A Lesson in Math

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Chris;

Will get back to you on that!

Onward!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges from the window ledge of a tower which is about 30 feet high.

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In event no one has yet to catch on, the date of the above questioning of Frazier & Simmons, occured on March 31, 1964.

The date of the WC re-enactment was not until May 24, 1964.

The figures which Eisenberg gave to Frazier as well as to Simmons:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0139a.htm

Are "slope/gun to target" distances, not horizontal distances as Frazier (or someone) has on the drawing.

As well as the fact that they differ from those distances as determined by the SS & FBI, who did not take into consideration the actual height of the target above the pavement in computation of exact distances and angles.

Nevertheless, one may want to again look at the "Best Evidence" for the Z313 impact, which is in fact relatively accurate.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

"Line of Sight Dist. K-R" (Kennedy to Rifle): Z313----------265.3 feet.

(guess what?)

Not only that, but CE884 & Mr. West's relatively accurate work for the WC, will also give us additional information if one looks closely.

Z207 "Line of Sight Dist. K-R"-----------174.9 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A quick refresher:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...7475entry137475

Additionally, the Eisenberg drawing information as provided to FBI Agent Frazier on 3/27/64 clearly demonstrates that the height difference of JFK's head above Elm St. as well as the rifle height in the window were items which had to be considered.

So, either Eisenberg was also a math major, or else someone who recognized that the SS & FBI surveys were lacking in this detail, was coaching him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...t=0&start=0

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/wcsbt.htm

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

Subject: Conference of April 14, 1964, to determine which

frames in the Zapruder movies show the impact of

the first and second bullets

---------------------------------------------------------

A screening was held of the Zapruder film and of slides

prepared by LIFE from the film. Each slide corresponded with a

separate frame of film, beginning with frame 171. The consensus of

the meeting was as follows:

(a) The President had been definitely hit by frames 224-225,

when he emerges from behind a sign with his hands clutching his

throat.

( The reaction shown in frames 224-225 may have started at

an earlier point - possibly as early as frame 199 (when there appears

to be some jerkiness in his movement) or, with a higher degree of

possibility, at frames 204-206 (where his right elbow appears to be

raised to an artificially high position).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(to be continued)

to be continued

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...t=0&start=0

(A quick refresher for the 25+ year researcher and film reviewer)

but yet Purvis places the first shot beyond the witnesses statements.

Is that so?

Just in case you were either sleeping or in continuation of your "research" into the witness statements and photographic evidence, (or more likely suffer reading comprehension problems)

Purvis states that the first shot was fired at approximately Z204 to Z206.

Which by the way, Purvis got from the Time/Life Survey Plat, which, with original film and absolute first generation copy of the Z-film, Time/Life had Mr. Robert West survey personnel mark on Elm St. as well as was drawn up on the Time/Life Survey Plat.

Now, in event that you were an actual "researcher", somewhere in that 25 years down in a rabbit hole, it should have dawned on you the critical importance of the survey work in Dealy Plaza.

And, since Mr. West died only a few years back, it makes one wonder exactly what level of "researher" who actually lives in Dallas, would have never recognized the importance of his various works and made some effort to contact and speak with him.

Personally, I drove all the way from Ft. Stockton, TX to visit with him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but yet Purvis places the first shot beyond the witnesses statements.

Is that so?

Just in case you were either sleeping or in continuation of your "research" into the witness statements and photographic evidence, (or more likely suffer reading comprehension problems)

Purvis states that the first shot was fired at approximately Z204 to Z206.

Which by the way, Purvis got from the Time/Life Survey Plat, which, with original film and absolute first generation copy of the Z-film, Time/Life had Mr. Robert West survey personnel mark on Elm St. as well as was drawn up on the Time/Life Survey Plat.

Now, in event that you were an actual "researcher", somewhere in that 25 years down in a rabbit hole, it should have dawned on you the critical importance of the survey work in Dealy Plaza.

