Jump to content
The Education Forum

Declassified military file


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 49
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Not sure if this is going to work. If not I sent it to John and if he wants he can post it. The picture is a Dallas FBI taken in Dallas in Novermer 63 and was located a few months ago at the DPD.

Well there it is: "Cpl" at age 18. That should shut some mouths.

Dawn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure if this is going to work. If not I sent it to John and if he wants he can post it. The picture is a Dallas FBI taken in Dallas in Novermer 63 and was located a few months ago at the DPD.

Well there it is: "Cpl" at age 18. That should shut some mouths.

Dawn

Opps, I just looked at this document again and realized that Tosh had "cpl" status in 53, so that makes him 16!!

Amazing! Now just how did he accomplish THAT???

Dawn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well there it is: "Cpl" at age 18. That should shut some mouths.

Dawn, not sure who you should shut their mouths, but for the record, I never doubted anything but the legality of a 14 year old being able to enlist. I looked into it, and found it was possible to do at that age into NG and Army Reserves. Still a convcern to me personally... but no longer a legal concern.

Opps, I just looked at this document again and realized that Tosh had "cpl" status in 53, so that makes him 16!!

Amazing! Now just how did he accomplish THAT???

Maybe the same way this guy probably did? Earned the stripes over a one or two year period? (post from google groups)

In the late '40's I was a 16 year old corporal in the Texas National

Guard. We got paid either every other month or every quarter, I forget

which now. But, to make a point about the economic impact of the guard

on the town we were paid once in silver dollars and the battery made all

of its local purchases with silver dollars. Our little town had a _lot_

of silver dollars floating around for a while.

One of the interesting byproducts of what was essentially a PR gimmick

was that it brought us a whole bunch of new enlistments.

It appears not to be entirely unheard of... though this guy did it in the NG, Tosh in the Reserves...

I also checked out his enlistment authority given on the document as "NGR 25-1". It is some type of National Guard and Army Reserves Reg. Haven't found the wording of it yet... but at a guess, I'd say it was the Reg allowing 14 years to sign up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well there it is: "Cpl" at age 18. That should shut some mouths.

Dawn, not sure who you should shut their mouths, but for the record, I never doubted anything but the legality of a 14 year old being able to enlist. I looked into it, and found it was possible to do at that age into NG and Army Reserves. Still a convcern to me personally... but no longer a legal concern.

Opps, I just looked at this document again and realized that Tosh had "cpl" status in 53, so that makes him 16!!

Amazing! Now just how did he accomplish THAT???

Maybe the same way this guy probably did? Earned the stripes over a one or two year period? (post from google groups)

In the late '40's I was a 16 year old corporal in the Texas National

Guard. We got paid either every other month or every quarter, I forget

which now. But, to make a point about the economic impact of the guard

on the town we were paid once in silver dollars and the battery made all

of its local purchases with silver dollars. Our little town had a _lot_

of silver dollars floating around for a while.

One of the interesting byproducts of what was essentially a PR gimmick

was that it brought us a whole bunch of new enlistments.

It appears not to be entirely unheard of... though this guy did it in the NG, Tosh in the Reserves...

I also checked out his enlistment authority given on the document as "NGR 25-1". It is some type of National Guard and Army Reserves Reg. Haven't found the wording of it yet... but at a guess, I'd say it was the Reg allowing 14 years to sign up.

Greg:

No one in particular, it's just that Tosh has had, over the years a lot of people call him a xxxx.

I did hear back from Walt yesterday (email) and he has some big binders in storage on Tosh, that were Jay's.

He will dig them out. (He's currently working on a massive project that is now over 5,000 pages).

Dawn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well there it is: "Cpl" at age 18. That should shut some mouths.

Dawn, not sure who you should shut their mouths, but for the record, I never doubted anything but the legality of a 14 year old being able to enlist. I looked into it, and found it was possible to do at that age into NG and Army Reserves. Still a convcern to me personally... but no longer a legal concern.

Opps, I just looked at this document again and realized that Tosh had "cpl" status in 53, so that makes him 16!!

Amazing! Now just how did he accomplish THAT???

