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I'm more interested in why Thomas and with the [i believe] wink and nod, if the prod of GPH [iMO] is posting to try to discredit Plumlee.

I apologize if I am reading this incorrectly,but it looks like someone is saying that Tom Purvis is a sock puppet. I can't think of anything further from the truth. Purvis is NO ONE's sock puppet. I am laughing thinking about it.

Right or wrong, he is his own person.

Not everyone who disagrees is on the other side or out to get someone. We get to the truth by asking questions. The way we ask them is unique to each of us. You can read a post here, and almost guess, if you didn't know, who the poster really was.

A debate can be a wonderful learning tool for those who participate. We learn much from the opponent, and many times it gives us pause to rethink our position, or reinforce it. To label someone just because they don't agree, or imply that they are allied with the "dark side" is counterproductive, and, this, IMO, is what creates the bickering on the boards.

Purvis is NO ONE's sock puppet. I am laughing thinking about it.

I thought that I heard someone else laughing!

But then again, just passed it off as senile dementia!

Application of seperate and independent thought will be the only key to unraveling the Warren Commission lies, and such thought will not occur so long as one "chases" the mythological stories of those who would mislead.

Therefore, ANYONE who misrepresents themselves in order to convince others of the validity of their theory, etc;, is subject to, and should be openly revealed.

As to my association (or lack thereof) with GPH, if one will check back in history they will find that even GPH was under the misconceived idea that there were multiple assassins in Dealy Plaza.

Personally, I am under the impression that GPH may possess some personal knowledge of many of those "characters" who are in this event. Especially Wm Pawley, and possible a few others.

So much of this "tie" information has been lost throughout the years due to the deaths (accidential/natural/un-natural) of many of the players. It is therefore critical that whatever remaining knowledge of these persons be openly preserved and presented.

In that regards, I have not only urged GPH to reveal what he knows, but have also attempted to get the JFK Center Historian to interview him and thusly "get it into the record" if possible.

The possibility exists that the "key" to making the connections between the Pawley; Martino; New Orleans, etc; group which were behind LHO's actions, may still exist, and if so then one should welcome any opportunity to get this into the record before it is in fact forever lost.

GPH is "welcomed" among the true SF/SOF Warriors who remain around Bragg, as he has actually (of record) been involved with such things.

And, many of 2506 as well as their "Son's" have and continue to serve within these groupings, and consider GPH as almost one of their own.

Lastly, despite what anyone may say to the contrary, this remains the "EDUCATION" forum, and its discussions; arguments; etc; remain far and above what one will find on either Lancer and/or the McAdams sites.

There are many here such as yourself who are not willing to be "lead by the nose" by any of us and our rantings.

That, believe it or not, is all that anyone should be willing to ask for!

And, in that regard, I often receive emails from those who are Pillars of the true/factual research community, and they frequently visit this forum for their own extension of knowledge.

Might I also add that you have demonstrated yourself to be a credit to this forum!

Tom Purvis

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I'm more interested in why Thomas and with the [i believe] wink and nod, if the prod of GPH [iMO] is posting to try to discredit Plumlee.

I apologize if I am reading this incorrectly,but it looks like someone is saying that Tom Purvis is a sock puppet. I can't think of anything further from the truth. Purvis is NO ONE's sock puppet. I am laughing thinking about it.

Right or wrong, he is his own person.

Not everyone who disagrees is on the other side or out to get someone. We get to the truth by asking questions. The way we ask them is unique to each of us. You can read a post here, and almost guess, if you didn't know, who the poster really was.

A debate can be a wonderful learning tool for those who participate. We learn much from the opponent, and many times it gives us pause to rethink our position, or reinforce it. To label someone just because they don't agree, or imply that they are allied with the "dark side" is counterproductive, and, this, IMO, is what creates the bickering on the boards.

Purvis is NO ONE's sock puppet. I am laughing thinking about it.

I thought that I heard someone else laughing!

But then again, just passed it off as senile dementia!

Application of seperate and independent thought will be the only key to unraveling the Warren Commission lies, and such thought will not occur so long as one "chases" the mythological stories of those who would mislead.

Therefore, ANYONE who misrepresents themselves in order to convince others of the validity of their theory, etc;, is subject to, and should be openly revealed.

As to my association (or lack thereof) with GPH, if one will check back in history they will find that even GPH was under the misconceived idea that there were multiple assassins in Dealy Plaza.

Personally, I am under the impression that GPH may possess some personal knowledge of many of those "characters" who are in this event. Especially Wm Pawley, and possible a few others.

So much of this "tie" information has been lost throughout the years due to the deaths (accidential/natural/un-natural) of many of the players. It is therefore critical that whatever remaining knowledge of these persons be openly preserved and presented.

In that regards, I have not only urged GPH to reveal what he knows, but have also attempted to get the JFK Center Historian to interview him and thusly "get it into the record" if possible.

The possibility exists that the "key" to making the connections between the Pawley; Martino; New Orleans, etc; group which were behind LHO's actions, may still exist, and if so then one should welcome any opportunity to get this into the record before it is in fact forever lost.

GPH is "welcomed" among the true SF/SOF Warriors who remain around Bragg, as he has actually (of record) been involved with such things.

And, many of 2506 as well as their "Son's" have and continue to serve within these groupings, and consider GPH as almost one of their own.

Lastly, despite what anyone may say to the contrary, this remains the "EDUCATION" forum, and its discussions; arguments; etc; remain far and above what one will find on either Lancer and/or the McAdams sites.

There are many here such as yourself who are not willing to be "lead by the nose" by any of us and our rantings.

That, believe it or not, is all that anyone should be willing to ask for!

And, in that regard, I often receive emails from those who are Pillars of the true/factual research community, and they frequently visit this forum for their own extension of knowledge.

Might I also add that you have demonstrated yourself to be a credit to this forum!

Tom Purvis

Even Dorothy knew to stay on the "yellow" brick road and avoid those "rabbit holes" which had confused and consumed Alice.

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================================================================================

5. On 3 March 1954, after having utilized the USAR (Reserve Component) as a "stepping stone" into active duty, the applicant was assigned to active duty in the US Army.

Thereafter, on 2 July, 1954, the applicant was released from active duty in the US Army due to "Minority".

================================================================================

And, in that regards: "Enlisted 4 ?TG", as a general rule, meant that the individual had volunteered for "Active Duty for Training"

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/g/actdutr.htm

Definition: (DOD) A tour of active duty which is used for training members of the Reserve Components to provide trained units and qualified persons to fill the needs of the Armed Forces in time of war or national emergency and such other times as the national security requires. The member is under orders which provide for return to non-active status when the period of active duty for training is completed. It includes annual training, special tours of active duty for training, school tours, and the initial duty for training performed by nonprior service enlistees.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0006

http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/p_mos.htm

Basic trainee – 0006

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.440.com/twtd/archives/feb02.html

1959

(“Fee fee fi fi fo fo fum. I smell smoke in the auditorium...”),

*****************************************************************

http://www.440.com/twtd/archives/feb02.html

"1959 - The Coasters tune, "Charlie Brown", was released. The tune went to #2 and stayed there for three weeks, but didn’t make it to the top spot of the charts. A catchy song (“Fee fee fi fi fo fo fum. I smell smoke in the auditorium...”), it was on the charts for a total of 12 weeks. And what song was at number one, preventing "Charlie Brown" from reaching the top, you ask? "Venus", by Frankie Avalon."

