Bernice Moore Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 http://www.john-michael.net/2009/09/spirit...-us-army-style/ b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Aftermath Theodore White, a very close friend of the assassinated president, devoted the entire first chapter of his second book in the Making of the President series, The Making of the President, 1964, to the assassination and funeral, which he covered extensively for Life. Theodore White on a book cover Theodore Harold White (May 6, 1915 – May 9, 1986) was an American political journalist, historian, and novelist, best known for his acclaimed accounts of the 1960, 1964, 1968, and 1972 presidential elections. ... A cover of Life Magazine from 1911 Life has been the name of two notable magazines published in the United States. ... http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/St...John-F.-Kennedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 The joint service casket team carrying Kennedy's coffin into the White House in the early morning hours of Saturday, November 23. Sgt. Richard Gaudreau is in the center on the right (near) side of the coffin. Lt. Sam Bird is at the back of the coffin, actually helping to carry the weight of the heavy casket. Later that day the casket team was expanded from six members to eight members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 ON THE IRISH GUARD IN ATTENDANCE http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/archi...php/t-2037.html FWIW b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) WEHLE.... http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Philip-C.-Wehle Edited March 21, 2010 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-memorials/arlington.htm To: "Bernice" <bmoore1242@ROGERS.COM>Since 1948, The Old Guard has been stationed in the Washington, D.C., area at Fort Myer, Va. and Fort Lesley J. McNair, D.C. As a Major Subordinate Command of the U.S. Army Military District of Washington (MDW), the 3rd U.S. Infantry is charged with the unique mission of providing security for the nation's capital, serving as the U.S. Army's official ceremonial unit and performing tactical infantry missions. As the U.S. Army’s official ceremonial unit and escort to the President, The Old Guard represents the U.S. Army and the nation through ceremonies and special events thousands of times each year. Familiar sights in the nation’s Capital, units of The Old Guard participate in official arrival ceremonies at the White House and the Pentagon for visiting heads of state and other foreign dignitaries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 not to allow this to side track the thread but someone i believe mentioned about what dignitaries were in attendance, so i snaggled this when seen... Arrival of Dignitaries As Kennedy lay in state, foreign dignitaries -- including heads of state and government and members of royal families -- started to converge on Washington to attend the state funeral on Monday. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and other State Department personnel went out to both of Washington's commercial airports, to personally greet foreign dignitaries. The United States Secretary of State is the head of the United States Department of State, concerned with foreign affairs. ... David Dean Rusk (February 9, 1909 – December 20, 1994) was the United States Secretary of State from 1961 to 1969 under presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. ... The United States Department of State, often referred to as the State Department, is the Cabinet-level foreign affairs agency of the United States government, equivalent to foreign ministries in other countries. ... Some of the dignitaries that arrived on Sunday to attend the funeral included French President Charles de Gaulle, West German President Heinrich Lübke, The Duke of Edinburgh representing Queen Elizabeth II, British Prime Minister Sir Alec Douglas-Home, Irish President Éamon de Valera, Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassieand and President Don Adolfo Lopez Mateos of Mexico. Many of the heads of state and government led delegations; for example, Lübke was accompanied by Chancellor Ludwig Erhard, Foreign Minister Gerhard Schröder, Defense Minister Kai-Uwe von Hassel, and West Berlin Mayor Willy Brandt. De Valera was accompanied by External Affairs Minister Frank Aiken, and his son, Major Vivian De Valera. Queen Frederika of Greece, and King Baudouin I of the Belgians were just some of the other members of royalty attending. Some police officials later said that it was the biggest security nightmare they ever faced. This article is about the person. ... Heinrich Lübke (October 14, 1894 – April 6, 1972) was President of the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) from 1959 to 1969. ... The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh (born Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark, 10 June 1921)[2] is the husband and consort of Queen Elizabeth II. Originally a royal Prince of Greece and Denmark, Prince Philip renounced these titles shortly before his marriage. ... Elizabeth II (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor; born 21 April 1926) is Queen of sixteen sovereign states, holding each crown and title equally. ... Alexander Frederick Douglas-Home, Baron Home of the Hirsel KT1 (July 2, 1903 - October 9, 1995), known from 1951 to 1963 as the 14th Earl of Home, was a British politician, and served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom for a year from October 1963 to October 1964. ... Éamon de Valera[1][2] (IPA: ) (Irish: ) (born Edward George de Valera 14 October 1882 – 29 August 1975) was one of the dominant political figures in 20th century Ireland. ... Haile Selassie Haile Selassie (Power of Trinity) (July 23, 1892 – August 27, 1975) was the last Emperor (1930–1936; 1941–1974) of Ethiopia, and is a religious symbol in the Rastafarian movement. ... Adolfo López Mateos (26 May 1909 – 22 September 1969) was President of Mexico from 1958 to 1964. ... Ludwig Erhard (February 4, 1897–May 5, 1977) was a German politician (CDU) and Chancellor of West Germany from 1963 until 1966. ... Gerhard Schröder (September 11, 1910 - December 31, 1989) was a West German politician and member of the Christian Democratic Union (Germany) party. ... Kai-Uwe von Hassel (b. ... For the Oz character, see Willy Brandt (Oz). ... Frank Aiken (February 13, 1898 - May 18, 1983) was a senior Irish politician. ... Frederika of Hanover, (Queen Frederika of the Hellenes) Frederika Luise Thyra Victoria Margarita Sophia Olga Cecilia Isabella Christa, Princess of Hanover, Duchess of Brunswick-Lunenburg 1917-1981 was Queen consort of the Hellenes (Greece) during the reign of her husband King Paul of Greece (1947-1964). ... http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/St...John-F.-Kennedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 ''(West German President Heinrich) Lübke was accompanied by Chancellor Ludwig Erhard ... '' I wonder if the Chancellor was accompanied by KriminalRat Ewald Peters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-memorials/arlington.htm As a Major Subordinate Command of the U.S. Army Military District of Washington (MDW), the 3rd U.S. Infantry is charged with the unique mission of providing security for the nation's capital, So Capt. Groves and the 3rd US Infantry were not only responsible for the funeral ceremony, but "providing security for the nation's capitol." I would assume that such security would include the security of the president and visiting dignitaries. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-memorials/arlington.htm As a Major Subordinate Command of the U.S. Army Military District of Washington (MDW), the 3rd U.S. Infantry is charged with the unique mission of providing security for the nation's capital, So Capt. Groves and the 3rd US Infantry were not only responsible for the funeral ceremony, but "providing security for the nation's capitol." I would assume that such security would include the security of the president and visiting dignitaries. BK From their homepage: "Mission Statement The 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard) conducts memorial affairs to honor our fallen comrades and ceremonies and special events to represent the Army, communicating its story to our Nation's citizens and the world. On order, conducts defense support of civil authorities and deployes elements in support of Overseas Contingency Operations. " http://www.army.mil/info/organization/unit...re/theoldguard/ It seems to be principally a ceremonial guard, like the guys with the funny hats in London, though I image they would use force in necessary . Real security for "the president and visiting dignitaries" is provided by the Secret Service,or at least it's supposed to be. Bill is your attempt to change the subject a sign you are giving up on this silly line of speculation? EDIT:Typo Edited March 22, 2010 by Len Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-memorials/arlington.htm As a Major Subordinate Command of the U.S. Army Military District of Washington (MDW), the 3rd U.S. Infantry is charged with the unique mission of providing security for the nation's capital, So Capt. Groves and the 3rd US Infantry were not only responsible for the funeral ceremony, but "providing security for the nation's capitol." I would assume that such security would include the security of the president and visiting dignitaries. BK From their homepage: "Mission Statement The 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard) conducts memorial affairs to honor our fallen comrades and ceremonies and special events to represent the Army, communicating its story to our Nation's citizens and the world. On order, conducts defense support of civil authorities and deployes elements in support of Overseas Contingency Operations. " http://www.army.mil/info/organization/unit...re/theoldguard/ It seems to be principally a ceremonial guard, like the guys with the funny hats in London, though I image they would use force in necessary . Real security for "the president and visiting dignitaries" is provided by the Secret Service,or at least it's supposed to be. Bill is your attempt to change the subject a sign you are giving up on this silly line of speculation? EDIT:Typo What's the silly line of speculation again? That his death is suspicious? That his parents would say that the official date of death is wrong? That his sister would say the government murdered him and threatened her? What's the silly part again Len? And it's not MY speculation, it's the parents and sister. I thought you were about to give up on your silly attempts to downplay murders and assassinations and debunking conspiracies and become a researcher and actually add some new information to what we already know, but I was wrong. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 can anyone identify these? _______ re the Captain. What sort of cap would he have been wearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 What's the silly line of speculation again? That his death is suspicious? Yes barring any evidence it was suspicious any speculation it was is silly That his parents would say that the official date of death is wrong? That his sister would say the government murdered him and threatened her? What's the silly part again Len? And it's not MY speculation, it's the parents and sister. If you had any evidence they felt this way you might have a case, but all you have is the word of the supposed ex-neighbor. Someone who claimed Groves parents said he died before the funeral despite the overwhelming evidence he participated in it. Someone who made the questionable claims the White House was a military installation and Groves as c/o of the CEREMONIAL guard would have been privy to post assassination communications to and from it. Someone whose claims and identity you apparently have made no attempts to verify. I asked you before if he live near Cleveland or Detroit and you didn't reply.Let me guess either you don't know his area code or it is for a location far away for either city. I know that proves little,Americans move frequently but if he lived in one metro areas the Groves did he would be slightly credible. The theory he died 8 days before announced is silly, did they stick his body in a freezer? Apparently he was rushed to the base hospital,do you think the doctors and nurses there could NOT tell the difference between someone who'd just died and someone who been dead for over 8 days? Perhaps they were all "in on it". An autopsy seems to have been ordered, was the corner part of the conspiracy as well? Why don't you file an FOIA request for the report? Below are as much of his obits I could get out of Google News and the NewspaperArchive without paying Chicago Tribune - Dec 4, 1963 KENNEDY RITE GUARD CAPTAIN DIES IN HOME. Washington, Dec. 3 UPI-A 27-year-old army captain who arranged military honors for President Kennedy's funeral Michael D. Groves, commanding officer of the 1st battalion, 3d infantry. He lived at Fort Myer, Va. He directed honor guards at the White House, the Capitol rotunda, Arlington cemetery, and the caisson detachment for the President's funeral procession…Groves, a native of Ann Arbor, Mich., was a graduate of Eastern Michigan College, and entered the army in 1959. He was married and had one child. Los Angeles Times - Dec 5, 1963 Michael D. Groves, 27, who commanded the ceremonial troops in President Kennedy’s funeral last week, died Tuesday night of a heart attack...told the House that Groves had overtaxed himself and died in the service of his country. "This is another tragic incident flowing from the assault on the government of the United States," Fulton said. New York Times - December 4, 1963, Wednesday Page 18, 55 words Honor Guard Captain Dies Michael D. Groves, who helped arrange military honors for President Kennedy's funeral; died tonight while dining with his family. He was 27 years old. Captain Groves directed honor guards at the White House, Capitol Rotunda, Arlington Cemetery and the Caisson detachment during the President's funeral. The Abilene Reporter-News Wednesday, December 4, 1963, Abilene, Texas Guard Chief at Funeral Dies Suddenly WASHINGTON (AP) Capt. Michael Groves, 27, who commanded the ceremonial troops in President John F. Kennedy’s funeral last week, collapsed and died of undetermined causes Tuesday night, A spokesman for the military San Antonio Express - December 4, 1963, San Antonio, Texas Funeral Captain Dies WASHINGTON (AP) A young Army captain who commanded the ceremonial troops in President John F. Kennedy's funeral died of undetermined causes Tuesday night. A spokesman for the military district of Washington said Capt. Michael Groves, 27, collapsed while eating dinner at home at Ft. Myers and was dead on arrival at the base hospital. He said an autopsy had been ordered. Vital Statistics Cedar Rapids Gazette - December 4, 1963, Cedar Rapids, Iowa Troop Leader at JFK Rites, 27, Collapses, Dies WASHINGTON Captain Michael Groves, 27, who commanded the ceremonial troops at President Kennedy's funeral, died of an undetermined cause Tuesday night. An autopsy was ordered. Groves collapsed while eating… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) What's the silly line of speculation again? That his death is suspicious? Yes barring any evidence it was suspicious any speculation it was is silly That his parents would say that the official date of death is wrong? That his sister would say the government murdered him and threatened her? What's the silly part again Len? And it's not MY speculation, it's the parents and sister. If you had any evidence they felt this way you might have a case, but all you have is the word of the supposed ex-neighbor. Someone who claimed Groves parents said he died before the funeral despite the overwhelming evidence he participated in it. Someone who made the questionable claims the White House was a military installation and Groves as c/o of the CEREMONIAL guard would have been privy to post assassination communications to and from it. Someone whose claims and identity you apparently have made no attempts to verify. I asked you before if he live near Cleveland or Detroit and you didn't reply.Let me guess either you don't know his area code or it is for a location far away for either city. I know that proves little,Americans move frequently but if he lived in one metro areas the Groves did he would be slightly credible. The theory he died 8 days before announced is silly, did they stick his body in a freezer? Apparently he was rushed to the base hospital,do you think the doctors and nurses there could NOT tell the difference between someone who'd just died and someone who been dead for over 8 days? Perhaps they were