Maybe the same way this guy probably did? Earned the stripes over a one or two year period? (post from google groups)

In the late '40's I was a 16 year old corporal in the Texas National

Guard. We got paid either every other month or every quarter, I forget

which now. But, to make a point about the economic impact of the guard

on the town we were paid once in silver dollars and the battery made all

of its local purchases with silver dollars. Our little town had a _lot_

of silver dollars floating around for a while.

One of the interesting byproducts of what was essentially a PR gimmick

was that it brought us a whole bunch of new enlistments.

It appears not to be entirely unheard of... though this guy did it in the NG, Tosh in the Reserves...

I also checked out his enlistment authority given on the document as "NGR 25-1". It is some type of National Guard and Army Reserves Reg. Haven't found the wording of it yet... but at a guess, I'd say it was the Reg allowing 14 years to sign up.

Greg;

Always nice to see that there are those who actually look into the factual aspects of ANY claims.

http://www.specialoperations.com/MACVSOG/T...Last_Patrol.htm

"in 1947 Meadows lied his age to become a 15-year-old paratrooper"

http://www.specialforces.org/sfalx/rjm.htm

"Joining the Army at the age of 15 in 1947"

There are many who entered active duty at ages far below the minimum age "requirement". (My dad included, USN/WWII).

However, most of them are not "wannabee's"!

RIP Dick

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well there it is: "Cpl" at age 18. That should shut some mouths.

Dawn, not sure who you should shut their mouths, but for the record, I never doubted anything but the legality of a 14 year old being able to enlist. I looked into it, and found it was possible to do at that age into NG and Army Reserves. Still a convcern to me personally... but no longer a legal concern.

Opps, I just looked at this document again and realized that Tosh had "cpl" status in 53, so that makes him 16!!

Amazing! Now just how did he accomplish THAT???

Maybe the same way this guy probably did? Earned the stripes over a one or two year period? (post from google groups)

In the late '40's I was a 16 year old corporal in the Texas National

Guard. We got paid either every other month or every quarter, I forget

which now. But, to make a point about the economic impact of the guard

on the town we were paid once in silver dollars and the battery made all

of its local purchases with silver dollars. Our little town had a _lot_

of silver dollars floating around for a while.

One of the interesting byproducts of what was essentially a PR gimmick

was that it brought us a whole bunch of new enlistments.

It appears not to be entirely unheard of... though this guy did it in the NG, Tosh in the Reserves...

I also checked out his enlistment authority given on the document as "NGR 25-1". It is some type of National Guard and Army Reserves Reg. Haven't found the wording of it yet... but at a guess, I'd say it was the Reg allowing 14 years to sign up.

Thats nice doing a little leg work. I'll try to help you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well there it is: "Cpl" at age 18. That should shut some mouths.

Dawn, not sure who you should shut their mouths, but for the record, I never doubted anything but the legality of a 14 year old being able to enlist. I looked into it, and found it was possible to do at that age into NG and Army Reserves. Still a convcern to me personally... but no longer a legal concern.

Opps, I just looked at this document again and realized that Tosh had "cpl" status in 53, so that makes him 16!!

Amazing! Now just how did he accomplish THAT???

Maybe the same way this guy probably did? Earned the stripes over a one or two year period? (post from google groups)

In the late '40's I was a 16 year old corporal in the Texas National

Guard. We got paid either every other month or every quarter, I forget

which now. But, to make a point about the economic impact of the guard

on the town we were paid once in silver dollars and the battery made all

of its local purchases with silver dollars. Our little town had a _lot_

of silver dollars floating around for a while.

One of the interesting byproducts of what was essentially a PR gimmick

was that it brought us a whole bunch of new enlistments.

It appears not to be entirely unheard of... though this guy did it in the NG, Tosh in the Reserves...

I also checked out his enlistment authority given on the document as "NGR 25-1". It is some type of National Guard and Army Reserves Reg. Haven't found the wording of it yet... but at a guess, I'd say it was the Reg allowing 14 years to sign up.

Greg;

Always nice to see that there are those who actually look into the factual aspects of ANY claims.

http://www.specialoperations.com/MACVSOG/T...Last_Patrol.htm

"in 1947 Meadows lied his age to become a 15-year-old paratrooper"

http://www.specialforces.org/sfalx/rjm.htm

"Joining the Army at the age of 15 in 1947"

There are many who entered active duty at ages far below the minimum age "requirement". (My dad included, USN/WWII).

