Black Propaganda Ops

[Cliff Varnell]

Friday, 26 April 1963:

George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles go to a CIA front business in New York City:

Train, Cabot and Associates.

The Train was John Train, CIA-connected descendant of the Enoch Train

opium operation in the 19th century.

And the Cabot family was a leading Boston Brahmin opium smuggling outfit

in the 19th Century.

Makes one wonder whether Train, Cabot was a CIA front -- or was the CIA

a front for the likes of Train, Cabot?

[Ashton Gray]

Friday, 26 April 1963:

George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles go to a CIA front business in New York City:

Train, Cabot and Associates.

The Train was John Train, CIA-connected descendant of the Enoch Train

opium operation in the 19th century.

And the Cabot family was a leading Boston Brahmin opium smuggling outfit

in the 19th Century.

Makes one wonder whether Train, Cabot was a CIA front -- or was the CIA

a front for the likes of Train, Cabot?

That's a thwacking good question. Whoever was fronting for whom, there's so much more to the George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles show that it royally deserves its own thread. With apologies to Bill Kelly, I'll just say briefly here that it seems clear to me now that Operation Red Cross was actually a CIA op to deliver a gaggle of Cubans for something connected with those two, of course having nothing whatsoever to do with picking up any Soviets. (And, naturally, a gaggle of Cubans with arms disappeared, and no Soviets came back.)

Ashton

[Cliff Varnell]

Friday, 26 April 1963:

George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles go to a CIA front business in New York City:

Train, Cabot and Associates.

The Train was John Train, CIA-connected descendant of the Enoch Train

opium operation in the 19th century.

And the Cabot family was a leading Boston Brahmin opium smuggling outfit

in the 19th Century.

Makes one wonder whether Train, Cabot was a CIA front -- or was the CIA

a front for the likes of Train, Cabot?

That's a thwacking good question. Whoever was fronting for whom, there's so much more to the George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles show that it royally deserves its own thread.

This is absolutely on topic. The black ops behind the Castro-did-it black op.

I'm of the view that an understanding of the "DeMoh & Charles Show" unlocks a

deeper understanding of the Kennedy assassination.

Here's the cast of main characters:

George de Mohrenschildt

Thomas J. Devine (WUBRINY1)

Clemard Joseph Charles

Train, Cabot and Associates

DeM's Texas financier(s)

Herve Boyer, Haitian Minister of Finance

Joesph F Dryer

The un-named French business partner

Ashton, I've stripped your timeline down to deM business -- thanks for putting

this together.

Emphases mine...

Friday, 19 April 1963

George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt leave Dallas, Texas for Washington, D.C. [NOTE: See entry for 20 April 1963 putting De Mohrenschildt in Washington. From there, the couple will travel also to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania—where the wife of James McCord recently has traveled via Dallas—and to New York City.]

Saturday, 20 April 1963

According to a CIA memo, George De Mohrenschildt meets with someone in Washington, D.C. on this date, but the name of the person he met with is blacked out in the memo.

Thursday, 25 April 1963

On or about this date, evidence indicates that Clemard Joseph Charles arrives in Washington, D.C., and is in touch with Army Intelligence's Dorthe Matlack. Charles has been recommended by Joseph Dryer of West Palm Beach, Florida (close to CIA's JM/WAVE) as "a man of great interest to the U.S. Government." [NOTE: It cannot be determined if George De Mohrenschildt is still in Washington, D.C. at the time or not, but the following day he will meet in New York City with Clemard Joseph Charles and others.]

Friday, 26 April 1963

George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles go to a CIA front business in New York City:

1. WUBRINY/1 [Thomas James Devine] telephoned on the sterile line at approximately 17000 hours to report on a meeting held this afternoon, as described below.

2. WUBRINY/1 said that M. Clemard Joseph CHARLES, subject of earlier contact Reports, brought to the WUSALINE office [New York office of Wall Street investment firm Train, Cabot and Associates]:

3. Mr. DeMohrenschildt (deM) is the son of a Swedish father who was in Baku on a Nobel Enterprise at the time deM was born, left Baku at age 2. He has had two wives, the present one having been born in Peiking of Russian-French parents. In 1960 deM spent a year in Mexico with his wife and child and a donkey and is publishing a book on this titled something like 'Trois et le Mule.'

