Oswald's "escape" from the sixth floor & Baker encounter

[John Dolva]

".."didn't think he'd be able to get out to see him," an odd comment from someone described by Roy Truly as "a great, big husky fellow."

"Isn't he described in an FBI document as 5' 9"? Hardly "great big and husky", ... "

The biggest and huskiest fellow i know is half a head shorter by me, and I mean big and husky. Height has nothing to do with it. ( Though sure, I've sen no pic of this particular person. ) Another guy i knew was not particularly big really , but tended to ''pump himself up'' in social contact depending on his mood. People often commented on how big he seemed to them.

...

"First, we must recall that the motorcade was running behind schedule by at least five minutes. "

Good point! ,,,,,

Can we say elderly Negro?"

Yes, in a town where uppity ones know their comeuppance.

...

"By the time Bonnie Ray Williams finished "washing up" in the men's lavatory (use your imagination!),.."

No, you stop using your imagination.

"..Even so, this fact gave Jack access to Troy West's wrapping table, as well as the paper and tape machine apparently used to construct the "bulky package" said to have contained the rifle, or for him to allow someone else access to it. For his part, Troy West said that nobody - not Oswald or anyone else - could or did get to it or borrow any from him at all the time he was at work.

There were three people who could have made the bag - West, JD and Piper. All had access when no one else was around."

Anyone who had a key to the place could have made or let anyone in to make the wrapping paper thingy anytime.

That'll probably be more than three.

"Jokes aside" - sure, why not.

......

"One question remains, and that is the complicity of Roy Truly in such an operation."

___

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Edited July 8, 2009 by John Dolva

[David Williams]

I agree that Truly certainly went out of his way to make Dougherty look slow in his testimony before the WC

[Duke Lane]

Bonnie Ray Williams had been on the sixth floor, supposedly alone, until he thought he heard Hank and Junior downstairs, at which point he rode down the east elevator to the fifth floor and joined the other two at the front window, according to both his own testimony and that of Junior Jarman (Hank Norman "couldn't remember" who was there first).

A story which is markedly different to what he said on 11/22 - as you are well aware, but deem to be the result of confusion amid turmoil on his and/or the part the those taking his statement.

Yet the first statement we have from Norman was taken in December - well after the mayhem of that day and THAT statement is also markedly different to what he would tell the WC. On that basis, I don't think your "chaos" theory holds much water regarding Bonnie Ray et al.

If there were someone on the sixth floor who was NOT Oswald and who remained a potential threat, would we expect that all of these fellows - all black in Dixie - would immediately cop to "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?" If, as Gary Mack apparently told someone here or elsewhere, all of them are dead, I guess we'll never know for sure. If any told their kids, would we believe them?

"didn't think he'd be able to get out to see him," an odd comment from someone described by Roy Truly as "a great, big husky fellow."

Isn't he described in an FBI document as 5' 9"? Hardly "great big and husky", though I guess Truly himself was the antithesis of his middle name-sake. But then, it always struck me that Truly was determined to paint JD as a Lennie Small type character. Did Truly ever buy him a mouse to pet, I wonder?

I'll ask around. Truly's middle name was "Sansom," not "Samson," but your point is made: all things are relative. All I can say at this point is that that's how Truly described him. Others' points here are also well made.

First, we must recall that the motorcade was running behind schedule by at least five minutes.

Good point! Now let's look at what time Eddie Piper ORIGINALLY said the shots occurred. 12:25pm! How did he know? Why, he ran to the nearest clock at the sound of the shots specifically to see what time it was. The question is, was the TSBD clock 5 minutes slow... or was Piper setting up an alibi on the basis of the time he THOUGHT the motorcade came by?

Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not accusing Piper of any shooting. I do think he was used and possibly set up and had that over him to keep him quiet. Scapegoats need alibis too, is all I'm saying... especially when they were in fact in the wrong place. Can we say elderly Negro?