However, most of them are not "wannabee's"!

RIP Dick

Tom

Tom, I'm aware of the fact that a lot of kids lied to get into the military during WWI & II and to a lesser extent, for the Korean conflict. Happened here, and probably places like New Zealand, England and Canada as well.

But this isn't the same thing. People like Tosh could join the NG or Reserves legally at 14, and I believe could then use that "prior service" to get into the Regular Army before reaching the normal age you could if just "off the street". Would have to check testimony again, but I believe John Pic got in early this way. Using this "back door" method, you would, unlike those who had lied, not be sent to a declared war zone until 18. If Tosh was in Korea prior to 18 (and I haven't seen any mention of how old he was), it was because the "conflict" was officially over - and in any case, war had never been technically declared.

Have been pondering possible reasons why, during those early years of the Cold War, those provisions for early entry existed. The most logical reason I can think of is that the Soviets had far superior numbers of ground forces. Universal Military Training was a hot topic - and in fact is what triggered the introduction of the National Security Training Corp (NSTC).

Unless Tosh was in the NSTC, OR what I've seen is wrong in regard to early entry... then I see nothing unusual in this part of his history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The corruption of innocence is the key.

It is as ancient as the scriptures.

See: Original Sin.

This may -- and I carefullly choose my word -- take us deeper than we care to go.

In My Life. I sure as hell went deeper than I wanted to go. Monday night quaterbacking did not work in my day. Sure as hell will not work today... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The corruption of innocence is the key.

It is as ancient as the scriptures.

See: Original Sin.

This may -- and I carefullly choose my word -- take us deeper than we care to go.

Charles,

If you mean by that, the inculcation of kids into Nationalism/Jingoism/Patriotism on one side and Communism on the other, then I agree about it being key.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The corruption of innocence is the key.

It is as ancient as the scriptures.

See: Original Sin.

This may -- and I carefullly choose my word -- take us deeper than we care to go.

Charles,

If you mean by that, the inculcation of kids into Nationalism/Jingoism/Patriotism on one side and Communism on the other, then I agree about it being key.

Greg,

That is precisely -- if only in part -- what I mean. Although it should be noted that inculcated allegiance to communism is rooted in cynical manipulation of the same tribalism/xenophobia from which patriotism springs.

But I fear there is an even more sinister purpose behind this abuse of the innocent, one that transcends materialist agendas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well there it is: "Cpl" at age 18. That should shut some mouths.

Dawn, not sure who you should shut their mouths, but for the record, I never doubted anything but the legality of a 14 year old being able to enlist. I looked into it, and found it was possible to do at that age into NG and Army Reserves. Still a convcern to me personally... but no longer a legal concern.

Opps, I just looked at this document again and realized that Tosh had "cpl" status in 53, so that makes him 16!!

Amazing! Now just how did he accomplish THAT???

Maybe the same way this guy probably did? Earned the stripes over a one or two year period? (post from google groups)

In the late '40's I was a 16 year old corporal in the Texas National

Guard. We got paid either every other month or every quarter, I forget

which now. But, to make a point about the economic impact of the guard

on the town we were paid once in silver dollars and the battery made all

of its local purchases with silver dollars. Our little town had a _lot_

of silver dollars floating around for a while.

One of the interesting byproducts of what was essentially a PR gimmick

was that it brought us a whole bunch of new enlistments.

It appears not to be entirely unheard of... though this guy did it in the NG, Tosh in the Reserves...

I also checked out his enlistment authority given on the document as "NGR 25-1". It is some type of National Guard and Army Reserves Reg. Haven't found the wording of it yet... but at a guess, I'd say it was the Reg allowing 14 years to sign up.

Greg;

Always nice to see that there are those who actually look into the factual aspects of ANY claims.

http://www.specialoperations.com/MACVSOG/T...Last_Patrol.htm

"in 1947 Meadows lied his age to become a 15-year-old paratrooper"

http://www.specialforces.org/sfalx/rjm.htm

"Joining the Army at the age of 15 in 1947"

There are many who entered active duty at ages far below the minimum age "requirement". (My dad included, USN/WWII).