4. WUBRINY/1 says that deM is a geologist who is presently involved in exploring the mineral resources of Haiti and in established [sic] a seisel [sic—sisal] plantation. This has been written up in Le Montour [or Le Monteur] of March 13, 1963, the official issuance of the Haitian Government. WUBRINY/1 has a copy of this in the event it is not available in Kubark.

According to this article, a $280,000 survey has been awarded to deM plus a ten year option of a concession on seisel [sic—sisal].

5. deM claims that he has done geological work for the Meek (?) Company in offshore oil, the Arabian Peninsula, and mentioning this WUBRINY/1 says

deM looked around the room and over his shoulder and said, "My connection with this is, of course, confidential."

6. WUBRINY/1 reports that deM claims to be an important person in Port-au-Prince and said that he did not go to the President to gain the concession, but, instead, worked through the Minister of Finance, Herve Boyer [or Boyar]. deM claims to be very close to this Minister, considers him a splendid person and says that he is likely to survive any change in the regime.

7. WUBRINY/1 characterized deM as being a typical international financier and wheeler and dealer who

apparently shared with M. CHARLES various business interests including a bank and seisel [sic—sisal] business.

8. Regarding financial developments in Haiti, WUBRINY/1 said that M. CHARLES and deM said that they were anxious to develop a number of business interests in the country, including an office in deM's bank [sic—should this be Charles's bank?] which would enter into car financing and would buy some of the bank's commercial paper. WUBRINY/1 said that M. CHARLES made an unusual statement in this connection and announced that the third partner (in addition to M. CHARLES and deM) a Frenchman is arriving in New York n Sunday and a meeting has been set up for WUBRINY/1 to meet him on Monday.

In this connection, M. CHARLES amazing statement was, "It is not appropriate for a banker to ask for money, " and he then deferred further discussion until the arrival of the French partner.

9. WUBRINY/1 said that M CHARLES and deM in listing the various investment possibilities in Haiti mentioned an insurance company, a banking company, a telephone company, a hotel (buy an existing one), a hydro-electric system, a wharf (interesting because of the availability of lumber in Cuba for this and the need to get it out).

10. WUBRINY/1 said that

both men showed an element of bluff in their presentations

and they spoke depreciatingly of the President, but spoke glowingly of the investment possibilities in Haiti.

11. WUBRINY/1 reported that deM was "a paper grabber" stating that every available handout in the office of WUBRINY/1 was sought by deM such as prospecti, lists of Directors, stockholders, etc., etc.

12. I congratulated WUBRINY/1 on eliciting such a tremendous amount of information in one short meeting and asked him to keep it up when the meeting schedule for Monday comes off.

C. FRANK STONE, III

Chief

DO/COEO

DO/COEO/EFS:jj(29 Apr 63)

Distribution:

Orig - EO subject

1 - EO chromo

1 - WUBRINY Ops

[ NARA 1993:07.31.11:47:55:210047]

• On the same day, CIA's Gale Allen, a case officer of the Domestic Operations Division (DOD), initiates a request for an expedite check of George De Mohrenschildt, "exact reasons unknown."

Monday, 29 April 1963

CIA Office of Security finds that it has "no objection" to George De Mohrenschildt's acceptance of a contract with the Duvalier regime of Haiti in the field of "natural resource development." The Office of Security furnishes CIA's Domestic Operations Division (DOD) with a copy of a 1958 summary of the case of George De Mohrenschildt (#775).

[NOTE: There is no known reason why DeMohrenschildt had been "of interest" to the CIA in 1958. This April 1963 event is indicative of one of the oddest anomalies of the many surrounding De Mohrenschildt: his entire raison d'etre, purportedly laid over years or decades, regarding working in Haiti was related to his geological credentials, experience, and research. Later, there even are maps he supplies for possible oil resources around Haiti. Yet this "natural resource development" that he's about to embark on in Haiti with Clemard Joseph Charles is primarily for starting a hemp farm.]

