Pamela Brown Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regarding Judyth for any special or secret project. Barb :-) Another example of Barb's trying to scarf up a bit of information and present her opinion as 'fact'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Williams Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regardingJudyth for any special or secret project. Barb :-) Another example of Barb's trying to scarf up a bit of information and present her opinion as 'fact'. Which of course is just Pamelas opinion as well. Barb, I commend you. How you manage to continue to even deal with such lunacy is beyond me. I have read many of your writings and have always thought well of your work, but never so much as now. Some people never learn that the first thing to do when one finds oneself in a hole, is quit digging. I must say I am enjoying this beating you are dishing out very much! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Viklund Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regardingJudyth for any special or secret project. Barb :-) Another example of Barb's trying to scarf up a bit of information and present her opinion as 'fact'. Which of course is just Pamelas opinion as well. Barb, I commend you. How you manage to continue to even deal with such lunacy is beyond me. I have read many of your writings and have always thought well of your work, but never so much as now. Some people never learn that the first thing to do when one finds oneself in a hole, is quit digging. I must say I am enjoying this beating you are dishing out very much! Mike Mike Very well said and I certainly agree with you. It is nothing less than amazing that Barb somehow repeatedly finds the energy to argue with these people. Over here we have this old saying "don't throw pearls to the pigs" and I don't think I need to elaborate on this. Barb is doing a fantastic job, real research with actual facts. Again and again, and all she gets back from Judyfetz is demeaning and derogatory BS. No answers, except "bad memory", "nit picking" and the usual, decade old, twisting, turning and bending. Sum it up and there should be no doubts as to what Judyth is all about. Best regards Mike, Glenn Edited April 8, 2010 by Glenn Viklund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Junkkarinen Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 JUDYTH COMMENTS ON BARB'S APPARENT SUPPRESSION OF EVIDENCE Something I posted touch a nerve ... or six? Flailing around like an octopus on the beach doing a "Danger, Will Robinson, danger!" routine doesn't do much for either one of you, in my humble opinion, but at least it has some comic value. Making scurrilous ... not to mention false ... charges in an all caps bolded headline against me ... give me a break. Now pay attention because this is going to be quick. NOTE: This appears to me to be an obvious abuse of position by Junkkareninby not responding in a timely fashion to the request for a translation by Howard Plartzman. 1. Howard did not ask me to "translate" anything. Howard said (and you should know because you typed it): PLEASE ASK BARBARA TO SUMMARIZE HER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PAPER THAT JUDYTH WROTE. And I did that .... in post #964, pg 65. I addressed everything he asked. 2. You replied to me in post#965, thanking me for my response, saying: Thanks for responding. I appreciate it. Would you believe he felt similarly inclined toward you? It must be difficult to imaginel 3. You are no one here's ringmaster. You've got bad data, Fetzer. I have never worked for an Air Force ROTC detachment. A quick google shows that detachment is located in Arizona. It is no secret I live in Oregon. JUDYTH RESPONDS: Barb has ignored Dr. Howard Platzman's invitation to translate the Abstract. He asked her to translate . . . And now too much time has passed, because by now, she could have obtained the services of an oncologist.... Absurd ... and false. I was not asked to "translate" anything. It was also in English.<g> See the quotes I provided to Fetzer above ... and the post #964. But perhaps it isn't too late for her to translate, for all of you, the letter that WRAIR sent me, including an assessment of the value and level of research I was doing, remembering that WRAIR said they were doing 'similar' work on the hypothermia matter. I'm sure she's capable of an instant translation. She's worked in a lab for years. No one can "translate" (or even read, despite it being in English) a letter they cannot see ... because you keep covering up the bottom of page 1 of the letter. Why is that? I cannot imagine why it would need to be "translated." On your further attempts at the MEDEC-ZOA thing ... I posted the info I learned from multiple sources, one being the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research itself ... nothing else to add. People can check the accuracy of the information for themselves if the see the need. I am not interested in your wrangle, tangle, always a new twisted turn game. I understand your methodology just fine ... and it makes me laugh. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Junkkarinen Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 JUDYTH: The National Science Foundation (NSF) There is no shortage of internet posts and pages where claims of Judyth having received a scholarship and grants from the National Science Foundation appear. Sometimes the word "scholarship" is used, sometimes the word "grant." Other sources are named as well ... I deal with them separately. On page 22 of her book, Judyth writes about her finishing the summer program at Roswell Park:: QUOTE ...I received several grants and awards. The summer program finished, I was one of only three students from Roswell Park selected continue research under a National Science Foundation grant supplemented by the National Cancer Institute. [.....] In fact, this assignment would continue to be mine for the next two years, funded by the American Cancer Society, The National Science Foundation, and other agencies via special grants. 