The Education Forum

# A Lesson in Math

## Recommended Posts

• Replies 45
• Created

#### Popular Days

Perhaps one should have utilized the "plural" version. IE: Cats

Cat#1

A curious cat just may wonder:

Although the actual drawing shows only two lines to two impact points at the 175 foot slope distance and the 265 foot slope distance, one should be most curious as to exactly why Frazier's drawing also has calculations for "lead" and "time of flight" to the 300 foot distance.

Especially since:

Slope distance to the Altgens impact point/aka true third shot impact point, as determined by the US Secret Service as well as the FBI, was 294 feet, whereas the Z313 impact slope distance was 267 feet.

One may also wonder exactly why Eisenberg never asked Frazier anything relative to this "300" foot distance, considering that Eisenberg provided all of the information/data to Frazier in order that this little gem could be made.

##### Share on other sites

Cat#2

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Most should recall that Z313 was located at survey stationing 4+65.3, which was 465.3 feet from a control station established back up in the center of the Elm St./Houston St. intersection.

As well as the fact that Z313 was at street elevation 418.48.

Which merely serves to indicate that the 265' distance is as relates to Z313.

##### Share on other sites

Cat#2

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Most should recall that Z313 was located at survey stationing 4+65.3, which was 465.3 feet from a control station established back up in the center of the Elm St./Houston St. intersection.

As well as the fact that Z313 was at street elevation 418.48.

Which merely serves to indicate that the 265' distance is as relates to Z313.

Now! If one will look closely at the Frazier drawing of that information provided to him by Melvin Eisenberg, they will find that Frazer wrote that the vehicle traversed 90 feet in 5.5 seconds, for a speed of 16.3 feet per second. (it actually comes to 16.363636 feet per second)

Which ultimately comes to 11.157 mph.

Mr. EISENBERG - And that table also shows leads at other car speeds?

Mr. FRAZIER - This table I could calculate them--it only shows miles per hour translated into feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - I mean, does it show various miles per hour?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; it shows miles per hour in feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - Without going into detail at this time, may I have permission to introduce this table into evidence?

Mr. McCLOY - It may be admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG - This will be Commission Exhibit 560.

(The item identified as Commission Exhibit No. 560 was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Now, Mr. Frazier, in the construction of this table and also in your last tests for rapid fire for this rifle, you used a five-and-a-half second figure as a factor in your calculations, and in your attempt at rapid fire accuracy placements. Can you give us the source of that figure?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. You were the source of it, based on examination, as I understood it, of a movie taken at the scene, and measurements taken at the scene. However, I have no knowledge of the actual time.

Mr. EISENBERG - For the record, I just wanted to establish that this is a source that was supplied by the Commission and which is tentative, and it is not to imply any final conclusion on the part of the FBI; is that correct?

Mr. FRAZIER - I hope it is taken that way, because we don't know what the time actually was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me correct you if I may Mr. Eisenberg!

"that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and second shots was 5 1/2 seconds."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the "Eisenberg" info gives us several baselines from which to work, when one has all of the other pertinent information.

First off, lets take the "90" feet between shots.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. The time the speed of the moving object was calculated on the basis of an assumed 5.5-second interval for a distance of 90 feet, which figures out mathematically to be 11.3 miles per hour.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. FRAZIER - No--window sill--60-foot window sill height above the ground, with an assumed 2- foot height in addition to accommodate the height of the rifle above the possible. the possible height of the rifle above the window sill.

The horizontal line extends outward from the building to a small rectangular block, and then a sloping line illustrates a 5-foot slope from the 175-foot point to the 265-foot point.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

##### Share on other sites

Cat#2

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Most should recall that Z313 was located at survey stationing 4+65.3, which was 465.3 feet from a control station established back up in the center of the Elm St./Houston St. intersection.

As well as the fact that Z313 was at street elevation 418.48.

Which merely serves to indicate that the 265' distance is as relates to Z313.

Now! If one will look closely at the Frazier drawing of that information provided to him by Melvin Eisenberg, they will find that Frazer wrote that the vehicle traversed 90 feet in 5.5 seconds, for a speed of 16.3 feet per second. (it actually comes to 16.363636 feet per second)

Which ultimately comes to 11.157 mph.

Mr. EISENBERG - And that table also shows leads at other car speeds?

Mr. FRAZIER - This table I could calculate them--it only shows miles per hour translated into feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - I mean, does it show various miles per hour?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; it shows miles per hour in feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - Without going into detail at this time, may I have permission to introduce this table into evidence?