Thursday, 2 May 1963

• [T]here is a meeting between CIA and Clemard Joseph Charles in New York City: "Charles expressed hope that President Kennedy and other high U.S. Government officials will give him an opportunity to present his plan to save Haiti from 'Duvalier and Communism.' He plans to visit his friend and American business partner, Joseph F. Dryer, in Tampa and hopes that an audience with high U.S. Government officials could be arranged after the weekend 'most discreetly.' Utmost caution imperative in this regard since "Papa Doc" Duvalier would kill his family if he learned about Charles' cooperation with U.S. After the four hour interview Charles insisted that we meet his good friend and business partner, DeMohrenschildt. He told us that he has absolute confidence in the honesty and ability of Charles whom he considers a potential leader in a Democratic Haiti. Charles' great advantage is that he has never been tied up with any political party." [NARA 1993.07.31.11:51:57:280047]

Let us add further from another timeline Ashton presented in another thread:

The 10 May 1963 memo from State Department's Haitian Desk characterizing

Clemard Joseph Charles as someone close to the Duvalier government and an

"undesirable character."

And this from the WUBRINY contact report of May 21, 1963:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=9

1. WUBRINY1 telephoned on the sterile line at approximately 1630 hours to pass the

following information:

2. Mr. deMOHRENSCHILDT dropped into the SALINE offices this afternoon. He

said that M. Clemard Joseph CHARLES has returned to Haiti and is being seriously

considered as the next President. Subject said that M. CHARLES is receiving

considerable support and in subject's opinion would make an excellent President

of Haiti as soon as Duvalier can be gotten out.

3. deMOHRENSCHILDT said that he has obtained some Texas financial backing

and that he has visited interested people in Washington regarding M. CHARLES

candidacy. He did not identify these contacts to WUBRINY.

Conspicuously missing from this time-line is any report on the Monday, April 29, '63

meeting between Devine, deM, Charles and the un-named "French business partner."

In light of the above, let's review our cast of characters.

George de Mohrenschildt

According to the official story, deM was in Haiti from 1963 to 1967 on

oil business.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKdemohrenschildt.htm

If that's the case, "the Baron" spent four years in Haiti finding not one drop of oil.

He also spent four years not growing any hemp. According to Gaeton Fonzi, the sisal

plantation was "derelict" and never visited.

DeM, suspected of aiding a CIA plot to overthrow Duvalier, also spent four years not

affecting the overthrow of the Haitian tyrant.

According to the official story, deM also looked after the Haitian interests of his long-time

employer, Clint Murchison, Jr. This appears to be the singular success of deM's career

in Haiti.

Clint Murchison, Jr. was in business with Vito Genovese, Meyer Lansky, and Carlos

Marcello, major mafia figures whose principal business was narcotics.

Was it Murchison who was supplying the "Texas financing" deM mentions?

From the memo: "WUBRINY/1 says deM looked around the room and over his shoulder

and said, 'My connection with this is, of course, confidential.'"

Of course, George. Knowledge of guilt so noticed. The ultra-discreet Thomas Devine would

keep anything illegal most confidential.

Thomas J. Devine (WUBRINY1)

George H. W. Bush formed Zapata Offshore with Thomas J. Devine of the CIA

in 1953.

http://www.realnews.org/stories/2007-06-01_bushcia.html

The new revelation about George H.W. Bush's CIA friend and fellow Zapata Offshore board member will surely fuel further speculation that Bush himself had his own associations with the agency.

Indeed, Zapata's annual reports portray a bewildering range of global activities, in the Mideast, Asia and the Caribbean (including off Cuba) that seem outsized for the company's modest bottom line.

Zapata Offshore's annual reports showed a modest bottom line which must account for

George H. W. Bush's accumulated wealth during that period, as well as the "outsized"

operations of his company.

According to Tarpley & Chaitkin, Zapata Offshore provided services for oil drilling

platforms, as well as operating several mobile drilling platforms themselves.

http://www.tarpley.net/bush8.htm

Zapata Offshore could send helicopters on "maintenence runs" out to the platforms

and back to the U.S. mainland without rigorous custom's checks, or none at all.

