John Dolva Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Muchmore over Bond.Nice fit. chris Thank you, Chris, the best step forward is confirmatory independent research, as is successful refutation of course. A hypothesis moves into a different arena. Ace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Muchmore over Bond.Nice fit. chris Not wanting to steer away from the "Bond" issue, the Muchmore alignment has it's own little secrets as well. Such as the fact of "PT-A" which the WC had Mr. West survey in and establish. And which point can only be re-established onto the WC survey plat through the understanding of Mr. West's survey notes. So, primarily, PT-A is relative to the Muchmore position and film, although it also has bearing on the Z313 impact position as well as the Moorman/Hill position at the yellow curb stripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Tom, Please continue with Bond. I'll try not to sidetrack you with Muchmore. However, would this be appropriate? thanks chris Edited January 22, 2009 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Tom,Please continue with Bond. I'll try not to sidetrack you with Muchmore. However, would this be appropriate? thanks chris Chris. Nice work on the Muchmore over Bond GIF Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Tom,Please continue with Bond. I'll try not to sidetrack you with Muchmore. However, would this be appropriate? thanks chris Most definitively! Merely looking through my "sack of keys", and although previously provided, thought that just a few more would understand the significance of "PT-A" survey point if I again provided it in direct correlation as to why the WC had Mr. West establish it. As Robin has stated, your work is up to it's usual par of excellence. And, one certainly must not be afraid to make errors, as one can sometimes learn as much from making an error as they do from resolution of the problem. Rest assured, I have made many, and, since so much of this is from memory and not the boxes stacked in the shed, one can expect more. Nevertheless, for those who are searching for factual information, this, "THE EDUCATION FORUM", would appear to have an upper edge on putting to rest many of the myths of the assassination. Now, in event that someone will re-post the photo of the Newman family which was taken from the Press car*, we just may be able to get back around to the "Bond" photo, which one must understand. *Lost all my files in the latest "herpes attack" on my computer. My computer whiz/lawyer to be son just came down from Oklahoma to visit, and helped me out a little anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Tom,Please continue with Bond. I'll try not to sidetrack you with Muchmore. However, would this be appropriate? thanks chris Most definitively! Merely looking through my "sack of keys", and although previously provided, thought that just a few more would understand the significance of "PT-A" survey point if I again provided it in direct correlation as to why the WC had Mr. West establish it. As Robin has stated, your work is up to it's usual par of excellence. And, one certainly must not be afraid to make errors, as one can sometimes learn as much from making an error as they do from resolution of the problem. Rest assured, I have made many, and, since so much of this is from memory and not the boxes stacked in the shed, one can expect more. Nevertheless, for those who are searching for factual information, this, "THE EDUCATION FORUM", would appear to have an upper edge on putting to rest many of the myths of the assassination. Now, in event that someone will re-post the photo of the Newman family which was taken from the Press car*, we just may be able to get back around to the "Bond" photo, which one must understand. *Lost all my files in the latest "herpes attack" on my computer. My computer whiz/lawyer to be son just came down from Oklahoma to visit, and helped me out a little anyway. P.S. Why "Bond" and what we see in "Muchmore" are reliable! Mr. SPECTER. Did you analyze any other film in connection with this inquiry? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. I analyzed a film that was 8-mm. motion picture film taken by Mrs. Mary Muchmore of Dallas, Tex. Mr. SPECTER. How did you obtain a copy of that film? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Our first knowledge of this came as a result of a review of the book "Four Days" which covers the assassination period, in which representatives of the FBI noted a colored picture taken from a motion picture film that did not match either the Nix film or the Zapruder film. Once we established that, then we investigated and learned that it was made by Mrs. Mary Muchmore, and was at that time in the possession of United Press International in New York, and made arrangements for them to furnish us with a copy of the Muchmore film. That is the copy that I used for examination. Mr. SPECTER. Where was Mrs. Muchmore standing at the time she took those movies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 One of these, hopefully. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 One of these, hopefully.chris Those will most certainly assist. And, although relying on memory, I was of the impression that there was another photo taken from the press car which was taken looking directly at James Altgens standing on the concrete. Of principal concern being the "construction" as well as the "expansion" joints in the concrete sidewalk and curbing.* *Of which some may merely be "crack control joints", but nevertheless are well defined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 B...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 B...... These may be a bit clearer Bernice: Click Here: Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Tom,Please continue with Bond. I'll try not to sidetrack you with Muchmore. However, would this be appropriate? thanks chris Most definitively! Merely looking through my "sack of keys", and although previously provided, thought that just a few more would understand the significance of "PT-A" survey point if I again provided it in direct correlation as to why the WC had Mr. West establish it. As Robin has stated, your work is up to it's usual par of excellence. And, one certainly must not be afraid to make errors, as one can sometimes learn as much from making an error as they do from resolution of the problem. Rest assured, I have made many, and, since so much of this is from memory and not the boxes stacked in the shed, one can expect more. Nevertheless, for those who are searching for factual information, this, "THE EDUCATION FORUM", would appear to have an upper edge on putting to rest many of the myths of the assassination. Now, in event that someone will re-post the photo of the Newman family which was taken from the Press car*, we just may be able to get back around to the "Bond" photo, which one must understand. *Lost all my files in the latest "herpes attack" on my computer. My computer whiz/lawyer to be son just came down from Oklahoma to visit, and helped me out a little anyway. Submitted for approval. CE883 appears to show a LOS from Z through the lightpole and onto Muchmore. The problem being, that is actually the LOS in the Bond photos. Another reason why CE883 was re-introduced as a new and improved CE884. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Tom,Please continue with Bond. I'll try not to sidetrack you with Muchmore. However, would this be appropriate? thanks chris Most definitively! Merely looking through my "sack of keys", and although previously provided, thought that just a few more would understand the significance of "PT-A" survey point if I again provided it in direct correlation as to why the WC had Mr. West establish it. As Robin has stated, your work is up to it's usual par of excellence. And, one certainly must not be afraid to make errors, as one can sometimes learn as much from making an error as they do from resolution of the problem. Rest assured, I have made many, and, since so much of this is from memory and not the boxes stacked in the shed, one can expect more. Nevertheless, for those who are searching for factual information, this, "THE EDUCATION FORUM", would appear to have an upper edge on putting to rest many of the myths of the assassination. Now, in event that someone will re-post the photo of the Newman family which was taken from the Press car*, we just may be able to get back around to the "Bond" photo, which one must understand. *Lost all my files in the latest "herpes attack" on my computer. My computer whiz/lawyer to be son just came down from Oklahoma to visit, and helped me out a little anyway. Submitted for approval. CE883 appears to show a LOS from Z through the lightpole and onto Muchmore. The problem being, that is actually the LOS in the Bond photos. Another reason why CE883 was re-introduced as a new and improved CE884. chris And I thought that I was going to have to post that again. Already had it copied and circled in red. Can I assume that you are well on the way to understanding the "riddle game"? Post #51 Mr. SPECTER. Where was Mrs. Muchmore standing at the time she took those movies? =============================================== Can I quit and go do something worthwhile now? P.S. Wanna try overlaping the Muchmore film with the Bond photo, in the area which includes the Zapruder alignment lightpole? P.P.S. As was long ago stated, neither the "identical" replica on cardboard, nor the purported actual survey plat (CE882 & CE883) are exact replica's. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464a.htm Exactly WHY? is it that one thinks that they reproduced this stuff so small? Run with that and see what you may actually come up with. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Tom,Please continue with Bond. I'll try not to sidetrack you with Muchmore. However, would this be appropriate? thanks chris Most definitively! Merely looking through my "sack of keys", and although previously provided, thought that just a few more would understand the significance of "PT-A" survey point if I again provided it in direct correlation as to why the WC had Mr. West establish it. As Robin has stated, your work is up to it's usual par of excellence. And, one certainly must not be afraid to make errors, as one can sometimes learn as much from making an error as they do from resolution of the problem. Rest assured, I have made many, and, since so much of this is from memory and not the boxes stacked in the shed, one can expect more. Nevertheless, for those who are searching for factual information, this, "THE EDUCATION FORUM", would appear to have an upper edge on putting to rest many of the myths of the assassination. Now, in event that someone will re-post the photo of the Newman family which was taken from the Press car*, we just may be able to get back around to the "Bond" photo, which one must understand. *Lost all my files in the latest "herpes attack" on my computer. My computer whiz/lawyer to be son just came down from Oklahoma to visit, and helped me out a little anyway. Submitted for approval. CE883 appears to show a LOS from Z through the lightpole and onto Muchmore. The problem being, that is actually the LOS in the Bond photos. Another reason why CE883 was re-introduced as a new and improved CE884. chris And I thought that I was going to have to post that again. Already had it copied and circled in red. Can I assume that you are well on the way to understanding the "riddle game"? Post #51 Mr. SPECTER. Where was Mrs. Muchmore standing at the time she took those movies? =============================================== Can I quit and go do something worthwhile now? P.S. Wanna try overlaping the Muchmore film with the Bond photo, in the area which includes the Zapruder alignment lightpole? P.P.S. As was long ago stated, neither the "identical" replica on cardboard, nor the purported actual survey plat (CE882 & CE883) are exact replica's. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464a.htm Exactly WHY? is it that one thinks that they reproduced this stuff so small? Run with that and see what you may actually come up with. Tom [b]Wanna try overlaping the Muchmore film with the Bond photo, in the area which includes the Zapruder alignment lightpole?[/b] When you give up on that one: Wanna try overlaping the Nix film with the Bond photo, in the area which includes the Zapruder alignment lightpole? In event all this is to serve any true purpose of understanding, one can rest assured that it has to do with the "meals on wheels" lamp post which has a tendancy to travel to various locations and alignments. It was still down on the sidewalk the last time that I checked it. Did you look to see if it is mounted on wheels at it's base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 While on "coincidences": http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z265.jpg What another unfortunate "coincidence". Ole Abe just barely managed to "cut off" whoever was wherever! How unfortunate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 http://www.jfk-online.com/zaprudershaw.html THE COURT: Let us see this exhibit. What is that and who is that and who are you going to use to identify it? MR. OSER: Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Robert West, who is the County Surveyor for Dallas, Texas and has been since 1944. THE COURT: The County Surveyor would be the person who could say whether or not this is a true representation of that area on that date. What date was is taken? MR. OSER: I don't know the date it was taken, Your Honor, but this represents Dealey Plaza on November 22. THE COURT: The materiality depends upon it portraying the conditions that existed at 12:15 on November 22, 1963. If it does then it is relevant, if it does not, it is not. MR. OSER: Mr. West can identify it as to the topographical arrangements and the buildings and streets and other things being the same in this picture as they were on November 22, 1963. THE COURT: What about the trees, are the trees the same? MR. OSER: I think the gentleman could also testify to that, Your Honor. THE COURT: What is your next one? Let us give them a number. That one will be -- MR. OSER: This is S-34. THE COURT: The other one will be what? MR. OSER: S-35, Your Honor. THE COURT: Tell us what that is supposed to be. MR. OSER: It is the survey plat made by Mr. Robert West, drawn by him for the FBI, for the Federal Government on May 31, 1964. THE COURT: What year? MR. OSER: May 31, 1964 it is certified to, and I think Mr. West will testify in his opinion it actually represents what the land and topographical area was on November 22, 1963 =============================== http://www.jfk-online.com/westshaw.html Q: Mr. West, I direct your attention to what the State has previously marked as S-34, which purports to be an aerial photograph, and I ask you whether or not you can tell the Court of what this is a photograph? If you cannot see it plainly you can step over here. A: I believe I can see it. It is a photograph of part of Dealey Plaza at the intersection of Houston, Elm, Main and Commerce in Dallas. BY MR. SCIAMBRA: Q: Did you have occasion during the course of your duties to survey and draw a survey plat for the Federal Bureau of