Dean Hartwell Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 [From Lee Farley] Hi Dean ... Hope your book goes well - let us know when it's ready Lee Thank you, Lee. My book is available at this link: http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Men-Talking-Con...4150&sr=1-4 I would welcome any review from anyone interested. The book is best suited for those new to the JFK, RFK and 9/11 events and those undecided about them. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 (edited) JIM REPLIES TO JOHN SIMKIN ABOUT SPINNING ED HASLAM'S ATTITUDE Perhaps John Simkin has some special access I do not, but I am in regular contact with Ed Haslam and his preference is to defer discussion until her book, ME & LEE, has appeared so there will be a reference point for public discussion. Anyone who is reading the thread will be aware that Ed Haslam supports the authenticity of Judyth's role in these mysterious events in New Orleans. He has already agreed to a two-hour interview on "The Real Deal" as soon as her book has appeared, which is a very reasonable condition. Simkin seems intent upon spinning situations to the detriment of Judyth. I find this offensive coming from the founder of a forum which is ostensibly dedicated to discovering the truth in controversial and complex situations. I think remarks like this one do not contribute toward that goal. Here are some snags from Ed's DR. MARY'S MONKEY plus my interview, which was conducted last Thursday, April 8th, for example, and was first broadcast on Friday and will be repeated today on revereradio.net from 5-7 PM/CT. Go to http://www.youtube.com/user/LolaHeavey Ed Haslam grew up with these events swirling around him. He even asked his father on his death bed to share information he had withheld from him: For more, including an excellent chapter from MARY, FERRIE, AND THE MONKEY VIRUS, go to http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/04/ed...rys-monkey.html Mr Hogan, Thank you for sharing this with us. This all happened in Bradenton, FL? Glenn, I met Ed Haslam in Tampa, Florida (About one hour north of Bradenton) at a meeting sponsored by the South Florida Research Group. They are based in Miami. Mr. Haslam was discussing his research and his book that had just been published. The Judyth Baker story was a very small part of his presentation. Ed Haslam is a member of this forum but was unhappy about discussing Judyth Baker. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10653 Edited April 12, 2010 by James H. Fetzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Junkkarinen Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Because whether or not Oswald could drive has recently been discussed here, with Judyth asserting that she rode with Oswald while he was driving in a borrowed car, I am posting this information presented by Jean Davidson on alt.assassination.jfk, who quotes from the pages Judyth cited in her assertions. People can make up their own minds whether the citations actually match what Judyth asserted or not. Thanks to Jean for this: In the mammoth Judyth Baker thread on the Education forum, Ms. Baker quotes from Mary Ferrell's chronology and claims that Oswald could drive a car. QUOTE: April/May 1963 - "Oswald drives his uncle Murret's car. (WC Vol 2, pp. 503-504) Oswald's cousin, John Murret, let him drive his car sometime between May and July. (WC Vol 8, p. 151)" APRIL 28: Disgusted at learning Lee beat his wife, which he admits with shame, I am stuck having to stay with him because we are already far from the "Y" finding out how to find his father's grave, and I get lost very easily. He went to see his aunt, but I stayed outside because he was married. We had borrowed his cousin's car (See the note above in the Ferrell Chronology about borrowed cars.). UNQUOTE Unfortunately, the pages cited actually state that Oswald could NOT drive a car. The first cite (WC Vol 2, pp. 503 - 504) is from Ruth Paine, who said that Oswald had told her "he had never learned how" to drive. She said that he *told* her his uncle had allowed him to drive his car, "And he was in a sense pleased to report to me that he was getting some experience driving." Here are both pages: The second cite (WC Vol 8, p. 151) is from Oswald's aunt's testimony. QUOTE: Now, John felt sorry for Lee in a way, and he was trying to help him. John was good that way around anybody who he felt sorry for, like one time he said, "Come on, Lee, let's go for a ride, and I'll let you drive the car," and I think he sat next to Lee and let Lee steer the car, or something, but I don't know anything about that. I don't think Lee ever did know how to drive a car. Maybe he did, but as far as I know, he didn't know how to drive. UNQUOTE In addition to those two cites, cousin John Murret, whose car Oswald supposedly borrowed, testified: QUOTE: Mr. LIEBELER - He told you that he didn't know how to drive a car? Mr. MURRET - I can't directly say, you know, that he did, but the impression was--I could actually say that he did not know how to drive a car before he got behind the wheel. I actually had to tell him how to start the car and so forth, what to do on it. Mr. LIEBELER - Now on this particular night that you took him out in the car, would you tell us how he handled the car and just what you and he did, where you drove the car, how you practiced with it. Mr. MURRET - Well, this was at nighttime, as I was saying. I forget--I guess it was after supper. And I drove him to City Park, which is the city park here in New Orleans. It was by the golf driving range where they have these little parking partitions, yellow lines for parking places for the golfers, and I had brought him here. Mr. LIEBELER - You had driven the car from your house on French Street over to the parking lot in the park? Mr. MURRET - Yes, sir; and I was actually trying to teach him how to back up. It was a pushbutton car, a Dodge, a 1960 Dodge, a rather big car, no power steering or anything, and I was just trying to tell him, you know, how to go into the parking lanes and also backing into the parking lanes, and he was awkward, I mean as far as learning is concerned. You could see that he had never driven a car before. That is my impression of this. So after--we stayed there awhile and then I let him drive the car, you know, through the park and back home again. Mr. LIEBELER - You let him drive the car back to the house on French Street? Mr. MURRET - Yes, sir; it was through the park. There was no traffic or anything. Nobody was in the park. Mr. LIEBELER - It was just a drive through the park? Mr. MURRET - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - How did he seem to handle the car at that time? Mr. MURRET - Well, I had to stay next to him, tell you the truth. Evidently he could handle the car--I mean just steering-- because it was just regular gas and brake. That is all it is, you know. There is nothing to that. But in traffic, I really couldn't say how he could have handled it, you know, the car. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you go out with him again after that with the car? Mr. MURRET - No; that was the only time. UNQUOTE Uncle Dutz testified: QUOTE: Mr. JENNER - Could Lee drive a car, to your knowledge? Mr. MURRET - Not to my knowledge. Mr. JENNER - Did he ever drive a car, to your knowledge? Mr. MURRET - No. Mr. JENNER - Did you ever see him driving an automobile? Mr. MURRET - No. UNQUOTE (Since Uncle Dutz implicitly denied that Oswald drove his car, is it possible that Oswald told Ruth he'd driven his uncle's *son's* car, and Ruth misunderstood?) There's more, including Ruth's testimony about trying to teach Oswald to drive in the fall of 1963 and an application for a Texas learner's permit found among Oswald's belongings. So far as I know, no one who knew Oswald claimed that he could drive. Jean Barb :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Junkkarinen Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 In the mammoth Judyth Baker thread on the Education forum, Ms. Baker quotes from Mary Ferrell's chronology and claims that Oswald could drive a car. QUOTE: April/May 1963 - "Oswald drives his uncle Murret's car. (WC Vol 2, pp. 503-504) Oswald's cousin, John Murret, let him drive his car sometime between May and July. (WC Vol 8, p. 151)" APRIL 28: Disgusted at learning Lee beat his wife, which he admits with shame, I am stuck having to stay with him because we are already far from the "Y" finding out how to find his father's grave, and I get lost very easily. He went to see his aunt, but I stayed outside because he was married. We had borrowed his cousin's car (See the note above in the Ferrell Chronology about borrowed cars.). UNQUOTE Above, Judyth describes being with Oswald as he drove a borrowed car to his aunt's home, where she waited in the car because he was a married man ... and then is still with him, in that car, as Oswald went looking for his father's grave. This additional cite was also posted in response to me on the mod group by Jean Davidon: I should've pointed this out, but I think she was referring to a visit to another aunt, a relative of his late father. His cousin Marilyn mentioned it in her testimony. QUOTE: Miss MURRET. That was the only time that I had had any chance to talk with him, and that was the first day that he came--believe it was. After that, on Saturdays, or that particular Saturday he was out all day looking around for a job. And then on that Sunday he wanted to know where his father was buried, and he wanted to locate some of his relatives [....] Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ask you about this or---- Miss MURRET. My mother. Mr. LIEBELER. And you were there at the time? Miss MURRET. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. What did your mother tell him? Miss MURRET. My mother checked the telephone directory, and I think most were dead. Harvey Oswald, who was his godfather, I believe, is dead. He did find one relative and he went to see her. Mr. LIEBELER. What was her name? Miss MURRET. I don't know, but that might have been his wife. My mother would know. Mr. LIEBELER. Whose wife? Harvey Oswald's? Miss MURRET. They were very old. That was his father's brother, but they are all dead. But it might be one of the wives who is still living, and he went out there to see her, and she gave him a picture of his father. And then he went to visit the grave. Mr. LIEBELER. Of his father? Miss MURRET. