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The Jumping Couple React to something In Nix


Guest Duncan MacRae
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Guest Duncan MacRae

This is a brilliant Chris Davidson observation, and I think that it merits it's own thread.

The couple in the gifs below are reacting to something, possibly another shot? approximately 2 to 3 seconds after Z313 :)

If anyone has any other ideas, feel free to contribute.

reaction2.gif

reaction.gif

Duncan MacRae

Edited by Duncan MacRae
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This is a brilliant Chris Davidson observation, and I think that it merits it's own thread.

The couple in the gifs below are reacting to something, possibly another shot? approximately 2 to 3 seconds after Z313 :)

If anyone has any other ideas, feel free to contribute.

reaction.gif

Duncan MacRae

Yes, simply brilliant. (sigh~)

Let us at least appear to give more than 2 to 3 seconds of thought to this observation. JFK's head was blown apart 3 seconds earlier, so why would anyone wish to shoot again once their goal had been accomplished ... I can think of several reasons, but none that would be sensible enough to consider as reasonable.

However, one might consider that because Mrs. Franzen steps back suddenly when she saw the damage done to the President ... that the second lady realized something horrible has happened ... might even know for the first time what has taken place. So if Mrs. Fransen is suddenly moving back from the street, then maybe the second lady was reacting to Franzen's movement.

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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Good Day.... Lest any individual researcher forget, there were (and still are alive) several close DP witnesses, a total of 11 or more IIRC without looking in my detailed list, whose collective timestamped statements strongly support hearing a distinctly seperate audible muzzle blast or mechanically suppress fired bullet bow shockwave that was fired distinctly timestamped after Z-313.... after President KENNEDY's head exploded.

Of the 41 DP witnesses I have personally contacted (not all of them could see the limo and/or JFK circa 313, but all of them did hear shots/shockwaves), 7 of them, who were all very close to the 313 explosion, detail and support a shot/shockwave timestamped after 313.

Best Regards in Research,

Don

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise

locations, Witnesses, Photographers, Evidence, Suspected bullet trajectories,

Important information & Considerations....

http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq248/D...yGIF_110508.gif

(AOL has stopped their website service. Many of the smaller-bytes JFK

information, reports, studies, articles, maps, etc have been uploaded

temporarily to http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq248/DRoberdeau/

My homepage and research files will be returning soon in a permanent

home.... If you need some information, report, study, article, map,

etc before then, please feel free to contact me privately)

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

TEAMWORK.gif

National Terror Alert for the United States:

advisory7regional.gif

"Drehm seemed to think the shots came from in FRONT OF or BESIDE

the president." (my EMPHASIS)

CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States

Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza

attack witness, quoted only minutes after the attack, and while he

was still standing within Dealey Plaza (11-22-63 "Dallas Times

Herald," appeared only in the fifth & final daily edition, which

mis-spelled his name)

"I happened to be about fifteen feet away from the president when

the FIRST SHOT HIT HIM. There is some discussion now as to whether there

was one or two shots that hit him, but the first shot rang out, and, I was

positive when I saw the look on his face, and saw him grab his chest,

and saw the reaction of his wife that he had been shot, and at that time,

which was probably a few seconds later --- the second shot rang out ---

and he just, absolutely, went down into the seat of the car. There was a

third shot that 'went,' and by that time i had grabbed my little five-year-old

boy who was with me and ran away from scene of the thing, but, the only

thing that I did witness --- and something I'm sorry I did witness,

very honestly --- was that, the look on his face when that shot hit, and

the look again on him and his wife's face when the shots started to ring out

and it was, very obviously, that he was hit. The first two shots that were

heard, and ---- the FIRST ONE HIT the president --- there was no doubt, whatsoever,

because his face winced, and he grabbed at himself, and he slumped down.

I do believe, without any doubt, that the second one hit him because he

had an immediate reaction with that second shot. I do know there was a

third shot but as I said by that time I had grabbed my boy and started to go."

(my EMPHASIS)

CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States

Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza

attack witness, quoted only minutes after the attack in a report he gave

over the radio, 11-22-63)

"Another eyewitness, Charles Brehm, said he was 15 feet away from the

President when he was shot.

