Zfilm Revisited

[Chris Davidson]

Since I couldn't find my animation topic, but this is part of the Zfilm revisited, here's another splendid display by the animator's.

Little Linda Willis ran so quickly to catch the limo, she um um um.

Well, you can decide what happens to her body. (Red Arrow)

It's a shame anyone believes this film is unaltered.

chris

P.S.

Another sign of cell frame animation would be the (straight leg movement) sync of the 2 women in front of Linda Willis.

Chris...these frames are notable because they do not show TINA TOWNER FILMING. Please do a

comparison with the Tina Towner film. Check the locations of the two motorcycles in relation to Zapruder,

and tell us which Z frames represent Tina frames. By finding line of sight between motorcycles and JFK in

Towner film and comparing Z and T, you will see that Tina HAS TO BE IN ZAPRUDER.

I have done this in the past, but I want to see your take on it.

Thanks.

Jack

Jack,

Not sure I understand your request using the Towner film. Her film ends before we see the Z pedestal.

I did this if it helps.

1. Tina Towner shows her filming position as the limo passed by.

2. Footage from the 6th floor with superimposed Dorman composited frames for Towner's approx. location, while she was filming the limo.

3. Frame from my movie, aligned with a Zframe, then cloned the corner people from Z into mine.

The red arrows point to the man in the blue conductors uniform.

chris

Edited May 25, 2008 by Chris Davidson

[Jack White]

Chris...even according to this poorly done reconstruction photo (which does not show

Tina far enough north into the street), clearly she is located in a position where

she should be seen from the pedestal. If she can see the pedestal, then anyone

on the pedestal should see her.

Jack

[Jack White]

Another study.

[Jack White]

Another. I know, Dorman and Zapruder have different views...but I still

believe the Towners were far enough in the street to be seen from the

pedestal.

Jack

[Jack White]

In this earlier study, I did not know that the "blonde" lady was Tina's mother.

Jack

[James R Gordon]

Jack,

Your concern may be answered by comparing the films you have identified.

From what I can see when the Towner's are seen in the Dorman film the lead motorcycles have yet to complete their turn onto Elm Street even though they may have begun it.

Second, and my perspective may be wrong, it appears to me that the Towners are more towards the Houston side of the corner than that Elm side.

Since there are a few people standing below where the Towners are seen in Dorman it may well be that Zapruder would not be able to see them.

The frame from Zapruder that you have presented appears to be around Z100. That would be around 6 seconds later.

I suggest that the only frame that you could use to compare with the Doorman frame would be Z1.

From what I can see, if you look at Z1, you will see feet on the road at around the spot Dorman places the Towners.

Therefore, you may well be wrong. Zapruder may well be showing them.

James.

[Jack White]

Here is a 1998 observation which has never been satisfactorily

explained. I do not have the frame number handy, but it is cropped

from an readily identifiable z frame. For one frame only, an odd

BLACK TRAPEZOID SHAPE appears on Main Street. Can anyone

explain it?

Jack

[Jack White]

Here she is.

Duncan

Duncan...you could be correct* on this EARLY frame which shows the first group

of motorcycles. I am referring to the filming of the JFK limo as it turns the corner

and WHEN TINA AND JIM STEP FAR OFF THE CURB AND JIM IS WEST OF TINA.

When Tina is filming the limo going west on Elm, she is much farther north,

and Jim is west of her...not the same positions of the frame you posted.

Find her (and Jim) in a frame where the limo is on Elm, not Houston.

Thanks.

Jack

*In further consideration, I believe the blue sweater is a better identifier,

and in the frame you posted, Tina is next to Jim. I cannot find a person

with the white sox you point to as Tina.

Edited May 25, 2008 by Jack White

[Jack White]

Duncan...the white sox you pointed to belong to the #3 lady in Dorman.

Jack

[Chris Davidson]

Jack,

Take a look and let me know.

In Dorman, Betzner is standing behind the Towner's, but his LOS is RRman. PROBLEM

Betzner's shadow appears in his own photograph. It has to, it's the only one in Dorman that's near the Towner's, but doesn't reach the street.

Betzner's photo shows his own shadow to the LEFT of the Towners. PROBLEM

Dorman shows Betzner's shadow to the RIGHT of the Towners. PROBLEM

The only other shadow that comes close to Betzner's is the girl who comes running directly behind him. But her shadow doesn't extend out as far.

The end of the animation shows Betzner finished shooting his photo. His LOS is still RRman.

chris

Edited May 26, 2008 by Chris Davidson

[Bill Miller]

Chris...even according to this poorly done reconstruction photo (which does not show

Tina far enough north into the street), clearly she is located in a position where

she should be seen from the pedestal. If she can see the pedestal, then anyone

on the pedestal should see her.

Jack

I thought you didn't believe that anyone was ever on the pedestal.

Bill

[Bill Miller]

Let me ask you if the footprints found in the 3' x 2' space ... were they made during the shooting or do you not know?

It had rained earlier in the morning of Nov. 22. So, sometime during or after that rain shoe prints were imprinted in the 2' by 3' muddy area between the picket fence & the parked car. If the person or persons who made the shoe prints departed this area before the shooting, then they did not do the shooting & one of them, therefore, was not Hatman, in which case Hatman as seen in Moorman is not a human. The barrel between the slats theory becomes stuck in the mud & is seen as patent Nonsense.

And was there spaces between the parked cars so someone could go around one and walk up to the fence??

Yes, the person or persons who made the shoe prints in the mud were not getting out of & back into the trunk of the car. Neither had they jumped over the fence from its south side. If Hatman was standing out of the muddy area & was standing between the cars, then he was standing in a space even more cramped than if he were standing in the muddy area. If Hatman rests his rifle barrel between the slats he is forced into a cramped position in which his movement is blocked & obstructed, standing between the cars or standing in the muddy area. For that reason (and for all the accumulated many other reasons) he does NOT rest his barrel between the slats.