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. Did he talk to you about that at all? Miss MURRET. No. Mr. LIEBELER. What happened to the picture? Do you know? Miss MURRET. I think he might have told my mother about it, and I think he might have told me, but I was there that Sunday and he caught the bus and went to the other house, and this old lady gave him the picture of his father. And he just showed it, and that was all. UNQUOTE http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/murret_m.htm> Note that she said Oswald "caught the bus." This woman was interviewed, but I don't have that cite at the moment. Jean According to testimonies, Oswald was traveling by bus that day. And none of them, as previously noted, knew him to even be able to drive. Bests, Barb :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 JUDYTH RESPONDS TO LEE FARLEY ABOUT THE "TWO OSWALDS" NOTE: There is no reason to suppose that Judyth has to demonstrate the untenability of HARVEY & LEE, especially since, in terms of John Armstrong's work, she knew only the one he calls "Harvey". On the other hand, she has offered observations about some of the "evidence" that has been advanced in support of the existence of "two Oswalds" and found it lacking. That includes several of the alleged photographic proofs, the alleged difference in the color of their eyes, and the "missing tooth" scenario. In addition, she has observed that the man she knew differed from "Harvey" with respect to several of the attributes ascribed to him by Armstrong, including, for example, having been born in Hungary and being unable to drive. What she has to contribute about the man that she knew in New Orleans thus poses some unavoidable conflicts with HARVEY & LEE. JUDYTH REPLIES: The questions posed by Lee Farley are repeated here in italics, Judyth's replies in bold: If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate? REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother? He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more. b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans? Because I am very familiar with Lee's past in New Orleans: he talked of it. Lee did like astronomy and I believe that part. He is alive and is aware of his vulnerabilities as to his testimony. More on this later. c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. [NOTE: Even J. Edgar acknowledge that the photos and audio recording from Mexico City were not those of Lee Harvey Oswald.]== d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. The problem is, there was more than one impersonator, and these impersonators are being neglected or ignored in favor of just one man who cannot be found and who, in fact, does not exist, per se, except in files that had created deep cover for the only and real LHO == e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house? ==Lee was there== f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while LHO was at work in the TSBD? ==He did that, too. You simply assume Lee was 'at work' at TSBD. Remember that the day Lee was arrested, his time card for the day was ALREADY FILLED OUT FOR A FULL 8 HOURS. Yes, it showed him working there for a full day -- 8 hours -- when he was missing from that building not long after the mid-day assassination. You assume he was at the job, but it was a cover job, just as at Reily's. He told me it was even better than at Reily's because there was no time clock to worry about -- everything got filled out by hand.== g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd? ==Do not assume he was always at the TSBD -- it is a fatal assumption== h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO was arrested and taken out the front? ==There were impersonators at the end, from Mexico City on. One impersonator who ran in the the Texas Theater AFTER LHO was already inside==whom the FBI informant at the shoe store then conveniently made sure was reported to the police by the frightened ticket-seller, who burst into tears when she was asked if it was REALLY the same guy that they brought out -- the guy who sold the popcorn shows us that Lee was already inside when Tippit was killed.== i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November? ==Lee owned one and the other was planted, just like the rifle was planted, etc., etc.== e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White? ==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient Traitor" Paine.== f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin? ==Lee owned it. He told me about it early on, along with why he did not get a car in New Orleans... While in Texas, he had laid it aside somewhere because the Texas highway patrol, he told me, had "flagged' it saying he was a 'known communist.' He therefore avoided driving as much as possible... and also did not have the license on him, in case he ever got arrested so he wouldn't ever get beat up by the police. Most of these questions have simple answers when you know what happened... I assume the license was found and returned to the Texas Drivers' License Bureau. Maybe he left it behind at the "YMCA"? Who knows? He old me he left it behind in Texas. I once lost my driver's license and it was returned to the state bureau. (I lived in Texas myself for over 18 years.)== I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming. ==Only if you swallow a theory and ignore a witness who can provide reasonable and sensible answers for you. I have stated, and will again, that there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun circles the earth, when actually, it is the earth that is turning, and the earth itself is actually circling the sun. But medieval thinkers had "the evidence" and it was "overwhelming." But it wasn't true, either.== John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had. ==I wish he had interviewed me. He decided that, because I wasn't pregnant, I could not have posed as Marina. He jumped to conclusions. He missed a witness, based on his assumption that I had to be pregnant if I posed as Marina. He forgot that Marina was all but sequestered. She never went to the French Quarter, for example. And I posed as Marina BEFORE she arrived in New Orleans. Note that when Marina and Ruth Paine visited the French Quarter in late September, before Marina was taken to Irving Texas--at which time she and Lee wept because he told her they probably would never meet again--for Lee and I had planned to marry in Mexico -- (see the 'official version' book MARINA AND LEE). He was soon ordered back to Dallas after the mission he had in Mexico City was called off -- though they'd promised him he could stay. That night just before leaving New Orleans, when Marina and Ruth went to the French Quarter, Lee did not go with them. Lee and I had spent a lot of time in the French Quarter. He did not want to be seen with Marina and Ruth in case somebody might have called out, "Oswald! Where's Marina?" So he did not go with them.They took the kids with them...he stayed behind, by himself...== JVB I believe JA to be the "real deal" in this matter... This thread has so much information, garbage, hearsay, facts, lies and insults included in it that I've kinda lost track of what the hell is going on.Do we all have to make a decision here to believe Judyth and take the "side" of Jim Fetzer or alternatively disbelieve her and take the "side" of David Lifton? Then what? Start a giant pie fight that would put Laurel and Hardy to shame? And would the icing on the proverbial cake (or pie) be the shouting of the F-Word at those who are not on our "side" anymore? Absolutely pathetic. The key message in all of this for me is this: has John Armstrong's thesis any legs in light of what JVB has to say? If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate? b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans? c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City? d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination? e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house? f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while LHO was at work in the TSBD? g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd? h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO was arrested and taken out the front? i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November? e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White? f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin? I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming. John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had. I believe JA to be the "real deal" in this matter... ...oh and by the way, this is how the whole "alterationist" versus "anti-alterationsist" pissing contest started - the lowering of conscious thought into a tribalistic meme of "thinking" that consists of "you don't think the same thing as me? Well, F*** you!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 (edited) JUDYTH RESPONDS TO BARB JUNKKARINEN ABOUT WHETHER LEE COULD DRIVE NOTE: An interesting article by Jim Hargrove, "Harvey and Lee: The Man who Could-- and Couldn't--Drive", http://spot.acorn.net/JFKplace/03/JA/JH/JHJA/09-JH.html, offers some reflections on this question. Ultimately, of course, Judyth knows that the man she knew in New Orleans could drive because she had driven with him. Frankly, the very idea of a young man who could speak fluent Russian not knowing how to drive strikes me as a bit absurd. As Judyth has remarked, he must have been the only boy in LA who couldn't drive. JUDYTH REPLIES: ==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient Traitor" Paine.