All well and good, but can you put him on the upper floors other than by nobody else mentioning his being on the first floor? Of course, nobody was investigating Piper, so had no reason to ascertain where he might have been at any time. Nobody else mentioned JD either, who also wasn't being investigated or under suspicion of anything (after all, the perp was known and dead, right?). Nobody else even mentioned seeing LHO for that matter, which is the "damning evidence" that put him on the sixth floor to begin with.

The WC spent quite an inordinate amount of time questioning Piper about when and why he ever went above the fourth floor. Do you think maybe they suspected he was actually there on the 6th floor? Yes, I believe they did think that.

An "inordinate amount of time?!?" Six questions in seven total pages of testimony is "inordinate?"

#1 Mr. Ball. Did you ever go up on the sixth floor?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#2 Mr. Ball. Were you there at any time that day?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#3 Mr. Ball. Were you above the first floor that day up to the time of the shot?

Mr. Piper. Before the shot?

Mr. Ball. Yes. (6H384)

#4 Mr. Ball. Did you at any time go above the fourth floor on that date?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#5 Mr. Ball. Did you at any time go that day up above the fourth floor?

Mr. Piper. No--no, sir.

#6 Mr. Ball. You never did---either before or after the shots?

Mr. Piper. No, sir. (6H385)

Seven, and he'd probably have been "grilled" about it! No offense, but if this is what makes you think that Eddie Piper was actually on the sixth floor prior to the shooting - or that the WC thought that he was - you've got a lot less to go on than my hypothesis you're enjoying a good chuckle over.

More ...

[William Kelly]

Wait a minute Duke,

"If, as Gary Mack apparently told someone here or elsewhere, all of them are dead, I guess we'll never know for sure. If any told their kids, would we believe them?"

Dougherty isn't dead, is he?

And even if they are all dead, what's keeping us from determining the truth, especially if they were lying?

BK

Bonnie Ray Williams had been on the sixth floor, supposedly alone, until he thought he heard Hank and Junior downstairs, at which point he rode down the east elevator to the fifth floor and joined the other two at the front window, according to both his own testimony and that of Junior Jarman (Hank Norman "couldn't remember" who was there first).

A story which is markedly different to what he said on 11/22 - as you are well aware, but deem to be the result of confusion amid turmoil on his and/or the part the those taking his statement.

Yet the first statement we have from Norman was taken in December - well after the mayhem of that day and THAT statement is also markedly different to what he would tell the WC. On that basis, I don't think your "chaos" theory holds much water regarding Bonnie Ray et al.

If there were someone on the sixth floor who was NOT Oswald and who remained a potential threat, would we expect that all of these fellows - all black in Dixie - would immediately cop to "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"

"didn't think he'd be able to get out to see him," an odd comment from someone described by Roy Truly as "a great, big husky fellow."

Isn't he described in an FBI document as 5' 9"? Hardly "great big and husky", though I guess Truly himself was the antithesis of his middle name-sake. But then, it always struck me that Truly was determined to paint JD as a Lennie Small type character. Did Truly ever buy him a mouse to pet, I wonder?

I'll ask around. Truly's middle name was "Sansom," not "Samson," but your point is made: all things are relative. All I can say at this point is that that's how Truly described him. Others' points here are also well made.

First, we must recall that the motorcade was running behind schedule by at least five minutes.

Good point! Now let's look at what time Eddie Piper ORIGINALLY said the shots occurred. 12:25pm! How did he know? Why, he ran to the nearest clock at the sound of the shots specifically to see what time it was. The question is, was the TSBD clock 5 minutes slow... or was Piper setting up an alibi on the basis of the time he THOUGHT the motorcade came by?

Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not accusing Piper of any shooting. I do think he was used and possibly set up and had that over him to keep him quiet. Scapegoats need alibis too, is all I'm saying... especially when they were in fact in the wrong place. Can we say elderly Negro?

All well and good, but can you put him on the upper floors other than by nobody else mentioning his being on the first floor? Of course, nobody was investigating Piper, so had no reason to ascertain where he might have been at any time. Nobody else mentioned JD either, who also wasn't being investigated or under suspicion of anything (after all, the perp was known and dead, right?). Nobody else even mentioned seeing LHO for that matter, which is the "damning evidence" that put him on the sixth floor to begin with.

