Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Here is an article I wrote on one issue that emerged rather glaringly ... about a letter Judyth claims she was told to write after signing loyalty oaths while at a science fair in Indianapolis in May 1960.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Judyth vs. History

High school junior conscripted by intelligence officials while attending a national science fair? How does this claim fare when it bumps up against historical fact?

In her book, LEE HARVEY OSWALD: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy By His Lover, Judyth Vary Baker writes in painstaking detail her experiences at the 11th Annual National Science and Engineering Fair held in Indianapolis in May 1960.1 These experiences are the crux of her claim about being recruited into the cloak and dagger world of underground cancer research to develop a bioweapon to kill Castro, “a project sponsored by people connected to the CIA.”2

Baker notes that while her project at that fair was in the physical science division (Magnesium From the Sea), her cancer research became known while there because she was able to chat with news reporters, scientists and the like who were swarming around the project of a young man whose project was displayed just across the aisle from hers. She relates that his “conversation, by his own admission, was that of a liberal leftist, while my chatter was that of a patriot who was studying Russian in order to peek into Soviet cancer research journals. Thus, I began receiving the attention of the conservative reporters, military officers and scientists who had originally come to interview” the other student.3

Baker goes on to relate how she was then the subject of “an intellectual feeding frenzy”4 and ultimately was singled out and whisked away to meet with military officers, scientists and doctors where she answered questions about her patriotism. Baker says she then “signed a loyalty oath – as well as a couple of papers about promising to always be loyal to my country in my scientific endeavors – in what seemed to be a recording studio or soundproof room at Eli Lilly, I was asked to write to President John F. Kennedy, offering my services to my country. I was not aware until later that one or more of the people I was talking to represented the CIA.”5 She says she was told that doing these things would bring her more support for her cancer research, and that she was also asked to write to the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research.

So, what’s the problem here?

There was no President John F. Kennedy in May of 1960. Could she have the dates and fairs mixed up … and all this really happened at what her supporter has called a cancer seminar in the Spring of 1961?

In May of 1960, JFK was not even yet the official democratic nominee, but of course, we do know he became the nominee that July and was elected President in November.

One of Judyth’s most devoted supporters addressed this problem on the Internet newsgroup alt.assassination.jfk by saying first that it was a typo, then that she had the years mixed up, that it happened at a cancer seminar in the Spring of 1961; he suggested that after all these decades she should be cut some slack for not remembering every detail nor the order of things. He noted that since her project at the Indiana fair, in May 1960, had nothing to do with cancer, there wouldn’t have been any reason for anyone to know about, or be interested in, her cancer research at that time. And it was also noted that it had to have been 1961 when all this happened because she had a response from the White House to the letter she wrote to President Kennedy and it was dated 1961.

Unfortunately, these explanations don’t work for Judyth.

Judyth herself explains in her book how it is that despite her project at that 1960 science fair being on magnesium in sea water, her cancer research made her the center of attention by reporters, military officers, doctors, scientists and even a couple of what she later learned were CIA people because she was able to talk to reporters and, as previously quoted, her “chatter” was that of a patriot who was learning Russian so she could read Russian cancer research journals. She also names locations like Indiana State University and Eli Lilly.

Could she have the dates and fairs mixed up … and all this really happened at what her supporter has called a cancer seminar in the Spring of 1961?

No. And here’s why.

Part of her claim about the events at the 1960 science fair was that she was also told to write to Walter Reed Army Hospital. And while there is no copy of the letter she wrote to Walter Reed in her book, there is a copy of the response she received from a Dr. Jacobus at Walter Reed … and it is dated September 2, 1960. That does not fit with her being confused about the year and location and it all, instead, having happened at a cancer seminar in Florida the Spring of 1961.

That “cancer seminar” the following Spring was not a science fair. No high school students with projects. It was a science writer’s seminar. On page 8 of her book is a newspaper photo of Judyth bearing the date February 3, 1961. The caption notes that Judyth has just been honored in the Westinghouse Science Talent Search. Overlapping the edges of that newspaper photo/caption is a newspaper article titled, “Senior Attends National Meet With Scientists.” That article carries no date, but its placement overlapping the edges of the picture rather makes it appear as though it belongs to the photo in the newspaper dated February 3, 1961. It does not. The article relates how Judyth had recently attended the National Cancer Society Seminar for 1961. That “cancer seminar” was held in St. Petersburg on March 18, 1961.6

That date is important.