== I was wrong. I saw the quotes from Mary Ferrell that "Lee drives" the cousin's car and the uncle's car, and because I knew from experience that Lee could drive, I thought that the reference meant the cousin and uncle said so, too, as per Ferrell's notation. I stand corrected. However, Lee did borrow "a cousin's" car, and the fact that Lee initially took a bus to pick me up to go with him -- it's neat to see a testimony that Lee took a bus that morning, which is also what I report -- and only after he visited his aunt did we pick up the car-- exists. Enough references to Lee driving a car exist. The barber near the Paine home is a good one because he saw Lee up close and cut his hair, and of course would be able to recognize him in the car with Marina and Ruth Paine. It rather supports what Lee told me -- that he did not want a car and pre- ended he could not drive to Marina, though I do not know how long he kept thast fact from her. We can never tell from Marina's testimony, and we sure can trust nothing that Ruth Paine says except her own name and address (that's a joke, for those purists quoting me out there...). There are dozens of other examples of people who knew Lee Harvey Oswald could drive, but rather than quoting them as well, let's just cut to the chase. Again I post a definitive testimony, signed, sealed and delivered: On February 14, 1968, Aletha Frair made the following signed statement to Garrison investigator Gary Sanders: OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY STATE OF LOUISIANA PARISH OF ORLEANS DATE: February 14, 1968 STATEMENT OF: ALETHA FRAIR RESIDING AT: 8001 Benson New Orleans, LA Phone - 242-2126 S T A T E M E N T My name is ALETHA FRAIR (MRS. JOHN FRAIR). I live at: 8001 Benson New Orleans, La. Phone - 242-2126 I worked for the Department of Public Safety in Austin, Texas from the early part of October 1963, through the early part of December 1963. While I was employed at the Department of Public Safety I worked in the License Records Department. This Dept. Was responsible for the IBM computer records of all drivers licenses in the state of Texas. My husband, JOHN, was working for the United Press International during November of 1963 and on November 22, 1963 he was in Uvalde, Texas, covering the birthday of ex-Vice President JOHN NANCE GARNER. I did not go to work on the 22 of November, 1963, but the following event occured (sic) the week after the assassination of President KENNEDY. During the week following the murder of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, on either Wednesday the 27th, or Tuesday the 28th of November, 1963 the Texas driver's license issued to LEE HARVEY OSWALD came into my division. The record (IBM card) on OSWALD was pulled from the files. Several other employees (5 or 6) of the Department saw the driver's license which was dirty and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact that he had been killed. In October of 1966 my husband and I moved to New Orleans and in June of 1967 my husband went to work for WWL-TV, Channel 4. I, ALETHA FRAIR, hereby affirm that all of the above statement is true to the best of my knowledge. Signed February 14, 1968. (Signature of Aletha Frair) ==Or go ahead and believe Ruth Paine, and Marina....and don't believe the barber nearby, who cut LHO's hair half a dozen times; don't believe Aletha Frair, who saw his driver's license, and it was battered--it had been used; don't believe me; don't believe Reeves Morgan and his daughter Mary Morgan, who both said Oswald was in their house -- and outside was an old car in which only a woman was sitting (myself). Believe the two women who were used to frame LHO. As for my making an error in citing two sources, every- body makes mistakes. My testimony about the cousin lending Lee the car stands, though it seems I cannot prove it. However, conjuring up Lee taking a bus 'to the aunt's house' was pure conjecture on the part of "MIss Murret" who only saw him take a bus -- at which time he picked me up.== JVB In the mammoth Judyth Baker thread on the Education forum, Ms. Baker quotes from Mary Ferrell's chronology and claims that Oswald could drive a car. QUOTE: April/May 1963 - "Oswald drives his uncle Murret's car. (WC Vol 2, pp. 503-504) Oswald's cousin, John Murret, let him drive his car sometime between May and July. (WC Vol 8, p. 151)" APRIL 28: Disgusted at learning Lee beat his wife, which he admits with shame, I am stuck having to stay with him because we are already far from the "Y" finding out how to find his father's grave, and I get lost very easily. He went to see his aunt, but I stayed outside because he was married. We had borrowed his cousin's car (See the note above in the Ferrell Chronology about borrowed cars.). UNQUOTE Above, Judyth describes being with Oswald as he drove a borrowed car to his aunt's home, where she waited in the car because he was a married man ... and then is still with him, in that car, as Oswald went looking for his father's grave. This additional cite was also posted in response to me on the mod group by Jean Davidon: I should've pointed this out, but I think she was referring to a visit to another aunt, a relative of his late father. His cousin Marilyn mentioned it in her testimony. QUOTE: Miss MURRET. That was the only time that I had had any chance to talk with him, and that was the first day that he came--believe it was. After that, on Saturdays, or that particular Saturday he was out all day looking around for a job. And then on that Sunday he wanted to know where his father was buried, and he wanted to locate some of his relatives [....] Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ask you about this or---- Miss MURRET. My mother. Mr. LIEBELER. And you were there at the time? Miss MURRET. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. What did your mother tell him? Miss MURRET. My mother checked the telephone directory, and I think most were dead. Harvey Oswald, who was his godfather, I believe, is dead. He did find one relative and he went to see her. Mr. LIEBELER. What was her name? Miss MURRET. I don't know, but that might have been his wife. My mother would know. Mr. LIEBELER. Whose wife? Harvey Oswald's? Miss MURRET. They were very old. That was his father's brother, but they are all dead. But it might be one of the wives who is still living, and he went out there to see her, and she gave him a picture of his father. And then he went to visit the grave. Mr. LIEBELER. Of his father? Miss MURRET. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. Did he talk to you about that at all? Miss MURRET. No. Mr. LIEBELER. What happened to the picture? Do you know? Miss MURRET. I think he might have told my mother about it, and I think he might have told me, but I was there that Sunday and he caught the bus and went to the other house, and this old lady gave him the picture of his father. And he just showed it, and that was all. UNQUOTE http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/murret_m.htm> Note that she said Oswald "caught the bus." This woman was interviewed, but I don't have that cite at the moment. Jean According to testimonies, Oswald was traveling by bus that day. And none of them, as previously noted, knew him to even be able to drive. Bests, Barb :-) Edited April 13, 2010 by James H. Fetzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hogan Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 JIM RESPONDS TO MICHAEL HOGAN ABOUT ED HASLAM'S RESEARCHMichael, I corresponded with Ed about your questions and he replied that he had not provided "two accounts" of his meeting with Judyth. I suspect you may be confounding his meeting with a fake "Judyth Vary Baker" in 1972 and the "Judyth Vary Baker" brought to him by "60 Minutes" in 2000. On the new blog I have posted about Ed's research, you can find Chapter 17, "The Witness", from MARY, FERRIE, AND THE MONKEY VIRUS, which may be revised for his new book, but which has the notation "MARY, FERRIE, AND THE MONKEY VIRUS" printed on the pages we have republished. I believe that note [2] answers another of your questions about why Ed did not pursue her in 1972. Jim, let me preface this by saying I do not want to be confrontational with you, but this is very frustrating. I am not confounding anything. I don't believe you have answered or addressed any of my questions. Let me just ask question one at a time. This one is reproduced from the other day: Ed Haslam tells Jim Marrs that upon receiving documents from Sixty Minutes, he recognized the name Judyth Vary Baker and because the name was accompanied by her phone number, he picked up the phone and called her, fully expecting her to be the woman he met in 1972. He was "very surprised" to find out she was not. Haslam recounts this at about the 52:40 mark of Marrs' interview http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678503303319704937# Haslam gives a different account in Dr Mary's Monkey, saying that he first called Baker after the 60 Minute team had "pulled the plug on the JVB story." (Page 287) Question: How do you perceive Haslam's varying accounts of when he first spoke to the "real" Judyth Vary Baker, and are the differences important? Will you please take the time to listen to Haslam's account as he related it to Jim Marrs in 2003 and then explain how that squares with what he writes in Dr Mary's Monkey regarding the first time he called the Judyth Baker that 60 Minutes was investigating? This has nothing to do with the actual 1972 episode in New Orleans, other than Haslam's remembrance of it when he contacted the present Judtyh Vary Baker for the first time. For the purposes of this thread I am not especially interested in Ed Haslam's research re Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, Ed Butler, Alton Ochsner, INCA, etc. I do like the man and find his research fascinating. I am not attacking him. I do have some issues with what I think he says and doesn't say about JVB. I have three or four more questions, but I will pose them again separately in the near future. I hope you will consider the above question and take it in the spirit in which it is intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Michael, OK. I had missed the point, which I take it is a "before" and "after" difference in relation to when "60 Minutes" pulled the plug: when he got the documents with the phone number it was "before", but when contacted her "after they pulled the plug", it was "after". So I'll ask him about it. He did make a Powerpoint presentation at COPA in November 2009 on ME & LEE and we are planning to convert it into a YouTube presentation when the time is right, probably a few months from now. I appreciate your interest. I shall contact Ed and invite him to address the question that you raise. Jim JIM RESPONDS TO MICHAEL HOGAN ABOUT ED HASLAM'S RESEARCH Michael, I corresponded with Ed about your questions and he replied that he had not provided "two accounts" of his meeting with Judyth. I suspect you may be confounding his meeting with a fake "Judyth Vary Baker" in 1972 and the "Judyth Vary Baker" brought to him by "60 Minutes" in 2000. On the new blog I have posted about Ed's research, you can find Chapter 17, "The Witness", from MARY, FERRIE, AND THE MONKEY VIRUS, which may be revised for his new book, but which has the notation "MARY, FERRIE, AND THE MONKEY VIRUS" printed on the pages