Why do I have to do all of the photo analysis?

[Jerry Logan]

Bronson showing the "end of the bus" as the motorcade approaches the Main Houston corner.

Would i be right in assuming that at least some of our photographers, would have to be standing in this crowd, in order to get a clear view of the motorcade as it rounds the corner. ?

Also the guy in the blue hat and blue jacket seen in the center of the photo, could be a contender for the hat object seen in the NIX frames.

Robin,

That's an excellent photo. A minor correction - the photo shows the right front of the bus. It does seem to show the bus that was stopped at the corner during the motorcade clearly blocking the Sprague/Cutler Nix location. Per Todd, they probably didn't have access to Bronson since the original plat appeared before the Bronson photos and slides were known.

Best to you,

Jerry

Edited February 8, 2010 by Jerry Logan

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Bronson showing the "end of the bus" as the motorcade approaches the Main Houston corner.

Would i be right in assuming that at least some of our photographers, would have to be standing in this crowd, in order to get a clear view of the motorcade as it rounds the corner. ?

Also the guy in the blue hat and blue jacket seen in the center of the photo, could be a contender for the hat object seen in the NIX frames.

Robin,

That's an excellent photo. A minor correction - the photo shows the right front of the bus. It does seem to show the bus that was stopped at the corner during the motorcade clearly blocking the Sprague/Cutler Nix location. Per Todd, they probably didn't have access to Bronson since the original plat appeared before the Bronson photos and slides were known.

Best to you,

Jerry

Jerry,

We knew about Bronson 3 (limo on elm Street) in 1981 because it had been published in Lifton's Best Evidence (and also in one of the Dallas papers), but we did not have the earlier Bronson images.

Todd

Edited February 8, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Jack White]

Bronson showing the "end of the bus" as the motorcade approaches the Main Houston corner.

Would i be right in assuming that at least some of our photographers, would have to be standing in this crowd, in order to get a clear view of the motorcade as it rounds the corner. ?

Also the guy in the blue hat and blue jacket seen in the center of the photo, could be a contender for the hat object seen in the NIX frames.

Thanks for the images, Robin! I have never seen ANY photos showing the bus! This means that Nix, Hughes, Bronson, and Altgens

must all be re-evaluated. Nobody has ever disputed their locations in the Cutler-Sprague plat. The Hughes film, for instance is taken

from south of the bus, but I recall no bus in the photo.

Thanks. This will require much study.

Jack

[Jack White]

Bronson Crop showing Skaggs with his camera up to his face.

And what may be Altgens standing at the front of the crowd getting ready to take Altgens 4 ?

( The position of this man looks good to cover the Altgens 4 area )

Altgens contact sheet Credit: John Woods.

Thanks, Robin...but photos of Altgens on Elm show him to have WHITE HAIR.

Jack

[Jerry Logan]

Jerry,

We knew about Bronson 3 (limo on elm Street) in 1981 because it had been published in Lifton's Best Evidence (and also in one of the Dallas papers), but we did not have the earlier Bronson images.

Todd

Todd,

Thanks for that additional information. Jack had posted the 1970 version of the plat and it was obviously not prepared with reference to any of the Bronson materials.

And, as you observed, the Huston/Main Bronson's weren't available to you in the 90's.

Best to you,

Jerry

[Jerry Logan]

Thanks for the images, Robin! I have never seen ANY photos showing the bus! This means that Nix, Hughes, Bronson, and Altgens

must all be re-evaluated. Nobody has ever disputed their locations in the Cutler-Sprague plat. The Hughes film, for instance is taken

from south of the bus, but I recall no bus in the photo.

Thanks. This will require much study.

Jack

Jack,

I think it would be more accurate to say that you'd seen the photos of the bus but hadn't realized their significance, perhaps because you believed the photos weren't taken at the time of the motorcade. You were one of the first to work with the Bronson images in the 80's so you saw the bus some time ago.

Jerry AKA Logan

Altgens on Elm from the rear.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Jerry Logan

[Craig Lamson]

Thanks for the images, Robin! I have never seen ANY photos showing the bus! This means that Nix, Hughes, Bronson, and Altgens

must all be re-evaluated. Nobody has ever disputed their locations in the Cutler-Sprague plat. The Hughes film, for instance is taken

from south of the bus, but I recall no bus in the photo.

Thanks. This will require much study.

Jack

Jack,

I think it would be more accurate to say that you'd seen the photos of the bus but hadn't realized their significance, perhaps because you believed the photos weren't taken at the time of the motorcade. You were one of the first to work with the Bronson images in the 80's so you saw the bus some time ago.

Jerry AKA Logan

Altgens on Elm from the rear.

Oh my gosh...look at that shadow!

[David Butler]

Bronson showing the "end of the bus" as the motorcade approaches the Main Houston corner.