Another of Judyth’s claims was that she was told to write to President Kennedy. Could it be that she got that instruction at this cancer seminar in Florida in 1961 instead of while at the Indiana science fair in May 1960?

No.

Because, as noted above, the cancer seminar in Florida was held, March 18, 1961. And we now know that Judyth wrote to President Kennedy before that date.

She does have a letter of response from the White House dated May 20, 1961. It’s a generic response from a staffer named Dungan. As far as I have seen, that letter does not appear anywhere in her book.

Also missing from her book is the letter she wrote to President Kennedy. People asked, and were told Judyth did not have a copy of the letter. Thanks to Anthony Marsh, who went to the JFK Library in Boston looking for the letter … we now have it.

The letter looks like a typical teenage fan letter to JFK.

A response from the White House in May 1961 could fit with her not having written to JFK until after the Florida cancer seminar in March of 1961. Could Judyth perhaps have mixed up the events she related as occurring a year earlier?

No. Because the letter she wrote to President Kennedy was written before the cancer seminar where Judyth’s supporter suggests this loyalty oath and so on took place instead of in May 1960.

The letter was written on February 14, 1961. That is over a month before the March 18th cancer seminar.

Why these nefarious characters would want her to write a letter to the White House in the first place is rather a mystery.

In short:

Judyth claims she was singled out, whisked away, met with scientists, doctors, military officers and a couple people from the CIA, signed a loyalty oath and was told to write to both President Kennedy and Walter Reed Institute … all while at the National Science and Engineering Fair in Indianapolis, May 1960.

That cannot be because there was no President Kennedy in May 1960.

Judyth cannot have the dates/events mixed up where she claims all this occurred because she has a response letter from Walter Read dated September 2, 1960 (6 months before the “cancer seminar” the following Spring). And because . . .

all the goings on she relates happening in Indianapolis cannot possibly have happened at a cancer seminar in Florida in March 1961 as it was not a science fair where she would have been interacting with other students or be taken to places like Indiana State University or Eli Lilly. And because . . .

the date on the letter she did write to President Kennedy is dated February 14, 1961 … over a month before the “cancer seminar” in St, Petersburg on March 18, 1961.

Whoever coined the phrase, “The devil is in the details” knew of what he spoke. This time the detail that devils her claim is American History. John F. Kennedy, 35th President of the United States, was elected 6 months after Judyth Vary Baker claims she was told to write to him.

Sources:

What follows are page numbers for specific quotes used. This article is based on the information Judyth relates in, LEE HARVEY OSWALD The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John. F. Kennedy By His Lover, Judyth Vary Baker, Volume 1, pp. 3 – 8, except where otherwise sourced.

1 The science fair is now sponsored by Intel; we know Judyth was at the 11th annual fair because her book, on page 7, includes a photo of a program of tours available to the science fair participants, and in its header it says “11th.” As the science fair link notes, the fair was started in 1950 … making 1960 the 11th annual.

2 LEE HARVEY OSWALD The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John. F. Kennedy By His Lover, Judyth Vary Baker, Volume 1, p.10

3 Ibid., pp. 3 – 4

4 Ibid., p. 4

5 Ibid., p. 5

6 See: http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/11/3/113.pdf and scroll to bottom of page; note Dr. Moore of Roswell Park was one scheduled to speak.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS ABOUT HER LETTER TO THE PRESIDENT (MORE TO COME)

NOTE: If I were in Barb's position--having been clobbered by three important posts,

which illustrate the incoherence of HARVEY & LEE and Judyth's detailed knowledge of

Lee Oswald's activities on days when John Armstrong admits he has no idea what Lee

was doing--I would try to find something distracting. It could be old stuff, like this one,

but still useful if you want to create the appearance of having something (even call it

"glaring") and hope that no one will notice its triviality in comparison to the posts that

have just preceded it. I have quite a lot from Judyth about this kind of stuff, which I

have not yet posted. Just notice the importance of the three that have gone before.