59. END QUOTE The "59" goes to a source note that says, on page 650, QUOTE I have a sheaf of documents detailing the apportionment of grants to the University of Florida under which I was funded.... END QUOTE Martin says he has seen ALL of her documentation. He never responded to questions about this "sheaf" or calls to have it added to her "proof" on Anthony Marsh's site. Judyth apparently "quoted" from these papers during a BlackOp radio interview in 2004. One can't help but wonder why they are not amongst all the papers and things she calls her "proof." Also on page 22 of her book, is a newspaper clipping from her local paper, undated and titled "Judy Vary to Continue" ... one that has been discussed and pointed out by Judyth before, it is the one relating how she arrived home from Roswell Park six buses late The article also notes that Judyth would be leaving for her freshman year at St. Francis College in Indiana in a few days, "under a $1300 scholarship from the National Science Foundation." She claims grants, as well as equipment, from other agencies as well, but here I am just dealing with the National Science Foundation. In a post from 8-11-04, Judyth said: QUOTE Note that in the other article, I received the equivalent of $8,400 in today's funds form the National Science Foundation to study what makes cancer more deadly while in college. END QUOTE On the other hand, when confronted with there being no documentation of any of these grants, equipment, etc that she claims, she says it was all funneled to her secretly. Having it announced in the paper is a great way to keep it all secret! Here is a post from Martin after I had received an e-mail from Roswell Park saying that Judyth had not completed the summer program but had been dismissed from it: QUOTE Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk From: "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net> Date: 22 Mar 2008 11:10:02 -0400 Local: Sat, Mar 22 2008 8:10 am Subject: Re: Rosell Park e-mail offer to Martin, now completed Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author How do you explain the fact that when the program ended, she received her National Science Foundation scholarship? I wouldn't think they would go ahead and give that to someone who was "dismissed." Martin END QUOTE So, there is no doubt that there is a claim of Judyth being given scholarship/grant money from the National Science Foundation for her cancer research, not only in 1961 (which is my primary focus here) but also while at the University of Florida which would include 1962 and 1963. And in a reply to me on 10-18-07, Martin said: QUOTE Also, you seem to be confusing the NSF grants. She participated in Roswell under an NSF grant to Roswell. As a result of her work at Roswell, she THEN received an NSF scholarship--these are two separate things, Barb. Martin END QUOTE I am not confused in the least. Judyth, JUST LIKE THE OTHER STUDENTS IN THE SUMMER PROGRAM, was paid a stipend from grant monies RP received from the NSF and other agencies. That is how the program is supported. Students receive a stipend that is essentially their "pay" which they then have to cover their living expenses, incidentals, etc. These were not NSF grants to any individual student for going off to college. That is a whole different thing from Judyth being given a scholarship or grant to continue her cancer research ... on the heels of RP entering St. Francis College in the Fall of 1961 in Indiana, or in 1962/1963 while at the University of Florida, Gainesville. Much could be related about how the National Science Foundation works and funds, and, as they themselves note on their webpage,.... "As described in our strategic plan, NSF is the only federal agency whose mission includes support for all fields of fundamental science and engineering, except for medical sciences. " http://nsf.gov/about/ And how the government partner agency that funds medical research is the National Institutes of Health, and the specific arm of that that funds cancer research is the National Cancer Institute, but there really is no reason to get bogged down there as the following documents tell exactly what institutions, what projects ... and what people received National Science Foundation grants and fellowships in 1961 ...and 1962 ... and 1963. They give no scholarships ... just grants and fellowships. These are the annual reports that detail every penny given out ... to whom and why ... in those 3 years. http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/1961/annualreports/start.htm http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/1962/annualreports/start.htm http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/1963/annualreports/start.htm There is nary a Vary in any of them. Barb :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Byas Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 JUDYTH: The National Science Foundation (NSF)There is no shortage of internet posts and pages where claims of Judyth having received a scholarship and grants from the National Science Foundation appear. Sometimes the word "scholarship" is used, sometimes the word "grant." Other sources are named as well ... I deal with them separately. On page 22 of her book, Judyth writes about her finishing the summer program at Roswell Park:: QUOTE ...I received several grants and awards. The summer program finished, I was one of only three students from Roswell Park selected continue research under a National Science Foundation grant supplemented by the National Cancer Institute. [.....] In fact, this assignment would continue to be mine for the next two years, funded by the American Cancer Society, The National Science Foundation, and other agencies via special grants. 59. END QUOTE The "59" goes to a source note that says, on page 650, QUOTE I have a sheaf of documents detailing the apportionment of grants to the University of Florida under which I was funded.... END QUOTE Martin says he has seen ALL of her documentation. He never responded to questions about this "sheaf" or calls to have it added to her "proof" on Anthony Marsh's site. Judyth apparently "quoted" from these papers during a BlackOp radio interview in 2004. One can't help but wonder why they are not amongst all the papers and things she calls her "proof." Also on page 22 of her book, is a newspaper clipping from her local paper, undated and titled "Judy Vary to Continue" ... one that has been discussed and pointed out by Judyth before, it is the one relating how she arrived home from Roswell Park six buses late The article also notes that Judyth would be leaving for her freshman year at St. Francis College in Indiana in a few days, "under a $1300 scholarship from the National