Secret Service Behavior

[Lee Forman]

Why do men carouse in bars? It's a thing to do. Nothing unusual about that except it obviously ought not be done at least late at night by agents responsible for the protection of the president the next day.

As Gerry Hemming has explained what he understands was the back up plan, if the assassins were not certain that JFK had suffered a fatal wound, they would cause the bomb in the car to go off as SS100 passed it. A rather simple but effective plan.

And I believe him, FWIW.

- lee

[John Dolva]

Why do men carouse in bars? It's a thing to do. Nothing unusual about that except it obviously ought not be done at least late at night by agents responsible for the protection of the president the next day.

As Gerry Hemming has explained what he understands was the back up plan, if the assassins were not certain that JFK had suffered a fatal wound, they would cause the bomb in the car to go off as SS100 passed it. A rather simple but effective plan.

"go off as SS100 passed (at ??? MPH) ... rather simple..."

mere minutes or seconds to notify, confirm, decide, prime , time, detonate..and blow the LN theory skyhigh for all time.

Who would KNOW to notify? Abort?

Edited December 8, 2007 by John Dolva

[Tim Gratz]

Well, in "JFK", Hemming himself played the man who would communicate the decision to the person with control of the car bomb.

I do agree that had the conspirators decided to use the car bomb, it might have been difficult to persuade even Earl Warren that LHO was not the sole assassin. But I think the assassins had immunity from prosecution even if it became evident there was a conspiracy.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Well, in "JFK", Hemming himself played the man who would communicate the decision to the person with control of the car bomb.

I do agree that had the conspirators decided to use the car bomb, it might have been difficult to persuade even Earl Warren that LHO was not the sole assassin. But I think the assassins had immunity from prosecution even if it became evident there was a conspiracy.

"I do agree that had the conspirators decided to use the car bomb"

Not unlike "BadgeMan"/"SewerdrainMan"/"Dal-TexMan"/"GrassyknollMan"/ "Greer Did It"/etc; etc; etc;, I have no doubts that the COBS (Crock of Bull Sh**) "Car Bomb" will soon take on a life of it's own and become another of those "facts" which has no basis or foundation in fact.

Even though the logic against such an event, in conjunction with a shooting assassination event, is quite beyond the realm of rational thinking.

Wanna bet against that I can find some who will actually believe that Space Aliens & UFO's had something to do with the assassination?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_Gets_in_Your_Eyes

Better than saying "BS Gets in Your eyes"

[Lee Forman]

Well, in "JFK", Hemming himself played the man who would communicate the decision to the person with control of the car bomb.

I do agree that had the conspirators decided to use the car bomb, it might have been difficult to persuade even Earl Warren that LHO was not the sole assassin. But I think the assassins had immunity from prosecution even if it became evident there was a conspiracy.

"I do agree that had the conspirators decided to use the car bomb"

Not unlike "BadgeMan"/"SewerdrainMan"/"Dal-TexMan"/"GrassyknollMan"/ "Greer Did It"/etc; etc; etc;, I have no doubts that the COBS (Crock of Bull Sh**) "Car Bomb" will soon take on a life of it's own and become another of those "facts" which has no basis or foundation in fact.

Even though the logic against such an event, in conjunction with a shooting assassination event, is quite beyond the realm of rational thinking.

Wanna bet against that I can find some who will actually believe that Space Aliens & UFO's had something to do with the assassination?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_Gets_in_Your_Eyes

Better than saying "BS Gets in Your eyes"

"will soon take on a life of it's own and become another of those "facts" which has no basis or foundation in fact."

If by this you mean it cannot be fact unless it was captured in one of the 26 volumes of the Warren Report - then I concur. If by 'fact' you mean something documented by an official party - I concur again. For example, it is fact that Lee Vida Whatley's son Jim claimed that his Mother angrily discovered a car parked in the reserved Sherriff's parking space that she had special permission to use - behind the picket fence and pergola structure. It is fact as Jim related the story - that the men would not reply to her demands, and that there was another unknown vehicle parked next to it, and that these men were taking long packages from the trunk wrapped in brown paper - and that she wrote down the license plate number of the vehicle and gave it to Roy Truly - but we have only Jim's word to go by - so do we discredit the account? Roy Truly never mentioned a damned thing about it - does this mean it didn't happen?

Roy Hargraves related that he was part of the Dallas operation, and there is sufficient other bits and pieces of information to support this. Roy Hargraves speciality was in demolition. Why would Roy be there? Would you deny that Roy was an operative working under Vidal Santiago? Isn't this a fact?