And, since Mr. West died only a few years back, it makes one wander exactly what level of "researher" who actuall lives in Dallas, would have never recognized the importance of his various works and made some effort to contact and speak with him.

Personally, I drove all the way from Ft. Stockton, TX to visit with him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Z313 stationing:------------------------------465.3 feet from control station, rife to Kennedy distance 265.3 feet.

Z207 stationing:------------------------------371.1 feet from control station, rifle to Kennedy distance 174.9 feet.

Distance between points:---------------------94.2 feet.

Elapsed frames of Z-film: 106

Edited June 8, 2008 by Thomas H. Purvis

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. The time the speed of the moving object was calculated on the basis of an assumed 5.5-second interval for a distance of 90 feet, which figures out mathematically to be 11.3 miles per hour.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S. Frazier most assuredly was not a "math major".

Mr. FRAZIER - The time of flight of the bullet of approximately 8/100ths of a second and, again, it was necessary to assume the time of flight of the bullet from the window to this first location of 175 feet is approximately 8/100ths of a second, which means a 2-foot lead on the target. That is, the target would move 2 feet in that interval of time, thereby necessitating shooting slightly ahead of the target to hit your aiming point.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 feet of distance travelled in 8/100ths second = 0.25 feet travelled in 1/100th second.

Which thereafter computes to 25 feet of distance travelled in 100/100ths second. (aka one second).

25 feet per second comes to approximately 17.045 mph.

--------------------------------------

Mr. FRAZIER - 2 feet in front of the target, which would interpolate into a much lower actual elevation change.

Mr. EISENBERG - The elevation change would be 2 inches, is that it?

Mr. FRAZIER - Well, no. It would be on the order of 6 to 8 inches.

Mr. EISENBERG - 6 to 8 inches?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG - What was your 2-inch figure?

Mr. FRAZIER - I don't recall.

Mr. EISENBERG - But it is 6 to 8 inches in elevation?

Mr. FRAZIER - Well it would be necessary to hold the crosshairs an estimated distance off the target, of say, 6 inches over the intended, target, so what when the shot was fired the crosshairs should be located about 6 inches over your target, and in the length of time that the bullet was in the air and the length of time the object was moving, the object would move into actually, the path of the bullet in approximately 1/10th to 13/100ths of a second.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I would have hoped that some of these "shooter's" who continously pop in and out of this forum would have taken the time and effort to have checked this one out!

------------------------------------------------------------------

8/100ths second of elapsed time at approximately 11.08 mph average speed (not Frazier's 11.3) = 16.26283 fps X 0.08 =

1.3 feet of lateral distance in bullet time of flight.

1.3 = .65% of 2-feet, which when applied to the 6 inch to 8 inch stated elevation lead, would come to 3.9 to 5.2 inches of lead were the target travelling in a flat plane away from the shooter.

Mr. FRAZIER - He would aim from 4 to 6 inches--approximately 2 inches, I would say, above the President's head, which would be actually 6 inches above his aiming point at the center of the head.

Therefore, if one applies all factors, in order to strike JFK in the rear center of the head, one would merely aim at the very top of the head and pull the trigger. (provided of course that the rifle/scope were zeroed for the approximate range)

And, I am not even a "Scout Sniper"!

But, I was a math major!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Tom,

Remember the Drommer revision you warned me about, take a look at the red arrows which point to the non-matching curbline between Myer's work and the Drommer plat. The Houston St. curblines seem to match up fine, along with the wall, etc, etc.

In regards to the mis-matched curbline span:

Myer's has the limo in Towner traveling a distance of (yellow type) 40 ft.

I believe it is actually closer to(my RED LINES) 70 FT.

Part of the Revision??

thanks

chris

Chris;

I know nothing about the concrete curb.

However, in event that it has been torn out and replaced, this would of course be quite convenient.

Especially since, as I informed you long ago, within this section of curb is where Mr. West established his horizontal control station as well as having established his vertical/elevation control when actual elevation was carried in from the BM across over across Houston St.

