What does it all mean?

[William Plumlee]

Over and over again.., year after year, speculations, theories, and facts...,like rats in a cage.., round and round, up and down. Conspiracy has been documented and proven IMO beyond doubt.

Now where do we go from here? Do we continue to go over all this stuff again..., new angles, new theories, throwing away the facts so theories can be inserted as facts to sell books. Just read the hundreds of post and ask yourselves simple questions; what have we really accomplished as to finding those who set the deed in motion? Are we going to continue to speculate, write books, post threads on our theories and throw our more confusing speculations upon the public. Have we become a "Cult"? Are we afraid to really look at ourselves? Are we afraid of what we really might see and find as to our motives?

Lets all give ourselves the benefit of doubt for a moment and say there was a conspiracy. Then what? Where do we go from there? Are we more interested in WHO proves the Conspiracy for fame and glory or finding the real conspirators, if any?

We have forced ourselves or have been forced into the cage with the rats and now we go round and round until we are dizzy with them. Some manage to escape. But most just keep going round and round and tell themselves they are doing a fine job of proving the conspiracy.

We have totally lost sight of the real objective. (IMO) We have got to the point that new information is not accepted because it goes against the norm and if you push new information regardless of how documented or referenced it is, we can not accept it. We have been conditioned not to accept anything new, and we spend hours putting our heads and ourselves deep in the sand with our butts high in the air for all to see.

Oh. Well. Back to the black hole from which I came. Good Luck.

Edited March 3, 2008 by William Plumlee

[William Kelly]

I don't know where anybody else wants to go.

But under the Constitution of the United States evidence and witnesses to homicides are brought before a Grand Jury.

As suggested since the demise of the ARRB, the next step for the JFK assassination research is to generate NEW, SWORN testimony, under oath in a court of law or Congress.

Towards that end COPA and its members have been trying to get Congress to hold oversight hearings on the JFK Act and obtain the sworn testimony of those who have knowledge of records that have been destroyed, illegally with held and are missing.

Those hearings are not concerned with the evidence of conspiracy or crimes other than those crimes connected to government records.

All evidence of crimes related to the assassination should be and eventually must be presented to a grand jury to determine if there is enough evidence to indict individuals for crimes related to the assassination - including but not limited to perjury, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, falsefiying evidence, conspiracy and homicide.

Those who want to pursue this two agendas can join COPA.

We've been pursuing these two goals for years now, and if we don't get the oversight hearings in the next year, and an active grand jury in two years, it will never happen, and you can debate and argue and promote books and web sites all you want.

The legal channel for the proper investigation of homicide in the US is very clear, it goes before a grand jury.

Bill Kelly

For those interested in my research:

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

For those interested in JFK Grand Jury:

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2008/01...gal-action.html

For those interested in COPA:

http://www.politicalassassinations.com/

[William Plumlee]

I don't know where anybody else wants to go.

But under the Constitution of the United States evidence and witnesses to homicides are brought before a Grand Jury.

As suggested since the demise of the ARRB, the next step for the JFK assassination research is to generate NEW, SWORN testimony, under oath in a court of law or Congress.

Towards that end COPA and its members have been trying to get Congress to hold oversight hearings on the JFK Act and obtain the sworn testimony of those who have knowledge of records that have been destroyed, illegally with held and are missing.

Those hearings are not concerned with the evidence of conspiracy or crimes other than those crimes connected to government records.

All evidence of crimes related to the assassination should be and eventually must be presented to a grand jury to determine if there is enough evidence to indict individuals for crimes related to the assassination - including but not limited to perjury, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, falsefiying evidence, conspiracy and homicide.

Those who want to pursue this two agendas can join COPA.

We've been pursuing these two goals for years now, and if we don't get the oversight hearings in the next year, and an active grand jury in two years, it will never happen, and you can debate and argue and promote books and web sites all you want.

The legal channel for the proper investigation of homicide in the US is very clear, it goes before a grand jury.