O.K. So, the lyrics go:

"Fee Fee Fi Fi Fo Fo Fum...I smell smoke in the auditorium.

Charley Brown, he's a clown...He's a clown, that Charley Brown."

What kind of code are you trying to run down, Purv? How about giving this dummy a leg up on what you mean?

Are you intimating that Plumlee is a clown?

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies10.htm

Military Veteran Phony Tests

Reprinted with permission of author ex-POW

Honorable Thomas Collins III, USAF RET

Captured 10/18/65

Released 02/12/73.

The following are proven indicator test for phony or bogus military/veteran stories,

persons, publications, audio-visual presentation, speakers, etc.

"IT" refers to person making a claim or to the story being told.

1. IT is dependent on belief in a secret duty or mission which is so confidential that no record exists and "if I told you I would have to then shoot you; then myself"; but they go on to tell anyway being

careful not to tell anything which could be used for easy verification.

2. IT is based on obscure, little known, or mysterious circumstances, events, locations, and organizations. Other people in the story are usually "they" and you never know who "they" are.

3. IT is based on or requires belief in some bizarre grand and incredible, usually evil, conspiracy. Remember, the only thing "grand or incredible" about such conspiracies is how false, fabricated, and unfounded they are.

4. IT claims mysterious, powerful influences, contacts, and connections. Usually "they" is used but often "name dropping" of well known persons such as public officials who are reluctant to deny they know someone.

5. IT is a "loner" and there is no one else around such as old army buddies who know the person or the story, i.e., seems to have no old friends from the past. Yet, IT is very able and willing to make new

friends, tell the story, and join groups such as veterans' organizations.

6. IT is infatuated or infected with heroic, bizarre, and mysterious "war stories" and symbols of glory such as: claims of revered, respected deeds and duty; awards and metals; and titles of position.

7. IT is directly or indirectly seeking, soliciting, or being willing to accept money or gratuities such as: fund raising; selling books or tapes; receiving paid travel; and seeking esteemed status of some nature based on the extraordinary story.

8. IT has no documentation, avoids the subject of documentation, or has some excuse as to why documentation does not exist or is not available in situations where IT is normally expected or required.

9. IT has documentation too readily available and too anxious to present IT and have IT accepted especially in situations where documentation is not expected or required. This is the "I know you don't believe me but I can prove it" syndrome. Such documentation is often bogus, falsified, or

forged. Typical examples are: DD 214's (military discharge), awards and honors, appointment letters, and memberships in something that sounds good but is not commonly known.

10. IT seems just too unusual, heroic, or meritorious to be true. Just like in consumer and investment advise: "If IT sounds too good to be true IT usually is. "

If IT fails any one of these tests there is room for caution, suspicion, and further investigation. If any two or more tests are failed stop right there; you already know the answer.

The basic principals of these tests can also be used to detect phonies, frauds, and bogus schemes in many other situations and environments.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies.htm

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This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

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This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/

I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life.....

Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life

How true!

The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities.

Now!

The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks).

First off:

The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is:

Declassified military file

The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #22

I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons.

-------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

--------------------------------------

I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #20

Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court.

As well as the "Probation" question block?

Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956.

However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM?

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This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/

I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life.....

Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life

How true!

The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities.

Now!

The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks).

First off:

The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is:

Declassified military file

The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #22

I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons.

-------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

--------------------------------------

I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #20

Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court.

As well as the "Probation" question block?

Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956.

However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM?

Your nit-picking on this one issue doens't hide IMO you larger mission of trying to discredit Plumlee for more significant things he did later on - I'd suggest people not be fooled by what is rather transparently going on here. Again, it is what you don't discuss and address I find more significant that the minor points you try to score.

Peter:

If you'd just ignore this bs perhaps it might stop. Don't feed it.

The "ignore" feature works wonders. Hmmmmmm

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This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/

I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life.....

Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life

How true!

The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities.

Now!

The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks).

First off:

The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is:

Declassified military file

The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #22

I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons.

-------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

--------------------------------------

I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #20

Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court.

As well as the "Probation" question block?

Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956.

However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM?

Your nit-picking on this one issue doens't hide IMO you larger mission of trying to discredit Plumlee for more significant things he did later on - I'd suggest people not be fooled by what is rather transparently going on here. Again, it is what you don't discuss and address I find more significant that the minor points you try to score.

Post #20 Jan 27 2008 ".....Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civilian Court. As well as the "Probation" question block? Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956. However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, HMMMMMMMMMMM?....".

End of quote

XXXX

Peter: Do not lower yourself to reply. Its a setup. The Facts speak for themselves:

FACTS DOCUMENTED IN POST BY PLUMLEE ON THIS FORUM:

1. FACT: I was in the Texas National Guard in 1952 and I was 14 years of age.

2. FACT : I was on 4 years federal probation at the time I went into the Texas National Guard.

3. FACT; I was still on federal probation at the time I went into the US regular Army,

4. FACT; I was still on federal probation when I went in the U.S Army reserve in Dallas Texas.

5. FACT: I held the rank of Cpl at the age of 16.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

7. FACT: The juvenile file of Oct of 1952 (14 years of age) was SEALED by the court as required by law and the facts of the case were sealed.. (4 years federal probation and an agreement to enter the Texas National Guard as agreed to by the court on Oct 22 1952 as agreed to by my parents, the court, and the Texas National Guard. My probation office was a Mr Nolette of Tyler Texas and he worked my case with the United States Army.

8. FACT: The Juvenile file was unsealed in 1955 at the request of the Federal Government and the US military. The unsealed court records were sanitized by the CIA.

Note an sealed court case unsealed by the court, is not sanitized. It was sanitized later by the federal governments as to agreements to protect methods and procedures and a CIA private government training operation.

FACT: I was released from federal probation early (while I was in the US Army Reserve at Dallas Texas as requested by Capt Edward G Seiwell my CO at the time) The Court approved this formal request (found within the sanitized Pages of the probation report and court records and summations)..

9. FACT: How would anyone know what is in the sanitized pages document, except me, my mother, who is still alive at 90, and my family?

10. FACT How could a statement be made that it did not happen because the sealed court document can not be read or say it had?...How would anyone know what it said? All the pages as to any agreements and terms of the court are blacked (sanitized) out in its entirety. However, the statement below was made to infer I was not being truthful and too, I had fabricated my military service and the reasons I was in the military in the first place, as well as my being on four years federal probation at the time.