Science Foundation." She claims grants, as well as equipment, from other agencies as well, but here I am just dealing with the National Science Foundation. In a post from 8-11-04, Judyth said: QUOTE Note that in the other article, I received the equivalent of $8,400 in today's funds form the National Science Foundation to study what makes cancer more deadly while in college. END QUOTE On the other hand, when confronted with there being no documentation of any of these grants, equipment, etc that she claims, she says it was all funneled to her secretly. Having it announced in the paper is a great way to keep it all secret! Here is a post from Martin after I had received an e-mail from Roswell Park saying that Judyth had not completed the summer program but had been dismissed from it: QUOTE Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk From: "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net> Date: 22 Mar 2008 11:10:02 -0400 Local: Sat, Mar 22 2008 8:10 am Subject: Re: Rosell Park e-mail offer to Martin, now completed Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author How do you explain the fact that when the program ended, she received her National Science Foundation scholarship? I wouldn't think they would go ahead and give that to someone who was "dismissed." Martin END QUOTE So, there is no doubt that there is a claim of Judyth being given scholarship/grant money from the National Science Foundation for her cancer research, not only in 1961 (which is my primary focus here) but also while at the University of Florida which would include 1962 and 1963. And in a reply to me on 10-18-07, Martin said: QUOTE Also, you seem to be confusing the NSF grants. She participated in Roswell under an NSF grant to Roswell. As a result of her work at Roswell, she THEN received an NSF scholarship--these are two separate things, Barb. Martin END QUOTE I am not confused in the least. Judyth, JUST LIKE THE OTHER STUDENTS IN THE SUMMER PROGRAM, was paid a stipend from grant monies RP received from the NSF and other agencies. That is how the program is supported. Students receive a stipend that is essentially their "pay" which they then have to cover their living expenses, incidentals, etc. These were not NSF grants to any individual student for going off to college. That is a whole different thing from Judyth being given a scholarship or grant to continue her cancer research ... on the heels of RP entering St. Francis College in the Fall of 1961 in Indiana, or in 1962/1963 while at the University of Florida, Gainesville. Much could be related about how the National Science Foundation works and funds, and, as they themselves note on their webpage,.... "As described in our strategic plan, NSF is the only federal agency whose mission includes support for all fields of fundamental science and engineering, except for medical sciences. " http://nsf.gov/about/ And how the government partner agency that funds medical research is the National Institutes of Health, and the specific arm of that that funds cancer research is the National Cancer Institute, but there really is no reason to get bogged down there as the following documents tell exactly what institutions, what projects ... and what people received National Science Foundation grants and fellowships in 1961 ...and 1962 ... and 1963. They give no scholarships ... just grants and fellowships. These are the annual reports that detail every penny given out ... to whom and why ... in those 3 years. http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/1961/annualreports/start.htm http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/1962/annualreports/start.htm http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/1963/annualreports/start.htm There is nary a Vary in any of them. Barb :-) You seem to know more about Judyth than anybody! Are you writing a book? BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) JIM EXTENDS AN APOLOGY TO JUNKKARINEN FOR POSTING "BAD DATA" Barb appears to be complete right insofar as the information I presented about her--which came from her Facebook page--concerned not her but her son. She seized the opportunity to withhold data and cast me in the worst possible light. This appears to clarify and illuminate her tactics in this thread. She practices the same techniques with Judyth, as earlier posts have revealed, not only with regard to Judyth's official files but with respect to explaining reports about her research. This is the right way to go if you want to obfuscate and obscure information, but not if you are diligently in the pursuit of truth--about Judyth, her records, or her accomplishments. Once again, therefore, we find Barbara is running true to form. JUDYTH COMMENTS ON BARB'S APPARENT SUPPRESSION OF EVIDENCE Something I posted touch a nerve ... or six? Flailing around like an octopus on the beach doing a "Danger, Will Robinson, danger!" routine doesn't do much for either one of you, in my humble opinion, but at least it has some comic value. Making scurrilous ... not to mention false ... charges in an all caps bolded headline against me ... give me a break. Now pay attention because this is going to be quick. NOTE: This appears to me to be an obvious abuse of position by Junkkareninby not responding in a timely fashion to the request for a translation by Howard Platzman. 1. Howard did not ask me to "translate" anything. Howard said (and you should know because you typed it): PLEASE ASK BARBARA TO SUMMARIZE HER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PAPER THAT JUDYTH WROTE. And I did that .... in post #964, pg 65. I addressed everything he asked. 2. You replied to me in post#965, thanking me for my response, saying: Thanks for responding. I appreciate it. Would you believe he felt similarly inclined toward you? It must be difficult to imaginel 3. You are no one here's ringmaster. You've got bad data, Fetzer. I have never worked for an Air Force ROTC detachment. A quick google shows that detachment is located in Arizona. It is no secret I live in Oregon. JUDYTH RESPONDS: Barb has ignored Dr. Howard Platzman's invitation to translate the Abstract. He asked her to translate . . . And now too much time has passed, because by now, she could have obtained the services of an oncologist.... Absurd ... and false. I was not asked to "translate" anything. It was also in English.