Bill Kelly

For those interested in my research:

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

For those interested in JFK Grand Jury:

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2008/01...gal-action.html

For those interested in COPA:

http://www.politicalassassinations.com/

Very Good points Bill.

In order to do that we have to become a cohesive unified force all aiming for a common goal, unified and dedicated in that quest. Anything less is nothing more than confusing and is used against us by the powers that be. COPA is a good place to start, as well as other fronts and individuals and organizations, which have the same goals and objectives; to find those responsible and bring them to justice for the American people. Anything less than that IMO is a crime in itself. However, we do not want to become known as a "special interest group" with some kind of Ax to grind against the government. I seem to recall one word, of which I feel is fitting: Focus..., focus, and focus somemore.

I was told once by a very good source, a pilot friend of mine, who is no longer with us; "Keep your Eye upon the donut and not upon its hole.". Sometimes, I too, forget this and I think of him and the price he paid. That helps me focus and helps keep my mind on the Objective.

"... But under the Constitution of the United States evidence and witnesses to homicides are brought before a Grand Jury. ...".

As to your statement, of which I took the liberty to quote.., I am willing to go. If need be I'll lead the way.

[Denis Pointing]

I don't know where anybody else wants to go.

But under the Constitution of the United States evidence and witnesses to homicides are brought before a Grand Jury.

As suggested since the demise of the ARRB, the next step for the JFK assassination research is to generate NEW, SWORN testimony, under oath in a court of law or Congress.

Towards that end COPA and its members have been trying to get Congress to hold oversight hearings on the JFK Act and obtain the sworn testimony of those who have knowledge of records that have been destroyed, illegally with held and are missing.

Those hearings are not concerned with the evidence of conspiracy or crimes other than those crimes connected to government records.

All evidence of crimes related to the assassination should be and eventually must be presented to a grand jury to determine if there is enough evidence to indict individuals for crimes related to the assassination - including but not limited to perjury, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, falsefiying evidence, conspiracy and homicide.

Those who want to pursue this two agendas can join COPA.

We've been pursuing these two goals for years now, and if we don't get the oversight hearings in the next year, and an active grand jury in two years, it will never happen, and you can debate and argue and promote books and web sites all you want.

The legal channel for the proper investigation of homicide in the US is very clear, it goes before a grand jury.

Bill Kelly

For those interested in my research:

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

For those interested in JFK Grand Jury:

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2008/01...gal-action.html

For those interested in COPA:

http://www.politicalassassinations.com/

Truly exelent post Bill, the most sincere and meaningful one I've read here for a LONG time. Thanks for your perspective. Denis.

[Duke Lane]

Over and over again.., year after year, speculations, theories, and facts...,like rats in a cage.., round and round, up and down. Conspiracy has been documented and proven IMO beyond doubt.

Now where do we go from here? Do we continue to go over all this stuff again..., new angles, new theories, throwing away the facts so theories can be inserted as facts to sell books. Just read the hundreds of post and ask yourselves simple questions; what have we really accomplished as to finding those who set the deed in motion? Are we going to continue to speculate, write books, post threads on our theories and throw our more confusing speculations upon the public. Have we become a "Cult"? Are we afraid to really look at ourselves? Are we afraid of what we really might see and find as to our motives?

...

We have totally lost sight of the real objective. (IMO) We have got to the point that new information is not accepted because it goes against the norm and if you push new information regardless of how documented or referenced it is, we can not accept it. We have been conditioned not to accept anything new, and we spend hours putting our heads and ourselves deep in the sand with our butts high in the air for all to see.

I don't know where anybody else wants to go. But under the Constitution of the United States evidence and witnesses to homicides are brought before a Grand Jury. As suggested since the demise of the ARRB, the next step for the JFK assassination research is to generate NEW, SWORN testimony, under oath in a court of law or Congress.

Towards that end COPA and its members have been trying to get Congress to hold oversight hearings on the JFK Act and obtain the sworn testimony of those who have knowledge of records that have been destroyed, illegally with held and are missing. Those hearings are not concerned with the evidence of conspiracy or crimes other than those crimes connected to government records. ...