'He was waving, then the FIRST shot hit him and that awful

look crossed his face.' " (my EMPHASIS)

CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States

Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza

attack witness (quoted to the "Associated Press," 11-22-63)

Edited by Don Roberdeau
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Unless I'm mistaken, Brehm and his little boy are standing in front of the jumping couple. It seems logical that the couple is reacting to the same shot that Brehm reacted to, after JFK had already been fatally shot. The couple jumps and Brehm, as he stated, got out of there with the little boy.

Who is the person sitting down on the curb at the beginning of the clip? I don't recall seeing that person before.

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Jean Hill stated, "....and then there were three or four more shots "

http://pages.prodigy.net/whiskey99/hearnoevil.htm

The above webpage informs the reader that the Wiegman film is 27.3 sec long and that the frames showing the limousine approaching the underpass appear 11 sec into the film. The conclusions are that the Wiegman film begins no later than about 3 sec before the head shot, and since towards the end of the film, at sec 26 when Hester is seen rising from the ground, and because the frame in the Wiegmann film showing the limousine can occur no later than 8 sec after the head shot, Hester must have stood up no later than 23 sec after the President was shot in the head.

Hester appears in the Wiegman footage to be in great haste as he seeks the protection of the pergola; in fact so much so, that he leaves his wife lying on the grass to shift for herself. The question that come to mind are... Why did he act that way approximately 23 seconds after the head shot? That's the first question.

The second question relates to Weigman filming as he was running. Quite obviously he was doing the best he could to keep his camera steady as he attempted to keep it pointing towards the then departing presidential limousine. Then abruptly for a number of frames Weigman seems to have lost control of where the camera was being aimed, and what we see are a blurred series of pictures of the fenceline area. Next what we see is apparently camera control being immediately regained by Wiegman, and he pans quickly around the GK area as if searching for something to record. The question is, what happened to result in Wiegman apparently swinging his camera so abruptly, and apparently from what we can see, so wildly in the direction of the fenceline ?.

The third question: Chris Davidson wrote:

Notice Wiegman's movement in the Bell movie, in the span of those 8 frames, as he films the Hester's, and the quality of the clip that's produced.

The Bell footage which Chris posted appears to depict Wiegman as he is getting to his feet from a semi-crouched postion. The question is, why was Wiegman crouching ?

I submit that all three of the questions have but one and the same answer, and that the attached frame from Wiegman's footage offers the explanation.It was sent to me a few years ago from N.Ireland by my brother,James, who requested that I forward it to Robert Groden. Groden searched his copy of the Weigman footage, and since he could not find the frame, concluded that the tiny circular white spot (which appears on the attached picture) was a defect in the printing process.

The frame actually was collected by my brother from a copy of the Wiegman footage which had been sent by air from NBC to the UK very shortly after the assassination on 22/11/63. I understand that the same copy was also used in the production of the UK video 'The Day the Dream Died' . None of the N. American copies of the Wiegman footage appear to depict the circular white spot.

Somewhere I recall having read that the Wiegman footage had a few frames missing. Might this not be one of them? I have posted the frame both as I received it, and also in a zoomed-in rendition of the circular white spot and surrounding area.

Further, there is a 3 seconds overlap between the Couch and Weigman footages, and my brother has shown that during those 3 seconds when both cameramen were filming, Couch captured the same circular white spot (gunflash?) in exactly the same location along the fenceline. It was most certainly not a defect in the printing of the Wiegman film.

Anyway, here's the circular white 'flash' from the Wiegman frame, and also the coloured enlargement of that specific area:

post-684-1226456006_thumb.jpg

post-684-1226456452_thumb.jpg

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Unless I'm mistaken, Brehm and his little boy are standing in front of the jumping couple. It seems logical that the couple is reacting to the same shot that Brehm reacted to, after JFK had already been fatally shot. The couple jumps and Brehm, as he stated, got out of there with the little boy.

Who is the person sitting down on the curb at the beginning of the clip? I don't recall seeing that person before.

You are mistaken. That is Franzen and son.

