, Le Monde.

" As one of the highest officials of France put it...."Of course your Government(US) neither your State Dept nor your President had anything to do with this, but, when you have thousands of agents in every part of the World, it is not to be wondered at that some of them should be in touch with the Generals in Algiers."

L' Express, Paris.

"Knowing the sobriety, the prudence and ambition of General Challe, all of his close friends confirm that he was encouraged by his companions in NATO. In the course of the final conversations which he had in Paris certain America agents have told him...."Succeed quickly- inless than 48 hours- in a technical coup d'etat, and we will support you."

Crosby S Noyles, Washington Star.

"At least half a douzen foreign newsmen were given privately to understand that the Generals plot was backed by strongly anti-Communist elements in the US government, and Military services. The leader of the revolt, General Maurice Challe was reported to have recieved assurances that any move to keep Algeria under permanent French domination, and out of Algerian hands, would be in the interests of the United States."

Said Il Passe Rome.

"IT is not by chance that French officials are accusing the U S secret service headed by Allen Dulles(sic) of having participated in the plot of the four "Ultra"(read Facist) Generals. Franco, Salazar and Dulles hide their intentions behind the Ultras, they are the pillars of an International conspiracy that bases itself on Dictatorship, on the residue of the most fierce, blind colonialism, and on the intrigues of the CIA, and reacts furiously to the advance of progress and Democracy whilst pretending to support these ideals."

Nothing, it seems changes........

[Tim Gratz]

Well, if anyone wants to get serious about this they should read about Michael Mertz in "Triangle of Death". That could be some type of nexus.

[Steve Thomas]

Stephen,

A group of Facist French Generals, dedicated to retaining Algeria as a French colony, were the middle men in the 1961, and 1962 assassination attempts on General Degaulle.

I don't know if you have seen this Gary Shaw Freedom of Information request, but if you haven't, you might be interested in this.

See page 11 particularly.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...c.do?docId=6060

Steve Thomas

[Tim Gratz]

A great addition, Mr. Thomas! I hope everyone takes the time to read it!

I assume everyone knows that Jim Lesar who represents Jeff Morley in the Joannides case had been Bud Fensterwald's law partner.

[Mark Wilson]

The theory that the assassination of JFK and the attempts on DeGaulle were linked is also explored in Michel Collins Piper's "Final Judgment", which focuses on the Mossad connection to the assassination of JFK. It is definitely worthy of research.

Pamela,

I agree. As regular readers of the Forum would be aware, I believe Mossad was involved in the assassination. JFK was involved in a bitter dispute with Ben-Gurion over Israel's nuclear weapons at the time of his death. When LBJ moved into the White House, Israel was rewarded by increased military aid and a sham inspection regime which allowed them to become the only nuclear power in the region--something Ben-Gurion and Shimon Peres had promised to JFK would not happen.

Good points,Pamela and Mark.Both JFK and DeGaulle were enemies of Israel's interests,JFK in regards to Israel's nuclear project and DeGaulle in regards to Israel's opposition to Algeria's independence.Final Judgement is a must read,imo,when looking at theories involving the assassination of JFK and the attempted assassination of DeGaulle..It has been awhile since i read Final Judgement.I thought Piper did an outstanding job showing that,coincidently??,many of the same journalists and authors that embraced,promoted,and advertised the "Oswald lone nut Communist assassin did it theory" were also shills for other Israeli interests at later dates...Back on topic,anyone interested in the DeGaulle assassination attempt with in the context of the JFK assassination should read Final Judgement.

[Tim Gratz]

Mark, read some real history by scholars, for gosh sake, instead of reading a screed by a man so dishonest as to deny the Holocaust.

If Collins lies about the Holocaust (a historical fact) then nothing he says is worthy of belief. "Falsus in Uno" is the standard jury instruction given in just about every court case in which the judge directs the jury that if they find a witness has lied about any one thing they can (should is implied) disregard every word of his under-oath testimony.

Mark, do you admit there was a Holocaust?

JFK and Israel were not enemies--they disagreed on one, admittedly important, matter.

Here is an analogy maybe simple enough for you to understand: Rudolph Guliani has always been one of George Bush's biggest supporters, but their position on abortion and other issues are 180 degrees apart. The difference on that one admittedly important issue do not make them enemies, nor does it mean that Guliani would plot Bush's assassination.

There, I think that is simple enough for you to understand. JFK was Israel's friend and Collins does not know a hole in the ground from--

from--

from--

from the Holocaust.

BY THE WAY, I SEE YOU HAVE NO BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION OR PHOTO POSTED. WHAT IS YOUR REAL NAME, SIR?

Edited August 17, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Mark Wilson]

As I have discussed at length on previous threads Michael Piper Collins is a notorious anti-Semite and Holocaust denier. JFK and RFK were great friends of the state of Israel and there is no evidence to support Collins' theory which is obviously fueled by his hatred of Jews.

Gratz,You're a xxxx and your statement proves you will stop at nothing to further your agenda.

JFK was no great friend of the State of Israel.His position was very clear,Israel was to abide by the Tripartite Declaration of 1950,remember that small after thought of yesteryear.RFK was known by many to make anti semitic slurs in private. JFK's and RFK's father,Joseph Kennedy had well known anti semitic views not withstanding wanting to appease Hitler.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Mark Wilson