Previous quote by forum member: ".... the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures. ..". Reference to Post of: Jan. 20,2008

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Note; It was implied I was not injured and had faked the VA claim and the American tax payer was giving me a free ride at their expense. ( no reference ony a negative opinion)

13. FACT: In 1955 I went to work for the first of many CIA front companies as a aircraft flight mechanic for companies which were not even know about until 1970. Example; Regina Air Cargo, Riddle Airlines, Southwest Airmotive, and others. (As noted in FBI CIA FOIA declassified releases)

Again I state how could this be...? Was there help from the United States Government at the highest levels? Was the United States Government recruiting young troubled men who were bound for jail into a specialized military training program in the 1950's?. I say, Yes, they were.

I say they were and I have attempted to back up what I say with documentation which has recently been declassified and released. The information and documentation I have posted has been twisted, slanted, implied, infered and used to discredit me and my story and the Facts thereof. Some have attempted to mis lead members of this forum.., pulling and drawing them away from the truth and the facts of my statements.

For some, to say this did not happen, because some believe it did not happen, is not research. I posted what I believe and know, only to help the members of this forum.., and I tried to document what I said the best I could.

I have received absolutely No support from the Forum moderators when some have implied that I am a xxxx, a fabricator, and untruthful person When they post derogatory statements with absolutely no documentation that relates directly to my case, statements, and allegations. They post their opinions as Facts and manipulated the truth.

If I had done the same to these members, then I feel I would be, chastised, warned, and perhaps my posting privileges suspended. I see this as a ‘Slanted Forum' special interest, and working for the MAN." I see, and feel, this Forum has lost its objectiveness in its quest for information and truth which might be related to the JFK Assassination and those responsible.

I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, because they know I know what they are and can prove it. However, this is not why I post on this forum or the subject matter I post. I am not interested in those type of people. I too, have real questions about JFK and that day. And I too, could learn. I have never said I know everything that happened that day. I have only said I know some things. I have asked for help from others but I get no respond, except from those who still feel they have all the answers and people like me do not know anything, or even exist... BUT if we do exist then we are LIARS, Fabricators, and untruthful people. They have to cover themselves at the expense of truth and facts. Because some of us are still alive and know their deeds and their fabrications and that they were never in the ‘Ball Park". Never a player. They are poor lost souls who never made the grade..., and for that they can not forgive themselves.

Edited by William Plumlee
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This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/

I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life.....

Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life

How true!

The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities.

Now!

The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks).

First off:

The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is:

Declassified military file

The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #22

I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons.

-------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

--------------------------------------

I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #20

Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court.

As well as the "Probation" question block?

Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956.

However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM?

Your nit-picking on this one issue doens't hide IMO you larger mission of trying to discredit Plumlee for more significant things he did later on - I'd suggest people not be fooled by what is rather transparently going on here. Again, it is what you don't discuss and address I find more significant that the minor points you try to score.

Post #20 Jan 27 2008 ".....Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civilian Court. As well as the "Probation" question block? Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956. However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, HMMMMMMMMMMM?....".

End of quote

XXXX

Peter: Do not lower yourself to reply. Its a setup. The Facts speak for themselves:

FACTS DOCUMENTED IN POST BY PLUMLEE ON THIS FORUM:

1. FACT: I was in the Texas National Guard in 1952 and I was 14 years of age.

2. FACT : I was on 4 years federal probation at the time I went into the Texas National Guard.

3. FACT; I was still on federal probation at the time I went into the US regular Army,

4. FACT; I was still on federal probation when I went in the U.S Army reserve in Dallas Texas.

5. FACT: I held the rank of Cpl at the age of 16.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

7. FACT: The juvenile file of Oct of 1952 (14 years of age) was SEALED by the court as required by law and the facts of the case were sealed.. (4 years federal probation and an agreement to enter the Texas National Guard as agreed to by the court on Oct 22 1952 as agreed to by my parents, the court, and the Texas National Guard. My probation office was a Mr Nolette of Tyler Texas and he worked my case with the United States Army.

8. FACT: The Juvenile file was unsealed in 1955 at the request of the Federal Government and the US military. The unsealed court records were sanitized by the CIA.

Note an sealed court case unsealed by the court, is not sanitized. It was sanitized later by the federal governments as to agreements to protect methods and procedures and a CIA private government training operation.

FACT: I was released from federal probation early (while I was in the US Army Reserve at Dallas Texas as requested by Capt Edward G Seiwell my CO at the time) The Court approved this formal request (found within the sanitized Pages of the probation report and court records and summations)..

9. FACT: How would anyone know what is in the sanitized pages document, except me, my mother, who is still alive at 90, and my family?

10. FACT How could a statement be made that it did not happen because the sealed court document can not be read or say it had?...How would anyone know what it said? All the pages as to any agreements and terms of the court are blacked (sanitized) out in its entirety. However, the statement below was made to infer I was not being truthful and too, I had fabricated my military service and the reasons I was in the military in the first place, as well as my being on four years federal probation at the time.

Previous quote by forum member: ".... the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures. ..". Reference to Post of: Jan. 20,2008

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Note; It was implied I was not injured and had faked the VA claim and the American tax payer was giving me a free ride at their expense. ( no reference ony a negative opinion)

13. FACT: In 1955 I went to work for the first of many CIA front companies as a aircraft flight mechanic for companies which were not even know about until 1970. Example; Regina Air Cargo, Riddle Airlines, Southwest Airmotive, and others. (As noted in FBI CIA FOIA declassified releases)

Again I state how could this be...? Was there help from the United States Government at the highest levels? Was the United States Government recruiting young troubled men who were bound for jail into a specialized military training program in the 1950's?. I say, Yes, they were.

I say they were and I have attempted to back up what I say with documentation which has recently been declassified and released. The information and documentation I have posted has been twisted, slanted, implied, infered and used to discredit me and my story and the Facts thereof. Some have attempted to mis lead members of this forum.., pulling and drawing them away from the truth and the facts of my statements.

For some, to say this did not happen, because some believe it did not happen, is not research. I posted what I believe and know, only to help the members of this forum.., and I tried to document what I said the best I could.

I have received absolutely No support from the Forum moderators when some have implied that I am a xxxx, a fabricator, and untruthful person When they post derogatory statements with absolutely no documentation that relates directly to my case, statements, and allegations. They post their opinions as Facts and manipulated the truth.

If I had done the same to these members, then I feel I would be, chastised, warned, and perhaps my posting privileges suspended. I see this as a ‘Slanted Forum' special interest, and working for the MAN." I see, and feel, this Forum has lost its objectiveness in its quest for information and truth which might be related to the JFK Assassination and those responsible.

I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, because they know I know what they are and can prove it. However, this is not why I post on this forum or the subject matter I post. I am not interested in those type of people. I too, have real questions about JFK and that day. And I too, could learn. I have never said I know everything that happened that day. I have only said I know some things. I have asked for help from others but I get no respond, except from those who still feel they have all the answers and people like me do not know anything, or even exist... BUT if we do exist then we are LIARS, Fabricators, and untruthful people. They have to cover themselves at the expense of truth and facts. Because some of us are still alive and know their deeds and their fabrications and that they were never in the ‘Ball Park". Never a player. They are poor lost souls who never made the grade..., and for that they can not forgive themselves.