JUDYTH REPLIES:

I was asked in 1960 to write a letter 'to President Kennedy'—that's what it says in an

unauthorized book that I did not get a chance to do a final correction on. It had even

been repeated from an earlier book. I take responsibility for the "President Kennedy'

part. What happened is that I was asked to write a letter to THE PRESIDENT by some

military officers and others. They said it was necessary, for some reason. I forgot to

write the letter until early in 1961, when, looking over loose ends, my mentor, Col.

Doyle, realized I had never written the letter. I wrote it and got a nice reply from JFK's

personal assistant, Ralph Dungan. The letter has some underlinings in it, and was found

in archives by researcher Tony Marsh. Enclosures included Peace Corps materials and

other materials. So decades later, I said I'd been asked to write 'to President Kennedy'

in 1960—and several 'researchers' jumped all over me for it. For the most part, I've

done a prety good job remembering details, but we're all human, and there may be

another error here and there. Just for fun, try to remember what important letters

YOU wrote decades ago!

[q]

Here is an article I wrote on one issue that emerged rather glaringly ... about a letter

Judyth claims she was told to write after signing loyalty oaths while at a science fair in

Indianapolis in May 1960.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Judyth vs. History

High school junior conscripted by intelligence officials while attending a

national science fair? How does this claim fare when it bumps up against

historical fact?

In her book, LEE HARVEY OSWALD: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of

President John F. Kennedy By His Lover, Judyth Vary Baker writes in painstaking

detail her experiences at the 11th Annual National Science and Engineering Fair

held in Indianapolis in May 1960.1 These experiences are the crux of her claim

about being recruited into the cloak and dagger world of underground cancer

research to develop a bioweapon to kill Castro, “a project sponsored by people

connected to the CIA.”2[/q]

Edited April 6, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH OFFERS MORE OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THE EVIDENCE FOR "HARVEY & LEE"

NOTE: In an astute email to Judyth, Pamela observes that Armstrong begins and ends

with the thesis that there were two LHO's, rather than objectively examining evidence

and then allowing readers to weigh and evaluate. That is circular reasoning, and it

complicates any discussion, especially something as complex as this. She is right, of

course, as we are in the process of discovering. Here is more about his "evidence".

JUDYTH REPLIES:

JIM: Notice that Armstrong ONLY refers to the alleged "Oswalds" as "HARVEY" and

"LEE", so be sure you bear that in mind in discussing his work.

JUDYTH: ==yes==

JIM: It is an interesting psychological ploy to induce a presumption that there

ACTUALLY WERE two of them, which our new discoveries seriously undermine.

JUDYTH: ==And it's the same-old, same-old that Lifton uses. Repeat something over and

over and the reader, after a hundred pages, believes it. I might add, repeat ANYTHING

often enough and SOMEBODY will adhere to it.==

JIM: I want to nail down this "missing tooth" fiasco by Armstrong, where he has Lillian

Murret paying for "MARGUERITE" to take LEE to the dentist, when she was HARVEY'S

AUNT, yet according to Armstrong, HARVEY HAD ALREADY MOVED AWAY. This is a

colossal blunder that undermines the integrity of his whole story.

JUDYTH: ==Lillian Murret gives us a clear picture that her sister returned with the same

"Lee" she -- Lillian -- had always known and also loved.==

On page 123 of Vol. VIII, Lillian Murret tells us that her sister, Marguerite, came to New

Orleans with Lee from New York and lived for 2 or 3 weeks with the Murrets.

Mrs. Murret.

Well, that must have been 2 weeks, 3 weeks. She was looking for a place to stay, and Robert

was coming out of the service, and so that's when she found this place over on Exchange Alley

before Robert came in, and she met Robert at my house, and they went right over to the

apartment at Exchange Alley that she had found, but Robert left. He wouldn't stay in New Orleans.

<snip>

Mr. Jenner.

What was Lee doing during that time?

Mrs. Murret.

He was going to school.

Mr. Jenner.

When they came back from New York and stopped at your home and lived with you temporarily,

did he go to school?

Mrs. Murret.

Yes; he did. That's when she enrolled him at Beauregard Junior High.

Jenner reminded Mrs. Murret that Marguerite and Lee had at first lived elsewhere before finding the

apartment at Exchange Place, and it becomes clear that the arrival of Robert from the service is

linked to Lillian's memory about Exchange Alley: Robert didn't like it there and moved to Texas,

which he considered his home territory.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, tell me about Lee Harvey Oswald during the couple of weeks that he spent at your house.