we have republished. I believe that note [2] answers another of your questions about why Ed did not pursue her in 1972. Jim, let me preface this by saying I do not want to be confrontational with you, but this is very frustrating. I am not confounding anything. I don't believe you have answered or addressed any of my questions. Let me just ask question one at a time. This one is reproduced from the other day: Ed Haslam tells Jim Marrs that upon receiving documents from Sixty Minutes, he recognized the name Judyth Vary Baker and because the name was accompanied by her phone number, he picked up the phone and called her, fully expecting her to be the woman he met in 1972. He was "very surprised" to find out she was not. Haslam recounts this at about the 52:40 mark of Marrs' interview http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678503303319704937# Haslam gives a different account in Dr Mary's Monkey, saying that he first called Baker after the 60 Minute team had "pulled the plug on the JVB story." (Page 287) Question: How do you perceive Haslam's varying accounts of when he first spoke to the "real" Judyth Vary Baker, and are the differences important? Will you please take the time to listen to Haslam's account as he related it to Jim Marrs in 2003 and then explain how that squares with what he writes in Dr Mary's Monkey regarding the first time he called the Judyth Baker that 60 Minutes was investigating? This has nothing to do with the actual 1972 episode in New Orleans, other than Haslam's remembrance of it when he contacted the present Judtyh Vary Baker for the first time. For the purposes of this thread I am not especially interested in Ed Haslam's research re Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, Ed Butler, Alton Ochsner, INCA, etc. I do like the man and find his research fascinating. I am not attacking him. I do have some issues with what I think he says and doesn't say about JVB. I have three or four more questions, but I will pose them again separately in the near future. I hope you will consider the above question and take it in the spirit in which it is intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 (edited) Lee Farley (once again) said: What I meant was that the person I was referring to was one minute cheering on one group of people with determined gusto and then calmly and ever so politely calling for agreements around the disagreements. That is what I meant by my fictional term of "intellectual bi-polarism" You are right that I meant no harm. I fully understand the symptoms and effects of bi-polar disorder (previously called manic depression). Lee Farley has completely misread my posts and has then created strawmen about them. "Cheering on one group" is his interpretation and has nothing to do with anything I said or intended to do. Keeping research moving forward on the Judyth thread without repeated ad homs and attacks on her was. I dared to make a suggestion that the CTs have the alternative of working together rather than turning on each other. That if we have had our say, we don't need to keep repeating ourselves. I dared to believe there was a possibility that we could agree-to-disagree on Judyth rather than have decades-long friendships be torn apart for good. A suggestion is simply that. Take it or leave it. But why try to kill the messenger? Rather than acknowledge what I said Lee Farley has chosen to take things out of context and make up incorrect statements including ad homs. Apparently, there is no value in his scenario to trying to find a common ground? Ironically, by resorting to fallacy of logic he is giving clear indication of the weakness of his position. Those who believe they have a strong case can usually manage to keep to the high road. Edited April 14, 2010 by Pamela McElwain-Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Excellent and accurate summation, Lee. It is an important distinction that LEE could drive and had a license, and HARVEY could not drive and had no license. Jack If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate? REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother? He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more. b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans? Because I am very familiar with Lee's past in New Orleans: he talked of it. Lee did like astronomy and I believe that part. He is alive and is aware of his vulnerabilities as to his testimony. More on this later. c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. [NOTE: Even J. Edgar acknowledge that the photos and audio recording from Mexico City were not those of Lee Harvey Oswald.]== d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. The problem is, there was more than one impersonator, and these impersonators are being neglected or ignored in favor of just one man who cannot be found and who, in fact, does not exist, per se, except in files that had created deep cover for the only and real LHO == e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house? ==Lee was there== f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while LHO was at work in the TSBD? ==He did that, too. You simply assume Lee was 'at work' at TSBD. Remember that the day Lee was arrested, his time card for the day was ALREADY FILLED OUT FOR A FULL 8 HOURS. Yes, it showed him working there for a full day -- 8 hours -- when he was missing from that building not long after the mid-day assassination. You assume he was at the job, but it was a cover job, just as at Reily's. He told me it was even better than at Reily's because there was no time clock to worry about -- everything got filled out by hand.== g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd? ==Do not assume he was always at the TSBD -- it is a fatal assumption== h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO was arrested and taken out the front? ==There were impersonators at the end, from Mexico City on. One impersonator who ran in the the Texas Theater AFTER LHO was already inside==whom the FBI informant at the shoe store then conveniently made sure was reported to the police by the frightened ticket-seller, who burst into tears when she was asked if it was REALLY the same guy that they brought out -- the guy who sold the popcorn shows us that Lee was already inside when Tippit was killed.== i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November? ==Lee owned one and the other was planted, just like the rifle was planted, etc., etc.== e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White? ==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient Traitor" Paine.== f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin? ==Lee owned it. He told me about it early on, along with why he did not get a car in New Orleans... While in Texas, he had laid it aside somewhere because the Texas highway patrol, he told me, had "flagged' it saying he was a 'known communist.' He therefore avoided driving as much as possible... and also did not have the license on him, in case he ever got arrested so he wouldn't ever get beat up by the police. Most of these questions have simple answers when you know what happened... I assume the license was found and returned to the Texas Drivers' License Bureau. Maybe he left it behind at the "YMCA"? Who knows? He old me he left it behind in Texas. I once lost my driver's license and it was returned to the state bureau. (I lived in Texas myself for over 18 years.)== I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming. ==Only if you swallow a theory and ignore a witness who can provide reasonable and sensible answers for you. I have stated, and will again, that there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun circles the earth, when actually, it is the earth that is turning, and the earth itself is actually circling the sun. But medieval thinkers had "the evidence" and it was "overwhelming." But it wasn't true, either.== John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had. ==I wish he had interviewed me. He decided that, because I wasn't pregnant, I could not have posed as Marina. He jumped to conclusions. He missed a witness, based on his assumption that I had to be pregnant if I posed as Marina. He forgot that Marina was all but sequestered. She never went to the French Quarter, for example. And I posed as Marina BEFORE she arrived in New Orleans. Note that when Marina and Ruth Paine visited the French Quarter in late September, before Marina was taken to Irving Texas--at which time she and Lee wept because he told her they probably would never meet again--for Lee and I had planned to marry in Mexico -- (see the 'official version' book MARINA AND LEE). He was soon ordered back to Dallas after the mission he had in Mexico City was called off -- though they'd promised him he could stay. That night just before leaving New Orleans, when Marina and Ruth went to the French Quarter, Lee did not go with them. Lee and I had spent a lot of time in the French Quarter. He did not want to be seen with Marina and Ruth in case somebody might have called out, "Oswald! Where's Marina?" So he did not go with them.They took the kids with them...he stayed behind, by himself...