In Praise -- and Defense -- of Jack White

[Myra Bronstein]

I must say that I find Myra's post above an extraordinary, irrational and unfair attack on John Simkin. In fact if you wanted a better caricature of an irrational female diatribe ( I await the accusations of sexism with relish - I'll store it with my anti americanism ), you would have to indulge in a good day's march to find one.

Let us not forget here that John funds this forum which he runs with my help for no profit and on top of working full time. He also runs it very fairly. This time he has had enough. Jack White for too long has had carte blanche to traduce anyone with the temerity to hold an opposing view to his. This now has ended. Mr White can still post but the moderators and admins reserve the right to make sure he remains within our board rules..... this is not unreasonable.. live with it - it is not likely to change anytime soon.

...

Aright Andy!

Always there to lower the level of discourse.

I couldn't ask for a better caricature of a misogynist male.

I don't know which depresses more the fact that this garbage is being played out on a forum I helped set up with educational aims in mind, or the fact that I am bothering to respond to such meaningless crap at all

Hmmm...

Andy is talking about making sure a member like Jack "remains within our board rules."

Isn't swearing against the board rules?

So what does it mean then that Andy swears on the forum, within this very post in fact?

Does it mean that swearing is now allowed for all?

Does it mean that only mods and admins can swear on the forum?

Does that mean that Andy, and only Andy, is not bound by the rules of the forum?

Or does it mean that Andy is particularly poor at expressing himself effectively without recourse to swearing?

Andy/Jan 31 2007/post #18>

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=9256&st=15

"John's original post in this thread amounted to an appeal for an end to bad language and gratuitous insults. I agree with him incidentally that many of the Americans here appear particularly poor at expressing themselves effectively without recourse to either.""

Andy/Jan 31 2007/post #26>

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=9256&st=15

"Just take the message please members that if you continue to swear at each other and abuse each other your posts and perhaps even your membership will be deleted."

Based on Andy's apparent inability to express himself effectively without recourse to swearing, I have to wonder if a few drops of American blood are diluting the ice water in his veins.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Myra Bronstein

[Charles Drago]

Enough is enough.

John Kennedy is dead. Robert Kennedy is dead. Martin Luther King, Jr. is dead.

Their murderers evade justice.

The world is aflame as a consequence.

And we're ripping ourselves apart in a fury over <expletive deleted> swearing?!

Edited October 6, 2007 by Evan Burton
Expletive deleted by Moderator

[Myra Bronstein]

Enough is enough.

John Kennedy is dead. Robert Kennedy is dead. Martin Luther King, Jr. is dead.

Their murderers evade justice.

The world is aflame as a consequence.

And we're ripping ourselves apart in a fury over XXXXXXX swearing?!

You've come a long way from "No More Posts Until Jack is Back."

Edited October 6, 2007 by Evan Burton
Removed expletive from quote

[Bill Miller]

Some of you people are becoming an embarrassment to the research community. Attempting to defend something that is indefensible doesn't reflect well on one's ability to be viewed as a sensible and rational thinker. Some of you are responding with raw biased emotion instead of sound reasoning.

If I was an under-aged kid looking at this thread - I'd hope that I never grow up if this is all the better I could hope to be like.

Bill Miller

Edited October 6, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Evan Burton]

Charles - you know better than to use such language. Please do not use it again. Thank you.

[John Simkin]

I mistrust you in that I think you too often tend to take the low road in terms of interpersonal issues, and I think that as a forum administrator you often lack discretion. Here is precisely when my mistrust started:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...amp;#entry82388

Post #11, wherein you responded to allegations that you were a CIA agent (which I believe are false) as follows:

John>"I accept your point about researchers who disagree with your theories spreading rumours about you being CIA. I therefore would not be surprised if people I have clashed with me in the past like Tim Gratz, Tim Carroll, Ashton Gray, Wim Danbaar, Tom Purvis, etc. put it around that I was CIA. As a result of their past history, they would probably not be believed...."