However, most of them are not "wannabee's"!

RIP Dick

Tom

Tom, I'm aware of the fact that a lot of kids lied to get into the military during WWI & II and to a lesser extent, for the Korean conflict. Happened here, and probably places like New Zealand, England and Canada as well.

But this isn't the same thing. People like Tosh could join the NG or Reserves legally at 14, and I believe could then use that "prior service" to get into the Regular Army before reaching the normal age you could if just "off the street". Would have to check testimony again, but I believe John Pic got in early this way. Using this "back door" method, you would, unlike those who had lied, not be sent to a declared war zone until 18. If Tosh was in Korea prior to 18 (and I haven't seen any mention of how old he was), it was because the "conflict" was officially over - and in any case, war had never been technically declared.

Have been pondering possible reasons why, during those early years of the Cold War, those provisions for early entry existed. The most logical reason I can think of is that the Soviets had far superior numbers of ground forces. Universal Military Training was a hot topic - and in fact is what triggered the introduction of the National Security Training Corp (NSTC).

Unless Tosh was in the NSTC, OR what I've seen is wrong in regard to early entry... then I see nothing unusual in this part of his history.

" then I see nothing unusual in this part of his history"

And, in that regards, you are in possession of far better "vision" than most!

Army Enlisted PREFIXES:

1. NG = National Guard Service*

2. US = Army of the United States (AUS) (prefix given to draftees of two years active duty)

3. RA = Regular Army, aka those who initially inlist for a minimum of three years service, and/or re-enlist after expiration of initial service term. (IE: Drafted for two years = AUS Serial Number. Voluntary re=enlistment after having served intiial two year service, changed one's prefix to RA)

4. USAR = United States Army Reserve (USAR). Assignment in a Reserve Component.

*The NG is actually a "Reserve Component" of the Army. Merely that it falls under the command of the Governor of the specific state in which formed, and must be "Nationalized" by order of the President in order for it to become a part of the national fighting force.

The "Classified" file, as presented, is nothing more than a record of prior service which was completed at the time that the applicant attempted to "re-enter" service in the National Guard of the State of Texas.

And in that regards, one can not tell from the application form if the re-entry is into the National Guard was even accepted.

However! From review, one can state that:

1.On 9 February, 1955, William Robert Plumlee apparantly made some attempt to re-enlist into the Texas National Guard for a period of 3 years.

2. During the period of 22 October 1952 to 8 February 1953, the applicate served in the National Guard and his service number was 25926077*

*Actual service number would have been NG25926077

================================================================================

National Guard Service constitutes attending Guard Drills for two weekends (Saturday & Sunday) per month, plus 2 full weeks of training during the summer. (Summer Camp).

Thusly, at most, this service would have constituted some 8 to 10 days of actual duty in which one wore the uniform and attended Guard Drills.

================================================================================

3. That, on/or about 8 February 1953, the applicant was released from the National Guard due to "Minority". AKA having been found to be underage for even National Guard Service. (

Some 8-months later:

4. That, on/or about 28 September 1953 (some 7+ months after having been released from the National Guard Commitment) the applicant re-entered the military service by having joined a "Reserve Component" of the Army, and thereafter served in this Reserve Component assignment until 2 March 1954, at which time the applicant was released from (Reserve Component) service due to having been found to be underage. )"Minority". (again found to have been underage and thusly released from service)

================================================================================

It is specifically noted that the enlistment into the USAR (Reserve Component) was a fraudulent enlistment, in that the enlistee did not list his "prior" service in the National Guard.

This was quite obviously NOT DONE as this prior NG Service would have demonstrated that the applicant was underage.

When one enlists and/or is was drafted into any component of the Armed Forces of the US Army, they were assigned an "Enlisted" service number which followed them around throughout ALL of their service career.

Therefore, had the applicant demonstrated, during the enlistment into the USAR, that he had prior service, then his military service/serial number would have remained his old National Guard serial number, with a new prefix.

Otherwise, he military service could never keep up with anyone and/or there actual time in service.