all "in on it". An autopsy seems to have been ordered, was the corner part of the conspiracy as well? Why don't you file an FOIA request for the report? Below are as much of his obits I could get out of Google News and the NewspaperArchive without paying Chicago Tribune - Dec 4, 1963 KENNEDY RITE GUARD CAPTAIN DIES IN HOME. Washington, Dec. 3 UPI-A 27-year-old army captain who arranged military honors for President Kennedy's funeral Michael D. Groves, commanding officer of the 1st battalion, 3d infantry. He lived at Fort Myer, Va. He directed honor guards at the White House, the Capitol rotunda, Arlington cemetery, and the caisson detachment for the President's funeral procession…Groves, a native of Ann Arbor, Mich., was a graduate of Eastern Michigan College, and entered the army in 1959. He was married and had one child. Los Angeles Times - Dec 5, 1963 Michael D. Groves, 27, who commanded the ceremonial troops in President Kennedy's funeral last week, died Tuesday night of a heart attack...told the House that Groves had overtaxed himself and died in the service of his country. "This is another tragic incident flowing from the assault on the government of the United States," Fulton said. New York Times - December 4, 1963, Wednesday Page 18, 55 words Honor Guard Captain Dies Michael D. Groves, who helped arrange military honors for President Kennedy's funeral; died tonight while dining with his family. He was 27 years old. Captain Groves directed honor guards at the White House, Capitol Rotunda, Arlington Cemetery and the Caisson detachment during the President's funeral. The Abilene Reporter-News Wednesday, December 4, 1963, Abilene, Texas Guard Chief at Funeral Dies Suddenly WASHINGTON (AP) Capt. Michael Groves, 27, who commanded the ceremonial troops in President John F. Kennedy's funeral last week, collapsed and died of undetermined causes Tuesday night, A spokesman for the military San Antonio Express - December 4, 1963, San Antonio, Texas Funeral Captain Dies WASHINGTON (AP) A young Army captain who commanded the ceremonial troops in President John F. Kennedy's funeral died of undetermined causes Tuesday night. A spokesman for the military district of Washington said Capt. Michael Groves, 27, collapsed while eating dinner at home at Ft. Myers and was dead on arrival at the base hospital. He said an autopsy had been ordered. Vital Statistics Cedar Rapids Gazette - December 4, 1963, Cedar Rapids, Iowa Troop Leader at JFK Rites, 27, Collapses, Dies WASHINGTON Captain Michael Groves, 27, who commanded the ceremonial troops at President Kennedy's funeral, died of an undetermined cause Tuesday night. An autopsy was ordered. Groves collapsed while eating… Now all we need is the report entered into the Congressional Record on December 4, 1963 and we'll have all of the proper announcements of his death. I missed the Cleveland or Detroit question, but have the street address and city and don't know what Cleveland or Detroit have anything to do with it. Don and Gladys Groves lived at 251 Euclid Ave. in Birmingham, Michigan 71-74. I've also sent an email to the Ancestory Mag writer who located the parents but didn't question them or the soldiers who served with him. FOIA takes years, and it isn't necessary in this case. Is silly Len's word of the day or is he going silly? BK Edited March 23, 2010 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Now all we need is the report entered into the Congressional Record on December 4, 1963 and we'll have all of the proper announcements of his death. Why would you expect his death to be listed there? I missed the Cleveland or Detroit question, but have the street address and city and don't know what Cleveland or Detroit have anything to do with it.Don and Gladys Groves lived at 251 Euclid Ave. in Birmingham, Michigan 71-74. Because the Groves lived in Greater Cleveland and Greater Detroit and if the supposed ex-neighbor lives in one of those areas his claim to have known them would be slightly less non-credible. Where did you get the address from? I've also sent an email to the Ancestory Mag writer who located the parents but didn't question them or the soldiers who served with him. Should he have questioned Groves’ parents via séance? They died 1993-4. He didn’t contact anyone from the family. Why should he have questioned the soldiers who served with him? Let me guess, he didn’t get back to you. It should be noted that (based on the article) though his parents and especially his maternal grandmother lived to ripe old ages his only sibling died at 37 and her only child died young as well. If the guy does get back to you ask him what they died of. It should also be noted his sister spoke to the author of the Cleveland Plain Dealer obit and doesn’t seem to have said anything about him have really died just before or after JFK’s funeral FOIA takes years, and it isn't necessary in this case. They can take years but often take a lot less time, were you the one going on and on about being doing real research? Wouldn’t that entail trying to get the autopsy report and/or death certificate of someone you believe was poisoned and only taken to hospital 8 days after he died? I note that you avoided dealing with explaining how doctors would be unable to tell the difference between some who’d died a few minutes earlier and someone who’d died over 8 days earlier. Is silly Len's word of the day or is he going silly? “Silly” is the best word to describe your posts on this thread,I can use less polite terms if you prefer variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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