I tend to agree with Tosh. Is there anyone, any group, any organization that's not part of The Grand Conspiracy? Will we prove this conspiracy by proving that there were others, unrelated if as equally sinister? Will proving beyond even any doubt that there are missing, hidden or destroyed documents tell us who shot Jack? Can we even speculate that those missing documents must necessarily contain that Great Secret?

We can only hope to delay any possible certainty into years beyond years as Congress, in theory, actually investigates that documents were withheld by any means, then debates what to do about it, and then (maybe) spends many more years suing for their return, disclosure, declassification or whatnot ... while many among us continue to decry the ongoing conspiracy of silence, another failed investigation, yet one more debacle for which we'd once held such high hopes?

There will be books about that, too, I'm sure.

If the Grand Jury Project, which is not new, has yet to convince a court of competent jurisdiction to even consider convening a grand jury, its likelihood of ever doing so dwindles with each passing day - nay, each passing year, of which there have already been too many - until it reaches zero ... if it ever reached higher, if it ever held any hope of actually achieving its stated purpose.

And after so many years with so many suspects, each with only so many years to live (assuming, that is, that they're actual people and not institutions), after so much talk and so little actual action, it is a fair question to ask if the stated purpose is the actual purpose, or if that is really just the perpetuation of the assassination industry cult of conspiracy.

Were someone to post a list of the approaches that have been made, the concerted efforts toward actually convincing a district attorney or judge to even look seriously at masses of evidence that have been brought to their attention even if the DA has rejected it all out of hand, we could maybe actually believe that someone really does want to do something rather than simply to remain respected and "famous" for calling out for something to be done.

'Cuz y'know, if something ever is done, and we ever do find out who shot Jack, then there won't be anymore books, no more conferences, lectures, guest appearances, documentaries and railing against the Establishment from atop the grassy knoll, and nobody even selling cheesy newspaper there anymore.

One wonders: are answers, finally nailing the perp or perps, actually antithetical to our <ahem!> stated purposes? What are we going to do then?!?

[Duke Lane]

I'm sure I'm 'singing to the choir', but we are never again going to have a chance like now with the current D.A. in Dallas....

The new Dallas DA Files: Craig Watkins vs. Henry Wade

By James DiEugenio

In November of 2006 the citizens of Dallas elected Craig Watkins their first African-American DA. ...

... Now, as the accompanying story details, Watkins has focused his reform attitude on the assassination of President Kennedy. ...

... At his press conference, Watkins said that he never believed Oswald acted alone. He added, "I believe in conspiracies. I think that's just too simple of an explanation."

Finally, after 44 years, the people of Dallas get a DA who thinks like the majority of them do.

We shall see.

Mostly, I think, we shall see where the "JFK Grand Jury" folks are (NOT) during Watkins' term.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Duke Lane

[Dawn Meredith]

I'm sure I'm 'singing to the choir', but we are never again going to have a chance like now with the current D.A. in Dallas....

The new Dallas DA Files: Craig Watkins vs. Henry Wade

By James DiEugenio

In November of 2006 the citizens of Dallas elected Craig Watkins their first African-American DA. ...

... Now, as the accompanying story details, Watkins has focused his reform attitude on the assassination of President Kennedy. ...

... At his press conference, Watkins said that he never believed Oswald acted alone. He added, "I believe in conspiracies. I think that's just too simple of an explanation."

Finally, after 44 years, the people of Dallas get a DA who thinks like the majority of them do.

We shall see.

Mostly, I think, we shall see where the "JFK Grand Jury" folks are (NOT) during Watkins' term.

This is our best hope, in fact our only one, so....there must be a plan. A very carefull one. Jim's piece was great. Hope he sent it to the DA. (And it goes without saying I agree with Tosh).

Dawn

[William Kelly]

I'm sure I'm 'singing to the choir', but we are never again going to have a chance like now with the current D.A. in Dallas....