Did you notice any change in him from the time you had known him previously? He would now have

been about 3 years older; isn't that right?

Mrs. Murret.

Yes, sir; like I said, they had just come from New York, and she had told me about him not

wanting to go to school, but she enrolled him over at Beauregard School, which wasn't too far from

my home. It's a school ...

pg. 124

Mrs. Murret.

....on Canal Street, and it's just a few blocks after you get off of the bus from Lakeview, so she

enrolled him there, and she gave him my address for the school, and I think, or I'm quite sure, that

while he was there he was having trouble with some of the boys at the school.

Lillian then describes the problems Lee H. Oswald had at school, and she mentions that he's called

"Lee." she says he didn't start trouble, others did. Here we see the pasaage that Armstrong says

shows the person is "Harvey" -- called a "Yankee" and sitting in the back of the bus.

Within this passage (underlined) we see that Lillian gave Marguerite money to take Lee to the dentist.

In her version, the tooth did not get knocked out, but this may be a separate incident:

Mrs. Murret.

Well, I can only tell you what I was told. I don't know anything myself that happened, but I can

tell you what he told me, or what he told her of what happened. He said that they were calling him

"Yankee," and so forth, names like that, and this one time he got into the bus and he sat in a seat

in the Negro section, which he didn't know, because he had come from New York, and he didn't

know that they sat in special seats, so he just got on the bus and sat down where he could.'

==Armstrong makes an error at this point, saying that the "New York" "Harvey" just didn't know

about the segregated buses, as "Lee" -- raised in the "south" -- would. But he's wrong. Lee had lived

in Texas, prior to moving to New York, and while there were some segregation issues there, the Ft.

Worth area did not have a significant "black" population, as did New Orleans, but, rather, a Hispanic

population of concern. ==

"The bus stopped in front of the school, and you can hardly get a seat anyway, so he just ran to the

bus and jumped on and got a seat, like I said, in the Negro section, and the boys jumped him at the

end of the line. They jumped on him, and he took on all of them, and of course they beat him up,

and so he came home, and that was the end of that. He didn't say anything to me about that.

"Another time they were coming out of school at 3 o'clock, and there were boys in back of him and

one of them called his name, and he said, "Lee," and when he turned around, this boy punched him

in the mouth and ran, and it ran his tooth through the lip, so she had to go over to the school and

take him to the dentist, and I paid for the dentist bill myself, and that's all I know about that, and

he was not supposed to have started any of that at that time."

"Now, at the Beauregard School at that time, they had a very low standard, and I had no children

going there and never did. My children went to Jesuit High and Loyola University, but they did have

a very bad bunch of boys going to Beauregard and they were always having fights and ganging up

on other boys, and I guess Lee wouldn't take anything, so he got in several scrapes like that."

==We do not even have to go that far into it, folks.

When LEE returns to New Orleans, he is supposed to be "Harvey." Yet his aunt always

calls him "Lee." Everybody in New Orleans calls him "Lee". Nobody says, "Welcome back,

Harvey, long time no see." Nobody ever, ever says, "He asked me to call him Harvey."

Just one teacher said that. Upon her elderly shoulders rests the entire thesis that "Harvey"

attended Beauregard. It does not suffice that she mentions Voebel as "Harvey's" friend.

Do you see any record of a "Harvey" at Beauregard?

I don't--show me one in Armstrong's book. The witness clearly says "Harvey" lived where

"Lee" lived. So we are supposed to believe that the "two Oswalds" both attended the same

junior high school and even lived at the same address?==

JVB

Edited April 7, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Dean Hagerman]

JUDYTH REPLIES:

I was asked in 1960 to write a letter 'to President Kennedy'—that's what it says in an

unauthorized book that I did not get a chance to do a final correction on. It had even

been repeated from an earlier book. I take responsibility for the "President Kennedy'

part. What happened is that I was asked to write a letter to THE PRESIDENT by some

military officers and others. They said it was necessary, for some reason. I forgot to

write the letter until early in 1961, when, looking over loose ends, my mentor, Col.