"I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, "

As a general rule, one only gets to actually "die" one single time.

One can however, for benefit of publicity or whatever, fake their deaths many times.

So! You served in the National Guard, and were shortly thereafter dismissed due to "Minority"/aka the Guard having found that you were underage.

Thereafter, you managed to enlist into the Army Reserves, and from there went into active duty. Where again, you were dismised do to Minority, which also effectively dismissed you from the USAR as well.

However, while on active duty, by your own accounts, you were run over by a jeep, and :

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

In addition:

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Perhaps you would be good enough to indicate exactly WHERE on your DD214 it indicates that you received a "service related" gunshot injury.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

There is no "MOS of 006"!

The military designation of '0006" represents that you were a "Basic Trainee". One does not receive their "MOS" until such time as they have completed the next 8 to 9 weeks of training which constitutes Advanced Individual Training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States..._Basic_Training

Basic Training is divided into two parts: Basic Combat Training (BCT) and Advanced Individual Training (AIT).

Basic Combat Training, or BCT, consists of the first 9 weeks of the total Basic Training period. It is identical for all Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard recruits.

Advanced Individual Training, or AIT, consists of the remainder of the total Basic Training period. It is where recruits train to eventually become experts in their chosen field, and it is therefore different for each available Army career path.

Advanced Individual Training

Advanced Individual Training, or AIT, is where new soldiers receive specific training in their chosen MOS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_MOS

Additionally! Under the assumption that you actually completed Basic and AIT training and were awarded the MOS of Tank Driver/aka Tank Crewman, then the MOS would have been MOS 3795, NOT MOS 1795.

The MOS 1795 was reserved for the senior ranking members of the Tank Crew and you would not have been awarded this MOS directly out of AIT/Advanced Individual Training.

Tank crewman – 3795

Tank driver – 3795

--------------------------------

Tank ammunition section chief – 1795

Tank commander – 1795

Tank first sergeant – 1795

Tank leader – 1795

Tank platoon sergeant – 1795

http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/p_mos.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now! Were one to assume and accept that you did in fact complete the 8 to 9 weeks of Basic Training as well as the 8 additional weeks of AIT to get the MOS of a Tank Driver, then that comes to about 16 to 17 weeks of training/aka 4-months.

Thereafter, there is absolutely nothing in regards to any additional "training" which you either received or were engaged in which would have given you any form of "covert" operations and/or classified training training.

Personally, I could care less as to whether you drove a tank or a submarine.

Had you, (and your record most definitely does not reflect so) completed any complete assignment/tour of duty with the National Guard; the USAR; Active Duty; or any combination thereof, then you would have done more than many.

In addition, you have sought to present that during this completely lack-luster EXTREMELY short period of service in the NG; the USAR; and/or Active Army, that you received some sort of clandestine training which prepared you for CIA operative work.

And, I adamantly state that this is pure BS!

Your own presented documents demonstrate that you were a Private E-1 when you first entered active duty.

That, upon your "Minority" release from Active Duty Service, you had served a sum total of 4-months and 1-day of actual credited active service time, and this included your NG (0 days) USAR (0 days) and Active Duty (4-months& 1-day) time.

Which, just so happens to be about the amount of time required for one to actually complete Basic and Advanced Individual Training and actually gain a true MOS.

Therefore, a prudent person just might ask exactly when was it that you attended these "covert operative" schoolings run by the Military/aka Army, and were they attended on your own time to the extent that you did not even receive credit for time served, which also is a principal requirement for promotions and for pay purpose calculations?

Your "credibility" and/or lack thereof in attempting to present that you have had some great "secret" training and were thusly a operative of the CIA, leads directly to your credibility and/or lack thereof in whether anything you say relative to the JFK assassination has credence.

Unfortunately, irrelevant as to credibility, prior history has well established that many will believe about anything on the subject of the JFK assassination.

Which unfortunately has brought about that no one of any sensibility will pay a lot of attention to any claims on the subject, irrelevant as to whether factual or not.

Hopefully, these little discussions and/or revelations will at least forwarn many prior to their diving off headfirst into this newly presented rabbit hole.

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This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/

I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life.....

Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life

How true!

The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities.

Now!

The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks).

First off:

The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is:

Declassified military file

The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #22

I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons.

-------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

--------------------------------------

I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #20

Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court.

As well as the "Probation" question block?

Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956.

However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM?

Your nit-picking on this one issue doens't hide IMO you larger mission of trying to discredit Plumlee for more significant things he did later on - I'd suggest people not be fooled by what is rather transparently going on here. Again, it is what you don't discuss and address I find more significant that the minor points you try to score.

Post #20 Jan 27 2008 ".....Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civilian Court. As well as the "Probation" question block? Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956. However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, HMMMMMMMMMMM?....".

End of quote

XXXX

Peter: Do not lower yourself to reply. Its a setup. The Facts speak for themselves:

FACTS DOCUMENTED IN POST BY PLUMLEE ON THIS FORUM:

1. FACT: I was in the Texas National Guard in 1952 and I was 14 years of age.

2. FACT : I was on 4 years federal probation at the time I went into the Texas National Guard.

3. FACT; I was still on federal probation at the time I went into the US regular Army,

4. FACT; I was still on federal probation when I went in the U.S Army reserve in Dallas Texas.

5. FACT: I held the rank of Cpl at the age of 16.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

7. FACT: The juvenile file of Oct of 1952 (14 years of age) was SEALED by the court as required by law and the facts of the case were sealed.. (4 years federal probation and an agreement to enter the Texas National Guard as agreed to by the court on Oct 22 1952 as agreed to by my parents, the court, and the Texas National Guard. My probation office was a Mr Nolette of Tyler Texas and he worked my case with the United States Army.

8. FACT: The Juvenile file was unsealed in 1955 at the request of the Federal Government and the US military. The unsealed court records were sanitized by the CIA.

Note an sealed court case unsealed by the court, is not sanitized. It was sanitized later by the federal governments as to agreements to protect methods and procedures and a CIA private government training operation.

FACT: I was released from federal probation early (while I was in the US Army Reserve at Dallas Texas as requested by Capt Edward G Seiwell my CO at the time) The Court approved this formal request (found within the sanitized Pages of the probation report and court records and summations)..

9. FACT: How would anyone know what is in the sanitized pages document, except me, my mother, who is still alive at 90, and my family?

10. FACT How could a statement be made that it did not happen because the sealed court document can not be read or say it had?...How would anyone know what it said? All the pages as to any agreements and terms of the court are blacked (sanitized) out in its entirety. However, the statement below was made to infer I was not being truthful and too, I had fabricated my military service and the reasons I was in the military in the first place, as well as my being on four years federal probation at the time.