Jack

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Jean Hill stated, "....and then there were three or four more shots "

http://pages.prodigy.net/whiskey99/hearnoevil.htm

The above webpage informs the reader that the Wiegman film is 27.3 sec long and that the frames showing the limousine approaching the underpass appear 11 sec into the film. The conclusions are that the Wiegman film begins no later than about 3 sec before the head shot, and since towards the end of the film, at sec 26 when Hester is seen rising from the ground, and because the frame in the Wiegmann film showing the limousine can occur no later than 8 sec after the head shot, Hester must have stood up no later than 23 sec after the President was shot in the head.

Hester appears in the Wiegman footage to be in great haste as he seeks the protection of the pergola; in fact so much so, that he leaves his wife lying on the grass to shift for herself. The question that come to mind are... Why did he act that way approximately 23 seconds after the head shot? That's the first question.

The second question relates to Weigman filming as he was running. Quite obviously he was doing the best he could to keep his camera steady as he attempted to keep it pointing towards the then departing presidential limousine. Then abruptly for a number of frames Weigman seems to have lost control of where the camera was being aimed, and what we see are a blurred series of pictures of the fenceline area. Next what we see is apparently camera control being immediately regained by Wiegman, and he pans quickly around the GK area as if searching for something to record. The question is, what happened to result in Wiegman apparently swinging his camera so abruptly, and apparently from what we can see, so wildly in the direction of the fenceline ?.

The third question: Chris Davidson wrote:

Notice Wiegman's movement in the Bell movie, in the span of those 8 frames, as he films the Hester's, and the quality of the clip that's produced.

The Bell footage which Chris posted appears to depict Wiegman as he is getting to his feet from a semi-crouched postion. The question is, why was Wiegman crouching ?

I submit that all three of the questions have but one and the same answer, and that the attached frame from Wiegman's footage offers the explanation.It was sent to me a few years ago from N.Ireland by my brother,James, who requested that I forward it to Robert Groden. Groden searched his copy of the Weigman footage, and since he could not find the frame, concluded that the tiny circular white spot (which appears on the attached picture) was a defect in the printing process.

The frame actually was collected by my brother from a copy of the Wiegman footage which had been sent by air from NBC to the UK very shortly after the assassination on 22/11/63. I understand that the same copy was also used in the production of the UK video 'The Day the Dream Died' . None of the N. American copies of the Wiegman footage appear to depict the circular white spot.

Somewhere I recall having read that the Wiegman footage had a few frames missing. Might this not be one of them? I have posted the frame both as I received it, and also in a zoomed-in rendition of the circular white spot and surrounding area.

Further, there is a 3 seconds overlap between the Couch and Weigman footages, and my brother has shown that during those 3 seconds when both cameramen were filming, Couch captured the same circular white spot (gunflash?) in exactly the same location along the fenceline. It was most certainly not a defect in the printing of the Wiegman film.

Anyway, here's the circular white 'flash' from the Wiegman frame, and also the coloured enlargement of that specific area:

post-684-1226456006_thumb.jpg

post-684-1226456452_thumb.jpg

Thanks, Ed. The white circle cannot be an in-camera exposure of any sort, because the frame is

very blurry but the circle is very sharp. I suggest that it is some sort of post-production artifact.

Jack

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This is a brilliant Chris Davidson observation, and I think that it merits it's own thread.

The couple in the gifs below are reacting to something, possibly another shot? approximately 2 to 3 seconds after Z313 :blink:

If anyone has any other ideas, feel free to contribute.

reaction2.gif

reaction.gif

Duncan MacRae

Remember,

Tom Purvis has pointed this out to us many times before:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm

Which is 31 feet farther down Elm than the 313 head shot.

Perhaps the couple is reacting to this shot along with Mrs. Franzen.

Would appear to coincide with the documentation.

chris

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Likewise the large white patch directly above the circle ?

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Yes, simply brilliant. (sigh~)

Bill Miller

Do I sense yet again, an air of self proclaimed superiority from the man who gave us the Flying Greystoke assassin in the trees? :blink:

Duncan MacRae

I see that your hell-bent on misstating the facts even when its over the stupid stuff. I have responded to this idiocy many times now and not once have you ever produced a single reference to a fact that would show that what you say is true.

I am not a believe or supporter in the 'other film' nonsense and I did make a reference once to a cluster of leaves that with a little imagination someone could claim them to be the person responsible for this so-called other-film. My mentioning such a thing was an expression of sarcasm to yet another nutty claim based on rumor and hearsay. From that you have managed to change it to an assassin that I've allegedly claimed to be sitting on a tree branch that we both know would be too small to hold the weight of a hefty squirrel. I realize that there are some people who think that if they somehow misstate or fabricate something long enough that somehow it will become the truth, but I didn't know that you were necessarily one of them.