Mr. McCLOY - It may be admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG - This will be Commission Exhibit 560.

(The item identified as Commission Exhibit No. 560 was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Now, Mr. Frazier, in the construction of this table and also in your last tests for rapid fire for this rifle, you used a five-and-a-half second figure as a factor in your calculations, and in your attempt at rapid fire accuracy placements. Can you give us the source of that figure?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. You were the source of it, based on examination, as I understood it, of a movie taken at the scene, and measurements taken at the scene. However, I have no knowledge of the actual time.

Mr. EISENBERG - For the record, I just wanted to establish that this is a source that was supplied by the Commission and which is tentative, and it is not to imply any final conclusion on the part of the FBI; is that correct?

Mr. FRAZIER - I hope it is taken that way, because we don't know what the time actually was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me correct you if I may Mr. Eisenberg!

"that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and second shots was 5 1/2 seconds."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the "Eisenberg" info gives us several baselines from which to work, when one has all of the other pertinent information.

First off, lets take the "90" feet between shots.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. The time the speed of the moving object was calculated on the basis of an assumed 5.5-second interval for a distance of 90 feet, which figures out mathematically to be 11.3 miles per hour.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. FRAZIER - No--window sill--60-foot window sill height above the ground, with an assumed 2- foot height in addition to accommodate the height of the rifle above the possible. the possible height of the rifle above the window sill.

The horizontal line extends outward from the building to a small rectangular block, and then a sloping line illustrates a 5-foot slope from the 175-foot point to the 265-foot point.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

???????????????????--So! What Next?

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Simmons, were your marksmen instructed to aim at the three targets in consecutive order?

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think that perhaps Mr. Eisenberg can now get in the same boat with Shaneyfelt!

Personally, I would like for all of them to be in the same boat, when it SINKS!

As for me, I recall nothing in regards to Frazier having been given anything in regards to a "240" foot slope distance shot.

Either for his drawing and/or his time of flight computations.

It would appear that "300" feet has now decided to move back up Elm St. away from James Altgens position and locate itself some 20+ feet prior to the Z313 impact.

Which of course is also the location in which the WC also "moved" James Altgens to on their "paperwork location".

Mr. LIEBELER - Looking at Commission Exhibit No. 354, we have placed you at No. 3 on that picture.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK Shaneyfelt!

You and Eisenberg need to move over and make room for another one in the boat!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But then again, I would assume that not unlike some "golden parachute", you also have a relatively good life jacket as well!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

##### Share on other sites

Cat#2

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Most should recall that Z313 was located at survey stationing 4+65.3, which was 465.3 feet from a control station established back up in the center of the Elm St./Houston St. intersection.

As well as the fact that Z313 was at street elevation 418.48.

Which merely serves to indicate that the 265' distance is as relates to Z313.

Now! If one will look closely at the Frazier drawing of that information provided to him by Melvin Eisenberg, they will find that Frazer wrote that the vehicle traversed 90 feet in 5.5 seconds, for a speed of 16.3 feet per second. (it actually comes to 16.363636 feet per second)

Which ultimately comes to 11.157 mph.

Mr. EISENBERG - And that table also shows leads at other car speeds?

Mr. FRAZIER - This table I could calculate them--it only shows miles per hour translated into feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - I mean, does it show various miles per hour?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; it shows miles per hour in feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - Without going into detail at this time, may I have permission to introduce this table into evidence?

Mr. McCLOY - It may be admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG - This will be Commission Exhibit 560.

(The item identified as Commission Exhibit No. 560 was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Now, Mr. Frazier, in the construction of this table and also in your last tests for rapid fire for this rifle, you used a five-and-a-half second figure as a factor in your calculations, and in your attempt at rapid fire accuracy placements. Can you give us the source of that figure?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. You were the source of it, based on examination, as I understood it, of a movie taken at the scene, and measurements taken at the scene. However, I have no knowledge of the actual time.

Mr. EISENBERG - For the record, I just wanted to establish that this is a source that was supplied by the Commission and which is tentative, and it is not to imply any final conclusion on the part of the FBI; is that correct?

Mr. FRAZIER - I hope it is taken that way, because we don't know what the time actually was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me correct you if I may Mr. Eisenberg!

"that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and second shots was 5 1/2 seconds."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the "Eisenberg" info gives us several baselines from which to work, when one has all of the other pertinent information.

First off, lets take the "90" feet between shots.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. The time the speed of the moving object was calculated on the basis of an assumed 5.5-second interval for a distance of 90 feet, which figures out mathematically to be 11.3 miles per hour.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. FRAZIER - No--window sill--60-foot window sill height above the ground, with an assumed 2- foot height in addition to accommodate the height of the rifle above the possible. the possible height of the rifle above the window sill.