Doyle, realized I had never written the letter. I wrote it and got a nice reply from JFK's

personal assistant, Ralph Dungan. The letter has some underlinings in it, and was found

in archives by researcher Tony Marsh. Enclosures included Peace Corps materials and

other materials. So decades later, I said I'd been asked to write 'to President Kennedy'

in 1960—and several 'researchers' jumped all over me for it. For the most part, I've

done a prety good job remembering details, but we're all human, and there may be

another error here and there. Just for fun, try to remember what important letters

YOU wrote decades ago![/b]

Well all I keep hearing is how Judyth is super smart and remembers the dates and details of everything

Looks to me like Barb uncovered some facts that Judyth tried to lie about

How many times does this have to happen (Judyth being wrong, or caught in a lie) before others are able to see through her false stories?

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but have you actually read the last eight posts?

JUDYTH REPLIES:

I was asked in 1960 to write a letter 'to President Kennedy'—that's what it says in an

unauthorized book that I did not get a chance to do a final correction on. It had even

been repeated from an earlier book. I take responsibility for the "President Kennedy'

part. What happened is that I was asked to write a letter to THE PRESIDENT by some

military officers and others. They said it was necessary, for some reason. I forgot to

write the letter until early in 1961, when, looking over loose ends, my mentor, Col.

Doyle, realized I had never written the letter. I wrote it and got a nice reply from JFK's

personal assistant, Ralph Dungan. The letter has some underlinings in it, and was found

in archives by researcher Tony Marsh. Enclosures included Peace Corps materials and

other materials. So decades later, I said I'd been asked to write 'to President Kennedy'

in 1960—and several 'researchers' jumped all over me for it. For the most part, I've

done a prety good job remembering details, but we're all human, and there may be

another error here and there. Just for fun, try to remember what important letters

YOU wrote decades ago![/b]

Well all I keep hearing is how Judyth is super smart and remembers the dates and details of everything

Looks to me like Barb uncovered some facts that Judyth tried to lie about

How many times does this have to happen (Judyth being wrong, or caught in a lie) before others are able to see through her false stories?

Edited April 6, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Dean Hagerman]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but have you actually read the last eight posts?

Wow

Im not posting in this thread anymore

[David Andrews]

I have never been in the services, but in a lifetime of looking at war photos, I have many times seen in shots of casual or tired soldiers, of many nations and eras, examples of them holding their rifles in cavalier manner - by the barrels, with the butts angled behind their boot heels, as if the weapons were being dragged; or in this potentially hand-endangering pose, which I plucked from much earlier in this thread:

I'm not going to debate the superior firearms etiquette of the Marine, but neither this nor the hunting photo rifle grip seem new under the sun, after seeing a hundred or so shots of GIs during lulls in Pacific island fighting during WW II.

Stuff happens. Soldiers get careless, and even wound themselves. Oswald's .22 pistol wound?....

Edited April 7, 2010 by David Andrews

[Karl Kinaski]

xxxx

Edited July 29, 2011 by Karl Kinaski

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Ahhh, an oversight, an uncorrected error, the name Kennedy accidentally slipped in there.

Then go figure the footnote, eh? It says:

The letter was written to Kennedy in May, 1960. JFK's personal assistant with experience in Latin American affairs, Ralph Dungan, immediately wrote a reply, which is in my possession. Dungan rode in the fatal Dallas motorcade on Nov. 22 with Kennedy's close advisor, Kenny O'Donnell.

People have been curious why she did not include the reply from the White House in her book. All kinds of assorted scraps of paper, envelope flaps, scribbles on envelopes are there ... but no letter from the White House. Is it any wonder some might consider it is because the date on that letter, May 1961, does not flow with her claim about being told to write to President Kennedy while at the Indianapolis science fair in May 1960 ... and her claim that Dungan "immediately wrote a reply." His letter is, of course, dated May, 1961, and was a response to her letter dated 3 months before that. At the very least, the date on Dungan's letter would seem to have served as a memory jogger for when she did write to JFK.

Thanks to Judyth for her explanation because for all the world, on its face, between the story in the book and the footnote, especially given that it points out that Dungan, a JFK advisor was experienced in Latin American affairs, it just looks like *somebody* forgot that while JFK is famous for 1960, he wasn't President until 1961... rather than having forgotten to follow the instructions given to her at the time she was surrounded by these men, signing loyalty oaths and being conscripted right there in Indianapolis at a science fair.