The new Dallas DA Files: Craig Watkins vs. Henry Wade

By James DiEugenio

In November of 2006 the citizens of Dallas elected Craig Watkins their first African-American DA. ...

... Now, as the accompanying story details, Watkins has focused his reform attitude on the assassination of President Kennedy. ...

... At his press conference, Watkins said that he never believed Oswald acted alone. He added, "I believe in conspiracies. I think that's just too simple of an explanation."

Finally, after 44 years, the people of Dallas get a DA who thinks like the majority of them do.

We shall see.

Mostly, I think, we shall see where the "JFK Grand Jury" folks are (NOT) during Watkins' term.

Duke, is this directed at me? If so I'll respond. - BK

Is there anyone, any group, any organization that's not part of The Grand Conspiracy? Will we prove this conspiracy by proving that there were others, unrelated if as equally sinister? Will proving beyond even any doubt that there are missing, hidden or destroyed documents tell us who shot Jack? Can we even speculate that those missing documents must necessarily contain that Great Secret?

We can only hope to delay any possible certainty into years beyond years as Congress, in theory, actually investigates that documents were withheld by any means, then debates what to do about it, and then (maybe) spends many more years suing for their return, disclosure, declassification or whatnot ... while many among us continue to decry the ongoing conspiracy of silence, another failed investigation, yet one more debacle for which we'd once held such high hopes?

There will be books about that, too, I'm sure.

If the Grand Jury Project, which is not new, has yet to convince a court of competent jurisdiction to even consider convening a grand jury, its likelihood of ever doing so dwindles with each passing day - nay, each passing year, of which there have already been too many - until it reaches zero ... if it ever reached higher, if it ever held any hope of actually achieving its stated purpose.

And after so many years with so many suspects, each with only so many years to live (assuming, that is, that they're actual people and not institutions), after so much talk and so little actual action, it is a fair question to ask if the stated purpose is the actual purpose, or if that is really just the perpetuation of the assassination industry cult of conspiracy.

Were someone to post a list of the approaches that have been made, the concerted efforts toward actually convincing a district attorney or judge to even look seriously at masses of evidence that have been brought to their attention even if the DA has rejected it all out of hand, we could maybe actually believe that someone really does want to do something rather than simply to remain respected and "famous" for calling out for something to be done.

'Cuz y'know, if something ever is done, and we ever do find out who shot Jack, then there won't be anymore books, no more conferences, lectures, guest appearances, documentaries and railing against the Establishment from atop the grassy knoll, and nobody even selling cheesy newspaper there anymore.

One wonders: are answers, finally nailing the perp or perps, actually antithetical to our <ahem!> stated purposes? What are we going to do then?!?

[Mike Perez]

The only problem with the Grand Jury senario, is IMO the Grand Jury would run up against the same problems that the Warren Commission, The House Select Committee, Jim Garrison and probably any one else that would start a legitimate investigation NO COOPERATION. It's been proven time and again that the Government and it's agencies are not going to help in the solving of this crime. The House Select Committee reccomended that the Justice Dept. (Namely the FBI) investigate further after they found evidence of a conspriracy, I haven't seen the FBI do anything but up hold the Warren Commission finding and then slink off out of sight again so that maybe these people who keep asking the hard questions will get tired of asking or else die off. IMO FWIW, We will never find out who was behind this crime, oh sure we can look at evidence that shows us who was behind it and how it happened, but the people who need to be looking at this never will because they are the ones behind it.

[William Kelly]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your interest and opinions in this matter.

The only problem with the Grand Jury senario, is IMO the Grand Jury would run up against the same problems that the Warren Commission, The House Select Committee, Jim Garrison and probably any one else that would start a legitimate investigation NO COOPERATION. It's been proven time and again that the Government and it's agencies are not going to help in the solving of this crime.

These other investigations were all different - with different agendas, different powers, different results. The Warren Commission was an appointed blue ribbon panel that did what it was expected to do. The HSCA was a limited, time and budget constrained Congressional Committee, which generated new witnesses and unearthed and created many new records, most of which are now available to the public.