<g> See the quotes I provided to Fetzer above ... and the post #964. But perhaps it isn't too late for her to translate, for all of you, the letter that WRAIR sent me, including an assessment of the value and level of research I was doing, remembering that WRAIR said they were doing 'similar' work on the hypothermia matter. I'm sure she's capable of an instant translation. She's worked in a lab for years. No one can "translate" (or even read, despite it being in English) a letter they cannot see ... because you keep covering up the bottom of page 1 of the letter. Why is that? I cannot imagine why it would need to be "translated." On your further attempts at the MEDEC-ZOA thing ... I posted the info I learned from multiple sources, one being the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research itself ... nothing else to add. People can check the accuracy of the information for themselves if the see the need. I am not interested in your wrangle, tangle, always a new twisted turn game. I understand your methodology just fine ... and it makes me laugh. :-) Edited: Private information about others employment, etc.is not to be published. Edited April 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) JIM REPLIES TO SOME OF THOSE WHO COMMENT HERE THE MOST There appears to be an inverse relationship between negative comments and positive knowledge about Judyth by participants on this forum. Those who are the most negative know the least about her, which includes some who pose as though they were most knowing--where virtually every post is greeted with cheers from those least qualified to judge. Barb has indeed been doing "a fantastic job" if obfuscation is the goal. The one who, in my view, knows the most about all of this is Ed Haslam, who has elaborated on the context indispensable for understanding what was going on in the city at the time, which had more to do with an extraordinary cancer-research project than it did with the personal relationship between Judyth and Lee. I find it unsurprising in the extreme that several of Judyth's most severe critics have been shown to be in collusion with John McAdams, whom no reasonable person dedicated to discovering the truth about the death of JFK would ever consider taking seriously in their wildest dreams. Thus, the fact that they have joined together in attempts to discredit her is, to my mind, indispensable to appreciating their role on this thread. And my occasional misstatements about what they are about are trifles compared to the gross abuse to which they are subjecting Judyth, who has much more to tell us regarding some of the murkiest aspects of assassination research, events which were taking place in New Orleans during 1963. This thread has exposed major problems in the HARVEY & LEE scenario as well as explaining quite a lot about the relationship between Judyth and Lee, who, as Ed Haslam has explained, were collaborating with David Ferrie and Dr. Mary Sherman in a project to develop an anti-cancer-virus cure that became crucial when it was discovered that the polio vaccine being use to inoculate around 100,000,000 children and young adults was contaminated with the SV-40 virus, derived from the incubation of batches for study in the kidneys of Rhesus monkeys. It is a fascinating and remarkable story, which I am only now beginning to piece together. I therefore believe that some criticisms of Judyth have arisen because I myself have been slow to appreciate what was going on and that their relationship appears to have been arranged in order for Lee to assist Judyth with the practical aspects of life in relation to the threats and promises of the New Orleans environment, where many dark secrets and covert activities linked Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Carlos Marcello, and Lee Oswald together in anti-Castro activities, while Judyth was in collaboration with David Ferrie, Mary Sherman, and Alton Ochsner to fix vaccines, a cure for polio that was more dangerous than the disease. For those who want to appreciate what Judyth story is actually all about, let me recommend Ed Haslam's book, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, in which he offers a fascinating exploration of the circumstances that brought Judyth, Lee, Ferrie, Sherman, and Ochsner together in one of the most remarkable covert operations in American medical history. Even simpler, tune in to revereradio.net this Friday from 5-7 PM/CT and listen to Jesse Ventura for the first hour and Ed Haslam the second. You may be as stunned as I to learn how much more was involved in the relationship between Lee and Judyth than has been presented on this very thread, where the personal has overshadowed the scientific. Research on an unexpected problem in the "cure for polio" was the crucial element that we have been missing. MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regarding Judyth for any special or secret project. Barb :-) Another example of Barb's trying to scarf up a bit of information and present her opinion as 'fact'. Which of course is just Pamelas opinion as well. Barb, I commend you. How you manage to continue to even deal with such lunacy is beyond me. I have read many of your writings and have always thought well of your work, but never so much as now. Some people never learn that the first thing to do when one finds oneself in a hole, is quit digging. I must say I am enjoying this beating you are dishing out very much! Mike Mike Very well said and I certainly agree with you. It is nothing less than amazing that Barb somehow repeatedly finds the energy to argue with these people. Over here we have this old saying "don't throw pearls to the pigs" and I don't think I need to elaborate on this. Barb is doing a fantastic job, real research with actual facts. Again and again, and all she gets back from Judyfetz is demeaning and derogatory BS. No answers, except "bad memory", "nit picking" and the usual, decade old, twisting, turning and bending. Sum it up and there should be no doubts as to what Judyth is all about. Best regards Mike, Glenn Edited April 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Jim Fetzer said: I find it unsurprising in the extreme that several of Judyth's most severe critics have been shown to be in collusion with John McAdams, whom no reasonable person dedicated to discovering the truth about the death of JFK would ever consider taking seriously in their wildest dreams. McAdams