So. the absolutely first survey control station established for the SS Survey work of 12/3 & 12/4 (Survey Plat dated 12/5/63),

has now been torn out in event that this curb has actually changed.

As to Towner's position, I have never "backplotted" it as I do not have the necessary frames of the film to do so.

And, unless there are at least sufficient points of alignment, then one can only "come close".

The entire radius of Houston onto Elm St. is too big to copy and get posted, and I only recently began to tape back together the WC Survey Plats which I long ago cut up just to get this far. (History forgive me!).

However, I can make some limited copies of portions which may serve to demonstrate what you are looking for.

If I ultimately make sufficient smaller size area copies with sufficient overlap, then they should be of benefit to you as Mr. West appears to have done some excellent work in completion of this area on the survey plat.

I will try something and post it back over on your topic, and we will see how it comes out.

Tom

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet,

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

Repetitious, I am aware!

Nevertheless, one can always learn something new and revealing when sufficient points are correlated into their proper perspective.

Such as the fact that Melvin Eisenberg was giving Frazier & Simmons a first shot slant distance of 175 when absolutely no source had stated such a distance.

And, of course, "we" would not/should not have known exactly where a slope distance of 175 feet fell, until such time as the WC gave us the absolutely "corrected" distance from the rifle to Kennedy in which Z207 falls at a distance of 174.9 feet, with all elevation corrections due to the height of JFK above the pavement added in.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet,

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

Repetitious, I am aware!

Nevertheless, one can always learn something new and revealing when sufficient points are correlated into their proper perspective.

Such as the fact that Melvin Eisenberg was giving Frazier & Simmons a first shot slant distance of 175 when absolutely no source had stated such a distance.

And, of course, "we" would not/should not have known exactly where a slope distance of 175 feet fell, until such time as the WC gave us the absolutely "corrected" distance from the rifle to Kennedy in which Z207 falls at a distance of 174.9 feet, with all elevation corrections due to the height of JFK above the pavement added in.

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

And, of course, "we" would not/should not have known exactly where a slope distance of 175 feet fell, until such time as the WC gave us the absolutely "corrected" distance from the rifle to Kennedy in which Z207 falls at a distance of 174.9 feet, with all elevation corrections due to the height of JFK above the pavement added in.

==================================================================

But we do, and that is why the Z207 position is most probably an accurate representation of JFK's actual position at Z207!

As stated long ago during discussion of the Survey Data, the Time/Life Survey was borderline "cartoon character" stuff as Charles Breneman actually did very little that was in fact accurate.

However, he did place a nail in Elm St. for the location of the shots fired, as determined by those Time/Life personnel who were looking at the film and positioning the survey personnel.

Therefore, on/in Elm St. there was an existing nail which had been placed there by Charles Breneman.

After Mr. West had completed the Time/Life Survey work in December 1963, as well as the virtual repeat of this work for the FBI in February 1964, he no doubt thought that he was relatively through with this episode in life.

However, Mr. West received a request to "re-do" the Time/Life work for the first shot, utilizing those items of information gained from the SS/FBI works which the inaccuracies of the Time/Life work had not corrected for.

As stated elsewhere, the Time/Life work of Breneman was severely lacking in that:

1. It utilized an incorrect elevation for the height of the sixth floor window.

2. It did not calculate angles beyone the "minute", whereas accuracy requires it to the "second".

3. It often did not even carry distances to the nearest 0.1 feet, and merely rounded off.

4. All angles and elevations were shot from a single common control station (which happened to be the impact location for the first shot fired), without benefit of alternative SCP's in which the person who drew the plat could cross-check against.

5. Breneman did not take into consideration elevation changes in Elm St.

6. Breneman did not take into consieration JFK's actual height above Elm St.

Nevertheless, the attached survey notes of Mr. West have never been seen BY ANYONE (other than of course Mr. West, who gave them to me).

At some point after the FBI work of 2/7/64, Mr. West received a request to "re-figure' the angle and distances for the Time/Life first shot impact, utilizing that accurate information gained from the SS & FBI works, which included the correct height of the sixth floor window; the corrections for the slope of Elm St;, and even something which neither the SS nor FBI had done.