Garrison actually conveined a grand jury and presented enough evidence that it indicted Clay Shaw, who was later found not guilty at trial.

The government is nothing more than people, and the people in government today are not the same as those who assumed power when JFK was killed (except those in the White House), so a new generation is taking over and not alligned with the past, as Dallas D.A. Craig Watkins has shown.

The House Select Committee reccomended that the Justice Dept. (Namely the FBI) investigate further after they found evidence of a conspriracy, I haven't seen the FBI do anything but up hold the Warren Commission finding and then slink off out of sight again so that maybe these people who keep asking the hard questions will get tired of asking or else die off.

Of course the federal government today and the FBI at anytime cannot be counted on to cooperate in a proper investigaiton of the assassination, but that shouldn't keep others from answering the questions that can still be answered, trying to obtain new witness testimony under oath, and forcing the legal system to fuction as it was designed to. Time is against the witnesses, but in favor of the truth.

IMO FWIW, We will never find out who was behind this crime, oh sure we can look at evidence that shows us who was behind it and how it happened, but the people who need to be looking at this never will because they are the ones behind it.

We already know 90% of what happened at Dealey Plaza, and the rest will come when new witnesses are questioned under oath and the classified records are released.

We are not asking those responsible for killing JFK to investigate it today, as was the case in 1963. Craig Watkins wasn't born yet.

While Dallas DA Craig Watkins doesn't have the power or wherewithall to solve the assassination of the President, he does have the power and ability to solve, to a legal certainty, the murder of Dallas policeman J D Tippit, which as the Rosetta Stone of Dealey Plaza, should lead to the resolution of the assassination of JFK as well.

Those who say we will never know, or can never know, don't understand that the total truth of the assassination of President Kennedy must and will be understood and brought to a legal resolution for the very reason it has been kept secret - national security.

The national security of the USA will never be secured until the JFK assassination is resolved.

Bill Kelly

[William Kelly]

Over and over again.., year after year, speculations, theories, and facts...,like rats in a cage.., round and round, up and down. Conspiracy has been documented and proven IMO beyond doubt.

Now where do we go from here? Do we continue to go over all this stuff again..., new angles, new theories, throwing away the facts so theories can be inserted as facts to sell books. Just read the hundreds of post and ask yourselves simple questions; what have we really accomplished as to finding those who set the deed in motion? Are we going to continue to speculate, write books, post threads on our theories and throw our more confusing speculations upon the public. Have we become a "Cult"? Are we afraid to really look at ourselves? Are we afraid of what we really might see and find as to our motives?

...

We have totally lost sight of the real objective. (IMO) We have got to the point that new information is not accepted because it goes against the norm and if you push new information regardless of how documented or referenced it is, we can not accept it. We have been conditioned not to accept anything new, and we spend hours putting our heads and ourselves deep in the sand with our butts high in the air for all to see.

I don't know where anybody else wants to go. But under the Constitution of the United States evidence and witnesses to homicides are brought before a Grand Jury. As suggested since the demise of the ARRB, the next step for the JFK assassination research is to generate NEW, SWORN testimony, under oath in a court of law or Congress.

Towards that end COPA and its members have been trying to get Congress to hold oversight hearings on the JFK Act and obtain the sworn testimony of those who have knowledge of records that have been destroyed, illegally with held and are missing. Those hearings are not concerned with the evidence of conspiracy or crimes other than those crimes connected to government records. ...

DUKE, I let this slide for awhile, but decided I must respond in kind. Instead of asking a few simple questions or posting your opinion, you have to be insulting. So be it. But I will try to set you striaght, so you and others know exactly what us "Grand Jury Project Folks" are doing.

I tend to agree with Tosh. Is there anyone, any group, any organization that's not part of The Grand Conspiracy? Will we prove this conspiracy by proving that there were others, unrelated if as equally sinister?