== JVB a) I find this difficult to believe. I would think that if LHO was being run as an agent out of Angleton’s office through the ONI then surely Robert Webster would have been run the same way. Webster defected two weeks before Oswald and then miraculously re-defected two weeks before. There was no attempt to generate records to make it seem that Webster had never gone to the USSR. It was common knowledge, reported in the newspapers, according to him he knew Marina Prusakova, he worked for the RAND Corporation, and there seems no special dispensation afforded upon his return to the U.S.A. like the one you believe was going to be afforded Lee if it wasn’t for his “meddling” mother. It doesn’t add up. Why run an agent and then try to eradicate or alter records to show they didn’t go? I would assume that the USSR would keep their records? Newspaper articles can’t go down the Nineteen –Eighty Four memory hole? People like Guy Banister would still have records. b. Whether Lee worked at Pfisterer is not the issue. I think we can all take it as read that Lee worked there. It is the year that he worked there that is of significance. McBride claims he knew Lee at Pfisterer between December 1957 and May 1958. If this is correct then we have a second Oswald in the Marines during this time period. The Warren Commission dealt with this by pushing back the date of Oswald’s employment to 1956.On the subject of Lee’s interest in astrology, McBride claims that Oswald knew very little about the subject. When he was introduced to William Wulf (President of the New Orleans Astronomy Club), Wulf claims that Oswald knew so little about it that he wondered why he wanted to join. Oswald seemed to use the meeting he attended at Wulf’s house to look through the political books and argue with the other members about communism. The exchanges becoming so heated that Wulf’s father threw him out the house. Wulf also claimed to know Oswald in 1958, not 1956 as per the Warren Commission. c) Is the suggestion here that LHO never went to Mexico City within the currently accepted timeframes? I fully appreciate that he was impersonated by person/persons but when did he go? d) It is the Sport Drome event (Sunday, November 17th) that grabs my attention. Oswald was identified by Garland Slack after Oswald shot up Garland targets whilst “burning up ammunition.” The element of this story that gives it a greater meaning is that Slack was insistent that a guy by the name of Frazier from Irving had brought Lee to the range. Earleen Roberts claimed that Lee didn’t go anywhere that day and its greater importance is that Oswald was supposed to be in Irving over the weekend visiting his kids. e) If it's Lee at Sylvia Odio's house then he can't be going south. So, again, LHO didn’t go to Mexico City? f) The thing that gets me about the Red Bird Air Field situation is this. Wayne January stated that on the morning of 20th November 1963 someone who claims to be Oswald was trying to charter a plane. Yes, you are right, he was supposed to be in the TSBD but if this job was a cover then it’s feasible that he could leave whenever he wanted. The problem I have with this is who was running the cover for him in the TSBD? I am familiar with the work of Richard Gilbride regarding his theory that certain employees in the TSBD were involved in the assassination and I am open to this idea. The spanner in the works is this. On Wednesday 20th of November at 10:30am Ralph Yates picked up a man who he claims was Oswald and took him to the TSBD carrying a package that the “Oswald” stated were “…curtain rods.” So, do we again have two Oswald’s to account for? Assuming there isn’t a third in the TSBD. g) He must have worked there at some point. Even if it’s to maintain a cover you have to be there so people see you actually working. It would appear that this guy spent less time at work than Homer Simpson. Here is John Armstrong’s breakdown of who saw LHO at the TSBD at the described times on November 22nd: 8:00 am --- Wesley Frazier, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, Roy Truly, Jack Dougherty 8:00 am until noon --- William Shelley --- "I saw him periodically all morning" 8:30 am --- Wesley Frazier 9:00 am --- James Jarman 10:00 am --- Roy Lewis, Eddie Piper 11:00 am --- Jack Dougherty, Wesley Frazier 11:30 am --- James Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams 11:50 am --- William Shelley, Danny Arce 12:00 noon --- Jack Dougherty, Eddie Piper 12:15 pm --- Mrs. R.E. Arnold Oswald’s presence in the Jiffy store was at 8:30am. He bought beer resulting in showing his driver license. The store clerk Fred Moore claims that he returned at 9:00am to buy some peco brittle. Now,either Fred Moore is mistaken, the TSBD employees are lying or there are two Oswald’s. Multiple people also saw LHO at the Top Ten Records store on Jefferson at 7:30am, whilst he was driving to the TSBD with BW Frazier. h) Agreed on the points concerning impersonation at the Texas Theater. Although we also have Roger Craig’s sighting of the “double” leaving the TSBD in the Nash Rambler and the other LHO leaving the area by bus and cab. i) There were more than two wallets. j) I would say that’s it’s more than possible that he could drive. But that doesn’t explain the guy driving the Red Ford Falcon. You see, T.F. White saw him sitting in it in a car park a block away from Davis Street. At this point in time Lee Harvey Oswald was already under arrest and on his way to the city jail. k) I would again reiterate that I think it possible he could drive but obviously someone was using his driving license if we are to believe the observations of Fred Moore from the Jiffy Store. I appreciate your replies to my questions Judyth and I will continue to wade through all this information. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Hagerman Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Lee Foley has completely misread my posts . From where im sitting it looks like you cant even read Lee's name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Hartwell Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Jack, Your reply below does not help a discussion of whether there were a "Lee" and a "Harvey." By stating the distinctions between LEE and HARVEY, you announce your conclusion prematurely. Why not let Jim or Judyth respond to Lee Farley's rebuttal. Lee has asked fair questions, but from my point of view, his rebuttals do not rule out the possibility of several imposters. Dean Excellent and accurate summation, Lee.It is an important distinction that LEE could drive and had a license, and HARVEY could not drive and had no license. Jack If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate? REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother? He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more. b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans? Because I am very familiar with Lee's past in New Orleans: he talked of it. Lee did like astronomy and I believe that part. He is alive and is aware of his vulnerabilities as to his testimony. More on this later. c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. [NOTE: Even J. Edgar acknowledge that the photos and audio recording from Mexico City were not those of Lee Harvey Oswald.]== d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. The problem is, there was more than one impersonator, and these impersonators are being neglected or ignored in favor of just one man who cannot be found and who, in fact, does not exist, per se, except in files that had created deep cover for the only and real LHO == e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house? ==Lee was there== f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while LHO was at work in the TSBD? ==He did that, too. You simply assume Lee was 'at work' at TSBD. Remember that the day Lee was arrested, his time card for the day was ALREADY FILLED OUT FOR A FULL 8 HOURS. Yes, it showed him working there for a full day -- 8 hours -- when he was missing from that building not long after the mid-day assassination. You assume he was at the job, but it was a cover job, just as at Reily's. He told me it was even better than at Reily's because there was no time clock to worry about -- everything got filled out by hand.== g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd? ==Do not assume he was always at the TSBD -- it is a fatal assumption== h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO was arrested and taken out the front? ==There were impersonators at the end, from Mexico City on. One impersonator who ran in the the Texas Theater AFTER LHO was already inside==whom the FBI informant at the shoe store then conveniently made sure was reported to the police by the frightened ticket-seller, who burst into tears when she was asked if it was REALLY the same guy that they brought out -- the guy who sold the popcorn shows us that Lee was already inside when Tippit was killed.== i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November? ==Lee owned one and the other was planted, just like the rifle was planted, etc., etc.== e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White? ==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient Traitor" Paine.== f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin? ==Lee owned it. He told me about it early on, along with why he did not get a car in New Orleans... While in Texas, he had laid it aside somewhere because the Texas highway patrol, he told me, had "flagged' it saying he was a 'known communist.' He therefore avoided driving as much as possible... and also did not have the license on him, in case he ever got arrested so he wouldn't ever get beat up by the police. Most of these questions have simple answers when you know what happened... I assume the license was found and returned to the Texas Drivers' License Bureau. Maybe he left it behind at the "YMCA"? Who knows? He old me he left it behind in Texas. I once lost my driver's license and it was returned to the state bureau. (I lived in Texas myself for over 18 years.)== I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming. ==Only if you swallow a theory and ignore a witness who can provide reasonable and sensible answers for you. I have stated, and will again, that there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun circles the earth, when actually, it is the earth that is turning, and the earth itself is actually circling the sun. But medieval thinkers had "the evidence" and it was "overwhelming." But it wasn't true, either.== John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had. ==I wish he had interviewed me. He decided that, because I wasn't pregnant, I could not have posed as Marina. He jumped to conclusions. He missed a witness, based on his assumption that I had to be pregnant if I posed as Marina. He forgot that Marina was all but sequestered. She never went to the French Quarter, for example. And I posed as Marina BEFORE she arrived in New Orleans. Note that when Marina and Ruth Paine visited the French Quarter in late September, before Marina was taken to Irving Texas--at which time she and Lee wept because he told her they probably would never meet again--for Lee and I had planned to marry in Mexico -- (see the 'official version' book MARINA AND LEE). He was soon ordered back to Dallas after the mission he had in Mexico City was called off -- though they'd promised him he could stay. That night just before leaving New Orleans, when Marina and Ruth went to the French Quarter, Lee did not go with them. Lee and I had spent a lot of time in the French Quarter. He did not want to be seen with Marina and Ruth in case somebody might have called out, "Oswald! Where's Marina?" So he did not go with them.They took the kids with them...he stayed behind, by himself...