Given Bush's connections with the contra-cocaine smuggling scandal of the

80's, it's fair to speculate that Zapata Offshore was a narcotics smuggling

enterprise.

http://www.fair.org/extra/8910/north-banned.html

"Poppy," indeed.

Clemard Joseph Charles

Question: When is it "not appropriate" for a banker to ask for money,

or otherwise broadcast his services?

Answer: When the banker launders drug money. In such a case, the

client approaches the banker, not the other way around, or else the

banker loses considerable leverage in the negotiation.

Let's get an overview of Clemard Joseph Charles career and those of

some of his later associates...

From Pete Brewton's The CIA, the Mafia, & George Bush, in the

"Cast of Principal Characters" section:

CLEMARD JOSEPH CHARLES, Haitian exile who laundered money for Mario Renda

to bribe union officials; CIA asset; mob money launderer; associate of Miami lawyer

who represented Lawrence Freeman.

LAWRENCE FREEMAN, disbarred Miami attorney and convicted money launderer for

cocaine smuggler Jack DeVoe;...former law partner of CIA super-operative Paul Helliwell

and alleged money launderer for Mafia boss Santo Trafficante.

MARIO RENDA, Long Island money broker...convicted felon and Mafia associate with

a number of CIA buddies.

JACK DEVOE, convicted cocaine trafficker and CIA-connected arms smuggler...

Charles operated at the nexus of the CIA/drug-smuggling/arms-smuggling/money

laundering. He was regarded as an "undesirable character" even before he

hooked up with the CIA!

Train, Cabot and Associates

Would descendants of opium smugglers ever be tempted to pick up the old

family trade?

Did these families ever fully divest of their interest in international narcotics

distribution?

DeM's Texas financier(s)

Was deM acting as an agent for the mobbed-up Murchison?

Herve Boyer, Haitian Minister of Finance

Here's a great article about Mohamed Al Fayed and the corrupt nature of

the Haitian government in the pertinent time period, and the activities of

Boyer, Charles, and deM post-JFK.

http://www.guardianlies.com/Section%206/page35.html

By 1962 the US had cut off aid and President Kennedy had sworn to destroy the dictator even though Haiti - 80 kilometres off the south-eastern tip of Cuba - was seen as an essential bulwark in the fight against communism creeping throughout the Caribbean and Central America. Most foreign investors had already abandoned the country along with the educated local elite and the expat community of writers, artists and adventurers. As a result, by 1964 anyone who landed in Haiti with the air of prosperity and the right connections got a royal welcome.

Did deMo do anything other than socialize, and sweat the JFK investigations?

Joesph F Dryer

Charles' U.S. contact testified before the HSCA.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/hscademo.htm

Emphasis mine...

Dryer said he met George de Mohrenschildt through Charles. Dryer said that

de Mohrenschildt claimed he came to Haiti to scout for oil, but Dryer stated that "I

could never figure out what he did." Dryer expressed the belief that de Mohrenschildt

had "some intelligence connection," but Dryer did not know with which country.

The un-named French business partner

In this scenario the Frenchman belongs to the Corsican Mafia, which controlled

the production of heroin in the late-40's, 50's and 60's. The deal set up in the offices

of Train, Cabot involved the Frenchman bringing the heroin to Haiti under the auspices

of Boyer and Charles, with deMohenschildt sheparding its delivery to Zapata Offshore

facilities (their own drilling platforms or other platforms they "serviced") where it would

be transported to the mainland and turned over to Sicilian/American syndicate

distributors Stateside.

From the Staff interview of Dorothe Matlack, Sept. 4, 1978, House Select committee on

Assassinations (JFK Document No. 015042)

"Referring to de Mohrenschildt, Mrs. [Dorothe] Matlack said, "'I knew the Texan wasn't

there to sell hemp.'"

Not in Kansas anymore, Dorothe. Seems to me heroin was their game.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Cliff Varnell

[Ashton Gray]

Friday, 26 April 1963:

George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles go to a CIA front business in New York City:

Train, Cabot and Associates.

The Train was John Train, CIA-connected descendant of the Enoch Train

opium operation in the 19th century.

And the Cabot family was a leading Boston Brahmin opium smuggling outfit

in the 19th Century.