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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This is a brilliant Chris Davidson observation, and I think that it merits it's own thread.

The couple in the gifs below are reacting to something, possibly another shot? approximately 2 to 3 seconds after Z313 :blink:

If anyone has any other ideas, feel free to contribute.

reaction2.gif

reaction.gif

Duncan MacRae

Remember,

Tom Purvis has pointed this out to us many times before:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm

Which is 31 feet farther down Elm than the 313 head shot.

Perhaps the couple is reacting to this shot along with Mrs. Franzen.

Would appear to coincide with the documentation.

chris

It does appear to give Purvis' interpretation of events a bit of circumstantial verification. Unless you're absolutely certain about all the shots and when they occurred, maybe it's time to consider that a third shot did occur closer to the Altgens position than Z-313...after all, the FBI and the Secret Service did manage to have it included in their survey work in DP.

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another possibility to explore: could this be the moment that the ss man looses his footing and has regained it by the time the limo has passed. ie could they react 'secondarily'? (pardon me french)

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Unless I'm mistaken, Brehm and his little boy are standing in front of the jumping couple. It seems logical that the couple is reacting to the same shot that Brehm reacted to, after JFK had already been fatally shot. The couple jumps and Brehm, as he stated, got out of there with the little boy.

Who is the person sitting down on the curb at the beginning of the clip? I don't recall seeing that person before.

....Good Day Ron.... That man was Mr. MALCOLM SUMMERS.

At about Z-349 he is seen to have been aligned with President KENNEDY and ZAPRUDER.

He dove sideways and somewhat backwards, away from the street/GK, and landed on his rear side.

SUMMERS was known to investigators right after the assassination, and, was referenced for readers of the warrenatti canard.

+ born 7-28-24, passed on 10-8-2004 (heart ailment; brief illness)

+ before= Served as a Sergeant in the United states Air Force in WWII & Korean War

+ before= "Summers Mailing Services" founder & owner

+ before= He had gone to downtown Dallas to drop off some mail at the old Postal Annex within DP

+ during= @ 12:30 saw JFK slump after the 1st shot that SUMMERS remembered hearing (which he likened to a firecracker) , then he heard JACKIE yell "Oh God, no," then SUMMERS heard another shot.

+ during= @ 12:30 said 1st shot was louder than the next shot, and the 1st sounded like a firecracker, then he recognized the next shot as a rifle shot (in 2002 SFM interview & a 2003 WBAP radio interview SUMMERS said he heard 3 total shots with the 2002 scenario having the 2nd and 3rd shots bunched distinctly closer together in time than 1st and 2nd shots, with about one or two seconds between 2nd and 3rd audible muzzle blasts and/or mechanically suppress fired bullet bow shockwaves)

+ during= @ 12:30 shots and/or shockwaves source(s): 1st from TSBD intersection, then unsure on balance of shots; possibly from GK

+ during= @ 12:30 said he also heard CONNALLY yelling "They're going to kill us all" or "They're going to shoot us all"

+ Interestingly, the exact location that EDNA HARTMAN points to in her video interview with researcher MARK OAKES in which she details that her and her husband explored a bullet-created furrow in the grass is calculatable to a location within 10' of where we see SUMMERS diving away from the HARTMAN's bullet furrow.

+ after= @ 12:30 seen in Z-film diving sideways and falling down/rolling over backwards landing on his rear after 313; aligned with ZAPRUDER and JFK circa Z-349

+ after= 12:32 to 12:33 (per SUMMERS in 1988's documentary "Who Murdered JFK?") SUMMERS demonstrated his trot northward shortly after the attack from his Elm south side location, across Elm, to a location just south of the "Bryan's pergola" and then "WE were stopped on the knoll" about 2-3 minutes after shots by a 5'10" to 6' tall coated/armed man on the south side of north pergola (an estimated 50' northeast of "ZAPRUDER's pedestal") by a man wearing a suit, hat and a tie, and concealing a small "machine gun" "over his raincoat" (did SUMMERS really mean to say "under his raincoat"?) of which SUMMERS could see only the muzzle barrel end.