Correct for the elevation of JFK's head above Elm St.

Mr. West's recollection of the exact nature of this request was vague, and only that it was after the FBI work and prior to the WC Work, and that he was informed that it was for the Time/Life Work, or that it was to verify something in regards to the Time/Life work.

Nevertheless, Mr. West took personnel back over into Dealey Plaza, found the nail which Charles Breneman had installed at the Time/Life determined location for shot#1, and thereafter made an accurate survey of this information, to include all those corrections within the SS & FBI works, as well as a correction for the height of JFK above the pavement.

ALL DONE PRIOR TO THE WC HAVING DONE THE EXACT SAME THING!

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

Now, if only I could recall where I have seen a distance which was similar!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

Subject: Conference of April 14, 1964, to determine which

frames in the Zapruder movies show the impact of

the first and second bullets

---------------------------------------------------------

A screening was held of the Zapruder film and of slides

prepared by LIFE from the film. Each slide corresponded with a

separate frame of film, beginning with frame 171. The consensus of

the meeting was as follows:

(a) The President had been definitely hit by frames 224-225,

when he emerges from behind a sign with his hands clutching his

throat.

( The reaction shown in frames 224-225 may have started at

an earlier point - possibly as early as frame 199 (when there appears

to be some jerkiness in his movement) or, with a higher degree of

possibility, at frames 204-206 (where his right elbow appears to be

raised to an artificially high position).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

A truly sad state of affairs when someone unavoidably tells the truths, yet those listening are so deep in the rabbit holes that they do not even hear.

Hey BM! Learning anything in regards to proper research protocal????????????????

Have you figured out yet that the "Altgens" re-enactment photo was not taken from the same location as James Altgens was actually standing?

Wanna know why?

http://www.jfklancer.com/History-Z.html

May 12: National Archives acknowledges receipt of 323 Zapruder frame "color transparencies" (slides) and the "first and second generation copies" of the film from Time Incorporated, available for viewing only on the premises of the National Archives. (Archives Change of Holdings Report) The slides in the original set were made by Time-LIFE. The set included frames 164 through 483, except for the missing frame 349.

---------------------------------------

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there.

--------------------------------------

My name is Tom Purvis, not suprisingly, I refer to myself as a JFK assassination researcher.

It took me all of about 10 to 15 seconds of looking at the WC re-enactment photo of the James Altgens photo, to recognize that the re-enactment photo was not taken from the same alignment position as James Altgens was actually standing.

And, I do not claim any great expertise in photo examination.

It took several hours of reading/research/coupled with reading comprehension, to determine that many of the witness statements accurately reported that the shot to the head of JFk at Z313 was in fact the second shot fired, as well as finding other witnesses who not only told where the Presidential Limo/JFK was located at the time of the third shot, but also of having observed this shot strike JFK as well.

It actually took about 40-hours of reading research to resolve exactly how CE399 came to exist. However, not unlike the Altgens issue, it took all of 10 seconds to recognized that a portion of the copper jacket at the base of the bullet was now missing as well as recognition that it was intentionally removed by some mechanical means.

Personally, I have never been recognized by the "Mary Ferrell" award/foundation, although my long ago written chapter on the altered WC survey data as well as the "VEHICLE SPEED ANALYSIS" are now a part of their stored information.

I would further state that in even that were I to ever (however unlikely) be offered the "Mary Ferrell Award", that I would have to decline, as it would too closely associate me with some relatively well known wannabee's Scout Snipers from Marathon Station, as well as others who can seem to only profess to being a researcher into the facts of the JFK assassination.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Questions?

[David G. Healy]

Questions?

sure....

"...

ALL DONE PRIOR TO THE WC HAVING DONE THE EXACT SAME THING!

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

Now, if only I could recall where I have seen a distance which was similar!"

[...]

has your memory recalled where, Tom? (I'm sure Bill Miller is sitting at the edge of seat, too.)

