Capt. Michael D. Groves

[John Dolva]

[i note Erhardt there. (DeGaulls left) Is there a listing of names that includes Chancellor Erhardt (and Adenauers) Kriminalrat Ewald Peters?]

[Guest John Gillespie]

At least it's more worthwhile than chasing CVB.

Bill Kelly

______________________________________________________________________

Right on. RIGHT ON! And thanks for the ebook link on a previous post to the Dead Witnesses.

JG

Edited March 15, 2010 by John Gillespie

[Guest Tom Scully]

Len,

In the right column of this 1993 AP report, a man who claimed he served in the JFK honor guard under Capt. Michael Groves is interviewed, claiming that, after returning to their barracks "two hours after the burial," they learned of Groves' death.:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fE8eA...hours&hl=en

If it is an accurate recollection, it indicates the reporting of his Dec. 3. 1963 death is questionable.

The man interviewed in the article linked above was reported to be 56 years of age in 1993.

He was alive and well, living in Huntsville, AL, it is reported here, just 14 months agiu.:

http://www.al.com/politics/huntsvilletimes....xml&coll=1

Edited March 15, 2010 by Tom Scully

[William Kelly]

Len,

In the right column of this 1993 AP report, a man who claimed he served in the JFK honor guard under Capt. Michael Groves is interviewed, claiming that, after returning to their barracks "two hours after the burial," they learned of Groves' death.:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fE8eA...hours&hl=en

If it is an accurate recollection, it indicates the reporting of his Dec. 3. 1963 death is questionable.

Thank you Tom,

I am willing to accept the family got the date of death wrong a decade later, but am looking for evidence it happened sooner, as they asserted.

Why can't we come up with one photo of Groves at the funderal?

Thanks, and thanks to anyone else who has followed this thread and tried to answer the outstanding questions, that can and should be answered,

BK

[Guest Tom Scully]

Len,

In the right column of this 1993 AP report, a man who claimed he served in the JFK honor guard under Capt. Michael Groves is interviewed, claiming that, after returning to their barracks "two hours after the burial," they learned of Groves' death.:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fE8eA...hours&hl=en

If it is an accurate recollection, it indicates the reporting of his Dec. 3. 1963 death is questionable.

Thank you Tom,

I am willing to accept the family got the date of death wrong a decade later, but am looking for evidence it happened sooner, as they asserted.

Why can't we come up with one photo of Groves at the funderal?

Thanks, and thanks to anyone else who has followed this thread and tried to answer the outstanding questions, that can and should be answered,

BK

Bill,

Read my post again, I gave you a link to a witness who would likely consent to an interview. It describes him as an "historian." I am betting if he is cooperative, he can get you a photo of Groves in the honor guard between Nov. 23 and Nov. 25, if one exists, and he would know if Groves was there, and of Groves' funeral, and possibly refer you to other men who served under Groves in that period.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Tom Scully

[William Kelly]

Len,

In the right column of this 1993 AP report, a man who claimed he served in the JFK honor guard under Capt. Michael Groves is interviewed, claiming that, after returning to their barracks "two hours after the burial," they learned of Groves' death.:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fE8eA...hours&hl=en

If it is an accurate recollection, it indicates the reporting of his Dec. 3. 1963 death is questionable.

Thank you Tom,

I am willing to accept the family got the date of death wrong a decade later, but am looking for evidence it happened sooner, as they asserted.

Why can't we come up with one photo of Groves at the funderal?

Thanks, and thanks to anyone else who has followed this thread and tried to answer the outstanding questions, that can and should be answered,

BK

Bill,

Read my post again, I gave you a link to a witness who would likely consent to an interview.

Tom,

I'd just back off, and wait until a proper venue is established to take their testimony as such witnesses gets people in limelight and permits others to run interference, so the best policy is to sit back and wait for the opportunity to present itself at the proper time and place. Soon to come.

BK

[Guest Tom Scully]

It's probably too late to keep this guy on the back burner, Bill.

http://blog.al.com/huntsville/2009/11/an_h...ho_has_gon.html

...and if this "history" plays any part in your prediction, I wish you luck. Blood is thicker than water and my research indicates nothing beneficial is coming from Missourii. Maybe the apple occasionally does fall far from the tree, but I go with the notion that all politicians owe hidden debts.

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2000-10-11/.../pipe-schemes/5

...In an effort to ward off a federal anti-discrimination lawsuit against the union in the mid-'60s, Lawler hired civil-rights activist Bill Clay to work for the union as a minority recruiter. In 1968, Local 562 provided most of the money for Clay's successful campaign for the 1st Congressional District....

[William Kelly]

It's probably too late to keep this guy on the back burner, Bill.

http://blog.al.com/huntsville/2009/11/an_h...ho_has_gon.html

...and if this "history" plays any part in your prediction, I wish you luck. Blood is thicker than water and my research indicates nothing beneficial is coming from Missourii. Maybe the apple occasionally does fall far from the tree, but I go with the notion that all politicians owe hidden debts.