Proving conspiracy is not the goal of the JFK Grand Jury Project, although that could be one of the results. The Grand Jury Project seeks to obtain new witness testimony under oath, open classified records and present them to a sitting grand jury in Dallas, New Orleans or DC for them to determine if there is enough evidence to indict living individuals for crimes releated to the assassination, including perjury, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, homicide, treason and conspiracy.

Will proving beyond even any doubt that there are missing, hidden or destroyed documents tell us who shot Jack? Can we even speculate that those missing documents must necessarily contain that Great Secret?

Nothing to prove there, as there are dozens if not hundreds of missing and destroyed records, though they are each only pieces of the puzzle and will only tell us who shot Jack when taken together. Whose speculating here?

We can only hope to delay any possible certainty into years beyond years as Congress, in theory, actually investigates that documents were withheld by any means, then debates what to do about it, and then (maybe) spends many more years suing for their return, disclosure, declassification or whatnot ...

I guess here you are referring to the Congressional Oversight of the JFK Act, which has yet to take place, and will not be an investigation into who was responsible for the assassintion but limited to an inquiry into the disposition of the government records, which as the Dallas DA has pointed out, remains uncertain in many quarters. All records are scheduled to be released by 2017, but could be released before then. We may see some new records as soon as late April, thanks to JM, not "years beyond years."

while many among us continue to decry the ongoing conspiracy of silence, another failed investigation, yet one more debacle for which we'd once held such high hopes?

I don't know who you are talking about "many among us coninue to decry the ongoing conspiracy of silence,...and one more debacle..." as I haven't heard you or anyone decry such things, other than blaming COPA for the Texas Fair Giant on the Grassy Knoll.

There will be books about that, too, I'm sure.

If the Grand Jury Project, which is not new, has yet to convince a court of competent jurisdiction to even consider convening a grand jury, its likelihood of ever doing so dwindles with each passing day - nay, each passing year, of which there have already been too many - until it reaches zero ... if it ever reached higher, if it ever held any hope of actually achieving its stated purpose.

There is no timeline for the JFK Grand Jury Project, but in order to increase its chances of success the JFK Grand Jury petition will be presented to the Federal DAs in North Texas, New Orleans La., and DC before the November elections, and then again after the elections, if a Democratic president takes office and a new Attorney General is in place. Each petition will be fashioned to that jurisdicition and will be made public.

And after so many years with so many suspects, each with only so many years to live (assuming, that is, that they're actual people and not institutions), after so much talk and so little actual action, it is a fair question to ask if the stated purpose is the actual purpose, or if that is really just the perpetuation of the assassination industry cult of conspiracy.

While you might not see any actual ACTION, don't assume there is none. While our strategic game plan is an open book, we are working hard behind the scenes to make the petition not only a valid legal document but one that will educate people, if not open the doors of justice to the evidence.

As for the perpetuation of the assassination industry cult of conspiracy, I just don't see it. Where's the money behind the "industry?" With Gerald Posner, Norman Mailer, Max Holland, Dale Meyers and Vincent Bugliosi, et al., making hundreds of thousands a year to frame the lone nut, how can you call the assassination industry a "cult of conspiracy"? Where's the conspiracy in this well funded industry?

Were someone to post a list of the approaches that have been made, the concerted efforts toward actually convincing a district attorney or judge to even look seriously at masses of evidence that have been brought to their attention even if the DA has rejected it all out of hand, we could maybe actually believe that someone really does want to do something rather than simply to remain respected and "famous" for calling out for something to be done.

Well, of course you want me to tell you that we've approached Dallas DA Craig Watkins and convinced him to convein a grand jury to review the evience in the Tippit murder, or the other cold case unsolved homicides related to the assassination in his jurisdicition, but then he's your DA, isn't he? All those convicted criminals that he released because they were exonerated by DNA evidence were not only innocent, someone else committed those crimes and got off because the wrong man was convicted. Now whose going to properly investigate those cold case crimes and get the right killers, especially the real murders of JFK and JDT?

And what do you mean saying that my motive is "simply to remain respected and 'famous" for calling out for something to be done"? You slap me in the face and then stab me in the back. I thought fame was what the accused assassin was seeking?

