Guest Stephen Turner Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'd like to see the US cut off all aid to Israel, but it's very unlikely considering Congress is under the control of the Israel lobby. It's not just the Israel lobby. The U.S. sees Israel as an important ally. I don't know why it's seen as an important ally, it just is. Maybe DWD can tell us before his account runs out. They're America's proxy in the Middle East. also, some far right religious nuts believe that "The final battle" will happen in Israel, at Megiddo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Surely the unadulterated, peace loving, Proconsul for the region will speak shortly...or maybe he has!!I can't hear you Mr Blair. Tony Blair has been on holiday and has been unable to carry out his peace-keeping role in the Middle-East. However, he is now back-in his office. This takes the form of the entire floor of the American Colony Hotel in Jerusalem (this costs £700,000 a year). Blair will not travel to Arab countries because he fears for his safety and therefore they have to be willing to travelling to Jerusalem in order to put their case. Blair has been constantly questioned about his commitment to his post as Middle East peace envoy for UN, USA, Europe and Russia. He has still not called for a ceasefire and his past record shows it is impossible for him to be a peace negotiator in the region. Many people in the Arab world see him as a war criminal because of the role he played in the Iraq War. Blair is also not willing to spend time on peace-talks because his speaking tours keep him very busy (it is believed they will earn him £15m by July 2009). Blair has been an important supporter of Israel for nearly 15 years. In March, 1994, Blair was introduced to Michael Levy at a dinner party at the Israeli embassy in London. Levy was a retired businessman who now spent his time raising money for Jewish pressure-groups. After this meeting, Levy acquired a new job, raising money for Tony Blair. According to Robin Ramsay (The Rise of New Labour, page 64), Levy raised over £7 million for Blair. This was used to promote him as future leader of the Labour Party. Levy ran the Labour Leader's Office Fund to finance Blair's campaign before the 1997 General Election and received substantial contributions from Zionists such figures as Alex Bernstein and Robert Gavron, both of whom were ennobled by Blair after he came to power. Levy was created a life peer by Blair in 1997, and in 2002, just prior to the Iraq War, Blair appointed Levy as his personal envoy to the Middle East. Levy has praised Blair for his "solid and committed support of the State of Israel" and has been described himself as "a leading international Zionist". As a result of obtaining this money Blair joined the pressure group, Labour Friends of Israel. It is one of the most fanatical Zionists groups in the UK. Gordon Brown also joined this group before he became prime minister. The group is led by Louise Ellman, who organized the defence of Israel's actions in Gaza in the media. In 2006, Blair was heavily criticised for his failure to call for a ceasefire in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, with members of his cabinet openly criticising Israel. Jack Straw, the Leader of the House of Commons and former Foreign Secretary stated that Israel's actions risked destabilising all of Lebanon. The Observer newspaper claimed that at a cabinet meeting before Blair left for a summit with President George Bush on 28 July 2006, a significant number of ministers pressured Blair to publicly criticise Israel over the scale of deaths and destruction in Lebanon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) "Israel, in their present form, have forfeited their right to exist, imo."--Mark Stapelton and you're suggesting WHAT, praytell? I dunno. Boycotts, isolation, some form of global collective action. I kinda thought Obama might have something to say. Of course, he's tied by Congress and Congress is tied up by the Israel Lobby. Or maybe I'm just spreading false rumors, David. Certainly peaceful. You don't always need to use force to be forceful. What do you suggest? Business as usual? Obama is not tied by Congress, Mark. Of course he'll listen to Congress (and take counsel), the Democrat party in particular. However, his feet aren't tied to the party... and there's 3 branches of Government in this country: The Legislative, Judicial, and the Executive Branch. Obama and his administration is, for all intents of purpose, the EXECUTIVE branch. As recently as this past week, Obama has stated there can not be 2 US Presidential voices dictating or putting forth foreign policy, PERIOD. He's also made clear, the day after assuming office, mid-east policy and the current situation will be addressed by his administration (I suspect those wheels are turning now). I wouldn't look for any massive changes in US policy concerning the region, no. Lest anyone forget the USA is involved in