The WC spent quite an inordinate amount of time questioning Piper about when and why he ever went above the fourth floor. Do you think maybe they suspected he was actually there on the 6th floor? Yes, I believe they did think that.

An "inordinate amount of time?!?" Six questions in seven total pages of testimony is "inordinate?"

#1 Mr. Ball. Did you ever go up on the sixth floor?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#2 Mr. Ball. Were you there at any time that day?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#3 Mr. Ball. Were you above the first floor that day up to the time of the shot?

Mr. Piper. Before the shot?

Mr. Ball. Yes. (6H384)

#4 Mr. Ball. Did you at any time go above the fourth floor on that date?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#5 Mr. Ball. Did you at any time go that day up above the fourth floor?

Mr. Piper. No--no, sir.

#6 Mr. Ball. You never did---either before or after the shots?

Mr. Piper. No, sir. (6H385)

Seven, and he'd probably have been "grilled" about it! No offense, but if this is what makes you think that Eddie Piper was actually on the sixth floor prior to the shooting - or that the WC thought that he was - you've got a lot less to go on than my hypothesis you're enjoying a good chuckle over.

More ...

[Duke Lane]

If Euins man was Black, it was far more likely to be Piper than Bonnie Ray. And in the event it was Piper, the "bald spot" was likely the reflection from his glasses which he only wore while working, and may have had pushed up on top of his head when not needed. If Euins man was Caucasian, then there is thread over at Lancer which may have identified him.

In Amos' testimony, he was adamant that he did not describe the man as black or white, that a policeman had "interpreted" him to have said that. What he'd actually said, he testified, is that the man "had a white spot on his head." Bonnie Ray Williams later brushed one out of his.

The man standing at "parade rest" by another witness could conceivably have been Jack Dougherty, whose wartime service was entirely spent at an air base in Illinois guarding planes.

Except that you have JD as looking like Hulk Hogan... not the cool, svelte figure described by others.

Roy Truly described him that way, and my only comment on that was related to his supposed "inability" to have been able to see the President.

Even so, this fact gave Jack access to Troy West's wrapping table, as well as the paper and tape machine apparently used to construct the "bulky package" said to have contained the rifle, or for him to allow someone else access to it. For his part, Troy West said that nobody - not Oswald or anyone else - could or did get to it or borrow any from him at all the time he was at work. ... That leaves relatively few people, among those employed by the TSBD Company being: Roy Truly, O.V. Campbell, Jack Cason, Bill Shelley and Jack Dougherty (and possibly Eddie Piper).

Okay. Fair enough, you're right. Why pick on the poor working man? Anyone in management could have done it. And Truly is, let's face it, a suspicious character in all this. But you need to drop the "possibly" from Piper. His hours were different to the others and he did not leave the building until 7 or 8 at night.

... at which time a cleaning crew came in.

Oswald was beyond any doubt, on the first floor at the time of the assassination. Now if you'd only drop the nonsense about Bonnie Ray and the others... ! I live in hope

Ummm ... the only person who firmly places Oswald on the first floor at noon is none other than the "infamous" Eddie Piper ... and, of course, Oswald himself.

As to the "nonsense about Bonnie Ray and the others," Hank and Junior didn't come upstairs until they'd heard that the President was on Main Street. You can check Channel 2 to see when that was. It took a minute or two to walk around the building and take the elevator upstairs. Then BRW came downstairs, and Jack hung out by the elevators and stairwell and didn't respond to Truly's call for the elevator - neither his yell nor his ringing the bell - tho' he was standing right there, and was gone with it when Truly got to five.

Complete, utter nonsense. Nothing to it, I'm sure. Eddie Piper's our man.

[Duke Lane]

Dougherty isn't dead, is he? And even if they are all dead, what's keeping us from determining the truth, especially if they were lying?

Social Security Death Index shows a Jack Edwin Dougherty of Texas deceased in 1992, as I recall, at about age 69 or 70.

Actually, it's probably us who keep us from learning the truth. Jimmy Files would say he'd never heard of them, someone else would say that Mac Wallace told them that it was someone else who can't be named yet, Ed Hoffman never saw anyone remotely resembling them, and none of 'em drove a green Rambler anyway.