Previous quote by forum member: ".... the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures. ..". Reference to Post of: Jan. 20,2008

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Note; It was implied I was not injured and had faked the VA claim and the American tax payer was giving me a free ride at their expense. ( no reference ony a negative opinion)

13. FACT: In 1955 I went to work for the first of many CIA front companies as a aircraft flight mechanic for companies which were not even know about until 1970. Example; Regina Air Cargo, Riddle Airlines, Southwest Airmotive, and others. (As noted in FBI CIA FOIA declassified releases)

Again I state how could this be...? Was there help from the United States Government at the highest levels? Was the United States Government recruiting young troubled men who were bound for jail into a specialized military training program in the 1950's?. I say, Yes, they were.

I say they were and I have attempted to back up what I say with documentation which has recently been declassified and released. The information and documentation I have posted has been twisted, slanted, implied, infered and used to discredit me and my story and the Facts thereof. Some have attempted to mis lead members of this forum.., pulling and drawing them away from the truth and the facts of my statements.

For some, to say this did not happen, because some believe it did not happen, is not research. I posted what I believe and know, only to help the members of this forum.., and I tried to document what I said the best I could.

I have received absolutely No support from the Forum moderators when some have implied that I am a xxxx, a fabricator, and untruthful person When they post derogatory statements with absolutely no documentation that relates directly to my case, statements, and allegations. They post their opinions as Facts and manipulated the truth.

If I had done the same to these members, then I feel I would be, chastised, warned, and perhaps my posting privileges suspended. I see this as a 'Slanted Forum' special interest, and working for the MAN." I see, and feel, this Forum has lost its objectiveness in its quest for information and truth which might be related to the JFK Assassination and those responsible.

I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, because they know I know what they are and can prove it. However, this is not why I post on this forum or the subject matter I post. I am not interested in those type of people. I too, have real questions about JFK and that day. And I too, could learn. I have never said I know everything that happened that day. I have only said I know some things. I have asked for help from others but I get no respond, except from those who still feel they have all the answers and people like me do not know anything, or even exist... BUT if we do exist then we are LIARS, Fabricators, and untruthful people. They have to cover themselves at the expense of truth and facts. Because some of us are still alive and know their deeds and their fabrications and that they were never in the 'Ball Park". Never a player. They are poor lost souls who never made the grade..., and for that they can not forgive themselves.

"I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, "

As a general rule, one only gets to actually "die" one single time.

One can however, for benefit of publicity or whatever, fake their deaths many times.

So! You served in the National Guard, and were shortly thereafter dismissed due to "Minority"/aka the Guard having found that you were underage.

Thereafter, you managed to enlist into the Army Reserves, and from there went into active duty. Where again, you were dismised do to Minority, which also effectively dismissed you from the USAR as well.

However, while on active duty, by your own accounts, you were run over by a jeep, and :

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

In addition:

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Perhaps you would be good enough to indicate exactly WHERE on your DD214 it indicates that you received a "service related" gunshot injury.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

There is no "MOS of 006"!

The military designation of '0006" represents that you were a "Basic Trainee". One does not receive their "MOS" until such time as they have completed the next 8 to 9 weeks of training which constitutes Advanced Individual Training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States..._Basic_Training

Basic Training is divided into two parts: Basic Combat Training (BCT) and Advanced Individual Training (AIT).

Basic Combat Training, or BCT, consists of the first 9 weeks of the total Basic Training period. It is identical for all Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard recruits.

Advanced Individual Training, or AIT, consists of the remainder of the total Basic Training period. It is where recruits train to eventually become experts in their chosen field, and it is therefore different for each available Army career path.

Advanced Individual Training

Advanced Individual Training, or AIT, is where new soldiers receive specific training in their chosen MOS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_MOS

Additionally! Under the assumption that you actually completed Basic and AIT training and were awarded the MOS of Tank Driver/aka Tank Crewman, then the MOS would have been MOS 3795, NOT MOS 1795.

The MOS 1795 was reserved for the senior ranking members of the Tank Crew and you would not have been awarded this MOS directly out of AIT/Advanced Individual Training.

Tank crewman – 3795

Tank driver – 3795

--------------------------------

Tank ammunition section chief – 1795

Tank commander – 1795

Tank first sergeant – 1795

Tank leader – 1795

Tank platoon sergeant – 1795

http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/p_mos.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now! Were one to assume and accept that you did in fact complete the 8 to 9 weeks of Basic Training as well as the 8 additional weeks of AIT to get the MOS of a Tank Driver, then that comes to about 16 to 17 weeks of training/aka 4-months.

Thereafter, there is absolutely nothing in regards to any additional "training" which you either received or were engaged in which would have given you any form of "covert" operations and/or classified training training.

Personally, I could care less as to whether you drove a tank or a submarine.

Had you, (and your record most definitely does not reflect so) completed any complete assignment/tour of duty with the National Guard; the USAR; Active Duty; or any combination thereof, then you would have done more than many.

In addition, you have sought to present that during this completely lack-luster EXTREMELY short period of service in the NG; the USAR; and/or Active Army, that you received some sort of clandestine training which prepared you for CIA operative work.

And, I adamantly state that this is pure BS!

Your own presented documents demonstrate that you were a Private E-1 when you first entered active duty.

That, upon your "Minority" release from Active Duty Service, you had served a sum total of 4-months and 1-day of actual credited active service time, and this included your NG (0 days) USAR (0 days) and Active Duty (4-months& 1-day) time.

Which, just so happens to be about the amount of time required for one to actually complete Basic and Advanced Individual Training and actually gain a true MOS.

Therefore, a prudent person just might ask exactly when was it that you attended these "covert operative" schoolings run by the Military/aka Army, and were they attended on your own time to the extent that you did not even receive credit for time served, which also is a principal requirement for promotions and for pay purpose calculations?

Your "credibility" and/or lack thereof in attempting to present that you have had some great "secret" training and were thusly a operative of the CIA, leads directly to your credibility and/or lack thereof in whether anything you say relative to the JFK assassination has credence.

Unfortunately, irrelevant as to credibility, prior history has well established that many will believe about anything on the subject of the JFK assassination.

Which unfortunately has brought about that no one of any sensibility will pay a lot of attention to any claims on the subject, irrelevant as to whether factual or not.

Hopefully, these little discussions and/or revelations will at least forwarn many prior to their diving off headfirst into this newly presented rabbit hole.

I would ask the Forum audience to ask themselves why one Doubting Thomas is trying so very hard to 'assassinate' the information Plumlee is trying to provide.....yes many believe or say they do....strange things abou the JFK Assassination - the strangest being any part of the official version.

SAVE YOUR BREATH AND TIME PETE. NOBODY IS READING THIS THREAD. NOBODY CARES WHAT HE THINKS, OR WHAT I POST. DON'T WASTE YOU TIME WITH IDIOTS.

I would have posted that other MOS document, but can't attatch anything because my signal is to low out here. Its not important anyhow and I do not have the time to waste on this.