The horizontal line extends outward from the building to a small rectangular block, and then a sloping line illustrates a 5-foot slope from the 175-foot point to the 265-foot point.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

???????????????????--So! What Next?

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Simmons, were your marksmen instructed to aim at the three targets in consecutive order?

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think that perhaps Mr. Eisenberg can now get in the same boat with Shaneyfelt!

Personally, I would like for all of them to be in the same boat, when it SINKS!

As for me, I recall nothing in regards to Frazier having been given anything in regards to a "240" foot slope distance shot.

Either for his drawing and/or his time of flight computations.

It would appear that "300" feet has now decided to move back up Elm St. away from James Altgens position and locate itself some 20+ feet prior to the Z313 impact.

Which of course is also the location in which the WC also "moved" James Altgens to on their "paperwork location".

Mr. LIEBELER - Looking at Commission Exhibit No. 354, we have placed you at No. 3 on that picture.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK Shaneyfelt!

You and Eisenberg need to move over and make room for another one in the boat!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But then again, I would assume that not unlike some "golden parachute", you also have a relatively good life jacket as well!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

Before we move back to "math counts"!

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film----

Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's Comment: Anyone have any doubts as to exactly who is the Captain of this boat and exactly who is "steering" it on command?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334.

---------------------------------

REALLY!

Personally, I would have guessed that it was one of the last frames just prior to James Altgens coming into view.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Commission Exhibit No. 887 is a picture of me that was taken on May 24, 1964. My location was at the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository that we have designated as our control point. I have the rifle that is the assassination rifle mounted on a tripod, and on the rifle is mounted an Arriflex 16-mm. motion picture camera, that is alined to take photographs through the telescopic sight.

This Arriflex motion picture camera is commonly known as a reflex camera in that as you view through the viewfinder a prism allows you to view directly through the lens system as you are taking your photographs so that as I took the photographs looking into the viewfinder I was also looking through the scope and seeing the actual image that was being recorded on the film.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0050b.htm

*Provided again for that person who repeats what I say without verification as to exactly where I got that information.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. And how did you number the frames?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. I numbered the frames on the Zapruder film beginning with No. 1 at the assassination portion of his

##### Share on other sites

Cat#2

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Most should recall that Z313 was located at survey stationing 4+65.3, which was 465.3 feet from a control station established back up in the center of the Elm St./Houston St. intersection.

As well as the fact that Z313 was at street elevation 418.48.

Which merely serves to indicate that the 265' distance is as relates to Z313.

Now! If one will look closely at the Frazier drawing of that information provided to him by Melvin Eisenberg, they will find that Frazer wrote that the vehicle traversed 90 feet in 5.5 seconds, for a speed of 16.3 feet per second. (it actually comes to 16.363636 feet per second)

Which ultimately comes to 11.157 mph.

Mr. EISENBERG - And that table also shows leads at other car speeds?

Mr. FRAZIER - This table I could calculate them--it only shows miles per hour translated into feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - I mean, does it show various miles per hour?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; it shows miles per hour in feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - Without going into detail at this time, may I have permission to introduce this table into evidence?

Mr. McCLOY - It may be admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG - This will be Commission Exhibit 560.

(The item identified as Commission Exhibit No. 560 was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Now, Mr. Frazier, in the construction of this table and also in your last tests for rapid fire for this rifle, you used a five-and-a-half second figure as a factor in your calculations, and in your attempt at rapid fire accuracy placements. Can you give us the source of that figure?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. You were the source of it, based on examination, as I understood it, of a movie taken at the scene, and measurements taken at the scene. However, I have no knowledge of the actual time.

Mr. EISENBERG - For the record, I just wanted to establish that this is a source that was supplied by the Commission and which is tentative, and it is not to imply any final conclusion on the part of the FBI; is that correct?

Mr. FRAZIER - I hope it is taken that way, because we don't know what the time actually was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me correct you if I may Mr. Eisenberg!

"that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and second shots was 5 1/2 seconds."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the "Eisenberg" info gives us several baselines from which to work, when one has all of the other pertinent information.

First off, lets take the "90" feet between shots.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. The time the speed of the moving object was calculated on the basis of an assumed 5.5-second interval for a distance of 90 feet, which figures out mathematically to be 11.3 miles per hour.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. FRAZIER - No--window sill--60-foot window sill height above the ground, with an assumed 2- foot height in addition to accommodate the height of the rifle above the possible. the possible height of the rifle above the window sill.

