Why do I have to do all of the photo analysis?

[David Butler]

Jerry,

I extacted that frame from a movie.

Sorry, I do not know who filmed it.

The beginning frames I have from Dorman are lousy.

chris

Chris,

You are a sphinx! Believe me, I mean that in the best possible way!

Are there any more good frames from the movie or was this it for our purposes here?

My very best regards to you,

Jerry

Jerry

The frame is from Don Cook's footage I believe

By the way thanks for pointing out the full plat shows Nix numbered locations from my earlier comment. I hadn't seen the full version..

Robin

I am interested in getting a copy of the DVD you recommended a few posts back but Googling around for "Murder in Dealey Plaza" seems to only bring me back a book by a member of this forum ? Is it known by any other title ? Thanks

David

[Jerry Logan]

In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner.

Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames.

Todd, that is a very astute observation.

[Jerry Logan]

In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner.

Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames.

Yes Todd, i think thats possible. In particular when looking at the first Hughes frame (man with yellow coat)

If thats the case, i think we see the back of Bothun (below of yellow coat officer)

best

Martin

Martin,

Bothun or Altgens? Why do you prefer Bothun?

Jerry

[Jerry Logan]

Jerry, yes, it's Bowers I'm most dubious about as well, but Bowers elevated position, the tree foliage, the elevated spot and the few photos I've seen taken from Bowers location seems to me to make it quite possible that a person there could have been hidden from his view, at least sufficiently camouflaged.

Best to you too Jerry.

EDIT ADD : This is from a later photo where the tree has grown but it indicates what I mean

John,

It's an interesting question. On Duncan's forum Martin and I spent a lot of the time in the car park so he has a lot of knowledge and might be willing to help out.

Consider this photo by Murray which we determined was taken from the north east wall of the pergola.

Also, have you looked over CE 2118?

Somewhere on my computer there's a Mark Lane photo from the tower but.... Bernice? Help?

But, even if we decide that Bowers could have seen it, it doesn't mean he didn't see it just because he didn't report it.

Jerry

Not the one I was thinking of but I found this.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Jerry Logan

[Jack White]

A few more frames John.

Robin, that Officer D.V. Harkness (thank you Todd) must be the cop in Bronson as well, ergo Hughes must be in the

LOS from Bronson's POV. Possibly the man with the black jacked without hat?

Martin

In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner.

Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames.

The blue/gray oval is RETOUCHING, not the hat of a person.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Jerry, yes, it's Bowers I'm most dubious about as well, but Bowers elevated position, the tree foliage, the elevated spot and the few photos I've seen taken from Bowers location seems to me to make it quite possible that a person there could have been hidden from his view, at least sufficiently camouflaged.

Best to you too Jerry.

EDIT ADD : This is from a later photo where the tree has grown but it indicates what I mean

John,

It's an interesting question. On Duncan's forum Martin and I spent a lot of the time in the car park so he has a lot of knowledge and might be willing to help out.

Consider this photo by Murray which we determined was taken from the north east wall of the pergola.

Also, have you looked over CE 2118?

Somewhere on my computer there's a Mark Lane photo from the tower but.... Bernice? Help?

But, even if we decide that Bowers could have seen it, it doesn't mean he didn't see it just because he didn't report it.

Jerry

In that Murray photo, in the background, just to the left of Bowers tower, is Harkness on his 3 wheel motorcycle cycle.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Todd W. Vaughan]

A few more frames John.

Robin, that Officer D.V. Harkness (thank you Todd) must be the cop in Bronson as well, ergo Hughes must be in the

LOS from Bronson's POV. Possibly the man with the black jacked without hat?

Martin

In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner.

Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames.

The blue/gray oval is RETOUCHING, not the hat of a person.

I don't agree at all.

[Martin Hinrichs]

Martin,

Bothun or Altgens? Why do you prefer Bothun?

Jerry

Jerry, as it is a certainty that Altgens was left (west/north) of Bothun would mean Bothun would between Hughes and the person below

DPD officer W.H. Denham in Bronson.

We would see Officer Harkness in his lens but we see only his shadow on the ground which is to me

a good indicator that this is actually Bothun and Altgens unfortunately out of sight on the left in this fine Bronson photo.

best to you

Martin

[Jack White]

A few more frames John.