'Cuz y'know, if something ever is done, and we ever do find out who shot Jack, then there won't be anymore books, no more conferences, lectures, guest appearances, documentaries and railing against the Establishment from atop the grassy knoll, and nobody even selling cheesy newspaper there anymore.

From the very first ASK conference in Dallas I said that it was possible to solve the case rather than just discuss it, and that no more conferences would be necessary. But there will always be people going to the Grassy Knoll and selling cheesy newspapers.

One wonders: are answers, finally nailing the perp or perps, actually antithetical to our <ahem!> stated purposes? What are we going to do then?!?

Then we can have a party and someone can offer a toast to all those who sought the truth from the very beginning and didn't live long enough to see the final legal resolution of the case, and the restoration of democracy and our national security.

Bill Kelly

Edited March 16, 2008 by William Kelly

[Dawn Meredith]

Over and over again.., year after year, speculations, theories, and facts...,like rats in a cage.., round and round, up and down. Conspiracy has been documented and proven IMO beyond doubt.

Now where do we go from here? Do we continue to go over all this stuff again..., new angles, new theories, throwing away the facts so theories can be inserted as facts to sell books. Just read the hundreds of post and ask yourselves simple questions; what have we really accomplished as to finding those who set the deed in motion? Are we going to continue to speculate, write books, post threads on our theories and throw our more confusing speculations upon the public. Have we become a "Cult"? Are we afraid to really look at ourselves? Are we afraid of what we really might see and find as to our motives?

...

We have totally lost sight of the real objective. (IMO) We have got to the point that new information is not accepted because it goes against the norm and if you push new information regardless of how documented or referenced it is, we can not accept it. We have been conditioned not to accept anything new, and we spend hours putting our heads and ourselves deep in the sand with our butts high in the air for all to see.

I don't know where anybody else wants to go. But under the Constitution of the United States evidence and witnesses to homicides are brought before a Grand Jury. As suggested since the demise of the ARRB, the next step for the JFK assassination research is to generate NEW, SWORN testimony, under oath in a court of law or Congress.

Towards that end COPA and its members have been trying to get Congress to hold oversight hearings on the JFK Act and obtain the sworn testimony of those who have knowledge of records that have been destroyed, illegally with held and are missing. Those hearings are not concerned with the evidence of conspiracy or crimes other than those crimes connected to government records. ...

DUKE, I let this slide for awhile, but decided I must respond in kind. Instead of asking a few simple questions or posting your opinion, you have to be insulting. So be it. But I will try to set you striaght, so you and others know exactly what us "Grand Jury Project Folks" are doing.

I tend to agree with Tosh. Is there anyone, any group, any organization that's not part of The Grand Conspiracy? Will we prove this conspiracy by proving that there were others, unrelated if as equally sinister?

Proving conspiracy is not the goal of the JFK Grand Jury Project, although that could be one of the results. The Grand Jury Project seeks to obtain new witness testimony under oath, open classified records and present them to a sitting grand jury in Dallas, New Orleans or DC for them to determine if there is enough evidence to indict living individuals for crimes releated to the assassination, including perjury, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, homicide, treason and conspiracy.

Will proving beyond even any doubt that there are missing, hidden or destroyed documents tell us who shot Jack? Can we even speculate that those missing documents must necessarily contain that Great Secret?

Nothing to prove there, as there are dozens if not hundreds of missing and destroyed records, though they are each only pieces of the puzzle and will only tell us who shot Jack when taken together. Whose speculating here?

We can only hope to delay any possible certainty into years beyond years as Congress, in theory, actually investigates that documents were withheld by any means, then debates what to do about it, and then (maybe) spends many more years suing for their return, disclosure, declassification or whatnot ...