Edited June 11, 2008 by David G. Healy

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Questions?

sure....

"...

ALL DONE PRIOR TO THE WC HAVING DONE THE EXACT SAME THING!

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

Now, if only I could recall where I have seen a distance which was similar!"

[...]

has your memory recalled where, Tom? (I'm sure Bill Miller is sitting at the edge of seat, too.)

Would this be close enough?

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Questions?

sure....

"...

ALL DONE PRIOR TO THE WC HAVING DONE THE EXACT SAME THING!

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

Now, if only I could recall where I have seen a distance which was similar!"

[...]

has your memory recalled where, Tom? (I'm sure Bill Miller is sitting at the edge of seat, too.)

Would this be close enough?

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUESDAY; MARCH 31, 1964

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges from the window ledge of a tower which is about 30 feet high

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Personally!

I always disliked a "cheater" who already had answers to the test before the test even came out.

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

[David G. Healy]

Questions?

sure....

"...

ALL DONE PRIOR TO THE WC HAVING DONE THE EXACT SAME THING!

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

Now, if only I could recall where I have seen a distance which was similar!"

[...]

has your memory recalled where, Tom? (I'm sure Bill Miller is sitting at the edge of seat, too.)

Would this be close enough?

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUESDAY; MARCH 31, 1964

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges from the window ledge of a tower which is about 30 feet high

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Personally!

I always disliked a "cheater" who already had answers to the test before the test even came out.

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

great material, Tom....

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Questions?

sure....

"...

ALL DONE PRIOR TO THE WC HAVING DONE THE EXACT SAME THING!

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

Now, if only I could recall where I have seen a distance which was similar!"

[...]

has your memory recalled where, Tom? (I'm sure Bill Miller is sitting at the edge of seat, too.)

Would this be close enough?

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUESDAY; MARCH 31, 1964

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges from the window ledge of a tower which is about 30 feet high

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Personally!

I always disliked a "cheater" who already had answers to the test before the test even came out.

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

great material, Tom....

great material, Tom....

You sweet-talking devil!

Let me check, as there may just be an additional "furry feline" left in the bottom of the sack which should also be yanked out!

Back to March 1964

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

MEOW!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

1. A distance of 175 feet is the distance of the first shot to impact point of JFK as determined during the Time/Life Survey work utilizing the original/first generation copy of the Z-film.

The distance has been "corrected" from the erroneous information which Charles Breneman measured, as well as having taken into consideration the height of JFK above the pavement.

This impact position is virtually at Z207 and correlates with as shot fired in the Z204/Z206 time frame, which also correlates with the "jiggle/blur analysis", as well as correlation with the examination of the Zapruder film in regards to JFK's reaction.

----------------------------------------------

April 22, 1964

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

Subject: Conference of April 14, 1964, to determine which

frames in the Zapruder movies show the impact of

the first and second bullets

( The reaction shown in frames 224-225 may have started at

an earlier point - possibly as early as frame 199 (when there appears

to be some jerkiness in his movement) or, with a higher degree of

possibility, at frames 204-206 (where his right elbow appears to be

raised to an artificially high position).

----------------------------------------------------

3. The distance of 265 feet is the "corrected" slant distance of the Z313 headshot, with the "elevation" of JFK's head above the pavement added into the equation.

This true slant distance was not officially determined until the WC work in May 1964.

However, with the relatively accurate SS & FBI survey information, all that one has to do would be to add in the height of target (JFK's head above pavement), and easily calculate this figure.

2. The "240" foot distance is in fact 242 feet as shown on the survey plat which was given to Ronald Simmons, which is of course the FBI Survey plat of 2/7/64.

This is the FBI "FIB" in which the SS work of 12/5/63 in which the impact of the Z313 position was made to disappear, and the FBI/JEH & Company, thereafter moved (on paper) a shot and attempted to sell that JBC was hit at the 240-foot mark and that the Z313 impact was made to disappear, yet the survey plat still demonstrated the Altgens impact location.

This, not unlike a brick, neither flew nor swam!