Slack Tom. You're still calling it fact that Oswald was in the window on the east side of the TSBD on the 6th floor - yet there isn't one single 'fact' of any kind to support that as true - nothing at all.

- lee

[Peter McGuire]

Slack Tom. You're still calling it fact that Oswald was in the window on the east side of the TSBD on the 6th floor - yet there isn't one single 'fact' of any kind to support that as true - nothing at all.

- lee

Let's stop the nonsense once and for all; this bullet did not kill Kennedy. It wasn't fired by Oswald or anyone for that matter.

Kennedy was hit in the back. The bullet intended to kill him was what the military calls a "short shot". Simply put, the bullet did not have sufficient power to kill its intended victim. Furthermore, no bullet went through the back of his neck and therefore, the SBT did not happen, so let's move on.

The question that needs to be answered is why the Secret Service Agent's did NOTHING , once the shots rang out?

Edited December 9, 2007 by Peter McGuire

[Tim Gratz]

Peter: Questions and comments for you:

I am not quite sure what you mean by "short shot". CE399 was NOT found on Connally's stretcher per Tomlinson (see his statements in Nova show availablle on YouTube).

Why couldn't CE399 be the bullet that hit Kennedy in the back and entered only shallowly? Why couldn't in be the "short shot" as you call it?

What evidence is there that there was a "short shot"?

I certainly agree with you that the SBT does not work.

[Peter McGuire]

I certainly agree with you that the SBT does not work.

Great. Now we can move on in this case and try to figure who the real shooters were, who was behind this conspiracy, and why JFK had to be killed.

Now I have got a question: Governor Connelly was shot to pieces as he was hit three or four times by different bullets. Was this extremely poor marksmanship on the part of the assassins, or was the governor also a target?

[Don Jeffries]

The Secret Service has one function- the protection of a specific individual they are assigned to. They are trained to constantly be on the lookout for anyone or anything suspicious. On November 22, 1963, JFK's Secret Service detail didn't react at all to the sound of gunfire. There is no innocent explanation for this. They were either all monumentally incompetent, and thus unqualified for their positions, of they were following instructions from someone to stand down and not do the job they'd been trained to do. To suggest that these highly trained agents would not move a muscle for 5-6 seconds following the sound of gunfire is absurd. Perhaps one or two of them could have had their senses dulled, and were unable to respond as quickly as they usually did due to the late night drinking the night before, but it's completely ridiculous to maintain that ALL of the agents failed to do their job at the same crucial time.

The "performance" of the Secret Service in Dealey Plaza smacked of conspiracy and in any true investigation, Roberts, Kellerman, Greer and co. would have been questioned thoroughly about their suspect behavior. We all speculate about the identities of those who were behind the assassination, but we know that Emory Roberts, Bill Greer and Roy Kellerman, at the very least, acted in a suspicious manner that was not consistent with doing their job properly. I think they are the most likely, and obvious, conspirators at the ground level.

[Don Jeffries]

Deleted doubled post.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Don Jeffries

[John Dolva]

All of them ( 'poised', 'trained', 'alert') , 'on the look-out' (how many? (12 - 13?)), as they approached a building lit by the sun over their left shoulders saw nothing to react to (or said they did not), where persons not 'on the lookout' DID see (or said they did) things of concern, is odd.

[William Kelly]

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/introAB.html

"....Eventually, practitioners of assassination by the removal of power reach the point where they see that technique as fit for the removal of opposition anywhere. That was why President Kennedy was killed. He was not murdered by some lone, gunman or by some limited conspiracy, but by the breakdown of the protective system that should have made an assassination impossible. Once insiders knew that he would not be protected, it was easy to pick the day and the place. In fact, those responsible for luring Kennedy to Dallas on November 22, 1963 were not even in on the plan itself. He went to Texas innocuously enough: to dedicate an Air Force hospital facility at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio. It was not too difficult then to get him to stop at Fort Worth -- "to mend political fences." Of course, no good politician would go to Fort Worth and skip Dallas. All the conspirators had to do was to let the right "mechanics" know where Kennedy would be and when and, most importantly, that the usual precautions would not have been made and that escape would be facilitated. This is the greatest single clue to that assassination. Who had the power to call off or drastically reduce the usual security precautions that always are in effect whenever a president travels? Castro did not kill Kennedy, nor did the CIA. The power source that arranged that murder was on the inside. It had the means to reduce normal security and permit the choice of a hazardous route. It also has had the continuing power to cover up that crime for twelve years...." - Fletcher Prouty