The horizontal line extends outward from the building to a small rectangular block, and then a sloping line illustrates a 5-foot slope from the 175-foot point to the 265-foot point.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

???????????????????--So! What Next?

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Simmons, were your marksmen instructed to aim at the three targets in consecutive order?

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think that perhaps Mr. Eisenberg can now get in the same boat with Shaneyfelt!

Personally, I would like for all of them to be in the same boat, when it SINKS!

As for me, I recall nothing in regards to Frazier having been given anything in regards to a "240" foot slope distance shot.

Either for his drawing and/or his time of flight computations.

It would appear that "300" feet has now decided to move back up Elm St. away from James Altgens position and locate itself some 20+ feet prior to the Z313 impact.

Which of course is also the location in which the WC also "moved" James Altgens to on their "paperwork location".

Mr. LIEBELER - Looking at Commission Exhibit No. 354, we have placed you at No. 3 on that picture.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK Shaneyfelt!

You and Eisenberg need to move over and make room for another one in the boat!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But then again, I would assume that not unlike some "golden parachute", you also have a relatively good life jacket as well!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

Before we move back to "math counts"!

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film----

Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's Comment: Anyone have any doubts as to exactly who is the Captain of this boat and exactly who is "steering" it on command?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334.

---------------------------------

REALLY!

Personally, I would have guessed that it was one of the last frames just prior to James Altgens coming into view.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Commission Exhibit No. 887 is a picture of me that was taken on May 24, 1964. My location was at the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository that we have designated as our control point. I have the rifle that is the assassination rifle mounted on a tripod, and on the rifle is mounted an Arriflex 16-mm. motion picture camera, that is alined to take photographs through the telescopic sight.

This Arriflex motion picture camera is commonly known as a reflex camera in that as you view through the viewfinder a prism allows you to view directly through the lens system as you are taking your photographs so that as I took the photographs looking into the viewfinder I was also looking through the scope and seeing the actual image that was being recorded on the film.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0050b.htm

*Provided again for that person who repeats what I say without verification as to exactly where I got that information.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. And how did you number the frames?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. I numbered the frames on the Zapruder film beginning with No. 1 at the assassination portion of his

Somewhat "side-tracked" for a moment, but back on the rails!

5.5 seconds X 18.3 frames per second, = 100.65 elapsed frames.

Z312 (pre-impact) minus 101 frames (100.65 frames) = Z211

Z313 (impact) minus 101 frames = Z212

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z211.jpg

Anyone out there for more "coincidences"?

To include the WC acidentally forgetting to publish those frames of the film in this exact vicinity?

Edited by Thomas H. Purvis
##### Share on other sites

Anyone out there for more "coincidences"?

To include the WC acidentally forgetting to publish those frames of the film in this exact vicinity?

Working backwards like you are doing, the coincidence for damaging frames 208 - 211?

Probe, James DeEugenio

http://www.ctka.net/pr998-zfilm.html

Photographer Phil Willis had always claimed that he took a shot of Kennedy when he heard the first shot ring out. The problem for the Warren Commission was that he said he took this shot before Kennedy disappeared behind the Stemmons Freeway sign. As Wrone points out, with this new version of the film, you can actually pick out Willis and see him raise the camera to his eye. And the timing of that motion corresponds to Willis’ original story of taking the shot before frame 199, or before Kennedy disappears behind the sign. As Wrone states:

You see the photographer [Willis] in frame 183 and in 199 with his camera to his eye. At frame 204 he’s put down his camera and is moving out of the picture. This information has never been seen until now. (p. 25)

The Warren Commission held that Kennedy was hit while he was behind the sign, at around frame 210 or later. One reason they held to this was that Willis’ story would have been in conflict with the Commission admission that earlier, Oswald would have to have been firing through the branches of an oak tree. Therefore he could not have been the likely sniper on this earlier shot.

Another interesting aspect of the MPI version is that there are still frames missing from it. In one replay of the film there is a frame counter in the upper left corner. According to that counter, frames 208-211 are gone. These are the very last frames before Kennedy’s head disappears on a vertical axis behind the sign due to the slight incline of the road. In 1993, Groden showed a version of the film at Harvard which included those frames. As Josiah Thompson told the Board at the aforementioned hearing, some frames had been damaged at Time-Life. But because three other copies had been struck by Zapruder and the Secret Service in Dallas, it is possible to reconstruct that sequence from the other first day copies. Somehow, Groden did.

##### Share on other sites

Anyone out there for more "coincidences"?