Thanks ... merely saying non-meaningful things by not answering the question tells people something. Thanks again!

Now seeing that you cannot tell at what point the footprints were made or if the Hat Man is positioned between two cars ...

Are you ridiculing your own theory?

it appears that your post fell under the weight of your own trolling.

No, yours did.

So once again ... you don't know if the assassin merely walked between two cars and up to the fence or if he was standing behind a car. And to limit confusion ... you have argued that Hat Man never existed and now it appears that you are arguing that he couldn't have fired a shot ... would you like to take a moment to get it straight in your own mind if there was a Hat Man at all in the first place.

And while you are at it ... are you sure you wish to use an illustration showing the car almost directly below the shooting location and not further east up the street as Moorman's photo shows???

Bill Miller

[Chris Davidson]

Jack,

Take a look and let me know.

In Dorman, Betzner is standing behind the Towner's, but his LOS is RRman. PROBLEM

Betzner's shadow appears in his own photograph. It has to, it's the only one in Dorman that's near the Towner's, but doesn't reach the street.

Betzner's photo shows his own shadow to the LEFT of the Towners. PROBLEM

Dorman shows Betzner's shadow to the RIGHT of the Towners. PROBLEM

The only other shadow that comes close to Betzner's is the girl who comes running directly behind him. But her shadow doesn't extend out as far.

The end of the animation shows Betzner finished shooting his photo. His LOS is still RRman.

chris

I was wrong. That isn't Betzner's shadow in his own photograph.

One last question:

The light we see at the bottom of Mrs.Towner's legs in Dorman, because her feet are spread apart, where is it in Betzner?

chris

[Jack White]

Chris...even according to this poorly done reconstruction photo (which does not show

Tina far enough north into the street), clearly she is located in a position where

she should be seen from the pedestal. If she can see the pedestal, then anyone

on the pedestal should see her.

Jack

I thought you didn't believe that anyone was ever on the pedestal.

Bill

Miller has no idea what I believe.

Jack

[Miles Scull]

Miller has no idea what I believe.

Jack

LOL!!! Let me ask you if the footprints found in the 3' x 2' space ... were they made during the shooting or do you not know? And was there spaces between the parked cars so someone could go around one and walk up to the fence?? Now seeing that you cannot tell at what point the footprints were made or if the Hat Man is positioned between two cars ... it appears that your post fell under the weight of your own trolling.

Bill Miller

This post has been edited by Bill Miller: Yesterday, 04:12 AM

Mr. MORRISON - Mr. Holland, is there anything you might add to this?

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, the only thing that I remember now that I didn't then, I remember about the third car down from this fence, there was a station wagon backed up toward the fence, about the third car down, and a spot, I'd say 3 foot by 2 foot , looked to me like somebody had been standing there for a long period. I guess if you could count them about a hundred foottracks in that little spot, and also mud upon the bumper of that station wagon.

Mr. STERN - When you ran behind the picket fence after the shots were fired, did you come near the area where the station wagon was parked?

Mr. HOLLAND - Went up to behind the arcade as far as you could go.

Mr. STERN - So, you would have passed where this station wagon was?

Mr. HOLLAND - Yes.

Mr. STERN - Or, that area?

Mr. HOLLAND - Yes; immediately, but I turned around, see, and went to searching in there for empty shells, and three or four agents there then and that is when I walked back to the ear there and noticed the tracks there in one little spot.

Mr. STERN - And did you notice anything about this station wagon?

Mr. HOLLAND - I was in front of the cars, then I went in front of the cars.

Mr. STERN - In front of the cars---

Mr. HOLLAND - The cars they were parked pretty close to the fence, and I came up in front of the cars and got over to the fence and then walked back down looking around, just like the rest of them.

Mr. STERN - And that was later you came behind the station wagon?

Mr. HOLLAND - Oh, maybe 3 or 4 minutes after I got up there, and 3 or 4 minutes after I got up to the end of the fence.

Mr. STERN - This number of cars, this is an area in which cars are regularly parked?

Mr. HOLLAND - Yes.

The 2' by 3' muddy area where many footprints were found impressed into the mud was located between the car & the picket fence: NOT between the cars.

If the sniper is standing in the muddy area & if he attempts to rest his rifle barrel between the slats, then he finds that because of the length of the rifle he does not have room or enough space between the car & the fence to remain standing within the locus of the 2' by 3' muddy area observed by Holland.

In other words, the length of the rifle requires that the sniper step out of the muddy area & to move to a position between the cars. Thus, he will find the standing room needed to effect resting the rifle barrel between the fence slats while at the same time he aims at his "target zone" & waits for the limo to appear suddenly in that narrow zone.

BM finds this reasonable. See his comment quoted above: "if the Hat Man is positioned between two cars"

But, there is a major problem here.

If the sniper is standing between the cars (outside of the muddy trampled area observed by Holland) & waiting for the appearance of the limo for some time, then why were no foot prints found between the cars?

The answer is: Because no one stood between the cars. No one stood for any length of time there, pacing, stamping there as he waited for the pot-shot at the flash target. And, of course, he would have had to have stood there for a length of time because he did not know in advance when the target would flash into view, i.e. his view. So, he would have had to have left a second little muddy trampled area beside the area Holland saw. But Holland only saw one such area.

If Hatman was a shooter, then he did not rest his barrel between the slats. And if he he did not rest his barrel between the slats, then his hat is too low on the fence top to show someone firing OVER the fence. Thus, Hatman is not a shooter.

QED

The "barrel between the slats theory" is worse than the magic bullet theory. Pernicious nonsense.

Edit: spelling

Edited May 26, 2008 by Miles Scull