Primarly due to the fact that it did not, and could not account for all of JBC's antics shortly after having come out from behind the road sign, as well as the extremely short distance/elapsed time on Elm St. for a shot to have struck JBC at a 240 foot slope distance and then the last shot to struck JFK only 25-feet farther down the street.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of which demonstrates that the WC had that information/knowledge which clearly demonstrated that they knew exactly when the first shot was fired, as determined by Time/Life on November 26, 1963.

All of which demonstrates that the WC had that information relative to exactly when the SS as well as FBI demonstrated the impact of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens position, as this position is clearly platted on the SS as well as the FBI Survey Plats, and did not change.

All of which demonstrates the beginnings of the WC lie in that they knew that the Z313 impact location was correct for one of the shots, that the survey plats showed the impact of the third/Altgens Shot, that the Time/Life as well as SS & FBI works showed the location of the first shot, and yet the FBI/aka the WC is now attempting to sell the impact location of some mythical shot in which the slope distance was 240-feet.

Quite obviously, no one has ever correlated the importance of that information which Melvin Eisenberg has "let out of the bag" in regards to exactly what the WC fully knew and how they proceeded to cover it up.

Just perhaps, the "cats in the bag" have now turned into a TIGER* for the WC.

*HUSTLER MAGAZINE definition of TIGER: A 400 pound P***y that will eat you!

Edited June 13, 2008 by Thomas H. Purvis

[David G. Healy]

Questions?

sure....

"...

ALL DONE PRIOR TO THE WC HAVING DONE THE EXACT SAME THING!

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

Now, if only I could recall where I have seen a distance which was similar!"

[...]

has your memory recalled where, Tom? (I'm sure Bill Miller is sitting at the edge of seat, too.)

Would this be close enough?

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUESDAY; MARCH 31, 1964

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges from the window ledge of a tower which is about 30 feet high

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Personally!

I always disliked a "cheater" who already had answers to the test before the test even came out.

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

great material, Tom....

great material, Tom....

You sweet-talking devil!

Let me check, as there may just be an additional "furry feline" left in the bottom of the sack which should also be yanked out!

Back to March 1964

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

MEOW!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

1. A distance of 175 feet is the distance of the first shot to impact point of JFK as determined during the Time/Life Survey work utilizing the original/first generation copy of the Z-film.

The distance has been "corrected" from the erroneous information which Charles Breneman measured, as well as having taken into consideration the height of JFK above the pavement.

This impact position is virtually at Z207 and correlates with as shot fired in the Z204/Z206 time frame, which also correlates with the "jiggle/blur analysis", as well as correlation with the examination of the Zapruder film in regards to JFK's reaction.

----------------------------------------------

April 22, 1964

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

Subject: Conference of April 14, 1964, to determine which

frames in the Zapruder movies show the impact of

the first and second bullets

( The reaction shown in frames 224-225 may have started at

an earlier point - possibly as early as frame 199 (when there appears

to be some jerkiness in his movement) or, with a higher degree of

possibility, at frames 204-206 (where his right elbow appears to be

raised to an artificially high position).

----------------------------------------------------

3. The distance of 265 feet is the "corrected" slant distance of the Z313 headshot, with the "elevation" of JFK's head above the pavement added into the equation.

This true slant distance was not officially determined until the WC work in May 1964.

However, with the relatively accurate SS & FBI survey information, all that one has to do would be to add in the height of target (JFK's head above pavement), and easily calculate this figure.

2. The "240" foot distance is in fact 242 feet as shown on the survey plat which was given to Ronald Simmons, which is of course the FBI Survey plat of 2/7/64.

This is the FBI "FIB" in which the SS work of 12/5/63 in which the impact of the Z313 position was made to disappear, and the FBI/JEH & Company, thereafter moved (on paper) a shot and attempted to sell that JBC was hit at the 240-foot mark and that the Z313 impact was made to disappear, yet the survey plat still demonstrated the Altgens impact location.

This, not unlike a brick, neither flew nor swam!