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2000-10-11/.../pipe-schemes/5

...In an effort to ward off a federal anti-discrimination lawsuit against the union in the mid-'60s, Lawler hired civil-rights activist Bill Clay to work for the union as a minority recruiter. In 1968, Local 562 provided most of the money for Clay's successful campaign for the 1st Congressional District....

Thanks for those links Tom,

So the black guy holding the casket is Bobby L. Hayden. Now we know the names of two of them. and Kathy C's Marine makes three.

And Hayden's still alive.

Does he have email?

He should remember if Capt. Groves died before or after the funeral.

I'd like to read the congressional record tribute to Michael Groves from Dec. 63.

Also JG, if you get a copy of the book Dead Witnesses, fill us in on what he says about Capt. Groves.

BK

Edited March 16, 2010 by William Kelly

[William Kelly]

Note from the former neighbor:

Groves was Captain of the (White House) Guard. The Captains are selected by the incoming president and serve as Captain of the Guard during that presidents term of office. Members of the Guard are selected from all branches of the armed forces.

...The White House is a military post and the Guard is there to protect the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces. Upon the death of the president the Captain of the Guard assumes command of the White House until such time as he is relieved of command by the newly sworn in president. In this case there were more than a few hours before LBJ could get back to Washington to relieve Capt. Groves. During that time he was privy to all communications coming into the White House.

The other thing I'd like to add is that Don and Gladys Groves did not take a bribe to keep quiet, as insinuated by someone else in the forum. I can only speculate that they were concerned for their daughters and grand childrens safety.

The daughter, as I stated in my conversation with you was very vocal about the "murder" of her brother. She told me that "they" tried to get her committed and "they" told her if she didn't "shut up" she'd never see her kids again. It doesn't surprise me that she died in 1978 about 5 years after her last conversation with me.

Just trying to set the record straight, PS. People who offend the sensibilities of the establishment usually get crushed or worse yet dead...be afraid. There are still individuals living who are part of the conspiracy. Arlen Specter being just one.

[John Dolva]

be afraid indeed, but if life is ruled by fear it's a life that somehow lacks

[Bernice Moore]

Bill could this been Michael Groves at Arlington, seeing he was Captain of the w/h guard he would take the salute wouldn't he...??????? b

Edited March 16, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Len Colby]

Note from the former neighbor:

Groves was Captain of the (White House) Guard. The Captains are selected by the incoming president and serve as Captain of the Guard during that presidents term of office. Members of the Guard are selected from all branches of the armed forces.

...The White House is a military post and the Guard is there to protect the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces. Upon the death of the president the Captain of the Guard assumes command of the White House until such time as he is relieved of command by the newly sworn in president. In this case there were more than a few hours before LBJ could get back to Washington to relieve Capt. Groves. During that time he was privy to all communications coming into the White House.

The other thing I'd like to add is that Don and Gladys Groves did not take a bribe to keep quiet, as insinuated by someone else in the forum. I can only speculate that they were concerned for their daughters and grand childrens safety.

The daughter, as I stated in my conversation with you was very vocal about the "murder" of her brother. She told me that "they" tried to get her committed and "they" told her if she didn't "shut up" she'd never see her kids again. It doesn't surprise me that she died in 1978 about 5 years after her last conversation with me.

Just trying to set the record straight, PS. People who offend the sensibilities of the establishment usually get crushed or worse yet dead...be afraid. There are still individuals living who are part of the conspiracy. Arlen Specter being just one.

So Bill

What steps, if any, have you taken to confirm this supposed ex-neighbor is who they claim they are? Has s/he offered you any documentation in support of his claims?

The claim Groves would have been "privy to all communications coming into the White House" reeks of BS

Also it was you, seemingly quoting him, who insinuated the father was bought off by Ford

Edited March 17, 2010 by Len Colby

[William Kelly]

Note from the former neighbor:

Groves was Captain of the (White House) Guard. The Captains are selected by the incoming president and serve as Captain of the Guard during that presidents term of office. Members of the Guard are selected from all branches of the armed forces.

...The White House is a military post and the Guard is there to protect the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces. Upon the death of the president the Captain of the Guard assumes command of the White House until such time as he is relieved of command by the newly sworn in president. In this case there were more than a few hours before LBJ could get back to Washington to relieve Capt. Groves. During that time he was privy to all communications coming into the White House.

The other thing I'd like to add is that Don and Gladys Groves did not take a bribe to keep quiet, as insinuated by someone else in the forum. I can only speculate that they were concerned for their daughters and grand childrens safety.

The daughter, as I stated in my conversation with you was very vocal about the "murder" of her brother. She told me that "they" tried to get her committed and "they" told her if she didn't "shut up" she'd never see her kids again. It doesn't surprise me that she died in 1978 about 5 years after her last conversation with me.