My response came in post #33 in the same thread:

Myra>"The point being that I'll decide for myself what I think of people. It's insulting and suspicious to be told what to think. If John is trying to boost his own credibility by naming names, then he failed with me 'cause I don't appreciate those tactics. They're heavy handed, and frankly kinda catty, in addition to being unprofessional.

Whether it's CIA strategy (which I don't believe) or just bad judgement, it's a negative.

Now, since I've "clashed" with John will I see my name in the next edition of "rogue's gallery"?"

And that's exactly what happened. I ended up in the rogue's gallery because I openly objected to your tactic John (new to me at that point 'cause I was a new member) of attacking people openly by name on your public forum in a heavy-handed attempt to influence readers' opinions.

Since then I've openly objected to your public forum insults of Americans. And most recently I objected to your nasty public digs about Jack's age:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...t=0&start=0

John>"However, recently, Jack White has started several threads that have been completely untrue. It has been argued that he is an old man who gets confused and because of his “great work in the past” he should be allowed to post his nonsense. While I agree we should be more generous in our attitudes towards our senior citizens, there comes a point where you have to say enough is enough."

"Old man...confused...senior citizen." My god, how condescending and callous.

THAT is why I mistrust you John. Because I think you fight dirty.

Instead of sticking with issues and behavior, you make personal attacks.

You are welcome to your opinion Myra. I would be interested to know if anyone else shares this view. If a significant number do, I will of course resign as an administrator of this forum.

[Antti Hynonen]

To all,

I have a quick and easy solution!

Anyone not happy with the Forum and the way it's run, leave! No one is forcing you to stay.

Thank you for your attention.

[Dawn Meredith]

Folks,

Please.

"The issue at hand in this thread is of course the integrity (what's left of it) of this forum." Andy Walker post #103

Total agreement. I once suggested that if people here NEED to flame, do it via PM or email. It's a very unwelcome distraction on this forum.

Dawn

[Guest]

I must say that I find Myra's post above an extraordinary, irrational and unfair attack on John Simkin. In fact if you wanted a better caricature of an irrational female diatribe ( I await the accusations of sexism with relish - I'll store it with my anti americanism ), you would have to indulge in a good day's march to find one.

Let us not forget here that John funds this forum which he runs with my help for no profit and on top of working full time. He also runs it very fairly. This time he has had enough. Jack White for too long has had carte blanche to traduce anyone with the temerity to hold an opposing view to his. This now has ended. Mr White can still post but the moderators and admins reserve the right to make sure he remains within our board rules..... this is not unreasonable.. live with it - it is not likely to change anytime soon.

...

Aright Andy!

Always there to lower the level of discourse.

I couldn't ask for a better caricature of a misogynist male.

I don't know which depresses more the fact that this garbage is being played out on a forum I helped set up with educational aims in mind, or the fact that I am bothering to respond to such meaningless crap at all

Hmmm...

Andy is talking about making sure a member like Jack "remains within our board rules."

Isn't swearing against the board rules?

So what does it mean then that Andy swears on the forum, within this very post in fact?

Does it mean that swearing is now allowed for all?

Does it mean that only mods and admins can swear on the forum?

Does that mean that Andy, and only Andy, is not bound by the rules of the forum?

Or does it mean that Andy is particularly poor at expressing himself effectively without recourse to swearing?

Andy/Jan 31 2007/post #18>

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=9256&st=15

"John's original post in this thread amounted to an appeal for an end to bad language and gratuitous insults. I agree with him incidentally that many of the Americans here appear particularly poor at expressing themselves effectively without recourse to either.""

Andy/Jan 31 2007/post #26>

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=9256&st=15

"Just take the message please members that if you continue to swear at each other and abuse each other your posts and perhaps even your membership will be deleted."

Based on Andy's apparent inability to express himself effectively without recourse to swearing, I have to wonder if a few drops of American blood are diluting the ice water in his veins.