Primarly due to the fact that it did not, and could not account for all of JBC's antics shortly after having come out from behind the road sign, as well as the extremely short distance/elapsed time on Elm St. for a shot to have struck JBC at a 240 foot slope distance and then the last shot to struck JFK only 25-feet farther down the street.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of which demonstrates that the WC had that information/knowledge which clearly demonstrated that they knew exactly when the first shot was fired, as determined by Time/Life on November 26, 1963.

All of which demonstrates that the WC had that information relative to exactly when the SS as well as FBI demonstrated the impact of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens position, as this position is clearly platted on the SS as well as the FBI Survey Plats, and did not change.

All of which demonstrates the beginnings of the WC lie in that they knew that the Z313 impact location was correct for one of the shots, that the survey plats showed the impact of the third/Altgens Shot, that the Time/Life as well as SS & FBI works showed the location of the first shot, and yet the FBI/aka the WC is now attempting to sell the impact location of some mythical shot in which the slope distance was 240-feet.

Quite obviously, no one has ever correlated the importance of that information which Melvin Eisenberg has "let out of the bag" in regards to exactly what the WC fully knew and how they proceeded to cover it up.

Just perhaps, the "cats in the bag" have now turned into a TIGER* for the WC.

*HUSTLER MAGAZINE definition of TIGER: A 400 pound P***y that will eat you!

noted (Eisenberg material), tnx....

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Questions?

sure....

"...

ALL DONE PRIOR TO THE WC HAVING DONE THE EXACT SAME THING!

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

Now, if only I could recall where I have seen a distance which was similar!"

[...]

has your memory recalled where, Tom? (I'm sure Bill Miller is sitting at the edge of seat, too.)

Would this be close enough?

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TUESDAY; MARCH 31, 1964

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges from the window ledge of a tower which is about 30 feet high

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Personally!

I always disliked a "cheater" who already had answers to the test before the test even came out.

The provided drawing is the result of that work, and if one took basic trig, than they will find that the hypotenuse/slope distance for shot#1, as computed to the impact point as determined by the Time/Life Survey work of 11/25/63, was 174.80926 feet.

great material, Tom....

great material, Tom....

You sweet-talking devil!

Let me check, as there may just be an additional "furry feline" left in the bottom of the sack which should also be yanked out!

Back to March 1964

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

MEOW!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

1. A distance of 175 feet is the distance of the first shot to impact point of JFK as determined during the Time/Life Survey work utilizing the original/first generation copy of the Z-film.

The distance has been "corrected" from the erroneous information which Charles Breneman measured, as well as having taken into consideration the height of JFK above the pavement.

This impact position is virtually at Z207 and correlates with as shot fired in the Z204/Z206 time frame, which also correlates with the "jiggle/blur analysis", as well as correlation with the examination of the Zapruder film in regards to JFK's reaction.

----------------------------------------------

April 22, 1964

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

Subject: Conference of April 14, 1964, to determine which

frames in the Zapruder movies show the impact of

the first and second bullets

( The reaction shown in frames 224-225 may have started at

an earlier point - possibly as early as frame 199 (when there appears

to be some jerkiness in his movement) or, with a higher degree of

possibility, at frames 204-206 (where his right elbow appears to be

raised to an artificially high position).

----------------------------------------------------

3. The distance of 265 feet is the "corrected" slant distance of the Z313 headshot, with the "elevation" of JFK's head above the pavement added into the equation.

This true slant distance was not officially determined until the WC work in May 1964.

However, with the relatively accurate SS & FBI survey information, all that one has to do would be to add in the height of target (JFK's head above pavement), and easily calculate this figure.

2. The "240" foot distance is in fact 242 feet as shown on the survey plat which was given to Ronald Simmons, which is of course the FBI Survey plat of 2/7/64.

This is the FBI "FIB" in which the SS work of 12/5/63 in which the impact of the Z313 position was made to disappear, and the FBI/JEH & Company, thereafter moved (on paper) a shot and attempted to sell that JBC was hit at the 240-foot mark and that the Z313 impact was made to disappear, yet the survey plat still demonstrated the Altgens impact location.