[Neville Gully]

Excellent thread!

According to his testimony BRW is on the 6th Floor because he thought other workmates would be viewing from there......

"Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the sixth floor?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.

Mr. BALL. Did anybody go back?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Nobody came back up. So I just left."

At this time we have BRW snacking on a chicken sandwich, JD working either on the 5th or 6th and a sniper hiding in the boxes. Noone reports seeing anyone. What if Lovelady and or Arce decide to do what BRW says they are going to do......come up to the 6th Floor? Seems like we might have 2 individuals guarding the critical area at the critical time. JD loitering around the lift/stairwell and BRW closer to the windows........just in case someone comes up they can be persuaded to move to a lower floor. Once the critical time is reached......say 12.25 both can move to the 5th floor and be confident that the sniper will not be discovered as the President is due.

Question is.......if JD was where he he said he was why didn't BRW and JD see each other on either 5th or 6th Floors and why didn't Jarman and Norman see JD if he was on the 5th when they arrived. If JJ and HN can be believed then one assumes JD is still on the 6th when they get to the 5th. If so, BRW should have seen JD on the way down to join the others.

As for the white/bald spot issue. This stuck me watching the 1964 CBS Warren Report video on Youtube courtesy od David von Pein. BRW has a distinctive receding hairline and the studio lighting gives him a white spot high on his forehead. Where was the sun shining from at 12.30........?

See image below.....I've altered brighness only to accentuate the spot.

[Greg Parker]

Height has nothing to do with it.

John, height has everything to do with the ability to see over a crowd.

Another guy i knew was not particularly big really , but tended to ''pump himself up'' in social contact depending on his mood. People often commented on how big he seemed to them.

The perception of others doesn't alter reality.

Duke cannot have it both ways. He wants him "big and husky" so that it comes across as somehow odd that he didn't think he'd be able to see the prez if he went outside. On the other hand, he needs him to be slender and no more than average height to fit the description of "Port Arms" Man.

[Greg Parker]

If there were someone on the sixth floor who was NOT Oswald and who remained a potential threat, would we expect that all of these fellows - all black in Dixie - would immediately cop to "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?" If, as Gary Mack apparently told someone here or elsewhere, all of them are dead, I guess we'll never know for sure. If any told their kids, would we believe them?

Noted. You're backing way from your Chaos Theory to explain away pesky initial statements and have entered the Southern Fried Dixie Zone where skin color determines levels of cowardice, truthfulness, integrity, fear and honor.

Truly's middle name was "Sansom," not "Samson,

His parents were dyslexic.

Roy Truly described him that way, and my only comment on that was related to his supposed "inability" to have been able to see the President.

Fine. But you then go on to speculate that he was the white feller seen by Rowland. He was slender and average height.

All well and good, but can you put him [Piper] on the upper floors other than by nobody else mentioning his being on the first floor? Of course, nobody was investigating Piper,

Piper was investigated as one of only two employees who fit Rowland's "elderly Negro". The other was Troy West. Piper better fits the bill and his alibi is more problematic.

He was also hauled in and interviewed by Special Services at DPD on Feb 17 as possibly being the subject of a newspaper report regarding a Negro who was on the 6th floor at the time of the assassination.

That report fits in with the early newspaper reports which echoed around the country eg "A building porter said he took Oswald to the 6th floor in an elevator. When he got out, Oswald asked the porter to send the car back up for him. The porter went to the ground floor to watch the Kennedy motorcade." Piper was not a porter - but he is described as one nonetheless in some other reports. He is also the ONLY employee who was said to have watched the motorcade from the first floor - and he admits that he spoke to Oswald at around noon - at which time they apparently discussed having lunch together - but instead, he has Oswald going "up" or "out" while he goes to a window.

Givens belated story about going back up to the 6th for smokes was pure hokum, designed to account for the above.

Ummm ... the only person who firmly places Oswald on the first floor at noon is none other than the "infamous" Eddie Piper ... and, of course, Oswald himself.