To include the WC acidentally forgetting to publish those frames of the film in this exact vicinity?

Working backwards like you are doing, the coincidence for damaging frames 208 - 211?

Probe, James DeEugenio

http://www.ctka.net/pr998-zfilm.html

Photographer Phil Willis had always claimed that he took a shot of Kennedy when he heard the first shot ring out. The problem for the Warren Commission was that he said he took this shot before Kennedy disappeared behind the Stemmons Freeway sign. As Wrone points out, with this new version of the film, you can actually pick out Willis and see him raise the camera to his eye. And the timing of that motion corresponds to Willis’ original story of taking the shot before frame 199, or before Kennedy disappears behind the sign. As Wrone states:

You see the photographer [Willis] in frame 183 and in 199 with his camera to his eye. At frame 204 he’s put down his camera and is moving out of the picture. This information has never been seen until now. (p. 25)

The Warren Commission held that Kennedy was hit while he was behind the sign, at around frame 210 or later. One reason they held to this was that Willis’ story would have been in conflict with the Commission admission that earlier, Oswald would have to have been firing through the branches of an oak tree. Therefore he could not have been the likely sniper on this earlier shot.

Another interesting aspect of the MPI version is that there are still frames missing from it. In one replay of the film there is a frame counter in the upper left corner. According to that counter, frames 208-211 are gone. These are the very last frames before Kennedy’s head disappears on a vertical axis behind the sign due to the slight incline of the road. In 1993, Groden showed a version of the film at Harvard which included those frames. As Josiah Thompson told the Board at the aforementioned hearing, some frames had been damaged at Time-Life. But because three other copies had been struck by Zapruder and the Secret Service in Dallas, it is possible to reconstruct that sequence from the other first day copies. Somehow, Groden did.

The WC did not publish these "missing" frames of the film and it is reported that when this was later caught by researchers and brought out that the "official" answer was that their copy of the film received from Time/Life did not contain them and that is why it was an oversight.

However, if one checks their "composites" in which the altered survey data for Z208 was changed to Z210, they will find a composite for frame Z210 in which they demonstrate that they in fact had possession of at least this purportedly missing frame.

Tom

P.S. More "backwards" thinking to follow!

##### Share on other sites

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Well! Personally, that pretty well wraps in my mind exactly who Melvin Eisenberg served his apprenticeship under!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. EISENBERG - For the record, these figures are approximations of the figures believed to be involved in the assassination.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. FRAZIER - No--window sill--60-foot window sill height above the ground, with an assumed 2- foot height in addition to accommodate the height of the rifle above the possible. the possible height of the rifle above the window sill.

The horizontal line extends outward from the building to a small rectangular block, and then a sloping line illustrates a 5-foot slope from the 175-foot point to the 265-foot point.

Mr. EISENBERG - And you calculated the speed of the car by translating the figures on total time elapsed between first and third shots?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. The time the speed of the moving object was calculated on the basis of an assumed 5.5-second interval for a distance of 90 feet, which figures out mathematically to be 11.3 miles per hour.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(265 minus 175 = 90 feet)

Yep! Unfortunately, slope distance for the trajectory of a bullet fired at a distance of 175 feet and slope distance for the trajectory of a bullet fired at 265 feet, don't compute to 90 feet of horizontal distance on the ground.

And especially when the ground (Elm St). itself is also sloping downwards.

???????????????????????????????????certainly a quandary!

##### Share on other sites

The below attachment may serve some purpose here.

And, just so that history gets things correct:

http://www.jfk-online.com/westshaw.html

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:

Q: I notice in the center lane of that which you have depicted as Elm Street there are numerals close to small dots. Can you please tell the Gentlemen of the Jury what those numbers represent and what the dots represent?

A: The number represents the frame number of the Zapruder film. The dot represents the location of President Kennedy in the limousine when the particular frame was shot.

MR. DYMOND: We object to that unless this gentlemen can testify to that of his own knowledge, Your Honor. Unless he measured where the President was each time it would be based purely on hearsay.

MR. SCIAMBRA: I am asking the question.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:

Q: Why did you place the dot in the frame number in a particular location which is shown on this plat?

A: On the instructions of the FBI agent.

##### Share on other sites

Cat#2

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Most should recall that Z313 was located at survey stationing 4+65.3, which was 465.3 feet from a control station established back up in the center of the Elm St./Houston St. intersection.

As well as the fact that Z313 was at street elevation 418.48.

Which merely serves to indicate that the 265' distance is as relates to Z313.