Makes one wonder whether Train, Cabot was a CIA front -- or was the CIA

a front for the likes of Train, Cabot?

That's a thwacking good question. Whoever was fronting for whom, there's so much more to the George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles show that it royally deserves its own thread.

This is absolutely on topic. The black ops behind the Castro-did-it black op.

I'm of the view that an understanding of the "DeMoh & Charles Show" unlocks a

deeper understanding of the Kennedy assassination.

...Not in Kansas anymore, Dorothe. Seems to me heroin was their game.

I believe that was Dorothy to Toto, and I find your cobbled-together timeline of great and absorbing interest—but I really do believe it must be taken out of this thread, which specifically is concerned with propaganda, and the de Mohrenschildt/Charles show was the antithesis of propaganda, having been largely a covert operation

In the timeline of it, you're absolutely correct to have extended it into May, May and June 1963 being crucial months in which the play unfolds in tandem with Operation Red Cross and MacGeorge Bundy's sting on Kennedy to get U.S. ships out of the area.

I will present a specific timeline of those related events in a few days—probably Monday—in its own thread and incorporate there what you have included there. Out of respect for Bill Kelly's excellent work, I will not post more on this in this thread.

Ashton

[William Kelly]

Friday, 26 April 1963:

George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles go to a CIA front business in New York City:

Train, Cabot and Associates.

The Train was John Train, CIA-connected descendant of the Enoch Train

opium operation in the 19th century.

And the Cabot family was a leading Boston Brahmin opium smuggling outfit

in the 19th Century.

Makes one wonder whether Train, Cabot was a CIA front -- or was the CIA

a front for the likes of Train, Cabot?

That's a thwacking good question. Whoever was fronting for whom, there's so much more to the George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles show that it royally deserves its own thread. With apologies to Bill Kelly, I'll just say briefly here that it seems clear to me now that Operation Red Cross was actually a CIA op to deliver a gaggle of Cubans for something connected with those two, of course having nothing whatsoever to do with picking up any Soviets. (And, naturally, a gaggle of Cubans with arms disappeared, and no Soviets came back.)

Ashton

Ashton,

No apologies necessary. Wondering if the DeMohrenschilt/CJCharles Haiti op was connected in any way with the Bayo-Pawley guys who were coming off an anti-Papa Doc operation?

Also, agree with you assessment of Bayo-Pawley being a "CIA op to deliver a gaggle of Cubans" and nothing to do with the Ruskies. There's hundreds of pages of CIA JMWAVE docs on that mission and other reports of interest that I will post under the Bayo-Pawley thread when time allows.

While I will get back to the black prop ops and their connections to Dealey Plaza, the DeMohrn/Haiti sidetrack is certainly worthy of blazing a new trail.

BK

[Cliff Varnell]

From the WUBRINY memo:

"Referring to de Mohrenschildt, Mrs. [Dorothe] Matlack said, "'I knew the Texan wasn't

there to sell hemp.'"

Not in Kansas anymore, Dorothe. Seems to me heroin was their game.

[/quote

PLEASE point me toward this WUBRINY memo. I spent long periods of time wit Prouty discussing things and one point he made EVERY time was 'look into Dorothe Mattlack!...and there is precious little on her. She met De Mohrenshschild once when he came to DC to testify, in order to [prep] him I know.....

My mistake, Peter -- it wasn't from the WUBRINY memo, but from the HSCA Staff

interview of Dorothe Matlack, Sept. 4, 1978, (JFK Document No. 015042).

More here under deM's activities in Haiti:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo4/j.../hscademo.htm#V

[Cliff Varnell]

Bill,

I'll argue going forward that the "deMoh & Charles" show is not a side-track

at all, but fundamental to understanding both the "who" and especially the

"why" of the Kennedy assassination.

Friday, 26 April 1963:

George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles go to a CIA front business in New York City:

Train, Cabot and Associates.

The Train was John Train, CIA-connected descendant of the Enoch Train

opium operation in the 19th century.

And the Cabot family was a leading Boston Brahmin opium smuggling outfit

in the 19th Century.

Makes one wonder whether Train, Cabot was a CIA front -- or was the CIA

a front for the likes of Train, Cabot?