+ after= When this armed man stopped SUMMERS and others he told them all that they could not come up there--they might get shot or killed.

+ after= SUMMERS said there were other people near him who this armed man was also warning they might get shot (his post-attack trotting path and encounter location are detailed on my DP map in turquoise)

+ after= @ 12:50 when SUMMERS was leaving DP in his truck, 3 Spanish men in a 1961 or 62 maroon Chevy sedan pulled quickly out in front of him, cclosely cutting him off, near the Postal Annex where SUMMERS had parked, so SUMMERS followed them as they were quite animated. The men drove towards Oak Cliff.

+ after= SUMMERS became the target of telephone threats just weeks after assassination

+ after= He came to know AL MADDOX

+ after= In 1992-93 he met with a woman who worked for the Houston police dept as a professional sketch artist. They worked together and completed a sketch that according to SUMMERS looked very similar to the suited man SUMMERS and others encountered on the south side of the GK who was armed with the mostly hidden weapon. Supposedly this sketch of the man who stopped SUMMERS and others is in a book. I do not recall viewing it in the 400+ published references that I own....Does anyone have this sketch available for posting, or, know which book we can view this sketch is in?

Some References:

"Who Murdered JFK?" documentary (1988)

http://rope.wbap.com/forty/forty-01.wma

Decker exhibit 5323

19H500

http://www.legacy.com/CommonCobrand/PrintN...ersonID=2693385

http://slick.org/deathwatch/mailarchive/msg01513.html

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?d...34009&hl=en

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/oral-his...y-name?letter=S

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/summers.htm

Best Regards in Research,

Don

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

Discovery: ROSEMARY WILLIS's Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Headsnap:

West, Ultrafast, & Directly Towards the "Grassy Knoll"

http://ftp.hometown.aol.com/droberdeau/JFK...NOUNCEMENT.html

Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise

locations, Witnesses, Photographers, Evidence, Suspected bullet trajectories, Important

information & Considerations

http://ftp.hometown.aol.com/droberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg

President Kennedy "Men of Courage" Speech, & JFK Assassination

Research & Discoveries, Don Roberdeau, 1975 to Present

http://ftp.hometown.aol.com/droberdeau/

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

TEAMWORK.gif

National Terror Alert for the United States:

advisory7regional.gif

"Drehm seemed to think the shots came from in FRONT OF or BESIDE

the president." (my EMPHASIS)

CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States

Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza

attack witness, quoted only minutes after the attack, and while he

was still standing within Dealey Plaza (11-22-63 "Dallas Times

Herald," appeared only in the fifth & final daily edition, which

mis-spelled his name)

"I happened to be about fifteen feet away from the president when

the FIRST SHOT HIT HIM. There is some discussion now as to whether there

was one or two shots that hit him, but the first shot rang out, and, I was

positive when I saw the look on his face, and saw him grab his chest,

and saw the reaction of his wife that he had been shot, and at that time,

which was probably a few seconds later --- the second shot rang out ---

and he just, absolutely, went down into the seat of the car. There was a

third shot that 'went,' and by that time i had grabbed my little five-year-old

boy who was with me and ran away from scene of the thing, but, the only

thing that I did witness --- and something I'm sorry I did witness,

very honestly --- was that, the look on his face when that shot hit, and

the look again on him and his wife's face when the shots started to ring out

and it was, very obviously, that he was hit. The first two shots that were

heard, and ---- the FIRST ONE HIT the president --- there was no doubt, whatsoever,

because his face winced, and he grabbed at himself, and he slumped down.

I do believe, without any doubt, that the second one hit him because he

had an immediate reaction with that second shot. I do know there was a

third shot but as I said by that time I had grabbed my boy and started to go."

(my EMPHASIS)

CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States

Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza

attack witness, quoted only minutes after the attack in a report he gave

over the radio, 11-22-63)

"Another eyewitness, Charles Brehm, said he was 15 feet away from the

President when he was shot.

'He was waving, then the FIRST shot hit him and that awful

look crossed his face.' " (my EMPHASIS)

CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States

Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza

attack witness (quoted to the "Associated Press," 11-22-63)

Edited by Don Roberdeau
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