Why do I have to do all of the photo analysis?

[Jerry Logan]

Nix, Hughes and "Altgens 5" all capture virtually the same point of view,

yet none of them is in the images of the others. This seems odd, because,

Nix is standing some 20 feet behind Altgens on the sidewalk. "Altgens" is

in the street in front of Nix, so should appear in the Nix film.

I have been doing vanishing point analyses of the images, to better understand

where "Altgens" should be. Some of you may find this instructive.

Jack

Jack, I think if you check you'll see that Cutler's location for Nix is wrong.

I'm not saying he's in front of Altgens but Nix can't be where Cutler places him.

Jerry

[Chris Scally]

Jerry:

Robin was correct. That is Harkness' motorcycle, with Officer Fox standing beside it. Harkness was standing at the intersection, and here he is, shown in this Hughes frame.

Chris S.

[John Dolva]

Chris is there a frame in that film that shows the badge on his hat?

[Chris Scally]

Chris is there a frame in that film that shows the badge on his hat?

John:

Unfortunately not - he never turned towards the camera. However, this black-and-white frame (I cannot recall offhand from what) shows what I believe is Harkness, in the vicinity of the TSBD shortly afterwards.

Chris.

[John Dolva]

Thank you very much Chris.

(That might help move along the ID'ing of the person walking towards Bell before the segment where Bell is filmng from HDHs office.)

EDIT ADD : Here it is de-interlaced

Edited February 5, 2010 by John Dolva

[Guest Gary Loughran]

A marathon runner would probably average around 11mph

Hi Gary: How would you characterize a man doing 8 MPH? and can you give examples?

Thanks

Hi Ray,

I'm not sure how seriously you're taking this . For my part, I was momentarily annoyed at such a woefully, obviously and simple to prove wrong statement and enough to compel me to reply, against my better judgement.

A brisk walk is 4-5 MPH for most men. A decent jog/run by a keep fit enthusisast could sustain 7-8MPH for a few miles. For a short yard dash I'd imagine anyone capable of running could reach 15-16 mph easily enough.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

A brisk walk is 4-5 MPH for most men. A decent jog/run by a keep fit enthusisast could sustain 7-8MPH for a few miles. For a short yard dash I'd imagine anyone capable of running could reach 15-16 mph easily enough.

Thanks Gary.

I'm not sure how seriously you're taking this

Believe me, my question was DEADLY serious. According to the measurements Luis Alvarez made on the ZFIlm, Greer slowed JFK's limo to 8 MPH during the shooting, so I wanted something to compare that to, and you have compared it to a "jog/run."

Also thanks for reminding me that I need to get more exercise, even if only at 4-5 MPH.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

That cycle is Sgt DV Harkness's 3 wheel cycle, the same one from which the Rowlands could hear the progress of the motorcade over the police radio (see their testimony). I think Harkness is visible in one of the Hughes sequences walking past the camera.

The officer in the dark hat in Hughes next to Harkeness's cycle is B.J. Fox. He is the same officer we see from behind in Bond 4 running toward the scene of the shooting.

Todd,

You're going to spoil everyone's fun if you know all the answers!

Do you recall Harkness's head cover? If any?

Jerry

He was wearing a white policeman's cap, not a helmet but a traditional police-style hat.

With a black visor, correct?

Is he the officer in front of Hughes on several occasions - I think he's wearing a Sgt. patch.

Yes, that's him.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Chris is there a frame in that film that shows the badge on his hat?

John:

Unfortunately not - he never turned towards the camera. However, this black-and-white frame (I cannot recall offhand from what) shows what I believe is Harkness, in the vicinity of the TSBD shortly afterwards.

Chris.

Chris,

That is indeed Harkness and the film is the Cook film. Also at frame left is James Underwood, sans camera, which Sandy Sanderson has at that point.

Todd

[Chris Scally]

Chris,

That is indeed Harkness and the film is the Cook film. Also at frame left is James Underwood, sans camera, which Sandy Sanderson has at that point.

Todd

Thanks, Todd.

[Jerry Logan]

A brisk walk is 4-5 MPH for most men. A decent jog/run by a keep fit enthusisast could sustain 7-8MPH for a few miles. For a short yard dash I'd imagine anyone capable of running could reach 15-16 mph easily enough.

Thanks Gary.

I'm not sure how seriously you're taking this

Believe me, my question was DEADLY serious. According to the measurements Luis Alvarez made on the ZFIlm, Greer slowed JFK's limo to 8 MPH during the shooting, so I wanted something to compare that to, and you have compared it to a "jog/run."

Also thanks for reminding me that I need to get more exercise, even if only at 4-5 MPH.

Hello Mr. Carroll!

The Latest winner of the NYC Marathon finished in 2:09 completing 26 miles, 385 yards. Better than a 12.5 mph average for the course. World's record for the 100 yard dash is about 22.5 mph.

Best to you,

Jerry

Edited February 5, 2010 by Jerry Logan

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Better than a 12.5 mph average for the course.

Thank you Jerry.

About 12 MPH was the limo's speed BEFORE the abrupt slowdown, which reduced speed by 1/3rd, TO ABOUT 8mph.

So Gary & Jerry, would it be fair to say that the limo slowed from RUNNING speed to JOGGING speed?

[Jerry Logan]

Better than a 12.5 mph average for the course.

Thank you Jerry.

About 12 MPH was the limo's speed BEFORE the abrupt slowdown, which reduced speed by 1/3rd, TO ABOUT 8mph.

So Gary & Jerry, would it be fair to say that the limo slowed from RUNNING speed to JOGGING speed?

I believe 6 mph is considered jogging so I'd say it slowed from a brisk to a relaxed run.

[John Dolva]

Raymond has brought this to an interesting point, imo. Obviously there is an error margin involved, but Hill had momentum from Queen when he took off. Perhaps a consideration of this plus the # of frames, in any film, it took him to reach the limo, can in some way say something about the Limo speed?

[Jerry Logan]

To continue with this I've been puzzled by Cutler's location of Nix for the Houston Street scenes.

Per the diagram, If Nix were in Cutler's location he should only be able to see a sliver of the garage entrance past the corner of the Criminal Court Building.

In fact, Nix is able to see close to 3/4s of the garage entrance.

In order to see that much garage Nix has to move north across Main and then, it seems to me, has to move forward to Houston because the crowds lining Houston would block his view from a more western location.

The only other option I see is that Cutler's plat is inaccurate (he got the photographers right but the streets and buildings wrong). Still checking....