This, not unlike a brick, neither flew nor swam!

Primarly due to the fact that it did not, and could not account for all of JBC's antics shortly after having come out from behind the road sign, as well as the extremely short distance/elapsed time on Elm St. for a shot to have struck JBC at a 240 foot slope distance and then the last shot to struck JFK only 25-feet farther down the street.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of which demonstrates that the WC had that information/knowledge which clearly demonstrated that they knew exactly when the first shot was fired, as determined by Time/Life on November 26, 1963.

All of which demonstrates that the WC had that information relative to exactly when the SS as well as FBI demonstrated the impact of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens position, as this position is clearly platted on the SS as well as the FBI Survey Plats, and did not change.

All of which demonstrates the beginnings of the WC lie in that they knew that the Z313 impact location was correct for one of the shots, that the survey plats showed the impact of the third/Altgens Shot, that the Time/Life as well as SS & FBI works showed the location of the first shot, and yet the FBI/aka the WC is now attempting to sell the impact location of some mythical shot in which the slope distance was 240-feet.

Quite obviously, no one has ever correlated the importance of that information which Melvin Eisenberg has "let out of the bag" in regards to exactly what the WC fully knew and how they proceeded to cover it up.

Just perhaps, the "cats in the bag" have now turned into a TIGER* for the WC.

*HUSTLER MAGAZINE definition of TIGER: A 400 pound P***y that will eat you!

noted (Eisenberg material), tnx....

Probably not to bad for someone who is just an ole "wannabe" with a credibility problem and is in all probability just jealous of all of these "Scout Snipers" who permeate these forums.

[David G. Healy]

Tom Purvis lastly:

[...]

Probably not to bad for someone who is just an ole "wannabe" with a credibility problem and is in all probability just jealous of all of these "Scout Snipers" who permeate these forums.

Not bad? An understatement at best.....You've urged on more than a few in their studies/research concerning the 11/22/63 Dealey Plaza photo/film record. So, please continue when you can!

I do notice the resident "Scout Snipers" have faded into obscurity, AGAIN. I wonder why

A major hurdle LNer's have here (and elsewhere), they can't quite comprehend there are researchers whom have NOT discounted the possibility of LHO's involvement in the assassination (either wittingly or un-wittingly). Hence, CT post photo/film theses, scenarios and research while LNer's wage a PR campaign in support of the WCR, and the status quo...

A simple fact remains: the thinking public supports (for whatever reason) a conspiracy did JFK in on 11/22/63!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Tom Purvis lastly:

[...]

Probably not to bad for someone who is just an ole "wannabe" with a credibility problem and is in all probability just jealous of all of these "Scout Snipers" who permeate these forums.

Not bad? An understatement at best.....You've urged on more than a few in their studies/research concerning the 11/22/63 Dealey Plaza photo/film record. So, please continue when you can!

I do notice the resident "Scout Snipers" have faded into obscurity, AGAIN. I wonder why

A major hurdle LNer's have here (and elsewhere), they can't quite comprehend there are researchers whom have NOT discounted the possibility of LHO's involvement in the assassination (either wittingly or un-wittingly). Hence, CT post photo/film theses, scenarios and research while LNer's wage a PR campaign in support of the WCR, and the status quo...

A simple fact remains: the thinking public supports (for whatever reason) a conspiracy did JFK in on 11/22/63!

A simple fact remains: the thinking public supports (for whatever reason) a conspiracy did JFK in on 11/22/63!

In that, there is little doubt that they are corret.

(a) One way or another, a conspiracy is absolutely responsible for the death of JFK.

( And thereafter, a conspiracy is, beyond any doubt, responsible for the death of LHO.

© And then, a completely unrelated conspiracty is responsible for the WC fantasyland story.

And, although (a) & ( are most certainly related, this does not mean that © is also a part of this.

Politicans lie for political reasons! (& gain I might add)