[Peter McGuire]

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/introAB.html

"....Eventually, practitioners of assassination by the removal of power reach the point where they see that technique as fit for the removal of opposition anywhere. That was why President Kennedy was killed. He was not murdered by some lone, gunman or by some limited conspiracy, but by the breakdown of the protective system that should have made an assassination impossible. Once insiders knew that he would not be protected, it was easy to pick the day and the place. In fact, those responsible for luring Kennedy to Dallas on November 22, 1963 were not even in on the plan itself. He went to Texas innocuously enough: to dedicate an Air Force hospital facility at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio. It was not too difficult then to get him to stop at Fort Worth -- "to mend political fences." Of course, no good politician would go to Fort Worth and skip Dallas. All the conspirators had to do was to let the right "mechanics" know where Kennedy would be and when and, most importantly, that the usual precautions would not have been made and that escape would be facilitated. This is the greatest single clue to that assassination. Who had the power to call off or drastically reduce the usual security precautions that always are in effect whenever a president travels? Castro did not kill Kennedy, nor did the CIA. The power source that arranged that murder was on the inside. It had the means to reduce normal security and permit the choice of a hazardous route. It also has had the continuing power to cover up that crime for twelve years...." - Fletcher Prouty

Good quote , Bill. Prouty seemed to think that the "power source" was not only on the inside but much higher than the CIA. Now who could that be?

When historians review the tapes of Kennedy in office they find a lucid president who , in my opinion saved us from WW3 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy's military advisors wanted him to attack Cuba and Cuba it was learned later had nuclear missles trained on the East Coast of the United States. Millions would have died. But Kennedy found another way, the embargo, and nuclear war was avoided.

So , in my opinion, a case for an unfit president fails since Kennedy did an excellent job there and his restraint saved the world from nuclear war.

However, what if this power source felt otherwise?

During the first six months of his presidency, Kennedy's physicians "administered large doses of so many drugs that [Dr. Janet] Travell kept a `Medicine Administration Record'" [6b]. Many of the drugs Kennedy received affect thinking:cortisone [injected] Cortisol has profound psychological effects. At one extreme, "steroid psychosis" can result. At the other, a profound sensation of well-being can occur. In between, the effects are more difficult to characterize.

cortisone [oral]

lomotil For diarrhea. Contains anti-cholinergic compounds, which, in toxic doses, can make someone "mad as a hatter."

paregoric For diarrhea. Contains opium. Mentation is probably unaffected if used in reasonable doses, but Kenndey was taking at least 3 medications for diarrhea, suggesting that doses were high.

phenobarbital A classic "downer"

testosterone Was Kennedy's "bull-like" libido a side effect of testosterone? Was his cholesterol level of 410?

trasentine An anti-diarrhea medication. There is very little published about this drug. Side effects include giddiness and euphoria.

Tuinal A mixture of secobarbital and amobarbital Kennedy used to help him sleep. Amobarbital is better known as Amytal, one of the more common "truth serum" drugs.

amphetamines Post and Robins, writing in 1993, thought it was "highly suggestive" that Kennedy took amphetamines while President, but considered it unproven [16a]. The recent Atlantic article states definitively that Kennedy received injections of amphetamines and painkillers from "Dr. Feelgood," a.k.a. Max Jacobson [6b]. Kennedy dismissed concerns about the injections, saying, "I don't care if it's horse piss. It works." Jacobson's medical license was revoked in 1975. Previously, in 1969, all controlled substances in his possession were confiscated by the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs [16a]. It is thought that Kennedy was under the influence of amphetamines when he made his "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech [16a].

To put things in a different light, if an officer in the U.S. Air Force were taking any one of these medications, he or she would not even be allowed to talk on the radio to aircraft as supervisor of flying. Kennedy, as commander-in-chief, was supervisor for the entire Air Force.

Sources.

Dallek, Robert. An Unfinished Life: John F. Kennedy 1917-1963. Boston: Little, Brown, 2003. ISBN 0-316-17238-3 @ Amazon

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g35.htm

[William Kelly]

Peter,

I don't take the view, which is offered in the bogus disinfo Operation Zipper documents (See: Gregory, et al), that they had JFK killed because he was doing drugs, or was otherwise incapacitated with beautiful women. They didn't need an excuse.