Now! If one will look closely at the Frazier drawing of that information provided to him by Melvin Eisenberg, they will find that Frazer wrote that the vehicle traversed 90 feet in 5.5 seconds, for a speed of 16.3 feet per second. (it actually comes to 16.363636 feet per second)

Which ultimately comes to 11.157 mph.

Mr. EISENBERG - And that table also shows leads at other car speeds?

Mr. FRAZIER - This table I could calculate them--it only shows miles per hour translated into feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - I mean, does it show various miles per hour?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; it shows miles per hour in feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - Without going into detail at this time, may I have permission to introduce this table into evidence?

Mr. McCLOY - It may be admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG - This will be Commission Exhibit 560.

(The item identified as Commission Exhibit No. 560 was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Now, Mr. Frazier, in the construction of this table and also in your last tests for rapid fire for this rifle, you used a five-and-a-half second figure as a factor in your calculations, and in your attempt at rapid fire accuracy placements. Can you give us the source of that figure?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. You were the source of it, based on examination, as I understood it, of a movie taken at the scene, and measurements taken at the scene. However, I have no knowledge of the actual time.

Mr. EISENBERG - For the record, I just wanted to establish that this is a source that was supplied by the Commission and which is tentative, and it is not to imply any final conclusion on the part of the FBI; is that correct?

Mr. FRAZIER - I hope it is taken that way, because we don't know what the time actually was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me correct you if I may Mr. Eisenberg!

"that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and second shots was 5 1/2 seconds."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the "Eisenberg" info gives us several baselines from which to work, when one has all of the other pertinent information.

First off, lets take the "90" feet between shots.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. The time the speed of the moving object was calculated on the basis of an assumed 5.5-second interval for a distance of 90 feet, which figures out mathematically to be 11.3 miles per hour.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. FRAZIER - No--window sill--60-foot window sill height above the ground, with an assumed 2- foot height in addition to accommodate the height of the rifle above the possible. the possible height of the rifle above the window sill.

The horizontal line extends outward from the building to a small rectangular block, and then a sloping line illustrates a 5-foot slope from the 175-foot point to the 265-foot point.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

???????????????????--So! What Next?

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Simmons, were your marksmen instructed to aim at the three targets in consecutive order?

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think that perhaps Mr. Eisenberg can now get in the same boat with Shaneyfelt!

Personally, I would like for all of them to be in the same boat, when it SINKS!

As for me, I recall nothing in regards to Frazier having been given anything in regards to a "240" foot slope distance shot.

Either for his drawing and/or his time of flight computations.

It would appear that "300" feet has now decided to move back up Elm St. away from James Altgens position and locate itself some 20+ feet prior to the Z313 impact.

Which of course is also the location in which the WC also "moved" James Altgens to on their "paperwork location".

Mr. LIEBELER - Looking at Commission Exhibit No. 354, we have placed you at No. 3 on that picture.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK Shaneyfelt!

You and Eisenberg need to move over and make room for another one in the boat!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But then again, I would assume that not unlike some "golden parachute", you also have a relatively good life jacket as well!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

Before we move back to "math counts"!

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film----

Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's Comment: Anyone have any doubts as to exactly who is the Captain of this boat and exactly who is "steering" it on command?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334.

---------------------------------

REALLY!

Personally, I would have guessed that it was one of the last frames just prior to James Altgens coming into view.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Commission Exhibit No. 887 is a picture of me that was taken on May 24, 1964. My location was at the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository that we have designated as our control point. I have the rifle that is the assassination rifle mounted on a tripod, and on the rifle is mounted an Arriflex 16-mm. motion picture camera, that is alined to take photographs through the telescopic sight.

This Arriflex motion picture camera is commonly known as a reflex camera in that as you view through the viewfinder a prism allows you to view directly through the lens system as you are taking your photographs so that as I took the photographs looking into the viewfinder I was also looking through the scope and seeing the actual image that was being recorded on the film.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0050b.htm

*Provided again for that person who repeats what I say without verification as to exactly where I got that information.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. And how did you number the frames?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. I numbered the frames on the Zapruder film beginning with No. 1 at the assassination portion of his

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.jfk-online.com/shaneyfeltshaw.html

A: My name is Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, L-y-n-d-a-l, middle initial L, S-h-a-n-e-y-f-e-l-t.

Q: Where do you reside, Mr. Shaneyfelt?

A: I reside at 6125 Vernon Terrace, Alexandria, Virginia.

Q: By whom are you employed?

A: As a Special Agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In event that one wants good "public employees", they have to at least pay them a decent wage!