That's a thwacking good question. Whoever was fronting for whom, there's so much more to the George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles show that it royally deserves its own thread. With apologies to Bill Kelly, I'll just say briefly here that it seems clear to me now that Operation Red Cross was actually a CIA op to deliver a gaggle of Cubans for something connected with those two, of course having nothing whatsoever to do with picking up any Soviets. (And, naturally, a gaggle of Cubans with arms disappeared, and no Soviets came back.)

Ashton

Ashton,

No apologies necessary. Wondering if the DeMohrenschilt/CJCharles Haiti op was connected in any way with the Bayo-Pawley guys who were coming off an anti-Papa Doc operation?

Ya think?

From Henrik Kruger's The Great Heroin Coup, pg. 146:

Loran Hall, another former Trafficante casino employee, claimed that

both his boss and Sam Giancana had helped plan the [bayo-Pawley] raid.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

Friday, 26 April 1963:

George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles go to a CIA front business in New York City:

Train, Cabot and Associates.

The Train was John Train, CIA-connected descendant of the Enoch Train

opium operation in the 19th century.

And the Cabot family was a leading Boston Brahmin opium smuggling outfit

in the 19th Century.

Makes one wonder whether Train, Cabot was a CIA front -- or was the CIA

a front for the likes of Train, Cabot?

That's a thwacking good question. Whoever was fronting for whom, there's so much more to the George De Mohrenschildt and Clemard Joseph Charles show that it royally deserves its own thread.

This is absolutely on topic. The black ops behind the Castro-did-it black op.

I'm of the view that an understanding of the "DeMoh & Charles Show" unlocks a

deeper understanding of the Kennedy assassination.

...Not in Kansas anymore, Dorothe. Seems to me heroin was their game.

I believe that was Dorothy to Toto, and I find your cobbled-together timeline of great and absorbing interest—but I really do believe it must be taken out of this thread, which specifically is concerned with propaganda, and the de Mohrenschildt/Charles show was the antithesis of propaganda, having been largely a covert operation.

I'm going to stay put in this thread, since it all ties together.

What work did deM do in Haiti?

He developed maps, part of a geological survey of Haiti's oil potential, or so the

legend goes.

HSCA:

De Mohrenschildt stated to the Warren Commission that the undertaking in Haiti was a purely commercial and geological interest, with no other "purpose or intent."(107) De Mohrenschildt explained that the office he used in Port-au-Prince was in fact the office of the Inter-American Geodetic Survey, but that the maps he developed were not to be used by any nation or group for any type of work other than his own geological interests.

I submit deM was more interested in identifying the best embarkation points on

the Haitian coast for smuggling operations.

[Cliff Varnell]

Ashton, please allow me to add to the time-line another item of (possibly)

extreme import.

Absolutely on topic...

Sunday, 28 April 1963 (on or around)

Undersecretary of State W. Averell Harriman and Cuban dictator Fidel Castro

are both in Moscow. Via Peter Dale Scott:

http://www.history-matters.com/pds/DP3_Chapter5.htm

The simultaneous convergence on Moscow of Harriman and Castro was thus

preceded by signals that progress in accommodation between them could be

brokered by Khrushchev (who had every motive vis-a-vis his own hard-liners

to be successful in this respect). But what looked hopeful to some evoked

paranoia in others. Soon the right-wing journalists Robert Allen and Paul Scott,

who wrote from sources in military intelligence, wrote a column under the

provocative title, "Did Harriman Meet Castro in Russia?" They reported that

the Senate Preparedness Subcommittee, chaired by the pro-military Senator

John Stennis, was investigating the allegation that the two men had met "

around April 28, in either Moscow or Murmansk" (where both were visiting).

Castro allegedly was seeking diplomatic recognition in exchange for a reduction

in Soviet troop levels.

[Cliff Varnell]

Ashton, please allow me to add to the time-line another item of (possibly)

extreme import.

Absolutely on topic...