has been central to the agenda against Judyth for years. He even published a purloined copy of an early version of her book that has a copyright attached to it at his website. When confronted with his unprofessional, not to mention unethical act, he made excuses. When MU was contacted and did nothing he bragged that the provosts never listen to the 'kooks' who criticize him. He has conducted an ongoing campaign against Judyth on aaj, resorting to ad homs and every other sort of fallacy to attempt to get that community riled up against her by trying to convince them that she is a fraud. Barb, of course, is an ex-mod of aaj, longtime buddies with McAdams. The posting 'process' at aaj is that mods and ex-mods can post anything they want without moderation; others cannot. So the posts of anyone who disagrees with their positions can be refused for very flimsy reasons. This creates a slanted field where anyone attempting to correct the slander against Judyth is unable to get their posts through and then they themselves are of course subject to attack on the group. Although I stopped replying directly to most of Barb's posts over three years ago, you will see that she dogs every my post with rumour and innuendo. It is as unrealistic to expect Barb to have any objectivity toward Judyth as it is for McAdams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) JIM REPLIES TO SOME OF THOSE WHO COMMENT HERE THE MOST There appears to be an inverse relationship between negative comments and positive knowledge about Judyth by participants on this forum. Those who are the most negative know the least about her, which includes some who pose as though they were most knowing--where virtually every post is greeted with cheers from those least qualified to judge. Barb has indeed been doing "a fantastic job" if obfuscation is the goal. The one who, in my view, knows the most about all of this is Ed Haslam, who has elaborated on the context indispensable for understanding what was going on in the city at the time, which had more to do with an extraordinary cancer-research project than it did with the personal relationship between Judyth and Lee. I find it unsurprising in the extreme that several of Judyth's most severe critics have been shown to be in collusion with John McAdams, whom no reasonable person dedicated to discovering the truth about the death of JFK would ever consider taking seriously in their wildest dreams. Thus, the fact that they have joined together in attempts to discredit her is, to my mind, indispensable to appreciating their role on this thread. And my occasional misstatements about what they are about are trifles compared to the gross abuse to which they are subjecting Judyth, who has much more to tell us regarding some of the murkiest aspects of assassination research, events which were taking place in New Orleans during 1963. This thread has exposed major problems in the HARVEY & LEE scenario as well as explaining quite a lot about the relationship between Judyth and Lee, who, as Ed Haslam has explained, were collaborating with David Ferrie and Dr. Mary Sherman in a project to develop an anti-cancer-virus cure that became crucial when it was discovered that the polio vaccine being use to inoculate around 100,000,000 children and young adults was contaminated with the SV-40 virus, derived from the incubation of batches for study in the kidneys of Rhesus monkeys. It is a fascinating and remarkable story, which I am only now beginning to piece together. I therefore believe that some criticisms of Judyth have arisen because I myself have been slow to appreciate what was going on and that their relationship appears to have been arranged in order for Lee to assist Judyth with the practical aspects of life in relation to the threats and promises of the New Orleans environment, where many dark secrets and covert activities linked Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Carlos Marcello, and Lee Oswald together in anti-Castro activities, while Judyth was in collaboration with David Ferrie, Mary Sherman, and Alton Ochsner to fix vaccines, a cure for polio that was more dangerous than the disease. For those who want to appreciate what Judyth story is actually all about, let me recommend Ed Haslam's book, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, in which he offers a fascinating exploration of the circumstances that brought Judyth, Lee, Ferrie, Sherman, and Ochsner together in one of the most remarkable covert operations in American medical history. Even simpler, tune in to revereradio.net this Friday from 5-7 PM/CT and listen to Jesse Ventura for the first hour and Ed Haslam the second. You may be as stunned as I to learn how much more was involved in the relationship between Lee and Judyth than has been presented on this very thread, where the personal has overshadowed the scientific. Research on an unexpected problem in the "cure for polio" was the crucial element that we have been missing. MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regarding Judyth for any special or secret project. Barb :-) Another example of Barb's trying to scarf up a bit of information and present her opinion as 'fact'. Which of course is just Pamelas opinion as well. Barb, I commend you. How you manage to continue to even deal with such lunacy is beyond me. I have read many of your writings and have always thought well of your work, but never so much as now. Some people never learn that the first thing to do when one finds oneself in a hole, is quit digging. I must say I am enjoying this beating you are dishing out very much! Mike Mike Very well said and I certainly agree with you. It is nothing less than amazing that Barb somehow repeatedly finds the energy to argue with these people. Over here we have this old saying "don't throw pearls to the pigs" and I don't think I need to elaborate on this. Barb is doing a fantastic job, real research with actual facts. Again and again, and all she gets back from Judyfetz is demeaning and derogatory BS. No answers, except "bad memory", "nit picking" and the usual, decade old, twisting, turning and bending. Sum it up and there should be no doubts as to what Judyth is all about. Best regards Mike, Glenn Edited April 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) JUDYTH REPLIES WITH A CORRECTION TO JIM'S SUMMARY HISTORY ALTHOUGH THE PROJECT BEGAN WITH TRYING TO FIND A CURE FOR THE CONTAMINATED POLIO VACCINE, BY THE TIME I JOINED, A PORTION OF THE PROJECT BY THEN ALREADY HAD DISCOVERED A DEADLY CANCER. OCHSNER REALIZED THAT EVEN HE HAD BEEN DUPED BY SCIENCE INTO BELIEVING HIS GRANDCHILDREN WOULD BE SAFE FROM THE VACCINE. HE LOST HIS GRANDSON. THIS CAUSED HIM TO REALIZE, WHEN HE OBSERVED THAT A DEADLY CANCER HAD BEEN DISCOVERED WHILE WORKING ON FINDING A CURE FOR THE CONTAMINATED POLIO VIRUS MATTER, THAT HE HAD A BIOWEAPON AT HAND. AFTER ALL, WHAT DOCTOR WOULD THINK A CANCER DEVELOPING IN SOMEBODY WAS ANYTHING BUT NATURAL? OCHSNER WAS RABIDLY ANTI-COMMUNIST AND ANTI-CASTRO, HAD FOUNDED INCA AND NOW HE HAD A WAY TO GET CASTRO, THROUGH HIS OLD MEDICAL CONTACTS IN CUBA. BY THE TIME I ARRIVED, THE PROJECT CONCERNED ONLY BIOWEAPON DEVELOPMENT. IT SOON GOT OUT OF OCHSNER'S HANDS. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE HERE DO NOT COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE WERE STILL TRYING, AT THIS TIME, TO SOLVE THE CONTANIMATED POLIO VACCINE PROBLEM. IN FACT, CONTANIMATED VACCINES CONTINUED TO BE MANUFACTURED AND SENT TO UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE UNTIL THE 1990s. JVB JIM REPLIES TO SOME OF THOSE WHO COMMENT HERE THE MOSTThere appears to be an inverse relationship between negative comments and positive knowledge about Judyth by participants on this forum. Those who are the most negative know the least about her, which includes some who pose as though they were most knowing--where virtually every post is greeted with cheers from those least qualified to judge. Barb has indeed been doing "a fantastic job" if obfuscation is the goal. The one who, in my view, knows the most about all of this is Ed Haslam, who has elaborated on the context indispensable for understanding what was going on in the city at the time, which had more to do with an extraordinary cancer-research project than it did with the personal relationship between Judyth and Lee. I find it unsurprising in the extreme that several of Judyth's most severe critics have been shown to be in collusion with John McAdams, whom no reasonable person dedicated to discovering the truth about the death of JFK would ever consider taking seriously in their wildest dreams. Thus, the fact that they have joined together in attempts to discredit her is, to my mind, indispensable to appreciating their role on this thread. And my occasional misstatements about what they are about are trifles compared to the gross abuse to which they are subjecting Judyth, who has much more to tell us regarding some of the murkiest aspects of assassination research, events which were taking place in New Orleans during 1963. This thread has exposed major problems in the HARVEY & LEE scenario as well as explaining quite a lot about the relationship between Judyth and Lee, who, as Ed Haslam has explained, were collaborating with David Ferrie and Dr. Mary Sherman in a project to develop an anti-cancer-virus cure that became crucial when it was discovered that the polio vaccine being use to inoculate around 100,000,000 children and young adults was contaminated with the SV-40 virus, derived from the incubation of batches for study in the kidneys of Rhesus monkeys. It is a fascinating and remarkable story, which I am only now beginning to piece together. I therefore believe that some criticisms of Judyth have arisen because I myself have been slow to appreciate what was going on and that their relationship appears to have been arranged in order for Lee to assist Judyth with the practical aspects of life in relation to the threats and promises of the New Orleans environment, where many dark secrets and covert activities linked Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Carlos Marcello, and Lee Oswald together in anti-Castro activities, while Judyth was in collaboration with David Ferrie, Mary Sherman, and Alton Ochsner to fix vaccines, a cure for polio that was more dangerous than the disease. For those who want to appreciate what Judyth story is actually all about, let me recommend Ed Haslam's book, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, in which he offers a fascinating exploration of the circumstances that brought Judyth, Lee, Ferrie, Sherman, and Ochsner together in one of the most remarkable covert operations in American medical history. Even simpler, tune in to revereradio.net this Friday from 5-7 PM/CT and listen to Jesse Ventura for the first hour and Ed Haslam the second. You may be as stunned as I to learn how much more was involved in the relationship between Lee and Judyth than has been presented on this very thread, where the personal has overshadowed the scientific. Research on an unexpected problem in the "cure for polio" was the crucial element that we have been missing. MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regarding Judyth for any special or secret project. Barb :-) Another example of Barb's trying to scarf up a bit of information and present her opinion as 'fact'. Which of course is just Pamelas opinion as well. Barb, I commend you. How you manage to continue to even deal with such lunacy is beyond me. I have read many of your writings and have always thought well of your work, but never so much as now. Some people never learn that the first thing to do when one finds oneself in a hole, is quit digging. I must say I am enjoying this beating you are dishing out very much! Mike Mike Very well said and I certainly agree with you. It is nothing less than amazing that Barb somehow repeatedly finds the energy to argue with these people. Over here we have this old saying "don't throw pearls to the pigs" and I don't think I need to elaborate on this. Barb is doing a fantastic job, real research with actual facts. Again and again, and all she gets back from Judyfetz is demeaning and derogatory BS. No answers, except "bad memory", "nit picking" and the usual, decade old, twisting, turning and bending. Sum it up and there should be no doubts as to what Judyth is all about. Best regards Mike, Glenn Edited April 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) JUDYTH REPLIES WITH A CORRECTION TO JIM'S SUMMARY HISTORY ALTHOUGH THE PROJECT BEGAN WITH TRYING TO FIND A CURE FOR THE CONTAMINATED POLIO VACCINE, BY THE TIME I JOINED, A PORTION OF THE PROJECT BY THEN ALREADY HAD DISCOVERED A DEADLY CANCER. OCHSNER REALIZED THAT EVEN HE HAD BEEN DUPED BY SCIENCE INTO BELIEVING HIS GRANDCHILDREN WOULD BE SAFE FROM THE VACCINE. HE LOST HIS GRANDSON. THIS CAUSED HIM TO REALIZE, WHEN HE OBSERVED THAT A DEADLY CANCER HAD BEEN DISCOVERED WHILE WORKING ON FINDING A CURE FOR THE CONTAMINATED POLIO VIRUS MATTER, THAT HE HAD A BIOWEAPON AT HAND. AFTER ALL, WHAT DOCTOR WOULD THINK A CANCER DEVELOPING IN SOMEBODY WAS ANYTHING BUT NATURAL? OCHSNER WAS RABIDLY ANTI-COMMUNIST AND ANTI-CASTRO, HAD FOUNDED INCA AND NOW HE HAD A WAY TO GET CASTRO, THROUGH HIS OLD MEDICAL CONTACTS IN CUBA. BY THE TIME I ARRIVED, THE PROJECT CONCERNED ONLY BIOWEAPON DEVELOPMENT. IT SOON GOT OUT OF OCHSNER'S HANDS. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE HERE DO NOT COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE WERE STILL TRYING, AT THIS TIME, TO SOLVE THE CONTANIMATED POLIO VACCINE PROBLEM. IN FACT, CONTANIMATED VACCINES CONTINUED TO BE MANUFACTURED AND SENT TO UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE UNTIL THE 1990s. JVB JIM REPLIES TO SOME OF THOSE WHO COMMENT HERE THE MOSTThere appears to be an inverse relationship between negative comments and positive knowledge about Judyth by participants on this forum. Those who are the most negative know the least about her, which includes some who pose as though they were most knowing--where virtually every post is greeted with cheers from those least qualified to judge. Barb has indeed been doing "a fantastic job" if obfuscation is the goal. The one who, in my view, knows the most about all of this is Ed Haslam, who has elaborated on the context indispensable for understanding what was going on in the city at the time, which had more to do with an extraordinary cancer-research project than it did with the personal relationship between Judyth and Lee. I find it unsurprising in the extreme that several of Judyth's most severe critics have been shown to be in collusion with John McAdams, whom no reasonable person dedicated to discovering the truth about the death of JFK would ever consider taking seriously in their wildest dreams. Thus, the fact that they have joined together in attempts to discredit her is, to my mind, indispensable to appreciating their role on this thread. And my occasional misstatements about what they are about are trifles compared to the gross abuse to which they are subjecting Judyth, who has much more to tell us regarding some of the murkiest aspects of assassination research, events which were taking place in New Orleans during 1963. This thread has exposed major problems in the HARVEY & LEE scenario as well as explaining quite a lot about the relationship between Judyth and Lee, who, as Ed Haslam has explained, were collaborating with David Ferrie and Dr. Mary Sherman in a project to develop an anti-cancer-virus cure that became crucial when it was discovered that the polio vaccine being use to inoculate around 100,000,000 children and young adults was contaminated with the SV-40 virus, derived from the incubation of batches for study in the kidneys of Rhesus monkeys. It is a fascinating and remarkable story, which I am only now beginning to piece together. I therefore believe that some criticisms of Judyth have arisen because I myself have been slow to appreciate what was going on and that their relationship appears to have been arranged in order for Lee to assist Judyth with the practical aspects of life in relation to the threats and promises of the New Orleans environment, where many dark secrets and covert activities linked Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Carlos Marcello, and Lee Oswald together in anti-Castro activities, while Judyth was in collaboration with David Ferrie, Mary Sherman, and Alton Ochsner to fix vaccines, a cure for polio that was more dangerous than the disease. For those who want to appreciate what Judyth story is actually all about, let me recommend Ed Haslam's book, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, in which he offers a fascinating exploration of the circumstances that brought Judyth, Lee, Ferrie, Sherman, and Oechner together in one of the most remarkable covert operations in American medical history. Even simpler, tune in to revereradio.net this Friday from 5-7 PM/CT and listen to Jesse Ventura for the first hour and Ed Haslam the second. You may be as stunned as I to learn how much more was involved in the relationship between Lee and Judyth than has been presented on this very thread, where the personal has overshadowed the scientific. Research on an unexpected problem in the "cure for polio" was the crucial element that we have been missing. MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regarding Judyth for any special or secret project. Barb :-) Another example of Barb's trying to scarf up a bit of information and present her opinion as 'fact'. Which of course is just Pamelas opinion as well. Barb, I commend you. How you manage to continue to even deal with such lunacy is beyond me. I have read many of your writings and have always thought well of your work, but never so much as now. Some people never learn that the first thing to do when one finds oneself in a hole, is quit digging. I must say I am enjoying this beating you are dishing out very much! Mike Mike Very well said and I certainly agree with you. It is nothing less than amazing that Barb somehow repeatedly finds the energy to argue with these people. Over here we have this old saying "don't throw pearls to the pigs" and I don't think I need to elaborate on this. Barb is doing a fantastic job, real research with actual facts. Again and again, and all she gets back from Judyfetz is demeaning and derogatory BS. No answers, except "bad memory", "nit picking" and the usual, decade old, twisting, turning and bending. Sum it up and there should be no doubts as to what Judyth is all about. Best regards Mike, Glenn Edited April 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah Thompson Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 BIZARRE DELETION OF MY POST #1013 WITH NO NOTIFICATIONSo yesterday I had a nice post pointing out that Barb is practicing the suppression of evidence. I included data linked to her Facebook page, which turns out to be about her son, not about her. She not only does not explain the simple mistake that had been made but suggests that I have been trading in "bad data", when she could have simply explained it. Now I discover that, not only has her son's data been removed