##### Share on other sites

Cat#2

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Most should recall that Z313 was located at survey stationing 4+65.3, which was 465.3 feet from a control station established back up in the center of the Elm St./Houston St. intersection.

As well as the fact that Z313 was at street elevation 418.48.

Which merely serves to indicate that the 265' distance is as relates to Z313.

Now! If one will look closely at the Frazier drawing of that information provided to him by Melvin Eisenberg, they will find that Frazer wrote that the vehicle traversed 90 feet in 5.5 seconds, for a speed of 16.3 feet per second. (it actually comes to 16.363636 feet per second)

Which ultimately comes to 11.157 mph.

Mr. EISENBERG - And that table also shows leads at other car speeds?

Mr. FRAZIER - This table I could calculate them--it only shows miles per hour translated into feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - I mean, does it show various miles per hour?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes; it shows miles per hour in feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG - Without going into detail at this time, may I have permission to introduce this table into evidence?

Mr. McCLOY - It may be admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG - This will be Commission Exhibit 560.

(The item identified as Commission Exhibit No. 560 was received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG - Now, Mr. Frazier, in the construction of this table and also in your last tests for rapid fire for this rifle, you used a five-and-a-half second figure as a factor in your calculations, and in your attempt at rapid fire accuracy placements. Can you give us the source of that figure?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. You were the source of it, based on examination, as I understood it, of a movie taken at the scene, and measurements taken at the scene. However, I have no knowledge of the actual time.

Mr. EISENBERG - For the record, I just wanted to establish that this is a source that was supplied by the Commission and which is tentative, and it is not to imply any final conclusion on the part of the FBI; is that correct?

Mr. FRAZIER - I hope it is taken that way, because we don't know what the time actually was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me correct you if I may Mr. Eisenberg!

"that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and second shots was 5 1/2 seconds."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the "Eisenberg" info gives us several baselines from which to work, when one has all of the other pertinent information.

First off, lets take the "90" feet between shots.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. The time the speed of the moving object was calculated on the basis of an assumed 5.5-second interval for a distance of 90 feet, which figures out mathematically to be 11.3 miles per hour.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. FRAZIER - No--window sill--60-foot window sill height above the ground, with an assumed 2- foot height in addition to accommodate the height of the rifle above the possible. the possible height of the rifle above the window sill.

The horizontal line extends outward from the building to a small rectangular block, and then a sloping line illustrates a 5-foot slope from the 175-foot point to the 265-foot point.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

???????????????????--So! What Next?

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Simmons, were your marksmen instructed to aim at the three targets in consecutive order?

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think that perhaps Mr. Eisenberg can now get in the same boat with Shaneyfelt!

Personally, I would like for all of them to be in the same boat, when it SINKS!

As for me, I recall nothing in regards to Frazier having been given anything in regards to a "240" foot slope distance shot.

Either for his drawing and/or his time of flight computations.

It would appear that "300" feet has now decided to move back up Elm St. away from James Altgens position and locate itself some 20+ feet prior to the Z313 impact.

Which of course is also the location in which the WC also "moved" James Altgens to on their "paperwork location".

Mr. LIEBELER - Looking at Commission Exhibit No. 354, we have placed you at No. 3 on that picture.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK Shaneyfelt!

You and Eisenberg need to move over and make room for another one in the boat!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But then again, I would assume that not unlike some "golden parachute", you also have a relatively good life jacket as well!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And all along I was under the impression that FBI Agents were underpaid!

Before we move back to "math counts"!

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film----

Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's Comment: Anyone have any doubts as to exactly who is the Captain of this boat and exactly who is "steering" it on command?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334.

---------------------------------

REALLY!

Personally, I would have guessed that it was one of the last frames just prior to James Altgens coming into view.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Commission Exhibit No. 887 is a picture of me that was taken on May 24, 1964. My location was at the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository that we have designated as our control point. I have the rifle that is the assassination rifle mounted on a tripod, and on the rifle is mounted an Arriflex 16-mm. motion picture camera, that is alined to take photographs through the telescopic sight.

This Arriflex motion picture camera is commonly known as a reflex camera in that as you view through the viewfinder a prism allows you to view directly through the lens system as you are taking your photographs so that as I took the photographs looking into the viewfinder I was also looking through the scope and seeing the actual image that was being recorded on the film.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0050b.htm

*Provided again for that person who repeats what I say without verification as to exactly where I got that information.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER. And how did you number the frames?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. I numbered the frames on the Zapruder film beginning with No. 1 at the assassination portion of his

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, \$1.4 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.jfk-online.com/shaneyfeltshaw.html

A: My name is Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, L-y-n-d-a-l, middle initial L, S-h-a-n-e-y-f-e-l-t.