When it all comes out they're going to say okay now we know the truth, and as for justice, that took place at Dealey Plaza.

They're going to say justice was done.

BK

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/introAB.html

"....Eventually, practitioners of assassination by the removal of power reach the point where they see that technique as fit for the removal of opposition anywhere. That was why President Kennedy was killed. He was not murdered by some lone, gunman or by some limited conspiracy, but by the breakdown of the protective system that should have made an assassination impossible. Once insiders knew that he would not be protected, it was easy to pick the day and the place. In fact, those responsible for luring Kennedy to Dallas on November 22, 1963 were not even in on the plan itself. He went to Texas innocuously enough: to dedicate an Air Force hospital facility at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio. It was not too difficult then to get him to stop at Fort Worth -- "to mend political fences." Of course, no good politician would go to Fort Worth and skip Dallas. All the conspirators had to do was to let the right "mechanics" know where Kennedy would be and when and, most importantly, that the usual precautions would not have been made and that escape would be facilitated. This is the greatest single clue to that assassination. Who had the power to call off or drastically reduce the usual security precautions that always are in effect whenever a president travels? Castro did not kill Kennedy, nor did the CIA. The power source that arranged that murder was on the inside. It had the means to reduce normal security and permit the choice of a hazardous route. It also has had the continuing power to cover up that crime for twelve years...." - Fletcher Prouty

Good quote , Bill. Prouty seemed to think that the "power source" was not only on the inside but much higher than the CIA. Now who could that be?

When historians review the tapes of Kennedy in office they find a lucid president who , in my opinion saved us from WW3 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy's military advisors wanted him to attack Cuba and Cuba it was learned later had nuclear missles trained on the East Coast of the United States. Millions would have died. But Kennedy found another way, the embargo, and nuclear war was avoided.

So , in my opinion, a case for an unfit president fails since Kennedy did an excellent job there and his restraint saved the world from nuclear war.

However, what if this power source felt otherwise?

During the first six months of his presidency, Kennedy's physicians "administered large doses of so many drugs that [Dr. Janet] Travell kept a `Medicine Administration Record'" [6b]. Many of the drugs Kennedy received affect thinking:cortisone [injected] Cortisol has profound psychological effects. At one extreme, "steroid psychosis" can result. At the other, a profound sensation of well-being can occur. In between, the effects are more difficult to characterize.

cortisone [oral]

lomotil For diarrhea. Contains anti-cholinergic compounds, which, in toxic doses, can make someone "mad as a hatter."

paregoric For diarrhea. Contains opium. Mentation is probably unaffected if used in reasonable doses, but Kenndey was taking at least 3 medications for diarrhea, suggesting that doses were high.

phenobarbital A classic "downer"

testosterone Was Kennedy's "bull-like" libido a side effect of testosterone? Was his cholesterol level of 410?

trasentine An anti-diarrhea medication. There is very little published about this drug. Side effects include giddiness and euphoria.

Tuinal A mixture of secobarbital and amobarbital Kennedy used to help him sleep. Amobarbital is better known as Amytal, one of the more common "truth serum" drugs.

amphetamines Post and Robins, writing in 1993, thought it was "highly suggestive" that Kennedy took amphetamines while President, but considered it unproven [16a]. The recent Atlantic article states definitively that Kennedy received injections of amphetamines and painkillers from "Dr. Feelgood," a.k.a. Max Jacobson [6b]. Kennedy dismissed concerns about the injections, saying, "I don't care if it's horse piss. It works." Jacobson's medical license was revoked in 1975. Previously, in 1969, all controlled substances in his possession were confiscated by the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs [16a]. It is thought that Kennedy was under the influence of amphetamines when he made his "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech [16a].

To put things in a different light, if an officer in the U.S. Air Force were taking any one of these medications, he or she would not even be allowed to talk on the radio to aircraft as supervisor of flying. Kennedy, as commander-in-chief, was supervisor for the entire Air Force.

Sources.

Dallek, Robert. An Unfinished Life: John F. Kennedy 1917-1963. Boston: Little, Brown, 2003. ISBN 0-316-17238-3 @ Amazon

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g35.htm

[Peter McGuire]

Peter,

When it all comes out they're going to say okay now we know the truth, and as for justice, that took place at Dealey Plaza.

They're going to say justice was done.

BK

Bill , that is my concern too. I think they are preparing the public since the truth will soon be known about Dealey Plaza. Then , they are going to need an excuse. The Military Industrial Complex one isn't going to hold.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Peter McGuire