The contents of this latest post by Myra are so childish and so transparent to be not worthy of any further comment

However it is clear that Myra and some of her friends are bent on trying to destroy this forum for reasons unknown to me.

My view is that this forum would be a far better place without Myra and her ilk.

I see from his posts today that John is pretty much fed up with wading through her nonsense and that of her friends on a daily basis. Perhaps it is time for Myra to leave and perhaps bless another forum with her perspicacity, insight and wit.... maybe she could consider starting her own?

[Charles Drago]

Charles - you know better than to use such language. Please do not use it again. Thank you.

Evan,

You have my assurance that I shall continue to comply with this Forum's sensible ban on the gratuitous use of what is commonly identified as obscenity.

However, please know the following:

My use of the deleted word was hardly gratuitous. I addressed the absurdity of the situation at hand by providing a side-by-side comparison of obscenities, and by implicitly asking readers to judge relative levels of offensiveness. My inspiration? Lenny Bruce.

Myra,

Your passionate commitment to truth and justice for JFK inspires me. You are appreciated by many who visit and contribute to these cyber pages. Don't you DARE permit yourself to be bullied out of the playground.

Sincerely,

Charles Drago

[Bill Miller]

Don't you DARE permit yourself to be bullied out of the playground.

Sincerely,

Charles Drago

Maybe seeing this site as a 'playground' might be part of the problem. At the same time ... the sentiments offered for Myra could also be applied to those who have to enforce some sense of respectability for the purpose that this site was created to serve. Shame on those who stand so close to the mirror that they only see themselves and not the other people around them.

Bill Miller

[Charles Drago]

Don't you DARE permit yourself to be bullied out of the playground.

Sincerely,

Charles Drago

Maybe seeing this site as a 'playground' might be part of the problem. At the same time ... the sentiments offered for Myra could also be applied to those who have to enforce some sense of respectability for the purpose that this site was created to serve. Shame on those who stand so close to the mirror that they only see themselves and not the other people around them.

Bill Miller

Bill,

And perhaps part of the problem is the inability of certain members of this Forum to rise above literalness to grasp such heavily nuanced aspects of language as metaphor.

Charles

[Guest]

Don't you DARE permit yourself to be bullied out of the playground.

Sincerely,

Charles Drago

Maybe seeing this site as a 'playground' might be part of the problem. At the same time ... the sentiments offered for Myra could also be applied to those who have to enforce some sense of respectability for the purpose that this site was created to serve. Shame on those who stand so close to the mirror that they only see themselves and not the other people around them.

Bill Miller

Bill,

And perhaps part of the problem is the inability of certain members of this Forum to rise above literalness to grasp such heavily nuanced aspects of language as metaphor.

Charles

Gosh

Let us hope you are also using the word "bullied" as a metaphor for perhaps "moderated"

[Myra Bronstein]

Don't you DARE permit yourself to be bullied out of the playground.

Sincerely,

Charles Drago

Maybe seeing this site as a 'playground' might be part of the problem. At the same time ... the sentiments offered for Myra could also be applied to those who have to enforce some sense of respectability for the purpose that this site was created to serve. Shame on those who stand so close to the mirror that they only see themselves and not the other people around them.

Bill Miller

Bill,

And perhaps part of the problem is the inability of certain members of this Forum to rise above literalness to grasp such heavily nuanced aspects of language as metaphor.

Charles

Gosh

Let us hope you are also using the word "bullied" as a metaphor for perhaps "moderated"

Charles,

Don't you DARE permit yourself to be "moderated" out of choosing your own words.

And thank you for your note. I'll post more on another thread.

On edit, related threads:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11175

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11177

Edited October 6, 2007 by Myra Bronstein

[Charles Drago]

Gosh

Let us hope you are also using the word "bullied" as a metaphor for perhaps "moderated"

The moderate bully. The bullying moderate.

Two great pub names, don't you think?