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This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/

I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life.....

Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life

How true!

The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities.

Now!

The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks).

First off:

The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is:

Declassified military file

The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #22

I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons.

-------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

--------------------------------------

I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #20

Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court.

As well as the "Probation" question block?

Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956.

However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM?

Your nit-picking on this one issue doens't hide IMO you larger mission of trying to discredit Plumlee for more significant things he did later on - I'd suggest people not be fooled by what is rather transparently going on here. Again, it is what you don't discuss and address I find more significant that the minor points you try to score.

Post #20 Jan 27 2008 ".....Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civilian Court. As well as the "Probation" question block? Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956. However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, HMMMMMMMMMMM?....".

End of quote

XXXX

Peter: Do not lower yourself to reply. Its a setup. The Facts speak for themselves:

FACTS DOCUMENTED IN POST BY PLUMLEE ON THIS FORUM:

1. FACT: I was in the Texas National Guard in 1952 and I was 14 years of age.

2. FACT : I was on 4 years federal probation at the time I went into the Texas National Guard.

3. FACT; I was still on federal probation at the time I went into the US regular Army,

4. FACT; I was still on federal probation when I went in the U.S Army reserve in Dallas Texas.

5. FACT: I held the rank of Cpl at the age of 16.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

7. FACT: The juvenile file of Oct of 1952 (14 years of age) was SEALED by the court as required by law and the facts of the case were sealed.. (4 years federal probation and an agreement to enter the Texas National Guard as agreed to by the court on Oct 22 1952 as agreed to by my parents, the court, and the Texas National Guard. My probation office was a Mr Nolette of Tyler Texas and he worked my case with the United States Army.

8. FACT: The Juvenile file was unsealed in 1955 at the request of the Federal Government and the US military. The unsealed court records were sanitized by the CIA.

Note an sealed court case unsealed by the court, is not sanitized. It was sanitized later by the federal governments as to agreements to protect methods and procedures and a CIA private government training operation.

FACT: I was released from federal probation early (while I was in the US Army Reserve at Dallas Texas as requested by Capt Edward G Seiwell my CO at the time) The Court approved this formal request (found within the sanitized Pages of the probation report and court records and summations)..

9. FACT: How would anyone know what is in the sanitized pages document, except me, my mother, who is still alive at 90, and my family?

10. FACT How could a statement be made that it did not happen because the sealed court document can not be read or say it had?...How would anyone know what it said? All the pages as to any agreements and terms of the court are blacked (sanitized) out in its entirety. However, the statement below was made to infer I was not being truthful and too, I had fabricated my military service and the reasons I was in the military in the first place, as well as my being on four years federal probation at the time.

Previous quote by forum member: ".... the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures. ..". Reference to Post of: Jan. 20,2008

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Note; It was implied I was not injured and had faked the VA claim and the American tax payer was giving me a free ride at their expense. ( no reference ony a negative opinion)

13. FACT: In 1955 I went to work for the first of many CIA front companies as a aircraft flight mechanic for companies which were not even know about until 1970. Example; Regina Air Cargo, Riddle Airlines, Southwest Airmotive, and others. (As noted in FBI CIA FOIA declassified releases)

Again I state how could this be...? Was there help from the United States Government at the highest levels? Was the United States Government recruiting young troubled men who were bound for jail into a specialized military training program in the 1950's?. I say, Yes, they were.

I say they were and I have attempted to back up what I say with documentation which has recently been declassified and released. The information and documentation I have posted has been twisted, slanted, implied, infered and used to discredit me and my story and the Facts thereof. Some have attempted to mis lead members of this forum.., pulling and drawing them away from the truth and the facts of my statements.

For some, to say this did not happen, because some believe it did not happen, is not research. I posted what I believe and know, only to help the members of this forum.., and I tried to document what I said the best I could.

I have received absolutely No support from the Forum moderators when some have implied that I am a xxxx, a fabricator, and untruthful person When they post derogatory statements with absolutely no documentation that relates directly to my case, statements, and allegations. They post their opinions as Facts and manipulated the truth.

If I had done the same to these members, then I feel I would be, chastised, warned, and perhaps my posting privileges suspended. I see this as a 'Slanted Forum' special interest, and working for the MAN." I see, and feel, this Forum has lost its objectiveness in its quest for information and truth which might be related to the JFK Assassination and those responsible.

I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, because they know I know what they are and can prove it. However, this is not why I post on this forum or the subject matter I post. I am not interested in those type of people. I too, have real questions about JFK and that day. And I too, could learn. I have never said I know everything that happened that day. I have only said I know some things. I have asked for help from others but I get no respond, except from those who still feel they have all the answers and people like me do not know anything, or even exist... BUT if we do exist then we are LIARS, Fabricators, and untruthful people. They have to cover themselves at the expense of truth and facts. Because some of us are still alive and know their deeds and their fabrications and that they were never in the 'Ball Park". Never a player. They are poor lost souls who never made the grade..., and for that they can not forgive themselves.

"I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, "

As a general rule, one only gets to actually "die" one single time.

One can however, for benefit of publicity or whatever, fake their deaths many times.

So! You served in the National Guard, and were shortly thereafter dismissed due to "Minority"/aka the Guard having found that you were underage.

Thereafter, you managed to enlist into the Army Reserves, and from there went into active duty. Where again, you were dismised do to Minority, which also effectively dismissed you from the USAR as well.

However, while on active duty, by your own accounts, you were run over by a jeep, and :

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

In addition:

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Perhaps you would be good enough to indicate exactly WHERE on your DD214 it indicates that you received a "service related" gunshot injury.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

There is no "MOS of 006"!

The military designation of '0006" represents that you were a "Basic Trainee". One does not receive their "MOS" until such time as they have completed the next 8 to 9 weeks of training which constitutes Advanced Individual Training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States..._Basic_Training

Basic Training is divided into two parts: Basic Combat Training (BCT) and Advanced Individual Training (AIT).

Basic Combat Training, or BCT, consists of the first 9 weeks of the total Basic Training period. It is identical for all Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard recruits.

Advanced Individual Training, or AIT, consists of the remainder of the total Basic Training period. It is where recruits train to eventually become experts in their chosen field, and it is therefore different for each available Army career path.

Advanced Individual Training

Advanced Individual Training, or AIT, is where new soldiers receive specific training in their chosen MOS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_MOS

Additionally! Under the assumption that you actually completed Basic and AIT training and were awarded the MOS of Tank Driver/aka Tank Crewman, then the MOS would have been MOS 3795, NOT MOS 1795.

The MOS 1795 was reserved for the senior ranking members of the Tank Crew and you would not have been awarded this MOS directly out of AIT/Advanced Individual Training.