And, Jim, again, I have already told you I don't do Harvey & Lee ... or Harvey vs Lee ... and many assorted issues are being addressed here. I am, however, interested in Ms. Baker's claims and issues that are raised because of them. We have a unique opportunity with Judyth virtually being here, thanks to you. :-)

What better time to allow her to clear some things up!

And, congrats, Jim .... you seem to have finally figured out how to delete old posts in replies, but leaving the post being addressed is not a bad thing .... in this case it is post #982 .... thank goodness! :-)

[Kathleen Collins]

[/b]

LEE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EXHUMED, MARINA WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PUT THROUGH ALL OF THIS, EXCEPT FOR EVERYONE

INSISTING 'HARVEY' WAS NOT LEE, THAT (HARVEY/LEE) HAD A MISSING TOOTH AND -- WORSE -- THAT THE MUMMIFICATION

PROCESS THAT HELD TOGETHER THE SKULL WOULD BE INTERPRETED TO MAKE A MORTICIAN (WHO IS NOT A DOCTOR OR A

FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST) THINK THE CRANITOMY NEVER HAPPENED AND THAT THIS MUST BE SOMEBODY ELSE'S SKULL,

BECAUSE IT DID NOT FALL APART.

THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS THAT I EXPLAINED IN AN EARLIER POST ABOUT PARTIAL MUMMIFICATION AND

CALCIFICATION THAT SEALS UP SUTURES.

I BELIEVE THESE ARE IMPORTANT ISSUES AND THAT THE INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT.

PLEASE REREAD WHAT IMPLICATIONS ARE AT STAKE HERE.

THE HARVEY AND LEE MATTER -- WE NEED TO FIND OUT MUCH MORE ABOUT INTERVIEWS, ETC.

I AM CONCERNED THAT MYRA D WAS GUIDED TO SOME OF HER STATEMENTS, SUCH AS SAYING LEE WANTED TO BE CALLED

"HARVEY", SINCE LEE'S FRIEND, ED VOEBEL, CALLED HIM "LEE".

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE....

SOMEONE WISER THAN I AM CAN PERHAPS EXPLAIN WHY LEE WOULD HAVE ASKED HER TO CALL HIM 'HARVEY,' AS I KNOW LEE

DISLIKED HIS MIDDLE NAME.

I HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE RECORDS AT STRIPLING AND BEAUREGARD WHICH WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED YET.

I guess my analysis of the mummification process, and how calcification of the cranial suture where the bone was sawed, and

jellyfying of the scalp tissues in the partial mummification would hide the suture and also hold the top of the cranium secure with

the rest of the cranium...was not absorbed the readers...The exhumation should not have taken place if people had understood

how blood drained from the face changes the contours of the face drasically...the TERRIBLE job done by the mortician I shall not

comment further upon...But in the end, they exhumed poor Lee...

JVB

I have to use these pictures but I want to focus on only one of them. The picture on the lowest row, second from right is supposedly Lee Oswald. "Coincidentally," he has a brown front tooth. I had this photo in color, but apparently lost it when I had to buy a new CPU. In the photo if memory is correct, "Lee" had dark eyes.

Also -- Robert Oswald is alive and living in southern Texas. I can supply an address and phone number if someone wants to question Robert and pursue the idea that Robert was impersonating Lee, his "brother" and was successful. This might be a new piece of the puzzle. Something so obvious we missed it. Also if we could get his DNA. But I still believe in Harvey and Lee. And I think it's a work that was never discussed fully.

Kathy C

[Mike Williams]

Barb,

Absolutely magnificent work!

Best to you,

Mike

[Kathleen Collins]

 

In looking at this photo, I think it quite possible that it is of Lee before he reached puberty. Boys shoot up so fast around that time.

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

One more thing about what dentists sometimes did for a person missing a front or easily-seen tooth. They made the patient a "flipper." A flipper was not a good device. It had a roof to it and the fake tooth would replace the missing one. It was a horrible contraption -- you might as well wear dentures. And when they didn't fit -- oh my God.

Kathy C

Kathleen,

Is this like a bridge?

Mike

I am trying to keep up with these posts. I believe I explained what a bridge is. Above I am describing this weird thing. It had a plastic, pinkish roof to hold a fake tooth in, I guess, with suction. I don't think dentists resort to that now. It seems nowadays that a root canal and crown are mandatory and expensive.