Sunday, 28 April 1963 (on or around)

Undersecretary of State W. Averell Harriman and Cuban dictator Fidel Castro

are both in Moscow. Via Peter Dale Scott:

http://www.history-matters.com/pds/DP3_Chapter5.htm

The simultaneous convergence on Moscow of Harriman and Castro was thus

preceded by signals that progress in accommodation between them could be

brokered by Khrushchev (who had every motive vis-a-vis his own hard-liners

to be successful in this respect). But what looked hopeful to some evoked

paranoia in others. Soon the right-wing journalists Robert Allen and Paul Scott,

who wrote from sources in military intelligence, wrote a column under the

provocative title, "Did Harriman Meet Castro in Russia?" They reported that

the Senate Preparedness Subcommittee, chaired by the pro-military Senator

John Stennis, was investigating the allegation that the two men had met "

around April 28, in either Moscow or Murmansk" (where both were visiting).

Castro allegedly was seeking diplomatic recognition in exchange for a reduction

in Soviet troop levels.

While we're at it:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/VNngo.htm

On May 8, 1963, Buddhists assembled in Hue to celebrate the 2527th birthday of

the Buddha. Attempts were made by the police to disperse the crowds by opening

fire on them. One woman and eight children were killed in their attempts to flee

from the police.

How is this on-topic?

Consider that in 1963 the global real estate most coveted by international

heroin traffickers was the SE Asian Golden Triangle and the Havana-to-Florida

smuggling routes -- not necessarily in that order.

The Lansky/Trafficante crime syndicate and, I'll argue going forward, their

transportation-tycoon business partners (Zapata Offshore, Murchison Oil Lease)

hoped to secure and hold both of these very valuable parcels and thereby eliminate

the Corsican Mafia and all manner of other middlemen (see "The deMoh & Charles Show").

According to a source of mine, who was in 1963 the 13-year old daughter of a Diem

secret police commander, the May 8 police attack was strictly a CIA-run operation.

A Buddhist, she insists that the sectarian hostilities of the spring and summer of 1963

in SVN were fueled by the Americans.

I would speculate that the American behind this was Harriman. The 1962 Laotian

Accords were designed to clear all foreign troops out of Laos, leaving it "neutral"

and thus highly exploitable for its opium production.

But the N. Vietnamese left a sizable military presence in Laos -- a Nikita double-cross?

There was no way Harriman was going to allow Vietnam to go the "neutral" route.

Edited October 29, 2007 by Cliff Varnell

[Tim Gratz]

It is interesting, Cliff, that I agree with you (but i have only my political instict to go on) that Harriman may have been a "sinister force".

[Ashton Gray]

Ashton, please allow me to add to the time-line another item of (possibly)

extreme import.

Absolutely on topic...

Cliff, I agree that what you've been posting here is of extreme importance, although we disagree on its suitability for this thread.

I'm posting briefly here only to say that I have not abandoned this, that I am working on creating a unified timeline of relevant events for a separate thread, that I'm having to dance between raindrops to do it, and also that I am having to rely on the assistance and contributions of several other people to help me get it pulled together and to get some of the kinks worked out (and there are more than a few kinks, let me tell you).

I can't say with any degree of accurate prediction when I'll be able to post the other thread, but please be aware that it is being worked on diligently, and that all of your data is being very thoroughly appreciated and incorporated. As soon as I possibly can I will post what has been put together on this. I believe you will find it all of great interest.

Ashton

[Cliff Varnell]

Ashton, please allow me to add to the time-line another item of (possibly)

extreme import.

Absolutely on topic...

Cliff, I agree that what you've been posting here is of extreme importance, although we disagree on its suitability for this thread.

I'm posting briefly here only to say that I have not abandoned this, that I am working on creating a unified timeline of relevant events for a separate thread, that I'm having to dance between raindrops to do it, and also that I am having to rely on the assistance and contributions of several other people to help me get it pulled together and to get some of the kinks worked out (and there are more than a few kinks, let me tell you).

I can't say with any degree of accurate prediction when I'll be able to post the other thread, but please be aware that it is being worked on diligently, and that all of your data is being very thoroughly appreciated and incorporated. As soon as I possibly can I will post what has been put together on this. I believe you will find it all of great interest.

Ashton

I look forward to the new thread, Ashton.