Would i be right in assuming that at least some of our photographers, would have to be standing in this crowd, in order to get a clear view of the motorcade as it rounds the corner. ?

Also the guy in the blue hat and blue jacket seen in the center of the photo, could be a contender for the hat object seen in the NIX frames.

There also appear to be two men in similar hats to the right of Altgens right at the front of the crowd. Nix could be the tall thin man in the grey shirt and hat behind them who seems to have his arms raised. He would catch the top of the mens blue hats as he panned...He seems tall enough that that could happen anyway

[Jerry Logan]

Thanks for the images, Robin! I have never seen ANY photos showing the bus! This means that Nix, Hughes, Bronson, and Altgens

must all be re-evaluated. Nobody has ever disputed their locations in the Cutler-Sprague plat. The Hughes film, for instance is taken

from south of the bus, but I recall no bus in the photo.

Thanks. This will require much study.

Jack

Jack,

Simple visual inspection of the Hughes film shows that it was filmed from the north of the bus and that the Cutler/Sprague plat you've been relying on is mistaken.

It's relatively easy to plot Hughes location based on the lane markers for Main and Houston.

This gives us Hughes approximate place as the motorcade passes and the bus would not be visible in films of the motorcade from that location.

Jerry AKA Logan

[David Butler]

Looks a good call to me Jerry. The plat may be done from the point of when the authors felt was the most significant point of the filming sequence. For example the Nix point on the plat may actually be the point where they felt Nix filmed his most important sequence which was the assassination sequence. Not the first sequence where the limo rounded the corner,.....

Thanks for the images, Robin! I have never seen ANY photos showing the bus! This means that Nix, Hughes, Bronson, and Altgens

must all be re-evaluated. Nobody has ever disputed their locations in the Cutler-Sprague plat. The Hughes film, for instance is taken

from south of the bus, but I recall no bus in the photo.

Thanks. This will require much study.

Jack

Jack,

Simple visual inspection of the Hughes film shows that it was filmed from the north of the bus and that the Cutler/Sprague plat you've been relying on is mistaken.

It's relatively easy to plot Hughes location based on the lane markers for Main and Houston.

This gives us Hughes approximate place as the motorcade passes and the bus would not be visible in films of the motorcade from that location.

Jerry AKA Logan

[Jack White]

Thanks for the images, Robin! I have never seen ANY photos showing the bus! This means that Nix, Hughes, Bronson, and Altgens

must all be re-evaluated. Nobody has ever disputed their locations in the Cutler-Sprague plat. The Hughes film, for instance is taken

from south of the bus, but I recall no bus in the photo.

Thanks. This will require much study.

Jack

Jack,

Simple visual inspection of the Hughes film shows that it was filmed from the north of the bus and that the Cutler/Sprague plat you've been relying on is mistaken.

It's relatively easy to plot Hughes location based on the lane markers for Main and Houston.

This gives us Hughes approximate place as the motorcade passes and the bus would not be visible in films of the motorcade from that location.

Jerry AKA Logan

Thanks. You are approximately correct about the location of Hughes. How about Nix?

[Jerry Logan]

Thanks. You are approximately correct about the location of Hughes. How about Nix?

Jack,

I'm still processing that one - you don't happen to have a direct overhead shot of Main and Houston do you? I'm looking at manhole covers but there are two in the intersection.

Jerry

[Jerry Logan]

Looks a good call to me Jerry. The plat may be done from the point of when the authors felt was the most significant point of the filming sequence. For example the Nix point on the plat may actually be the point where they felt Nix filmed his most important sequence which was the assassination sequence. Not the first sequence where the limo rounded the corner,.....

Thanks David, that's a good point - but a somewhat expanded version of the plat shows they numbered the Nix sequence with 1 at the motorcade, 2 the assassination sequence and 3 the post assassination frames.

At Nix 1 he'd still have to be filming through the bus to see mid-Elm street.

Best to you,

Jerry

[Robin Unger]

Parking garage on the left, looking back down Houston.

Working backwards, is it possible to line up some of the camera locations (LOS) with the parking garage entrance. ( Altgens, Nix, etc: )

Jerry.

In the image below we can see a man standing in the middle of the intersection next to the car.

when we line up the white road strips on Main & Houston, this appears to me to be very close to where Hughes must have been positioned at the time of the motorcade.

We also see a crowd of people standing on the footpath near the Bronson position, i assume this is approx where nix was standing. ?

Edited February 9, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Martin Hinrichs]

Hi Jerry

Here is just a quick review.

As it looks like in the great Bronson image (thank you Robin) the crowds made a quarter circle

shape in this Main-Houston intersection. The photographers should be there i think.

I place Nix between Altgens and Hughes in this (my) updated position.

What do you think?

Martin