Robin, that Officer D.V. Harkness (thank you Todd) must be the cop in Bronson as well, ergo Hughes must be in the

LOS from Bronson's POV. Possibly the man with the black jacked without hat?

Martin

In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner.

Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames.

The blue/gray oval is RETOUCHING, not the hat of a person.

I don't agree at all.

Who cares?

[John Dolva]

Jack, you are mistaking pixelation and color shifts (there's also a gamma blowout in the poor resolution lower). It doesn't take much to, when shifting red blue or green to get overall color shifts. The upper part of the frame is NOT the same at all, the top one is sharper for one thing, with a reduced blue and finer resolution, amongst other things). The more reasonable explanation is that it's from two versions, one of which has a defect (on more than one frame) and the other not. This is the same for a number of other versions of various films.

[Jack White]

Martin,

Bothun or Altgens? Why do you prefer Bothun?

Jerry

Jerry, as it is a certainty that Altgens was left (west/north) of Bothun would mean Bothun would between Hughes and the person below

DPD officer W.H. Denham in Bronson.

We would see Officer Harkness in his lens but we see only his shadow on the ground which is to me

a good indicator that this is actually Bothun and Altgens unfortunately out of sight on the left in this fine Bronson photo.

best to you

Martin

Do you people discussing BOTHUN have all of the early shots he took of the approaching motorcade?

Bothun allowed me to borrow his negatives and I made prints of the 3 motorcade approaching

and rounding the corner. He then sprinted from Houston/Main down the hill but arrived too late to get

a shot of JFK, but did get the well known shot of the aftermath with the sitting umbrella man.

The first two are not well known, as the motorcade is in the distance on Main. I have never scanned

the first two. I will try to find them.

[John Dolva]

Interesting Photo, Jerry. It seems to me that the lower branches and their foliage is quite low. Someone with a long dark overcoat could quite likely ''blend'' into the back of the shaded pergola with the trees help from Bowers pov. (Bowers himself I can't comment on. I don't know where in the wide window he sat (nor anything of his involvement directly. His death has to some some unanswered questions), but, keeping quiet could have been a desirable thing.)

[Jack White]

Jack, you are mistaking pixelation and color shifts (there's also a gamma blowout in the poor resolution lower). It doesn't take much to, when shifting red blue or green to get overall color shifts. The upper part of the frame is NOT the same at all, the top one is sharper for one thing, with a reduced blue and finer resolution, amongst other things). The more reasonable explanation is that it's from two versions, one of which has a defect (on more than one frame) and the other not. This is the same for a number of other versions of various films.

Both frames came from Robin and were enhanced together. You are implying that Robin manipulated

each of the frames differently. I doubt that he did. I am sure that he grabbed all the Nix frames in the

same manner and did not manipulate them. I certainly did not manipulate them differently. Each shows

what it shows and differences cannot be blamed on "color shifts" because the frames should be the same.

The oval shape shows DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL VERTICAL BRUSH STROKES in each of the frames, not seen

anywhere else in the frame. How can visual brush strokes be attributed to a color shift?

Edited February 11, 2010 by Jack White

[Todd W. Vaughan]

A few more frames John.

Robin, that Officer D.V. Harkness (thank you Todd) must be the cop in Bronson as well, ergo Hughes must be in the

LOS from Bronson's POV. Possibly the man with the black jacked without hat?

Martin

In Hughes, Harkness lines up with the mullion between the first two windows of the courthouse on it's south facade and north of it's southwest corner.

Given that, I believe that the tall man in the light blue shirt just to the left of Jackie in Bronson is Hughes. To his left are several men in blue/grey hats who could be responsible for the blue/grey object in the forground in the later frames.

The blue/gray oval is RETOUCHING, not the hat of a person.

I don't agree at all.

Who cares?

Well, apparently you do, Jack, as you're the one who's trying to tell me it's retouching.

[John Dolva]

Jack, Robin merely presented the frames, you know that, how you make that imto an implication by me that he manipulted them is really quite funny. You are the one who mnaipulated the frames in various ways. There are no brush strokes there . Point one out.