Q: Where do you reside, Mr. Shaneyfelt?

A: I reside at 6125 Vernon Terrace, Alexandria, Virginia.

Q: By whom are you employed?

A: As a Special Agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In event that one wants good "public employees", they have to at least pay them a decent wage!

Mr. SHANEYFELT. At the very beginning, at 6 a.m., Mr. Rankin and Mr. Specter were in the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository Building, which is the southeast corner of the building, sixth floor window, which was referred to as our control point, and where we had the master radio control for the other units.

Mr. Redlich was on the street with the car. At the car on the street were the occupants of the car, the Secret Service driver, Mr. Hickey, an agent from the FBI, who handled radio contact with control, Agents Anderton and Williams in the President's and Connally's seats, Mr. Gauthier and his aids, a surveyor, and I, were all on the ground in the vicinity of the car.

Mr. SHANEYFELT. For the first portion of them, I was at the car in the street, and at the position of Mr. Zapruder, the position from which he took his pictures.

Mr. SPECTER - What was your position during most of the time of those onsite tests?

Mr. FRAZIER - I was stationed at the window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building at the southeast corner of the building.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well! You should have taken up Zapruder's position. It apparently paid better!

##### Share on other sites

Tom,

Remember the Drommer revision you warned me about, take a look at the red arrows which point to the non-matching curbline between Myer's work and the Drommer plat. The Houston St. curblines seem to match up fine, along with the wall, etc, etc.

In regards to the mis-matched curbline span:

Myer's has the limo in Towner traveling a distance of (yellow type) 40 ft.

I believe it is actually closer to(my RED LINES) 70 FT.

Part of the Revision??

thanks

chris

Edited by Chris Davidson
##### Share on other sites

Chris;

Will get back to you on that!

Onward!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. EISENBERG - I am now going to ask you several hypothetical questions concerning the factors which might have affected the aim of the assassin on November 22d, and I would like you to make the following assumptions in answering these questions: First, that the assassin fired his shots from the window near which the cartridges were found--that is, the easternmost window on the south face of the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, which is 60 feet above the ground, and several more feet above the position at which the car was apparently located when the shots were fired.

Second, that the length of the trajectory of the first shot was 175 feet, and that the length of the trajectory of the third shot was 265 feet.

And third, that the elapsed time between the firing of the first and third shots was 5 1/2 seconds.

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges from the window ledge of a tower which is about 30 feet high.

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In event no one has yet to catch on, the date of the above questioning of Frazier & Simmons, occured on March 31, 1964.

The date of the WC re-enactment was not until May 24, 1964.

The figures which Eisenberg gave to Frazier as well as to Simmons:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0139a.htm

Are "slope/gun to target" distances, not horizontal distances as Frazier (or someone) has on the drawing.

As well as the fact that they differ from those distances as determined by the SS & FBI, who did not take into consideration the actual height of the target above the pavement in computation of exact distances and angles.

Nevertheless, one may want to again look at the "Best Evidence" for the Z313 impact, which is in fact relatively accurate.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

"Line of Sight Dist. K-R" (Kennedy to Rifle): Z313----------265.3 feet.

(guess what?)

Not only that, but CE884 & Mr. West's relatively accurate work for the WC, will also give us additional information if one looks closely.

Z207 "Line of Sight Dist. K-R"-----------174.9 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A quick refresher:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...7475entry137475

Additionally, the Eisenberg drawing information as provided to FBI Agent Frazier on 3/27/64 clearly demonstrates that the height difference of JFK's head above Elm St. as well as the rifle height in the window were items which had to be considered.

So, either Eisenberg was also a math major, or else someone who recognized that the SS & FBI surveys were lacking in this detail, was coaching him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...t=0&start=0

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

Subject: Conference of April 14, 1964, to determine which

frames in the Zapruder movies show the impact of

the first and second bullets

---------------------------------------------------------

A screening was held of the Zapruder film and of slides

prepared by LIFE from the film. Each slide corresponded with a

separate frame of film, beginning with frame 171. The consensus of

the meeting was as follows:

(a) The President had been definitely hit by frames 224-225,

when he emerges from behind a sign with his hands clutching his

throat.

( The reaction shown in frames 224-225 may have started at

an earlier point - possibly as early as frame 199 (when there appears

to be some jerkiness in his movement) or, with a higher degree of

possibility, at frames 204-206 (where his right elbow appears to be

raised to an artificially high position).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(to be continued)

### Announcements

×

• #### Store

×
• Create New...