Factual Example:

Tom Purvis:---Mississippi National Guard-------SN#: NG24924686

Tom Purvis:---Volunteered, enlisted active duty for three years-----SN#: RA24924686

The "Serial/Service" number for enlisted personell DOES NOT CHANGE, only the PREFIX for the Component Force (NG/USAR/US/RA) changes.

Thusly, at the time of the second attempt to join the military forces, the applicant DID NOT list his prior service in the National Guard as had he done so, then his service number would have remained his old NG Service Number and he would not have been assigned the new Service Number/Serial Number of 18389060, which it is also noted also followed the applicant when he actually did serve on active duty.

================================================================================

5. On 3 March 1954, after having utilized the USAR (Reserve Component) as a "stepping stone" into active duty, the applicant was assigned to active duty in the US Army.

Thereafter, on 2 July, 1954, the applicant was released from active duty in the US Army due to "Minority".

================================================================================

In other words, some 4-months after having entered active military duty, the applicant was found to have been underage and was dismissed from active duty for this cause.

Birth Date: 25 Nov 1937

Release from Service date: 2 Jul 1954

Age at release from active duty Service: 16 years, 8 months, & 23 days.

NOTE:

USAR release from service.

The "underage" release from service becomes a part of one's permanent military record.

If one is released from the NG for this reason and thereafter attempts to re-enlist into either the Reserves or active duty utilizing their original Service Number, (lists their prior service), then this record would be immediately found and one would not be allowed to enlist.

Additionally, at that time in history, one had a 6-year military obligation in which it was required to serve a full 2-years in some form of "active duty" and 4-years in some form of inactive reserve component.

Thusly, when the applicant was "released" from active duty for "Minorty"/being underage, this release would have been transferred to whatever Reserve Component he was assigned to, and he would have also been released from Reserve Status at the exact same time.

1. In 6-years of committment to the National Guard, one, through weekend drills and two-week summer camp, serves two years of active duty and four years of inactive (assigned on paperwork) reserve service.

2. In being drafted, one served two years of active duty, and was thereafter assigned to an "Inactive Reserve" unit for four additional years. And, although no attendance at any active duty was required, were it that the Unit was activated, then the individual was subject to recall to active duty as well.

3. The "Active Reserve" (Now referred to as Ready Reserve) unit was somewhat like the National Guard in that one joined this unit and thereafter was required to attend "Summer Camp", etc; to the extent of having completed two years of active duty during the six year period of enlistment.

Tom Purvis

NG 24924686 Enlisted Service, Mississippi National Guard

RA 24924686 Enlisted Service, volunteer active duty for 3-years, United States Army

O 427500 (Officer, United States Army)

http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...ames;read=48198

Dallas History Message Board

Re: Abandoned Airports

Posted By: William Plumlee <wplumlee2006@yahoo.com>

Date: Wednesday, 17 May 2006, at 11:31 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (Cee Cee)

I took flying lessons at White Rock Aviation in 1953. "Smitty" was my flight instructor. I soloed at White Rock in June of 53. Dave Ferris and I used to fly the old 'underpowered' Steerman with its Continual 220 engine that Pappy Reeves (I think owned) The Devil's Speedway was racing a "figure 8" type race and I would forward slip my J-3 Cub over the track and land on the dirt strip at White Rock. I worked as a engine rebuild mech at Southwest Airmotive night shift Dallas love Field as a young lad of 14-15 while going to Alex W Spence Jr.High in Dallas. I also refueled aircraft at Dallas Aero Service and cleaned the hanger when I was 14. I would wash the airplanes and clean the windows for free rides in the Loadstar C-60's. I remember when an American Airline DC-4 I think crashed into Dallas Aviation School next to Dallas Aero Service. I went and poked around the weckage. I think this was about 1949 or 50 (could have been as early as 1948. I used to ride my bike to love Field from north Dallas and play in the old WW-2 B-17's aircraft parked at Henery Seal Aviation. Years later I became a pilot for Riddle Airlines of Miami and also with Inter-Mountain, Midland, SAT and a host of other government funded airlines of the sixties. In 1963 I flew into Red Bird airport from Garland airport on the day Kennedy was assassinated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...