I said he was on one at the time of the assassination. Changing the discussion to noon gets us nowhere.

[Greg Parker]

An "inordinate amount of time?!?" Six questions in seven total pages of testimony is "inordinate?"

#1 Mr. Ball. Did you ever go up on the sixth floor?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#2 Mr. Ball. Were you there at any time that day?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#3 Mr. Ball. Were you above the first floor that day up to the time of the shot?

Mr. Piper. Before the shot?

Mr. Ball. Yes. (6H384)

#4 Mr. Ball. Did you at any time go above the fourth floor on that date?

Mr. Piper. No, sir.

#5 Mr. Ball. Did you at any time go that day up above the fourth floor?

Mr. Piper. No--no, sir.

#6 Mr. Ball. You never did---either before or after the shots?

Mr. Piper. No, sir. (6H385)

Seven, and he'd probably have been "grilled" about it! No offense, but if this is what makes you think that Eddie Piper was actually on the sixth floor prior to the shooting - or that the WC thought that he was - you've got a lot less to go on than my hypothesis you're enjoying a good chuckle over. wink.gif

Here is the complete discussion on it in context.

Mr. Ball.

You were at that window all of the time?

Mr. Piper.

All the time.

Mr. Ball.

Did you ever go up on the sixth floor?

Mr. Piper.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Were you there at any time that day?

Mr. Piper.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Were you above the first floor that day up to the time of the shot?

Mr. Piper.

Before the shot?

Mr. Ball.

Yes.

Mr. Piper.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Where?

Mr. Piper.

At 11 o'clock I went to the fourth floor to pick up.

Mr. Ball.

You went to the fourth floor?

Mr. Piper.

Yes, at 11 o'clock.

Mr. Ball.

And you worked there for how long?

Mr. Piper.

I would just take about 10 or 15 minutes to pick up--not quite

that long, to pick up the mail and stuff in the fourth floor office.

Mr. Ball.

Then what did you do?

Mr. Piper.

I came back down to the third floor and picked up and from there to the second and picked up and on to the first floor.

Mr. Ball.

Is that what you usually did---was pick up?

Mr. Piper.

Yes, sir; every day.

Mr. Ball.

Do you do that every day?

Mr. Piper.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

You pick up mail?

Mr. Piper.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

You pick up mail from what offices?

Mr. Piper.

From---what the name of the office is?

Mr. Ball.

The different offices?

Mr. PIPER. Oh, I pick up mail first---on the fourth floor is Scott Pharmacy, and I come down on the third floor and I pick up there in the hall, you know, they have a hallway there and they put it out on the table---the packages and the mail, and I pick it up there unless they've got a name on the boards to see them in the ,office and then I go in the office. That's on the third floor. I come down on the second floor and I pick up for Southwestern. I goes in the office and that's the only office I go in there at Southwestern. Like I say---unless there is anything on the board that says see Ion Cunningham, and then I go in there. That's on the second floor, and from there back down to the first floor, and I unloads on the table on the first floor and that's when I'm through---I don't go back no more.

Mr. Ball.

You do that every day?

Mr. Piper.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

At a certain time?

Mr. Piper.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

At what time?

Mr. Piper.

At 11 and 3.

Mr. Ball.

Now, that day, November 22, 1963, you picked up the mail on the fourth floor at 11 did you?

Mr. Piper.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And then came to the third?

Mr. Piper.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

And then to the second?

Mr. Piper.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

And what time did you come to the first floor?

Mr. PIPER. Well, it was close to---around about---it must have been about 11:30---about 11:30 when I came back.

Mr. Ball.

Did you leave the first floor from then on until lunch time, from 11:30 until 12?

Mr. Piper.

No.

Mr. BALL. What time was it that you spoke to Oswald and said you thought you would have your lunch?

Mr. PIPER. Just about 12 o'clock.

This questioning on his whereabouts is in excess of what others were put through who were deemed to have no significant information and were not eyewitness to anything.

[Greg Parker]

Excellent thread!

According to his testimony BRW is on the 6th Floor because he thought other workmates would be viewing from there......