from his Facebook page but my post, instead of being edited as I have done below using xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx was itself complete removed! This is a rather outrageous and arbitrary action. Surely a participant ought to be informed when they have something wrong. This is unconscionable.... Over the last few weeks only Barb Junkkarinen has had the patience to virtually single-handedly take apart the evermore complex posturing of JudythFetzer. Unable to reply with sensible arguments, Fetzer (true to form) starts trolling the Internet. Intent on finding something with which to slime Barb, Fetzer starts looking into Barb's employment. He comes up with the totally wrong fact that Barb worked for ROTC in Arizona while she lived in Oregon. Only much later does our hero tumble to the fact that Barb's son.... not Barb... was in ROTC. And then the final idiocy.. HE BLAMES BARB FOR HIS GUTTERBALL MISTAKE! You just can't play fair... can you, Professor?! Josiah Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 OSWALD VERSUS NORTON : HANDWRITING COMPARISON Judyth Vary Baker ANALYSIS: 1) Lee writes "O"s beginning with an inside stroke, not an outside stroke. 2) When signatures are at the same size, as in the samples (but not below he samples), Norton’s non-cap letters are significantly shorter than Oswald’s. Oswald almost never ended any of his words with flattened out letters, as in the Norton signature on "Norton". Nor is the "N" similar o any of the "N"s that Oswald wrote: Oswald’s "N" is smaller than the capital "O"—the very opposite of the Norton signature’s "N" and "O" relationship. A second example of a capital "N": Oswald’s printed "N"s are also radically different from Norton’s. 3) The "O" in Norton’s signature is much rounder than in the Oswald signature. 4) The slant is the same in both Oswald’s and Norton’s: this is the greatest resemblance, but of itself, is not enough to make a determination. 5) Norton makes his "D" slant backward for "Donald" but Oswald never wrote any capital "D"s backward. Further, none of Lee H. Oswald’s "D"s resemble the "D" in basis: 6) Lee Oswald ends to write his small ‘n’s differently from Norton and the arch of the n often slants backward, whole others have a sharpness, as in Norton’s example, but the stem on the right of Oswald’s "n"s almost never make a sharp "v" shape as in Norton’s signature: they are rounded, as the top of a heart would be. 7) And finally, the amount of absolute SPACE between words in the signatures are different: Oswald puts more space between first name, initial and last name in both instances shown compared to Norton’s more squashed-up signature. Conclusion: Donald Norton’s handwriting indicates that he did not write anything attributed to Lee H. Oswald and is not a candidate for “Lee” in regard to the handwriting samples shown above, as offered by Jack White in his proposition that Norton’s handwriting resembles Oswald’s. In short, Norton’s handwriting, insofar as his signature is concerned, does not resemble Oswald’s except in the most superficial and superfluous respects. JVB I am starting this new thread which I hope will be limited to a single subject....which Jim/Judyth have suggested: "THE ERRORS OF JOHN ARMSTRONG." Both have the book Harvey & Lee. I ask that if they wish to address these "errors" that they do so in this thread, and with the following limitations: John has "retired" from JFK research and DOES NOT WANT ANY PART OF INTERNET DEBATES. He has said everything that he intends to say IN HIS BOOK. He stands behind everything in his book, as do I. I will attempt to answer any legitimate questions about alleged "errors". But one at a time, please. This doesn't fit your criteria -- or maybe it does. John Armstrong is the cause of my long-held frustration regarding Donald O. Norton, who is supposed to be Lee Oswald. It isn't fair. If there is something to it, Jack, please tell me. You know Armstrong. Kathy C Based on John's six-month investigation of Norton, I believe Norton is the original LEE Oswald. Here is a comparison of LEE and NORTON signatures. I believe the characters show great similarity. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Viklund Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) BIZARRE DELETION OF MY POST #1013 WITH NO NOTIFICATIONSo yesterday I had a nice post pointing out that Barb is practicing the suppression of evidence. I included data linked to her Facebook page, which turns out to be about her son, not about her. She not only does not explain the simple mistake that had been made but suggests that I have been trading in "bad data", when she could have simply explained it. Now I discover that, not only has her son's data been removed from his Facebook page but my post, instead of being edited as I have done below using xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx was itself complete removed! This is a rather outrageous and arbitrary action. Surely a participant ought to be informed when they have something wrong. This is unconscionable.... Over the last few weeks only Barb Junkkarinen has had the patience to virtually single-handedly take apart the evermore complex posturing of JudythFetzer. Unable to reply with sensible arguments, Fetzer (true to form) starts trolling the Internet. Intent on finding something with which to slime Barb, Fetzer starts looking into Barb's employment. He comes up with the totally wrong fact that Barb worked for ROTC in Arizona while she lived in Oregon. Only much later does our hero tumble to the fact that Barb's son.... not Barb... was in ROTC. And then the final idiocy.. HE BLAMES BARB FOR HIS GUTTERBALL MISTAKE! You just can't play fair... can you, Professor?! Josiah Thompson Mr Thompson, You are spot on, once again. One of the arguments they came up with towards myself - after scanning the Internet - early on in this discussion, was that I'd "spent years in Armenia"; where "it's not exactly a computer frenzy". Therefore, my facts could not hold water. Apart from the fact that I've never set foot in Armenia in my life, it is truly amazing watching a professor time and again lend himself to activities of this caliber. It is far below any standards, not to even begin mention academic rules of conduct. GV Edited April 8, 2010 by Glenn Viklund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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