two wars... Obama certainly wasn't elected to office for the purpose of cleaning up a 3000 year biblical pissing match. We can't get the current fiscal situation under control (which Obama WAS elected to fix), there'll be more than a few Gaza types scenarios in the offing... I doubt you're spreading false rumors, Mark. Simply don't equate current, perceived USA in-action with malfeasance. Ya want to make that charge, give the guy at least a few day's in office... hell, maybe he DOES have a plan. But he's no CHRIST, Mark! aside: anyone notice Putin turned the gas back on in the Ukraine, guess its bad PR for one country to freeze another countries citizens to death during the height of winter? Couldn't find a damn protest anywhere, even the IRC (International Red Cross was mum -- the wuzzes) Where's the disgust? Millions of millions of people effected, where's the handwringing... How many froze to death? Edited January 12, 2009 by David G. Healy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Blair has been constantly questioned about his commitment to his post as Middle East peace envoy for UN, USA, Europe and Russia. He has still not called for a ceasefire and his past record shows it is impossible for him to be a peace negotiator in the region. Maybe Blair is waiting until Israel "has achieved all it's military goals". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Kathy Kelly, a co-coordinator of Voices for Creative Nonviolence, is writing from Arish, a town near the Rafah border between Egypt and Gaza. Bill Quigley, a human rights lawyer and law professor at Loyola New Orleans and Audrey Stewart are also in Egypt and contributed to this article. Kathy Kelly's email is kathy@vcnv.org ---------- Tunnel Vision By Kathy Kelly January 10, 2009 Arish, Egypt--As I write, we can hear the dull thud of explosions in the distance. Israeli airstrikes continue to blast targets in southern Gaza. Merciless bombing of the small Gaza Strip continues into a third week. I heard some people here in Egypt wonder if the Israeli Air Force must be running out of places and people to target. But perhaps the surveillance drones we heard and saw flying over the Rafah border crossing today hunted down more spots on which bombers could fix their cross-hairs. Perhaps they spotted underground tunnels. The Israeli government has, reportedly, already destroyed 80% of the tunnels that connect Gaza with the outside world. It's common knowledge that a vast network of tunnels, some say as many as 1700, were constructed, many from outside Gaza's territorial borders, leading into the Territory. Israel claims the tunnels are legitimate targets because the Hamas government can use them to import weapons. But the buildup of the tunnel industry was fueled by desperation for needed goods, within Gaza, a desperation caused by Israel's decision, over the past 16 months, to tighten the thumbscrews of its blockade on Gaza. If the blockade continues, and if the tunnels are completely destroyed, besieged Gazans will be cut off from secure supplies of food, medicine and fuel, yet another terrifying prospect for people who are desperate to protect their children from any greater harm. Supposedly concerned for Israeli security, the United States supports the Israeli government's objective of eliminating Hamas's capacity to fire primitive rockets into Israel. The extensive tunnel industry may be used for weapons transport. I believe it's wrong to transport weapons, and it's wrong to develop, store, sell or use them. Distant thuds reinforce this belief, but if the U.S. and Israel believe importation of weapons via underground tunnels is wrongful, then the U.S. transfer of sophisticated weaponry to Israel must, seen in perspective, be abominable, given the slaughter Israel has inflicted on Gazan civilians since the airstrikes began on December 27th. The taxpayers of the U.S. provided Israel with F16 fighter jets and missiles to carry out these attacks. From 2001 – 2006, the United States transferred to Israel more than $200 million worth of spare parts to fly its fleet of F16s. Last year, the United States signed a $1.3 billion contract with Raytheon to transfer to Israel thousands of TOW, Hellfire, and "bunker buster" missiles. In July 2008, the United States gave Israel 186 million gallons of JP-8 aviation jet fuel. U.S. donations of jet fuel enable Israel to fire missiles into Gazan homes, streets, schools and hospitals. Meanwhile, ambulances drivers in Gaza, also directly targeted, don't have enough diesel fuel to bring injured and wounded people to the Rafah border crossing, where patients might be allowed to enter Egypt for critically needed care. Within Gaza, even before December 27th, civilians lacked essential fuels to power the main power plant, which operated at about 2/3 capacity. Now, it's inoperative. When trucks don't have fuel, this means that rubbish can't be collected. Hundreds of tons of rubbish went uncollected in Gaza because of the blockade. 