== JVB a) I find this difficult to believe. I would think that if LHO was being run as an agent out of Angleton’s office through the ONI then surely Robert Webster would have been run the same way. Webster defected two weeks before Oswald and then miraculously re-defected two weeks before. There was no attempt to generate records to make it seem that Webster had never gone to the USSR. It was common knowledge, reported in the newspapers, according to him he knew Marina Prusakova, he worked for the RAND Corporation, and there seems no special dispensation afforded upon his return to the U.S.A. like the one you believe was going to be afforded Lee if it wasn’t for his “meddling” mother. It doesn’t add up. Why run an agent and then try to eradicate or alter records to show they didn’t go? I would assume that the USSR would keep their records? Newspaper articles can’t go down the Nineteen –Eighty Four memory hole? People like Guy Banister would still have records. b. Whether Lee worked at Pfisterer is not the issue. I think we can all take it as read that Lee worked there. It is the year that he worked there that is of significance. McBride claims he knew Lee at Pfisterer between December 1957 and May 1958. If this is correct then we have a second Oswald in the Marines during this time period. The Warren Commission dealt with this by pushing back the date of Oswald’s employment to 1956.On the subject of Lee’s interest in astrology, McBride claims that Oswald knew very little about the subject. When he was introduced to William Wulf (President of the New Orleans Astronomy Club), Wulf claims that Oswald knew so little about it that he wondered why he wanted to join. Oswald seemed to use the meeting he attended at Wulf’s house to look through the political books and argue with the other members about communism. The exchanges becoming so heated that Wulf’s father threw him out the house. Wulf also claimed to know Oswald in 1958, not 1956 as per the Warren Commission. c) Is the suggestion here that LHO never went to Mexico City within the currently accepted timeframes? I fully appreciate that he was impersonated by person/persons but when did he go? d) It is the Sport Drome event (Sunday, November 17th) that grabs my attention. Oswald was identified by Garland Slack after Oswald shot up Garland targets whilst “burning up ammunition.” The element of this story that gives it a greater meaning is that Slack was insistent that a guy by the name of Frazier from Irving had brought Lee to the range. Earleen Roberts claimed that Lee didn’t go anywhere that day and its greater importance is that Oswald was supposed to be in Irving over the weekend visiting his kids. e) If it's Lee at Sylvia Odio's house then he can't be going south. So, again, LHO didn’t go to Mexico City? f) The thing that gets me about the Red Bird Air Field situation is this. Wayne January stated that on the morning of 20th November 1963 someone who claims to be Oswald was trying to charter a plane. Yes, you are right, he was supposed to be in the TSBD but if this job was a cover then it’s feasible that he could leave whenever he wanted. The problem I have with this is who was running the cover for him in the TSBD? I am familiar with the work of Richard Gilbride regarding his theory that certain employees in the TSBD were involved in the assassination and I am open to this idea. The spanner in the works is this. On Wednesday 20th of November at 10:30am Ralph Yates picked up a man who he claims was Oswald and took him to the TSBD carrying a package that the “Oswald” stated were “…curtain rods.” So, do we again have two Oswald’s to account for? Assuming there isn’t a third in the TSBD. g) He must have worked there at some point. Even if it’s to maintain a cover you have to be there so people see you actually working. It would appear that this guy spent less time at work than Homer Simpson. Here is John Armstrong’s breakdown of who saw LHO at the TSBD at the described times on November 22nd: 8:00 am --- Wesley Frazier, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, Roy Truly, Jack Dougherty 8:00 am until noon --- William Shelley --- "I saw him periodically all morning" 8:30 am --- Wesley Frazier 9:00 am --- James Jarman 10:00 am --- Roy Lewis, Eddie Piper 11:00 am --- Jack Dougherty, Wesley Frazier 11:30 am --- James Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams 11:50 am --- William Shelley, Danny Arce 12:00 noon --- Jack Dougherty, Eddie Piper 12:15 pm --- Mrs. R.E. Arnold Oswald’s presence in the Jiffy store was at 8:30am. He bought beer resulting in showing his driver license. The store clerk Fred Moore claims that he returned at 9:00am to buy some peco brittle. Now,either Fred Moore is mistaken, the TSBD employees are lying or there are two Oswald’s. Multiple people also saw LHO at the Top Ten Records store on Jefferson at 7:30am, whilst he was driving to the TSBD with BW Frazier. h) Agreed on the points concerning impersonation at the Texas Theater. Although we also have Roger Craig’s sighting of the “double” leaving the TSBD in the Nash Rambler and the other LHO leaving the area by bus and cab. i) There were more than two wallets. j) I would say that’s it’s more than possible that he could drive. But that doesn’t explain the guy driving the Red Ford Falcon. You see, T.F. White saw him sitting in it in a car park a block away from Davis Street. At this point in time Lee Harvey Oswald was already under arrest and on his way to the city jail. k) I would again reiterate that I think it possible he could drive but obviously someone was using his driving license if we are to believe the observations of Fred Moore from the Jiffy Store. I appreciate your replies to my questions Judyth and I will continue to wade through all this information. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 JIM RESPONDS TO LEE FARLEY ABOUT A SERIES OF QUESTIONS Fascinating, Lee. May I infer this represents your own research, or is it largely derived from that of John Armstrong? Jack, of course, is simply begging the question by taking for granted that there were "two Oswalds". My inclination at this point in time, given the problems I have encountered with HARVEY & LEE already, is to think that Robert was a prime candidate to be impersonating his brother on various occasions but that probably there were multiple impostors from time to time, where many documents and records were fabricated and faked to create a false personal history so that the one and only Lee Harvey Oswald could return to a normal life, where Armstrong does not appear to have taken that prospect seriously and, I believe, has accepted some phony ones as authentic. How many and how crucial they are to his thesis, I have yet to determine. A perfect example, of course, is Jack's insistence that "Harvey" could not drive. I think, if that were the case, he would be almost unique among millions and millions of young Americans, virtually all of whom can drive. Moreover, Judyth's claim that he could drive is based upon ACTUALLY DRIVING WITH HIM, which, I dare say, takes precedence over a flurry of reports that he could not. Putting these considerations together, I am inclined to believe that the man she knew in New Orleans could drive, even if, for reasons of his own, he wanted others to believe that he could not. You appear to know quite a lot more than I about the issues under consideration here, other than that Caroline Arnold saw him in the lunchroom again at 12:25 PM, while the assassination took place five minutes later. Unlike others who are posting here, you appear to have a somewhat open mind about at least some of these issues. Jack created a "Judyth/Jim" thread to discuss (what we take to be) "errors" in HARVEY & LEE, but when I reposted around 20 prior posts discussing a number of them, he claimed I had "rudely hijacked" his thread, when I thought that I was complying with his wishes. I assumed that he would send them to John Armstrong for an evaluation, but that did not occur. I would be extremely interested in your take on some of the issues that Judyth and I have raised in those posts, which include a blunder about the "index" to the supporting volumes, a feeble witness for "Harvey" having attended the same junior high school as "Lee", the report of "Lee" having lost a tooth but, remarkably, but that Lillian Murret, who was "Harvey"s aunt, paid the dental bill, which dumbfounds me. There are more concerning alleged differences in eye color, photographs that appear to have been manipulated, and misleading calculations based upon other of them. I believe that Judyth has scored some important points that remove some of the props alleged to support the existence of "Harvey" and "Lee". Pat Speer, incidentally, in another thread, when I quoted a passage from HARVEY & LEE about the FBI secretly taking the physical evidence (Lee's belongings) back to Washington to launder it and then bringing it back to Dallas (also in secret), only to pack it up in a car to transport it to Washington for what was officially the "first and only" time, observed that John had misdated the creation of the Warren Commission by a week. These kinds of mistakes do not inspire confidence in HARVEY & LEE. I would like your opinions about the ones reported in "Judyth/Jim". I will invite Judyth's comments on your post, but she is about to travel, so it may be delayed. If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate? REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother? He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more. b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans? Because I am very familiar with Lee's past in New Orleans: he talked of it. Lee did like astronomy and I believe that part. He is alive and is aware of his vulnerabilities as to his testimony. More on this later. c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. [NOTE: Even J. Edgar acknowledge that the photos and audio recording from Mexico City were not those of Lee Harvey Oswald.]