I guess here you are referring to the Congressional Oversight of the JFK Act, which has yet to take place, and will not be an investigation into who was responsible for the assassintion but limited to an inquiry into the disposition of the government records, which as the Dallas DA has pointed out, remains uncertain in many quarters. All records are scheduled to be released by 2017, but could be released before then. We may see some new records as soon as late April, thanks to JM, not "years beyond years."

while many among us continue to decry the ongoing conspiracy of silence, another failed investigation, yet one more debacle for which we'd once held such high hopes?

I don't know who you are talking about "many among us coninue to decry the ongoing conspiracy of silence,...and one more debacle..." as I haven't heard you or anyone decry such things, other than blaming COPA for the Texas Fair Giant on the Grassy Knoll.

There will be books about that, too, I'm sure.

If the Grand Jury Project, which is not new, has yet to convince a court of competent jurisdiction to even consider convening a grand jury, its likelihood of ever doing so dwindles with each passing day - nay, each passing year, of which there have already been too many - until it reaches zero ... if it ever reached higher, if it ever held any hope of actually achieving its stated purpose.

There is no timeline for the JFK Grand Jury Project, but in order to increase its chances of success the JFK Grand Jury petition will be presented to the Federal DAs in North Texas, New Orleans La., and DC before the November elections, and then again after the elections, if a Democratic president takes office and a new Attorney General is in place. Each petition will be fashioned to that jurisdicition and will be made public.

And after so many years with so many suspects, each with only so many years to live (assuming, that is, that they're actual people and not institutions), after so much talk and so little actual action, it is a fair question to ask if the stated purpose is the actual purpose, or if that is really just the perpetuation of the assassination industry cult of conspiracy.

While you might not see any actual ACTION, don't assume there is none. While our strategic game plan is an open book, we are working hard behind the scenes to make the petition not only a valid legal document but one that will educate people, if not open the doors of justice to the evidence.

As for the perpetuation of the assassination industry cult of conspiracy, I just don't see it. Where's the money behind the "industry?" With Gerald Posner, Norman Mailer, Max Holland, Dale Meyers and Vincent Bugliosi, et al., making hundreds of thousands a year to frame the lone nut, how can you call the assassination industry a "cult of conspiracy"? Where's the conspiracy in this well funded industry?

Were someone to post a list of the approaches that have been made, the concerted efforts toward actually convincing a district attorney or judge to even look seriously at masses of evidence that have been brought to their attention even if the DA has rejected it all out of hand, we could maybe actually believe that someone really does want to do something rather than simply to remain respected and "famous" for calling out for something to be done.

Well, of course you want me to tell you that we've approached Dallas DA Craig Watkins and convinced him to convein a grand jury to review the evience in the Tippit murder, or the other cold case unsolved homicides related to the assassination in his jurisdicition, but then he's your DA, isn't he? All those convicted criminals that he released because they were exonerated by DNA evidence were not only innocent, someone else committed those crimes and got off because the wrong man was convicted. Now whose going to properly investigate those cold case crimes and get the right killers, especially the real murders of JFK and JDT?

And what do you mean saying that my motive is "simply to remain respected and 'famous" for calling out for something to be done"? You slap me in the face and then stab me in the back. I thought fame was what the accused assassin was seeking?

'Cuz y'know, if something ever is done, and we ever do find out who shot Jack, then there won't be anymore books, no more conferences, lectures, guest appearances, documentaries and railing against the Establishment from atop the grassy knoll, and nobody even selling cheesy newspaper there anymore.

From the very first ASK conference in Dallas I said that it was possible to solve the case rather than just discuss it, and that no more conferences would be necessary. But there will always be people going to the Grassy Knoll and selling cheesy newspapers.

One wonders: are answers, finally nailing the perp or perps, actually antithetical to our <ahem!> stated purposes? What are we going to do then?!?

Then we can have a party and someone can offer a toast to all those who sought the truth from the very beginning and didn't live long enough to see the final legal resolution of the case, and the restoration of democracy and our national security.

Bill Kelly

THANK YOU BILL KELLY FOR ALL YOU DO. I had not seen this post and you answers are spot on. I know we all have overly busy lives but we need to heed what BK says here. (imho)

Dawn