Kathy C

[Barb Junkkarinen]

JUDYTH: MEDEC-ZOA

In an e-mail to Dave Reitzes in November 2000, Judyth told

him:

Anyway, the letter i have from Walter Reed mentions file name

MEDEC-ZOA. I was ZOA and I was assigned to something called ZOE.

In her book, as a caption under the photo of the letter she received

from Dr. Jacobus at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, Judyth

writes:

The letter and notes I received from Walter Reed referred to a file

called 'Medec Zoa'.

As quoted in my post on Judyth's letter to President Kennedy (post#982), Judyth claimed that when she was whisked away to a room by scientists, military officers and others and signed loyalty oaths, she was told to write to both President Kennedy and Walter Reed. She did write to Walter Reed (no copy of that letter available) and Jacobus replied to her on 2 September 1960. Walter Reed Institute of Research, then and now, enthusiastically supported students engaged in science and research. The letter is difficult to read here ... perhaps Judyth will provide copies to Jim so that the entire letter can be seen ... and so that it can be photographed or scanned head on and with greater clarity. Judyth had written WR about her interest and experiments in protecting against injury to the patient during radiation treatment. Dr. Jacobus was sending her some needed chemicals separately, was very encouraging, and encouraged her to let them know how her experiment worked out.

Judyth has claimed that she made regular reports, and that she received several more notes and packages ... but never another letter. No other notes, aside from this letter, has been shown.

The jpg of the letter is what Judyth sent Martin to post as part of her evidence. As you can see, the letter is not complete, the bottom half of the front page is not included. In her book, the bottom half of the page is covered by the end of the Jacobus letter on the next or back page.

"MEDEC-ZOA" appears to the left of the "logo" under the letterhead. It

is in no way buddied up to Judyth's name.

I asked a couple of military types, one Air Force, one Army, about

that acronym and both told me the MEDEC would refer to the Command,

and the ZOA would refer to some office within that command. They were

exactly right.

This is not a "file" nor does "ZOA" designate Judyth. It is what the

Army calls an "office symbol" and is essentially an address.

In army lingo, the first 5 letters, in this case, MEDEC, designate the

command. MEDEC was the Medical Research and Development Command, it

was created in 1958 and existed until 1994 when the command name was

changed to MRMC, Medical Research and Materials Command. Today the

office symbol for Walter Reed Army Institute of Research is MCMR [as of June 2008 when I initially wrote this].

The 3 letters after the hyphen, in this case "ZOA" refers to the the

place and department or office within that command. We know the letter

came from the office of the Chief of the Radiology Department.

The three letters that follow the current command, MCMR, are UWZ. Like

ZOA, those letters do not stand for anything ... they designate an

address within the command. The UW is common to all

offices/departments within WRAIR today. The third letter narrows it

down to which department or office, and if those 3 letters are

followed by a hyphen and then a number, it narrows it down even

further, even to a specific person.

MEDEC-ZOA was essentially the office or department address in Army

speak.

I spoke to Debra at WRAIR, she is the Assistant Director for Research

Marketing and Policy Development. She went to a couple of old timers

as well as to historical data on the previous command designations ...

and their "office symbols" of yore ... and then called me with the

information. My thanks to her.

MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regarding

Judyth for any special or secret project.

Barb :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

One more thing about what dentists sometimes did for a person missing a front or easily-seen tooth. They made the patient a "flipper." A flipper was not a good device. It had a roof to it and the fake tooth would replace the missing one. It was a horrible contraption -- you might as well wear dentures. And when they didn't fit -- oh my God.

Kathy C

Kathleen,

Is this like a bridge?

Mike

I am trying to keep up with these posts. I believe I explained what a bridge is. Above I am describing this weird thing. It had a plastic, pinkish roof to hold a fake tooth in, I guess, with suction. I don't think dentists resort to that now. It seems nowadays that a root canal and crown are mandatory and expensive.

Kathy C

Hi Kathy,

I think flippers are only resorted to for a stop gap measure these days ... I know my dentist hates them, but offered one to me as I broke a tooth off at the gumline and once the digging the root out heals, the 2 crowns and bridge process will begin. She said some people like to have a little something to fill the gap in the mean time, and your description seems to agree with the thing she showed me. Mine doesn't really show, so we agreed not to go there. Sounds like they are more trouble than they are worth and they break often.

Bests,

Barb :-)