Investigation relative to Dealey Plaza? A: Yes, sir. Q: Do you see that survey or reproduction of it in court today? A: I think it is on the easel over there on the left. Q: Would you please step down and walk over to the plat? A: April 31, 1964. Q: Is your name on the plat? A: My name is printed on the map and also my signature is on the map. Q: Are there any seals on the plat? A: There is a seal of the Public Surveyor's Office. Q: Was this seal placed on the plat by you? A: Yes, sir. =========================================== Like to take an "Educational Forum" guess as to what just became the "official" survey plat? =========================================== Q: Please return to your seat. Mr. West, you have inspected what has been marked as S-36, is that correct, sir? A: Yes, sir. Q: Do you recognize this as being any particular location? A: Well, it is basically the same area as covered in the photograph. Commerce, Main, Elm and Houston Streets, showing the courthouse and the jail and so forth. Q: As a result of your inspection were you able to determine any errors which might be represented here as opposed to the actual scene in Dallas, Texas? A: That covers such a multitude of things I don't know that I could answer that question. Q: Are there any major errors? A: I don't see any major errors. Q: Are there any buildings on here which are not in Dealey Plaza, Dallas, Texas? A: No. Q: Are there any streets on here which are not in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas? A: No, sir. ===================================================== http://www.jfk-online.com/orthshaw.html Q: Now, Mr. Orth, in connection with a subpoena issued by this court to LIFE Magazine, did you perform any function or develop any photographs? BY MR. ALFORD: Q: How many black and white prints do you have, sir, in your possession? A: I have none, only color prints with me. Q: About 21 or 22 8 x 10 color photographs. Q: Do you have them in your possession at this time? A: Yes, I have, in my brief case. Q: Would you please take them out, sir. A: Certainly (producing photographs). Q: How many of these photographs are there, sir? A: I believe there are either 21 or 22. Q: Would you count them, please. A: Yes. (Counting) Twenty-one. Q: Were these prints made by you personally or under your supervision? A: Some by me and some under my supervision. Q: I see. Do these prints accurately depict the scenes which they purport to? A: Yes, they do, yes, they do. THE COURT: May I suggest that you let Defense Counsel see these. MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir, yes, sir (Exhibiting photographs to Counsel). BY MR. ALFORD: Q: Mr. Orth, do these photographs have numbers on them, sir? A: Yes, they do, yes. Q: And what do these numbers represent, sir? A: Well, they actually represent the -- MR. DYMOND: Your Honor, we object unless it is first established who put those numbers on there. MR. ALFORD: Very well. BY MR. ALFORD: Q: Who placed the numbers on the pictures? A: I actually put these numbers on here personally. THE COURT: Louder. THE WITNESS: I put these numbers on there. BY MR. ALFORD: Q: And what do they represent? A: They represent the frame numbers corresponding to the original 8-millimeter movie film. Q: Thank you, sir. A: You are welcome. MR. ALFORD: May it please the Court, in accordance with the subpoena duces tecum I would like the record to presently reflect that these photographs have been turned over to the Court. BY MR. ALFORD: Q: Mr. Orth, do you have any slides in your possession at this time? A: Yes, I do. Q: Would you please take those out. A: Yes, sir (producing slides). Q: How many such slides do you have in your possession, Mr. Orth? A: From frame 200 to frame 320, so that would be 120 slides. Q: I see. And were these slides processed either by you personally or under your supervision? A: Yes, they were. (Slides exhibited to Mr. Dymond.) BY MR. ALFORD: Q: Now, Mr. Orth, I notice that these slides also have on them a number. Could you please explain l-- or did you personally place this number on these slides? A: No, not personally these numbers, but they were put on under my supervision. MR. DYMOND: Object. MR. ALFORD: He said they were put on under his supervision. THE COURT: What is the objection, Mr. Dymond? MR. DYMOND: I will withdraw that objection, Your Honor. BY MR. ALFORD: Q: And what do the numbers represent, sir? A: Well, again they represent the actual frame numbers to correspond with the original 8-millimeter movie film. MR. ALFORD: May it please the Court, at this time in accordance with the subpoena duces tecum I wish to present to the Court 120 slides from the Zapruder film, sir. THE COURT: Mr. Alcock, you have not given these an identifying number for an exhibit. Would you like the next number we have, merely for identification purposes? It would be S-53, the next State exhibit number. For the record, I think we should identify -- at least for identification purposes at this time we should identify what these are. MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. It is merely our intent at this time to make the return on the subpoena duces tecum, and, if it please the Court, at a later time we will number these items to be admitted in evidence. THE COURT: I would suggest you number them now. Make them S-53 for the photographs for identification purposes -- MR. ALFORD: Very well. THE COURT: And S-54 for the slides, for identification purposes -- MR. ALFORD: Very well. THE COURT: -- so we will know what we are talking about for the record. They are not accepted in evidence at this moment. MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. (Whereupon, the photographs and slides identified by the witness were duly marked for identification as "S-53" and "S-54.") MR. ALFORD: The State has no further questions at this time. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DYMOND: Q: Mr. Orth, when you say that these prints were made, some of them were made under your supervision, now, precisely what do you mean by that? A: Well, they were all made under my supervision, in my capacity; some of them were made by myself. There are approximately seven people that at one time or another were involved, but everything came through me and I was directly involved in the entire procedure. Q: Well, when you say made under your supervision, do you mean that they were made by employees in an office of which you are chief or at the head of the office, or what? A: That is correct, yes. Q: Were you physically present during the making of each one of these prints, observing the mechanics of making each one of the [sic]? A: Yes, very much so. I can tell you why. Q: Go right ahead. A: The reason was the importance of the films. We don't like to leave the film out of our hands at any time, out of the company vault. I signed them out of the company vault, and therefore I was responsible for it and I never left it out of my sight as long as it was in the lab, so while the film was being worked on and while these prints were made I was constantly there. Q: Would the same apply to the slides? A: Very much so, yes. Q: That is all, sir. A: Thank you. THE COURT: Do you have any further need of this gentleman? MR. ALFORD: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. (Witness excused.) MR. OSER: Your Honor, if the Court please, may I request that besides Mr. Orth being excused from the subpoena, also Time Incorporated be excused from the subpoena? THE COURT: You are excused from the subpoena. ================================================= http://www.jfk-online.com/bondshaw.html Q: What location in Dealey Plaza did you position yourself? A: The -- on Main and Houston Street. Q: Would you please step down. First I would ask you to step over to this large board here, and it has been previously marked as "State Exhibit 35," and please point out the location where you were, the position that you first were when you were in Dealey Plaza? THE COURT: I think it will clarify the record. Go put a "B" at the spot where you say you were standing there, please, "B" for Bond, and that will clear up the thing. (Witness making chart.) THE COURT: Circle it, please. (Witness doing so.) A: Well, I proceeded on over to the alcove, whatever you want to call it. Q: Now, Mrs. Bond, would you please step down from the witness stand and come over to this large map. I am going to give you a pin with a small flag which has your name written on it, and I ask you to please attach this pin to this large map at the location where you were at the alcove. Now, Mrs. Bond, I direct your attention to what, for purposes of identification, the State has marked as "S-34," and step over here, if you will. Now, I ask you whether or not you -- I ask you to place a small "x" on this which would indicate your position at the alcove. A: On here? Q: Yes. A: If it is the last one, it is the last whatever you call that, a pigeonhole, so to speak. It was the last pigeonhole or whatever it was, the opening there that I went to. Q: Will you place a small "x" at this point. A: Yes (indicating). ============================================== Now, in event that others missed it! The Clay Shaw trial was a complete sham which was utilized primarily in attempt to "cover" for any errors of Specter/Shaneyfelt/& Company, along with getting their hands onto what little outstanding evidence was known to exist which could have shed additional light onto the intentional obfuscation of the factual evidence. As example: Wilma Bond was informed to mark her first position on the "purported" survey plat. (S-35). However, when it came to positioning her location after she had moved over to the alcove, she was informed to mark this position with a small pin and a small "x", on the extremely small scale aerial photographs of Dealey Plaza. Of course, the use of the aerial photo worked well with the WC's little games (James Altgens secifically), therefore, if a "trick" works well the first time, one may as well continue to utilize it until caught on to. P.S. I do believe that after the Clay Shaw trial and accquisition of the Bond photographs, the Lamp Post took another move. 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