Tank crewman – 3795

Tank driver – 3795

--------------------------------

Tank ammunition section chief – 1795

Tank commander – 1795

Tank first sergeant – 1795

Tank leader – 1795

Tank platoon sergeant – 1795

http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/p_mos.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now! Were one to assume and accept that you did in fact complete the 8 to 9 weeks of Basic Training as well as the 8 additional weeks of AIT to get the MOS of a Tank Driver, then that comes to about 16 to 17 weeks of training/aka 4-months.

Thereafter, there is absolutely nothing in regards to any additional "training" which you either received or were engaged in which would have given you any form of "covert" operations and/or classified training training.

Personally, I could care less as to whether you drove a tank or a submarine.

Had you, (and your record most definitely does not reflect so) completed any complete assignment/tour of duty with the National Guard; the USAR; Active Duty; or any combination thereof, then you would have done more than many.

In addition, you have sought to present that during this completely lack-luster EXTREMELY short period of service in the NG; the USAR; and/or Active Army, that you received some sort of clandestine training which prepared you for CIA operative work.

And, I adamantly state that this is pure BS!

Your own presented documents demonstrate that you were a Private E-1 when you first entered active duty.

That, upon your "Minority" release from Active Duty Service, you had served a sum total of 4-months and 1-day of actual credited active service time, and this included your NG (0 days) USAR (0 days) and Active Duty (4-months& 1-day) time.

Which, just so happens to be about the amount of time required for one to actually complete Basic and Advanced Individual Training and actually gain a true MOS.

Therefore, a prudent person just might ask exactly when was it that you attended these "covert operative" schoolings run by the Military/aka Army, and were they attended on your own time to the extent that you did not even receive credit for time served, which also is a principal requirement for promotions and for pay purpose calculations?

Your "credibility" and/or lack thereof in attempting to present that you have had some great "secret" training and were thusly a operative of the CIA, leads directly to your credibility and/or lack thereof in whether anything you say relative to the JFK assassination has credence.

Unfortunately, irrelevant as to credibility, prior history has well established that many will believe about anything on the subject of the JFK assassination.

Which unfortunately has brought about that no one of any sensibility will pay a lot of attention to any claims on the subject, irrelevant as to whether factual or not.

Hopefully, these little discussions and/or revelations will at least forwarn many prior to their diving off headfirst into this newly presented rabbit hole.

I would ask the Forum audience to ask themselves why one Doubting Thomas is trying so very hard to 'assassinate' the information Plumlee is trying to provide.....yes many believe or say they do....strange things abou the JFK Assassination - the strangest being any part of the official version.

"strange things abou the JFK Assassination - the strangest being any part of the official version."

1. I, for whatever the worth, most assuredly was never dumb enough to believe the "official version".

2. But then again, neither was I dumb enough to have fallen for "THE SHOT THAT MISSED"!

3. Therefore, rest assured that I am not dumb enough to fall for every "wannabe" who comes down the pike claiming that they have some "inside" track on who may or may not have been behind the actions of LHO/aka the shooter/aka the Lone Assassin/aka most certainly NOT a Lone Nut.

This happens to be especially true of "wannabee's" who have to embelish upon and misrepresent their militaty service in order to convince others of their "part" in covert operations.

4. From my limited experience I would have to state that the "strangest thing" would be what people, who claim to be intelligent, can be lead to believe.

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Posting for Tosh:

Dawn

I tried to post the following but could not. I tried to post the following, but would not post.

"...Assigned MOS 1795 as of 8th of Feb 1953 age 15. Held the rank of Cpl Army Reserve and Texas National Guard..... assigned Mos 0006 Basic Training July 54 US Regular Army. Army Reserve MOS 1795 4th Army Reserve. Time in service 1952 through 1955 CIA 1956 through 1984. Go suck wind Punk. Of course they never did a background check each time I join and I could just go in and out of the National Guard, Regular Army, and Army Reserve anytime I wanted to at ages 14; 15; and 16.

I tried to attatch the military records again which were taken off the posting at the beginning of this thread for whatever reasons. They will not attatch for some reason at this time. Perhaps others have these copies and would care to post them.

Why don't you just say it? Are you call me a xxxx? Are you saying what I have said never happened? Are you saying I fabricated this story? You have prove nothing. Look at what you posted. It was not the law in 1950 through 1955 The information I posted was declasified in Sept 2006. Why was it classified in the first place? I would get a new computer if I were you or at least a new ID. ...Your cover has been blown". end

Seems someone does not want this information out there. Why?

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Posting for Tosh:

Dawn

I tried to post the following but could not. I tried to post the following, but would not post.

"...Assigned MOS 1795 as of 8th of Feb 1953 age 15. Held the rank of Cpl Army Reserve and Texas National Guard..... assigned Mos 0006 Basic Training July 54 US Regular Army. Army Reserve MOS 1795 4th Army Reserve. Time in service 1952 through 1955 CIA 1956 through 1984. Go suck wind Punk. Of course they never did a background check each time I join and I could just go in and out of the National Guard, Regular Army, and Army Reserve anytime I wanted to at ages 14; 15; and 16.

I tried to attatch the military records again which were taken off the posting at the beginning of this thread for whatever reasons. They will not attatch for some reason at this time. Perhaps others have these copies and would care to post them.

Why don't you just say it? Are you call me a xxxx? Are you saying what I have said never happened? Are you saying I fabricated this story? You have prove nothing. Look at what you posted. It was not the law in 1950 through 1955 The information I posted was declasified in Sept 2006. Why was it classified in the first place? I would get a new computer if I were you or at least a new ID. ...Your cover has been blown". end

Seems someone does not want this information out there. Why?

Seems someone does not want this information out there. Why?

Just perhaps due to the fact that the "Garbage Heap" in regards to the JFK assassination long ago exceeded to capacity for the landfill!

From the records now provided:

1. Joined the Texas National Guard: 22 October 1952.

2. Discharged from the Texas National Guard: 8 February 1953.

Total length of time in NG prior to being discharged: 3-months & 17 days. (118 days)

National Guard normal attendence is for a two-day weekend every other week.

However, the XMas/New Years period is always exempted, thus at least one weekend is generally eliminated during this period.

Had there been no period of "non-attendence" during the 118 day time period/18.85 weeks, one could expect to have been required to attend approximately 18-days of Guard Drill within the time period.

However! When the X-mas exempted period is deducted, this would come to approximately 16 days of actual attendence at National Guard weekend drills.

Thusly, it would appear as no coincidence that the Texas NG record which you have posted notes that you actually had served for 16 actual days of service prior to being released from the National Guard due to being a "Minority"/aka underage.

Now, since one is neither awarded credit for Basic Training or MOS qualification by the National Guard (One must go off to Active Duty For Training), and Basic Training itself ran a minimum of 8 full weeks, (56 full days), and one does not get into AIT until completion of Basic Training, then any assignment of an MOS by the National Guard is merely some assignment in which you were assigned to some position but did not have the skill MOS to fill. Which, quite obviously some clerk also assigned the incorrect MOS (which you also quite obviously did not even know), as the MOS shown is for a SENIOR enlisted member of a Tank Crew.

Not a driver/crewman.