As far as this one goes, allow me to allude to Bill's original item #10:

10) Brothers Jerry and James Buchanan, CIA propaganda assets, began promoting the Castro-did-it theme immediately. According to Donald Freed and Jeff Cohen (in Liberation Magazine), the source of the Buchanan's tales was the leader of the CIA supported International Anti-Communist Brigade (IAB). "Back in Miami," they wrote, "a high powered propaganda machine was cranking out stories that Oswald was a Cuban agent…" Sturgis is quoted in the Pampara Beach Sun-Sentinel as saying that Oswald had talked with Cuban G-2 agents and fracassed with IAB members in Miami in 1962.

From John Simkin's "Frank Sturgis" post on this Forum:

According to a memo sent by L. Patrick Gray, Director of the FBI, to H. L. Haldeman in 1972: "Sources in Miami say he (Sturgis) is now associated with organized crime activities". In his book, Assassination of JFK (1977), Bernard Fensterwald claims that Sturgis was heavily involved with the Mafia, particularly with the criminal activities of Santos Trafficante and Meyer Lansky in Florida.

Can one throw a rock in this case and NOT hit a dope smuggler?

[William Kelly]

Here is a link to the Jan 1964 CIA report on LHO in MC which debunks the Alvardo story.

It is obvious from this document just how hard the CIA was trying to convince the WC that Castro did it.

This document proves the thesis of Messrs. Kelly, Charles-Dunne and Gray. You think?

Tim,

The CIA is not one big entity - but as Angleton put it, a house with many rooms, and not everybody was iof the same persuasion or in the same room/camp - division/theater of operations, club, whatever - and certainly there were those within the org who recognized the black prop ops for what they were and called a spade a spade, but if that's the way they wanted to go, they could have very easily went with the pro-Castro/commie conspiracy angle if they wanted to.

I find the Harriman connection interesting, and how the Lone-Nut Phase II took over from the Phase I lay out - but you can't get around the fact that in EVERY instance the Castro did it story is shown to be intentional disinformation, usually from CIA or friendly foreign (ie Nicaragua) intel.

So that the CIA was conflicted over the bogus Castro stories does not imply another section of the agency was behind it.

BK

[William Kelly]

Now that we've exaustedly covered the other issues I thought it appropriate to bring the topic back around to the DRE propaganda efforts Ashton Gray has called attention to that attempts to portay the assassination as the work of a communist conspiracy. - BK

The publication put out immediately after the assassination of John F. Kennedy by the Cuban Student Directorate/DRE says in pertinent part (my bold emphasis added, but all-caps in original):

Considering it of top importance we want to reproduce a letter from our Delegate in New Orleans

showing how the International Communism operates.

...The

Americans

started to shout [at Lee Harvey Oswald], "TRAITOR",

"COMMUNIST"

, "GO TO CUBA", "KILL HIM". ...I asked Oswald to explain to me...whether it was "The Fair Play for Cuba Committee" or

"The Fair Play for Russia Committee"

. ...After newspaperman Stuckeley's question,

he [Oswald] declared himself a MARXIST.

...In the debate with the delegate of the Cuban Student Directorate in New Orleans

he [Oswald] proclaimed himself as a marxist-leninist

... .

In the PBS Frontline presentation, Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald, FBI agent James P. Hosty says (my emphasis added):

The original complaint that the police department filed on Lee Oswald, around midnight on the 22nd of November, said that Lee Oswald did,

"in furtherance of an international communist conspiracy,

assassinate President John F. Kennedy." Johnson was fearful that if this had gotten out, it would inflame public opinion and could possibly lead to World War III. This is exactly how World War I began, with an assassination.

From Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach's memo of 25 November 1963 (my emphasis added):

Speculation about Oswald's motivation ought to be cut off, and we should have some basis for

rebutting thought that this was a Communist conspiracy

... . Unfortunately the facts on Oswald seem about too pat - too obvious (Marxist, Cuba, Russian wife, etc.).

The Dallas police have put out statements on the Communist conspiracy theory,

and it was they who were in charge when he was shot and thus silenced.

"Too pat," indeed. "Too obvious," indeed.

But not too pat for a patsy.

The CIA propaganda message for Lee Harvey Oswald—black propaganda and every shade of grey—was that he was any and every shade of Communist.

Ashton Gray