Just trying to set the record straight, PS. People who offend the sensibilities of the establishment usually get crushed or worse yet dead...be afraid. There are still individuals living who are part of the conspiracy. Arlen Specter being just one.

So Bill

What steps, if any, have you taken to confirm this supposed ex-neighbor is who they claim they are? Has s/he offered you any documentation in support of his claims?

The claim Groves would have been "privy to all communications coming into the White House" reeks of BS

Also it was you, seemingly quoting him, who insinuated the father was bought off by Ford

Hi Len,

I have taken no steps to confirm his bonifides as a neighbor, but I believe him after talking with him for an hour on the telephone.

He's not making any claims that can't be checked out, and there's no sense in checking him out when you can check out his source - the parents and sister - who are the ones we are seeking, right?

You want to kill the messenger, forget it.

The father of Capt. Groves, reportedly a Ford company official, was given a new car every year and a big pension and sent out to pasture. I never said the words "bought off," that's you speculating again.

As for Capt. Groves' job description, and what communications he was privy to, that and a photo of him at the funeral would be additions to the known record that you can help provide, but I don't think you have the research abilities to provide anything new. You want to pick a fight, but don't have a punch.

Prove me wrong.

Give me a real job description of Capt. Groves and a photo of him at the funeral he helped plan.

Bill Kelly

[John Dolva]

[there was a burial a month or so previously in the US where Erhardt and his (and Adenauers) Kriminalrat Ewald Peters was likely present. Ewald accompanied Erhardt to LBJ's ranch in dec 63. Ewald was trained by the US. He had friend/s in the SS team.

This is all just speculation: but an exploration may yield something from this direction. Perhaps Groves recognised Ewald as Erhardt was standing just to the top right of the coffin? Ewald was umasked by East German NAZI hunters, arrested in Jan 64 and was found hung in his cell shortly after. The case was closed, and Ewald seems to have been written out of history. AFAIK no identified photo of him has surfaced, but I'm sure there is one somewhere.]

[Len Colby]

Note from the former neighbor:

Groves was Captain of the (White House) Guard. The Captains are selected by the incoming president and serve as Captain of the Guard during that presidents term of office. Members of the Guard are selected from all branches of the armed forces.

...The White House is a military post and the Guard is there to protect the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces. Upon the death of the president the Captain of the Guard assumes command of the White House until such time as he is relieved of command by the newly sworn in president. In this case there were more than a few hours before LBJ could get back to Washington to relieve Capt. Groves. During that time he was privy to all communications coming into the White House.

The other thing I'd like to add is that Don and Gladys Groves did not take a bribe to keep quiet, as insinuated by someone else in the forum. I can only speculate that they were concerned for their daughters and grand childrens safety.

The daughter, as I stated in my conversation with you was very vocal about the "murder" of her brother. She told me that "they" tried to get her committed and "they" told her if she didn't "shut up" she'd never see her kids again. It doesn't surprise me that she died in 1978 about 5 years after her last conversation with me.

Just trying to set the record straight, PS. People who offend the sensibilities of the establishment usually get crushed or worse yet dead...be afraid. There are still individuals living who are part of the conspiracy. Arlen Specter being just one.

So Bill

What steps, if any, have you taken to confirm this supposed ex-neighbor is who they claim they are? Has s/he offered you any documentation in support of his claims?

The claim Groves would have been "privy to all communications coming into the White House" reeks of BS

Also it was you, seemingly quoting him, who insinuated the father was bought off by Ford

Hi Len,

I have taken no steps to confirm his bonifides as a neighbor, but I believe him after talking with him for an hour on the telephone.

He's not making any claims that can't be checked out, and there's no sense in checking him out when you can check out his source - the parents and sister - who are the ones we are seeking, right?

You want to kill the messenger, forget it.

The father of Capt. Groves, reportedly a Ford company official, was given a new car every year and a big pension and sent out to pasture. I never said the words "bought off," that's you speculating again.

As for Capt. Groves' job description, and what communications he was privy to, that and a photo of him at the funeral would be additions to the known record that you can help provide, but I don't think you have the research abilities to provide anything new. You want to pick a fight, but don't have a punch.

Prove me wrong.

Give me a real job description of Capt. Groves and a photo of him at the funeral he helped plan.

Bill Kelly

Even if I hadn't read the book or seen the movie you would have been unlikely to have Tom Sawyered me into doing YOUR research for you. While its true the supposed neighbor`s claims can be verified you have made no effort to do so. he's your source it's your area of interest its your vauge insinuations which don't even amount to a theory. You have yet to come up with a motive for murdering him let alone one tied to the assassination.

As for the possibility his dad was bought off you continue to insinuate that while refusing to own up to it. You are better then that, leave such sleezy tactic to Fetzer and his ilk.