Neville,

none of his co workers corroborated him on this arrangement - and the fact that none did actually go back to 6 does tend to suggest that no such arrangement was in place. It was a lie help prop up another lie - the one which placed himself on 6.

"Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the sixth floor?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.

Mr. BALL. Did anybody go back?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Nobody came back up. So I just left."

At this time we have BRW snacking on a chicken sandwich, JD working either on the 5th or 6th and a sniper hiding in the boxes. Noone reports seeing anyone. What if Lovelady and or Arce decide to do what BRW says they are going to do......come up to the 6th Floor? Seems like we might have 2 individuals guarding the critical area at the critical time. JD loitering around the lift/stairwell and BRW closer to the windows........just in case someone comes up they can be persuaded to move to a lower floor. Once the critical time is reached......say 12.25 both can move to the 5th floor and be confident that the sniper will not be discovered as the President is due.

Question is.......if JD was where he he said he was why didn't BRW and JD see each other on either 5th or 6th Floors and why didn't Jarman and Norman see JD if he was on the 5th when they arrived. If JJ and HN can be believed then one assumes JD is still on the 6th when they get to the 5th. If so, BRW should have seen JD on the way down to join the others.

As for the white/bald spot issue. This stuck me watching the 1964 CBS Warren Report video on Youtube courtesy od David von Pein. BRW has a distinctive receding hairline and the studio lighting gives him a white spot high on his forehead. Where was the sun shining from at 12.30........?

See image below.....I've altered brighness only to accentuate the spot.

The white spot was not said to have been on the forehead.

[Bernice Moore]

Greg, Neville : Here is a clearer photo of Bonnie Rae Williams...

Taken not too long after, I am led to believe.....

The one of bookeeper Otis was taken some years later.

These are all, that I have been able to gather of the TSBD employees in the past..

Hopefully others will become available within the books....

B....

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Question is.......if JD was where he he said he was why didn't BRW and JD see each other on either 5th or 6th Floors

and why didn't Jarman and Norman see JD if he was on the 5th when they arrived.

If JJ and HN can be believed then one assumes JD is still on the 6th when they get to the 5th.

If so, BRW should have seen JD on the way down to join the others.

Thanks Neville. This makes my head hurt. But can it all be explained if Jack Daugherty was on the fifth floor -- during the brief period before the shooting when the others converged -- but was out of sight of the stairway? I am not familiar enough with the layout or how boxes were stacked on the fifth floor to say how likely this might be, but I can imagine Jack busily looking among the boxes while behind him somewhere HN & JJ made their entrances and headed towards the front windows followed by BRW.

[William Kelly]

Question is.......if JD was where he he said he was why didn't BRW and JD see each other on either 5th or 6th Floors

and why didn't Jarman and Norman see JD if he was on the 5th when they arrived.

If JJ and HN can be believed then one assumes JD is still on the 6th when they get to the 5th.

If so, BRW should have seen JD on the way down to join the others.

Thanks Neville. This makes my head hurt. But can it all be explained if Jack Daugherty was on the fifth floor -- during the brief period before the shooting when the others converged -- but was out of sight of the stairway? I am not familiar enough with the layout or how boxes were stacked on the fifth floor to say how likely this might be, but I can imagine Jack busily looking among the boxes while behind him somewhere HN & JJ made their entrances and headed towards the front windows followed by BRW.

I was getting kind of dizzy myself there, but I found this handy TSBD witness testimony site:

http://www.jmasland.com/wctestimony/tsbd.htm

Now does Dougherty eat lunch before or after he hears the shot?

http://www.jmasland.com/wctestimony/tsbd/dougherty.htm

And how about J. R. Molina, whose involvement with the G.I. Forum gets him a visit by Dallas PD Intelligence unit - Gannaway and Revell, at 3 o'clock in the morning. You would think by then that they would have discarded the Communist Conspiracy and had already decided to go with the Lone-Nut scenario, but here they are, chasing that down late.

And Molina loses his job over it because the TSBD wouldn't back him - a subversive.

http://www.jmasland.com/wctestimony/tsbd/molina.htm

Edited July 10, 2009 by William Kelly