As a further note, when you actually did finally get into active duty through the USAR "back door", please re-note that you went to active duty as a "0006" Basic Trainee.

Which also means that you had not been in service long enough to even complete basic training and thusly had to complete this pre-requisite prior to even getting into an MOS producing course of instruction.

And for anyone who has "been there & done that", they know that one does not have to take "Basic Training" a second time.

If one takes it in the Guard, they are "good to go" be it USAR; Regular Army; or USAR, as the Basic Training is the same for ALL and one will find (back in them good ole days) NG; USAR; Draftees/US; and RA enlistees all taking basic training together.

This document, not unlike the others, provides further indication that you were a Private E-1 (which is the grade one receives upon initial entry into service) at the time which you were discharged from the NG, and, even though the Guard "assigned" a skill and MOS (which by the way is erroneous), your own NG record demonstrates that you never actually served a single day in that capacity/mos in actual duty.

You just might want to read all that is stated in that "empty" block down there at the bottom left which descirbes all of the time which you actually spent serving in that "assigned" MOS.

P.S. Not unlike all of the other items of these forms of which you apparantly know nothing, the "15" points earned tells one all that they truely need to know about your "extended" actual days and time served in the Texas National Guard.

http://www.me.ngb.army.mil/Handbook/Milita...0Retirement.htm

A typical Guardsman earns 15 Membership points for National Guard membership each year and four IDT points for each full drill weekend. One IDT point is also awarded for the completion of every three credit hours of correspondence courses with a grade of satisfactory or better. Additionally, one retirement point is earned for each day of Annual Training, for each day of active duty, and for each day of training while on active duty status. Guardsmen may not earn more than two IDT retirement points a day, nor can they be credited with both IDT and active duty retirement points for the same day.

It would thusly appear that either someone "shorted" you a few retirement points, or else someone neglected to document all of the training which you received and which your record does not indicate.

Exactlly who was it that was in charge of and handled your military records?

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http://www.americal.org/awards/agcm.htm

Army Good Conduct Medal

The Army Good Conduct Medal (AGCM) was established by Executive Order 8809, 28 June 1941 and was ammended by Executive Order 9323, 1943 and by Executive Order 10444, 10 April 1953. It is awarded for exemplary behavior, efficiency, and fidelity in active Federal military service. It is awarded on a selective basis to each soldier who distinguishes himself or herself from among his or her fellow soldiers by their exemplary conduct, efficiency, and fidelity throughout a specified period of continuous enlisted active Federal military service, as outlined in this chapter. There is no right or entitlement to the medal until the immediate commander has approved the award and the award has been announced in permanent orders. See glossary for definition of "active Federal military service."

4-2. Personnel eligible

a. Active Component enlisted soldiers.

b. Active Guard Reserve (AGR) enlisted personnel serving on extended periods of active duty (other than for training) under title 10, USC are eligible for award of the AGCM for qualifying service beginning on or after 1 September 1982, provided no period of the service has been duplicated by the same period of service for which the soldier has been awarded the Army Reserve Components Achievement Medal.

c. Retroactively to eligible Army of the United States (AUS) enlisted personnel.

d. Other Army enlisted personnel as may be directed by the Secretary of the Army.

4-5. Qualifying periods of service

Any one of the following periods of continuous enlisted active Federal military service qualifies for award of the AGCM or of a AGCM Clasp (para 4-9) in conjunction with the criteria in para (4-6):

a. Each 3 years completed on or after 27 August 1940.

b. For first award only, 1 year served entirely during the period 7 December 1941 to 2 March 1946

c. For first award only, upon termination of service on or after 27 June 1950, of less than 3 years but more than 1 year.

[i]d. For first award only, upon termination of service, on or after 27 June 1950, of less than 1 year when final separation was by reason of physical disability incurred in line of duty [/i]

e. For first award only, for those individuals who died before completing 1 year of active Federal military service if the death occurred in the line of duty.

The "lack" of certain items within military records often tells one almost as much as those blocks that are filled in.

Virtually any exemplary "trooper" that I know of has at least the "Good Conduct" Medal award.

Actually, there are in fact a considerable number of quite sorry ones who also had it.

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There is a document on William Plumlee in JFK Assassination files relating to John Martino, I am afraid it will not satisfy the allegations and charges being tossed back and forth.....

See

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=75745

Thanks Robert. I think the following FBI document should be added to the FBI file above. Notice how negative information is not sanitized, but some of the secret matters on other documents is sanitized and still classified... such as the Mc Cord Ranch, The Grace Ranch of Tucson... The trip to Galveston Texas...Who was on board that aircraft and why were they going to Galveston Texas... And to, we can't forget about the "Thunderbird Inn" in Las Vegas... and too, Santa Barbra California to see Holt...Why?. Of course this thread will never get to this stage because it will drift into clutter with matters of no value to the facts of what I was involved in those days... Again notice this document and too, notice that ALL my FBI files went to the Director himself J Edgar Hoover... HUMMMMMM

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/check4.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist1.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist2.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist3.PDF

Also note the following file was also with held from the FOIA request of 1993 and concerned ongoing investigations into Iran/Contra and the Mexico CIA Thing of 1989-90:

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/DEAfiles.pdf

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9.PDF

(note; I received an Email asking who Roselli was in reference to FBI 62-2116 "The Roselli/Plumlee".)

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9396.PDF

(note: 7 pages found within this FBI 62-2116 are classified and the other three pages are sanitized totally blacked out at request of NSC National Security. note: the file number on Plumlee is the same file number as Roselli.... "The Plumlee/Roselli File" as some make reference.. Additional pages of this file are under another FBI number and has recently been declassified that is a CIA file number. Plumlee was NOT the source of that information. It came fromMilitary Intel; Pentagon.

Notice the FBI said "No Files or information" However, some years later a few files were released... and a few months a few more were released. Last year, more files a total of over 400 pages and counting. To me this raises a question: WHY and Who in the FBI tampered with the Plumlee FBI file. What would be the motive for this? Why would Hoover himself even be interested in this information? Why are portions of the Plumlee FBI file sanitized and the negative information not sanitized?

I will help.... if I am allowed. Some out there know I can blow them and their BS stories out of the water. That leads to motivation on their part to see that this does not happen. Plumlee has to be discredited to protect their BS and falsehoods and the disinformation that has been planted through the years.

And Now on with my story if I am allowed...

These released documents as well as the recently CIA declassified information as well as documentation released from the Pentagon should be of interest in reference to JFK and that day. (detailed and referenced in book)

I would like to start a New Thread on this But it too would soon be taken away into never never land..and anything I would have to say would be clouded and lost in the clutter... This is the reason for the book... " Deep Cover Shallow Graves".. I did not want to write this damn book but I was asked my many. Even Jay Harrison wanted to see this book... But the United States Government at one point did not want to see it in print... Things have changed to some degree today and its a 'Look See" if you get my drift... Thanks again.

Edited by William Plumlee
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