77,000 cubic meters of raw and partially treated sewage were dumped into the sea. Farmers couldn't operate 70% of their agricultural wells. Power cuts affected hospitals, water pumps, sewage treatment plants, bakeries and other facilities dependent on back-up diesel generators. Now Gazans not only face the consequences of a destroyed health care system and rising sickness due to water-borne diseases, they also face the reality that Hamas could be forced to sign a cease-fire that doesn't allow for opening the Rafah border and which insists that Egypt assume responsibility to prevent usage of underground tunnels. In exchange for relief from cowering under bombs fired by sophisticated weapon systems, Gazans would be required to endure slow motion death through systematic cutoffs of their access to food, medicine, and potable water. This is why it is so important for people all over the world to insist that Israel not only stop attacking Gaza, but also end the brutal and lethally punitive blockade imposed on Gaza. Here in Egypt, the government has stated that it will undertake responsibility to be an effective partner in negotiating a cease-fire. Israelis expect Egyptians to stop the tunnel industry. Egypt would be responsible to assure that no one enters a tunnel, builds a tunnel, or is an accomplice to maintaining a tunnel. Already, any Egyptian caught inside a tunnel faces 15 years in prison. How much better for all concerned if the cease-fire negotiations asked the Egyptians to maintain an open border with Gaza, to lift the punitive blockade, and to assist in the immediate and ongoing transport of goods and services that could help Gaza rebuild and assume responsibility, above-ground, for maintaining its citizenry and its sovereignty. Egypt, the second largest recipient of military aid from the U.S., will be encouraged to use threat and force to curtail the tunnels, supposedly in the name of insuring security for Israel. But who will challenge the obscenely bloated so-called "defense industry" that allows elite gangs, some comfortably occupying the board rooms of major corporations, to supply a repressive, immoral and illegal occupation force with the disproportionate capacity to kill, using conventional weapons against civilian people who have no means to escape? U.S. support for hard-line, extremist Israeli government policies again represents tunnel vision by choice. U.S. foreign policy makers can begin a cure for this dangerously impaired vision by recognizing the basic human rights of all Palestinian people, and at this crucial moment by caring for the survival and dignity of Gazan people, especially those for whom meeting basic needs depends on what might come through a tunnel. ---------- --- Voices for Creative Nonviolence 1249 W Argyle Street #2, Chicago, IL 60640 Phone: (773) 878-3815 E-mail: info@vcnv.org web: www.vcnv.org To unsubscribe from this list, send an email with any subject or body from the subscribed address to vcnv-newsletter-off@list.voicesforcreativenonviolence.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: 1/9/2009 7:59 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 What has been the reason for the blockade of Gaza? I can see Israel wanting to keep any arms from going into Gaza, but why would they block things like food and medical supplies? I find it hard to believe they've been doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 What has been the reason for the blockade of Gaza? I can see Israel wanting to keep any arms from going into Gaza, but why would they block things like food and medical supplies? I find it hard to believe they've been doing that. Ron, I think they have being doing that, probably because they fear it contains arms in some respect. Not good enough, IMO. They MUST let those supplies through. If the Red Cross are complaining, then I am listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigdem Göle Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) but why would they block things like food and medical supplies? I find it hard to believe they've been doing that. I have no idea why they don't let Red Cross in but they let Red Crescent medical team and 11 trucks loaded with medical supplies and food into Gaza. Photos are taken from the Turkish Red Crescent official website. http://www.kizilay.org.tr/english/index.php Edited January 16, 2009 by Cigdem Eksi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigdem Göle Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 UN levels war crimes warning at Israel http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun More than 750 Palestinians have died since the start of the Israeli military operation. More than half of Gaza's population are children, and the Palestinian ministry of health said about 42% of the casualties have been children. Unicef said at least 100 children and minors were killed in the first 10 days of fighting. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, which posts staff at hospitals to track casualties, put this number at more than 160. Stop child slaughter. Have mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Letter in today's Guardian that I fully support (signed by 330 academics): The massacres in Gaza are the latest phase of a war that Israel has been waging against the people of Palestine for more than 60 years. The goal of this war has never changed: to use overwhelming military power to eradicate the Palestinians as a political force, one capable of resisting Israel's ongoing appropriation of their land and resources. Israel's war against the Palestinians has turned Gaza and the West Bank into a pair of gigantic political prisons. There is nothing symmetrical about this war in terms of principles, tactics or consequences. Israel is responsible for launching and intensifying it, and for ending the most recent lull in hostilities. Israel must lose. It is not enough to call for another ceasefire, or more humanitarian assistance. It is not enough to urge the renewal of dialogue and to acknowledge the concerns and suffering of both sides. If we believe in the principle of democratic self-determination, if we affirm the right to resist military aggression and colonial occupation, then we are obliged to take sides... against Israel, and with the people of Gaza and the West Bank. We must do what we can to stop Israel from winning its war. Israel must accept that its security depends on justice and peaceful coexistence with its neighbours, and not upon the criminal use of force. We believe Israel should immediately and unconditionally end its assault on Gaza, end the occupation of the West Bank, and abandon all claims to possess or control territory beyond its 1967 borders. We call on the British government and the British people to take all feasible steps to oblige Israel to comply with these demands, starting with a programme of boycott, divestment and sanctions. 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Ron Ecker Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Israel must accept that its security depends on justice and peaceful coexistence with its neighbours, and not upon the criminal use of force. This statement doesn't make any sense. How can Israel's security depend on "peaceful coexistence" with neighbors whose leaders, be they in Gaza City, Damascus, or Tehran, want to see Israel destroyed? In a nutshell (and please tell me where I'm wrong or off-base), here is the history of this conflict. Rightly or wrongly, the state of Israel was established in 1948. At the time, the Palestinians were offered a state and refused it. Israel's neighbors then went to war against Israel. Israel won the war, but has been attacked by neighboring terrorists ever since, and has responded ever since. I have said before, and say again, that there is no solution to this, based to a large extent, I believe, on the extreme religious element involved: The notion of infidels encamped in the world of Islam who must be expelled. As long as this irrational notion is encamped in the heads of Muslim extremists, there can be no peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Drago Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) Israel must lose. If the arc of the universe truly bends toward justice, then Israel surely will lose. But I agree with John Simkin and the letter's signatories that all people of conscience must spare no effort to hasten that day. Edited January 16, 2009 by Charles Drago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 In a nutshell (and please tell me where I'm wrong or off-base), here is the history of this conflict. Rightly or wrongly, the state of Israel was established in 1948. At the time, the Palestinians were offered a state and refused it. Israel's neighbors then went to war against Israel. Israel won the war, but has been attacked by neighboring terrorists ever since, and has responded ever since. I have said before, and say again, that there is no solution to this, based to a large extent, I believe, on the extreme religious element involved: The notion of infidels encamped in the world of Islam who must be expelled. As long as this irrational notion is encamped in the heads of Muslim extremists, there can be no peace. The history of the conflict in a nutshell, from the Lawrence of Cyberia site: http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2008/12/what-if.html This is good. The past 5000 years of the region's history in a 90 second flashmap. From LOC again, via Syd Walker's blog (highly recommended): http://sydwalker.info/blog/2009/01/16/3000...-in-90-seconds/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) but why would they block things like food and medical supplies? I find it hard to believe they've been doing that. I have no idea why they don't let Red Cross in but they let Red Crescent medical team and 11 trucks loaded with medical supplies and food into Gaza. Photos are taken from the Turkish Red Crescent official website. http://www.kizilay.org.tr/english/index.php you don't, Cigdem? There's been a pissing match over the Red Cross and some of its "old" actions for years.... Perhaps a Google search or two is a good place to start. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_...f_the_Red_Cross (item 6.1 in the contents) and there is this Red Cross reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...s#The_Holocaust (item 1.5 in the contents) The HolocaustBy taking part in the 1995 ceremony to commemorate the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp, the President of the ICRC, Cornelio Sommaruga, sought to show that the organization was fully aware of the gravity of The Holocaust and the need to keep the memory of it alive, so as to prevent any repetition of it. He paid tribute to all those who had suffered or lost their lives during the war and publicly regretted the past mistakes and shortcomings of the Red Cross with regard to the victims of the concentration camps.[6] In 2002, an ICRC official outlined some of the lessons the organization has learned from the failure: * from a legal point of view, the work that led to the adoption of the Geneva Convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war; * from an ethical point of view, the adoption of the declaration of the Fundamental Principles of the Red Cross and Red Crescent, building on the distinguished work of Max Huber and the late Jean Pictet, in order to prevent any more abuses such as those that occurred within the Movement after Hitler rose to power in 1933; * on a political level, the ICRC's relationship with Switzerland was redesigned to ensure its independence; * with a view to keeping memories alive, the ICRC accepted, in 1955, to take over the direction of the International Tracing Service where records from concentration camps are maintained; * finally, to establish the historical facts of the case, the ICRC invited Jean-Claude Favez to carry out an independent investigation of its activities on behalf of the victims of Nazi persecution, and gave him unfettered access to its archives relating to this period; out of concern for transparency, the ICRC also decided to give all other historians access to its archives dating back more than 50 years; having gone over the conclusions of Favez's work, the ICRC acknowledged its past failings and expressed its regrets in this regard.[7] In an official statement made on 27 January 2005, the anniversary of the liberation of Auswitz, the ICRC stated: Auschwitz also represents the greatest failure in the history of the ICRC, aggravated by its lack of decisiveness in taking steps to aid the victims of Nazi persecution. This failure will remain part of the ICRC's memory, as will the courageous acts of individual ICRC delegates at the time.[8] apparently the Jews still don't trust the IRC. -- then there's that long standing debate over THE Red 'Crescent' the symbol, so, why not the Red 'Star of David', too? www.ifrc.org Many twists and turns, not to mention, disinfo from both sides of the "Israelii" question. Your question is a good one and demands understanding of the entire problem... Edited January 16, 2009 by David G. Healy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The history of the conflict in a nutshell, from the Lawrence of Cyberia site:http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2008/12/what-if.html That article offers a poor analogy in asking what Americans would do if Zionists wanted to establish their own state in America. To begin with, there were no Jews in America before the "white man" came, only Indians. But there were Jews in Palestine before the "Palestinians." There were two Jewish states there, Israel and Judea. The Romans kicked out the Jews, but centuries later some of their descendants came back to Palestine looking for a homeland. The idea was to establish two states, Israel and Palestine, but the Palestinians refused, and the rest, as they say, is history. Now if you want an American analogy to the Gaza problem, here's one. The white man displaced the Indians, like the Jews displaced Palestinians, and many of the Indians who remain now live on reservations. You can say that what the white man did was wrong, and what the Jews did was wrong, and I won't argue either point. But suppose that some Indians on a reservation decided to do something about this, and started lobbing rockets at the white folks living in, say, Arizona or Oklahoma (as if this was going to solve anything). If the only way to stop these Indians from firing rockets at the citizens of Arizona or Oklahoma was to go into the reservation and root them out, even if it meant some Indian women and children might be harmed in the process, would the National Guard or some other armed entity of Arizona or Oklahoma be justified in going in and rooting them out? You betcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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