== d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. The problem is, there was more than one impersonator, and these impersonators are being neglected or ignored in favor of just one man who cannot be found and who, in fact, does not exist, per se, except in files that had created deep cover for the only and real LHO == e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house? ==Lee was there== f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while LHO was at work in the TSBD? ==He did that, too. You simply assume Lee was 'at work' at TSBD. Remember that the day Lee was arrested, his time card for the day was ALREADY FILLED OUT FOR A FULL 8 HOURS. Yes, it showed him working there for a full day -- 8 hours -- when he was missing from that building not long after the mid-day assassination. You assume he was at the job, but it was a cover job, just as at Reily's. He told me it was even better than at Reily's because there was no time clock to worry about -- everything got filled out by hand.== g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd? ==Do not assume he was always at the TSBD -- it is a fatal assumption== h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO was arrested and taken out the front? ==There were impersonators at the end, from Mexico City on. One impersonator who ran in the the Texas Theater AFTER LHO was already inside==whom the FBI informant at the shoe store then conveniently made sure was reported to the police by the frightened ticket-seller, who burst into tears when she was asked if it was REALLY the same guy that they brought out -- the guy who sold the popcorn shows us that Lee was already inside when Tippit was killed.== i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November? ==Lee owned one and the other was planted, just like the rifle was planted, etc., etc.== e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White? ==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient Traitor" Paine.== f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin? ==Lee owned it. He told me about it early on, along with why he did not get a car in New Orleans... While in Texas, he had laid it aside somewhere because the Texas highway patrol, he told me, had "flagged' it saying he was a 'known communist.' He therefore avoided driving as much as possible... and also did not have the license on him, in case he ever got arrested so he wouldn't ever get beat up by the police. Most of these questions have simple answers when you know what happened... I assume the license was found and returned to the Texas Drivers' License Bureau. Maybe he left it behind at the "YMCA"? Who knows? He old me he left it behind in Texas. I once lost my driver's license and it was returned to the state bureau. (I lived in Texas myself for over 18 years.)== I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming. ==Only if you swallow a theory and ignore a witness who can provide reasonable and sensible answers for you. I have stated, and will again, that there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun circles the earth, when actually, it is the earth that is turning, and the earth itself is actually circling the sun. But medieval thinkers had "the evidence" and it was "overwhelming." But it wasn't true, either.== John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had. ==I wish he had interviewed me. He decided that, because I wasn't pregnant, I could not have posed as Marina. He jumped to conclusions. He missed a witness, based on his assumption that I had to be pregnant if I posed as Marina. He forgot that Marina was all but sequestered. She never went to the French Quarter, for example. And I posed as Marina BEFORE she arrived in New Orleans. Note that when Marina and Ruth Paine visited the French Quarter in late September, before Marina was taken to Irving Texas--at which time she and Lee wept because he told her they probably would never meet again--for Lee and I had planned to marry in Mexico -- (see the 'official version' book MARINA AND LEE). He was soon ordered back to Dallas after the mission he had in Mexico City was called off -- though they'd promised him he could stay. That night just before leaving New Orleans, when Marina and Ruth went to the French Quarter, Lee did not go with them. Lee and I had spent a lot of time in the French Quarter. He did not want to be seen with Marina and Ruth in case somebody might have called out, "Oswald! Where's Marina?" So he did not go with them.They took the kids with them...he stayed behind, by himself...== JVB a) I find this difficult to believe. I would think that if LHO was being run as an agent out of Angleton’s office through the ONI then surely Robert Webster would have been run the same way. Webster defected two weeks before Oswald and then miraculously re-defected two weeks before. There was no attempt to generate records to make it seem that Webster had never gone to the USSR. It was common knowledge, reported in the newspapers, according to him he knew Marina Prusakova, he worked for the RAND Corporation, and there seems no special dispensation afforded upon his return to the U.S.A. like the one you believe was going to be afforded Lee if it wasn’t for his “meddling” mother. It doesn’t add up. Why run an agent and then try to eradicate or alter records to show they didn’t go? I would assume that the USSR would keep their records? Newspaper articles can’t go down the Nineteen –Eighty Four memory hole? People like Guy Banister would still have records. b. Whether Lee worked at Pfisterer is not the issue. I think we can all take it as read that Lee worked there. It is the year that he worked there that is of significance. McBride claims he knew Lee at Pfisterer between December 1957 and May 1958. If this is correct then we have a second Oswald in the Marines during this time period. The Warren Commission dealt with this by pushing back the date of Oswald’s employment to 1956.On the subject of Lee’s interest in astrology, McBride claims that Oswald knew very little about the subject. When he was introduced to William Wulf (President of the New Orleans Astronomy Club), Wulf claims that Oswald knew so little about it that he wondered why he wanted to join. Oswald seemed to use the meeting he attended at Wulf’s house to look through the political books and argue with the other members about communism. The exchanges becoming so heated that Wulf’s father threw him out the house. Wulf also claimed to know Oswald in 1958, not 1956 as per the Warren Commission. c) Is the suggestion here that LHO never went to Mexico City within the currently accepted timeframes? I fully appreciate that he was impersonated by person/persons but when did he go? d) It is the Sport Drome event (Sunday, November 17th) that grabs my attention. Oswald was identified by Garland Slack after Oswald shot up Garland targets whilst “burning up ammunition.” The element of this story that gives it a greater meaning is that Slack was insistent that a guy by the name of Frazier from Irving had brought Lee to the range. Earleen Roberts claimed that Lee didn’t go anywhere that day and its greater importance is that Oswald was supposed to be in Irving over the weekend visiting his kids. e) If it's Lee at Sylvia Odio's house then he can't be going south. So, again, LHO didn’t go to Mexico City? f) The thing that gets me about the Red Bird Air Field situation is this. Wayne January stated that on the morning of 20th November 1963 someone who claims to be Oswald was trying to charter a plane. Yes, you are right, he was supposed to be in the TSBD but if this job was a cover then it’s feasible that he could leave whenever he wanted. The problem I have with this is who was running the cover for him in the TSBD? I am familiar with the work of Richard Gilbride regarding his theory that certain employees in the TSBD were involved in the assassination and I am open to this idea. The spanner in the works is this. On Wednesday 20th of November at 10:30am Ralph Yates picked up a man who he claims was Oswald and took him to the TSBD carrying a package that the “Oswald” stated were “…curtain rods.” So, do we again have two Oswald’s to account for? Assuming there isn’t a third in the TSBD. g) He must have worked there at some point. Even if it’s to maintain a cover you have to be there so people see you actually working. It would appear that this guy spent less time at work than Homer Simpson. Here is John Armstrong’s breakdown of who saw LHO at the TSBD at the described times on November 22nd: 8:00 am --- Wesley Frazier, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, Roy Truly, Jack Dougherty 8:00 am until noon --- William Shelley --- "I saw him periodically all morning" 8:30 am --- Wesley Frazier 9:00 am --- James Jarman 10:00 am --- Roy Lewis, Eddie Piper 11:00 am --- Jack Dougherty, Wesley Frazier 11:30 am --- James Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams 11:50 am --- William Shelley, Danny Arce 12:00 noon --- Jack Dougherty, Eddie Piper 12:15 pm --- Mrs. R.E. Arnold Oswald’s presence in the Jiffy store was at 8:30am. He bought beer resulting in showing his driver license. The store clerk, Fred Moore, claims that he returned at 9:00am to buy some peco brittle. Now,either Fred Moore is mistaken, the TSBD employees are lying or there are two Oswald’s. Multiple people also saw LHO at the Top Ten Records store on Jefferson at 7:30am, this was whilst he was supposedly on his way to the TSBD with BW Frazier. h) Agreed on the points concerning impersonation at the Texas Theater. Although we also have Roger Craig’s sighting of the “double” leaving the TSBD in the Nash Rambler and the other LHO leaving the area by bus and cab. i) There were more than two wallets. j) I would say that’s it’s more than possible that he could drive. But that doesn’t explain the guy driving the Red Ford Falcon. You see, T.F. White saw him sitting in it in a car park a block away from Davis Street. At this point in time Lee Harvey Oswald was already under arrest and on his way to the city jail. k) I would again reiterate that I think it possible he could drive but obviously someone was using his driving license (you suggest Lee didn't carry it) if we are to believe the observations of Fred Moore from the Jiffy Store. I appreciate your replies to my questions Judyth and I will continue to wade through all this information. Oh, and thanks to you Jim for posting it... Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 (edited) JUDYTH RESPONDS TO INTERESTING COMMENTS BY LEE FARLEY Rather to my surprise, Judyth has already sent me comments to post in response to Lee. JUDYTH REPLIES: Lee's comments are in italics, Judyth's remarks in response are in bold or in CAPS. a) I find this difficult to believe. I would think that if LHO was being run as an agent out of Angleton’s office through the ONI then surely Robert Webster would have been run the same way. ==No, if the same pattern is used and an agent 'breaks', they are all in danger of being identified as to their training, options, etc. To use a Russian example, the defector Tasarov, a Russian naval officer, the CIA and HUAC decided not to handle him the same way they would a higher-ranking defector. He never reached the public eye. That is an example I know about and have records about. Now, if HUAC and CIA decide to treat two different Soviet defectors differently, can they not also opt to treat FAKE defectors differently? they have different missions, too. Lee was originally supposed to become a college student, he told me. Instead, he got sent to Minsk.... Here is a nice observation about the times: "In His Defector He Trusted" Gérald Arboit 01-05-2007 "No process is as old and simple as that of intelligence: using a defector to obtain information from the “other side”, especially in the case of a closed political system such as the Soviet Regime. In the first twenty years of the Cold War, the CIA was not very familiar with this game1. Reasons were diverse: its inability to operate in the USSR before 1961, because of the opposition of the State Department; the strong control of the KGB in the Soviet territory, that made it quite impossible for an American to operate freely, and on the Soviet people during Stalin’s era. A logical consequence were the technical programs devised by the CIA to obtain Signal and Image Intelligence data. At the same time, the CIA was the object of many suspicions and attacks in the USA due to the fact that it remained a permanent intelligence agency, even in peacetime. HENCE, WE CANNOT EXPECT ANY TWO FAKE DEFECTORS TO HAVE THE SAME TREATMENT.== Webster defected two weeks before Oswald and then miraculously re-defected two weeks before. There was no attempt to generate records to make it seem that Webster had never gone to the USSR. BUT OSWALD WAS SCHEDULED TO BE USED AGAIN, AS PER PRO-CASRO ACTIVITIES, ETC. YOU CAN CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THAT HE WASN'T BEING FITTED OUT FOR THAT, THOUGH. It was common knowledge, reported in the newspapers, according to him he (Webster) knew Marina Prusakova, he worked for the RAND Corporation, and there seems to have been no special dispensation afforded upon his return to the U.S.A. KNOWING HER AND GETTING A JOB WITH RAND SHOWS YOUR BOY WAS TAKEN CARE OF. AND LEE, TOO, WAS REPORTED ABOUT IN THE PAPERS. HEMMING TOLD ME ABOUT HIS OWN COVER JOB AT A WELDER'S, JUST AS LEE GOT WHEN HE FIRST RETURNED, BUT HEMMING SAID ALL KINDS OF THINGS, RIGHT? LEE HAD SIGNIFICANT MOB CONNECTIONS IN NEW ORLEANS. THE MOB WAS COOPERATING WITH THE CIA RE CUBA. LEE HAD LOTS OF HELP TO GET TO THE USSR AND TO GET OUT AGAIN. I DON'T SEE YOUR BOY RETURNING WITH MARINA AND A BABY. DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES. like the one you believe was going to be afforded Lee if it wasn’t for his “meddling” mother. It doesn’t add up. Why run an agent and then try to eradicate or alter records to show they didn’t go? ==I THINK YOU MISUNDERSTOOD ME. THERE WAS A REACTION TO THE MOM, I BELIEVE, WHICH IS WHY LEE CALLED HER A MEDDLER IN HIS AFFAIRS. BEYOND THAT, THERE WAS NO ATTEMPT TO SHOW HE 'DIDN'T DEFECT' TO THE PUBLIC. NOR DO I HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY RECORDS WERE GENERATED, BUT I THINK I WORDED THAT TOO LOOSELY: I SAID, REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother? He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more. TO REWORD THIS A BIT BETER, I SHOULD PROBABLY HAVE SAID, "HE WOULD BE ABLE TO RESUME A NORMAL LIFE DUE TO RECORDS HE COULD ACCESS THAT MADE IT SEEM HE HAD NEVER GONE TO THE USSR. SPECIFICALLY, THESE WERE GENERATED BEFORE HE DEFECTED TO THE USSR AND BEFORE HE WENT TO TEXAS AND THEN JOINED THE MARINES. HE SAID HE HAD BAD WORK REFERENCES IN NEW ORLEANS THAT INCLUDED EMPLOYMENT WITH ORGANIZED CRIME/MARCELLO ESTABLISHMENTS -- AS RESTAURANTS RUN BY THE MOB -- AND IF HE WAS TO BE USED TO GO INTO CUBA AFTER RETURNING TO THE USSR, HIS MOB CONNECTIONS HAD TO BE TRIVIALIZED FOR HIS SAFETY. HE DID NOT WANT THOSE KINDS OF REFERENCES ON HIS RECORD. HE SAID THOSE RECORDS WERE EXPUNGED. I CONJECTURE THAT SOME OF THE WORK RECORDS I HAVE SEEN DURING THE TIME LEE TOLD ME HE WAS WORKING AS A GOPHER FOR MARCELLO ESTABLISHMENTS, ETC. TOOK THEIR PLACE. I DID NOT MEAN TO IMPLY SOME HUGE OPERATION. HIS MOTHER MESSED THIS UP BECAUSE SHE MADE HIS MAFIA CONNECTIONS VISIBLE -- HER SISTER WAS MARRIED TO ONE OF MARCELLO'S PEOPLE AND WAS WELL KNOWN, THOUGH IT MIGHT NOT BE IN THE RECORDS -- I DON'T KNOW -- HOW CLOSE HE WAS TO MARCELLO, WHO WAS AS ANI-CASTRO AS YOU COULD GET. LEE MADE FRIENDS WITH CUBANS IN THE USSR ON PURPOSE. I would assume that the USSR would keep their records? Newspaper articles can’t go down the Nineteen –Eighty Four memory hole? People like Guy Banister would still have records. -- I HOPE I'VE EXPLAINED THAT THIS WAS NOT EXTENSIVE BUT INVOLVED ONLY SOME UNDESERVED RECORDS HE HAD ERASED OR HIDDEN, UNTIL HIS MOTHER MADE HIS CONNECTIONS A DIFFICULTY FOR HIM AND MAYBE EVEN DANGEROUS, AS HE'D MADE FRIENDS OF CUBANS WHILE IN MINSK. A RECORD OF THAT EXISTS SOMEWHERE BESIDES A PHOTO I HAVE SEEN, SOMEBODY SENT ME A RECORD OF IT AFTER I MENTIONED THIS TO THEM.... b. Whether Lee worked at Pfisterer is not the issue. TO ME, IT MAY WELL BE AN ISSUE. I think we can all take it as read that Lee worked there. I DO NOT TRUST ASPECTS OF McBRIDE'S TESTIMONY. I MAY STAND ALONE ABOUT THAT, BUT THERE ARE ASPECTS THAT DO NOT FIT LEE AT THAT AGE. FIRST OF ALL, ED VOEBEL STATED LEE DID NOT TALK ABOUT COMMUNISM, THAT HE WAS A NORMAL KID READING COMIC BOOKS, PLAYING POOL, ETC., THOUGH HE DID LIKE CLASSICAL MUSIC AND READING A LOT.... I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH McBRIDE ON OTHER THINGS HE SAYS, AS WELL. I DO NOT CONSIDER HIM SUCH A GREAT WITNESS EVEN THOUGH HE IS ALIVE. IT REMINDS ME OF THE PSYCHLOGIST WHO ASSESSED LEE AS BRIGHT NORMAL BUT LONELY, WHO LATER, WHEN THE WC WANTED A SATEMENT, WENT AGAINST WHAT HE'D WRITTEN BACK THEN AND SAID LEE WAS BASICALLY A KILLER READY TO ACT ON IMPULSE. I SEE EVIDENCE IN McBRIDE'S STATEMENTS THAT ARE SIMILARLY TROUBLESOME. I'D LIKE TO CONFRONT HIM FACE TO FACE (AND ALSO CONFRONT RUTH PAINE FACE TO FACE, THAT I'D LOVE TO DO!). It is the year that he worked there that is of significance. McBride claims he knew Lee at Pfisterer between December 1957 and May 1958. If this is correct IT'S NOT. HE SAYS OTHER THINGS THAT SHOW HE DID NOT KNOW THE 'REAL' LHO. then we have a second Oswald in the Marines during this time period. The Warren Commission dealt with this by pushing back the date of Oswald’s employment to 1956. On the subject of Lee’s interest in astrology, NO, THAT IS ASTRONOMY. YES, LEE LIKED ASTRONOMY. YOU MIGHT NOTE IN PHOTOS OF ME, A BIG TELESCOPE IS IN THE BACKGROUND IN ONE PHOTO. MY BOYFRIEND, AL FEEMAN, A REAL CUTE GUY, MADE ME A BIG NEWTONIAN REFLECTOR TELESCOPE. LEE AND I BOTH LIKED ASTRONOMY, SO I KNOW YOUR 'ASTROLOGY' THERE IS WRONG. McBride claims that Oswald knew very little about the subject. THAT IS INCORRECT. HE KNEW THE CONSTELLATIONS, MAJOR GALAXIES AND SO ON BY NAME AND SIGHT. When he was introduced to William Wulf (President of the New Orleans Astronomy Club), Wulf claims that Oswald knew so little about it that he wondered why he wanted to join. PROBABLY BECAUSE HE WANTED TO LEARN ABOUT ASTRONOMY. HOW STRANGE IS THAT? HE HAD NO CHANCE TO SEE STARS IN NEW YORK CITY. HE LISTED ASTRONOMY AS ONE OF HIS INTERESTS IN HIGH SCHOOL, I BELIEVE, JUST AS I DID....JOINING A CLUB IS A VERY GOOD WAY TO LEARN ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF THAT CLUB. Oswald seemed to use the meeting he attended at Wulf’s house to look through the political books and argue with the other members about communism. The exchanges becoming so heated that Wulf’s father threw him out the house. Wulf also claimed to know Oswald in 1958, not 1956 as per the Warren Commission. NONSENSE. LEE SAID HE HAD READ MARX, LENIN, ETC. BUT ALSO THE OHER SIDE OF THE COIN AS WELL -- JEFFERSON AND SO ON -- BUT HE KNEW BETTER THAN TO OPEN HIS MOUTH. QUESTIONED, ED VOEBEL, WHO KNEW LEE WELL, STATED FIRMLY THAT LEE NEVER TALKED OF COMMUNISM AND THAT LEE DIDN'T PICK FIGHTS, HE AVOIDED THEM UNLESS CONFRONTED. VOEBEL SAID HE WAS JUST A KID, NO AGENDA. BUT WE HAVE THIS PSYCHOLOGIST CARRYING ON ABOUT A BELLIGERENT LEE, ETC. [NOTE: I believe that Judyth is indicating that she believes the Oswald Ed Voebel knew by the name of "Lee" is the same man she knew by the name of "Lee" in New Orleans, which appears to be consistent with the fact that Voeble never called him "Harvey" and that Aunt Lilllian paid for his dental bill, where Armstrong, in her view (as I understand it), was mistakenly insisting that the man who lost a tooth (which may have been restored) was the one he calls "LEE" rather than the man she knew in New Orleans, whom he calls "Harvey").] AND WE HAVE McBRIDE'S PAL CHIMING IN. I FIND IT SUSPICIOUSLY 'MADE TO ORDER' TESTIMONY -- ONLY THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK VERY WELL ABOUT THE DATES. I GO ON THE HISTORY LEE GAVE ME AND WHAT VOEBEL HAD TO SAY. NEW ORLEANS WAS SO CORRUPT AT THAT TIME, FBI INFORMANTS ON EVERY CORNER, STOOL PIGEONS EVERYWHERE, MONEY AND BRIBES FLOWING SO FREELY... AND ONCE YOU ARE ON THE RECORD AND YOU ARE STILL ALIVE, YOU HAVE TO STICK TO YOUR TESTIMONY THAT SOMEBODY PAID YOU $100 TO SAY...HE DESCRIBES A LEE OSWALD THAT DIDN'T EXIST AND SHOWS MOTIVES THAT DO NOT MAKE SENSE FOR THE YOUNG LAD -- JOINING AN ASTRONOMY CLUB -- BUT NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT ASTRONOMY --THEY CLAIM THE KID JOINED JUST TO CAUSE TROUBLE AND FIGHT ABOUT POLITICS AND COMMUNISM? AND LEE IS NOT THERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF, SO I WILL, FOR HIM. THIS IS THE SAME YOUNG MAN WHO TOOK ON A PAPER ROUTE TO BUY HIMSELF A CAP UNIFORM SO HE COULD ATTEND CIVIL AIR PATROL MEETINGS -- SAME TIME, SAME PLACE -- A PATRIOTIC ORGANIZATION OF THE HIGHEST ORDER -- AND HE'S PICKING FIGHTS DEFENDING COMMUNISM? USE YOUR HEAD. IT'S NOT TRUE. c) Is the suggestion here that LHO never went to Mexico City within the currently accepted time frames? I fully appreciate that he was impersonated by person/persons but when did he go? I KNOW WHEN HE CROSSED THE BORDER BECAUSE HE CALLED ME JUST BEFORE HE CALLED TWIFORD. (HE SAID HE HAD TO CALL SOMEBODY ELSE --I ASSUME THAT WAS TWIFORD)....DATES SEEM RIGHT... d) It is the Sport Drome event (Sunday, November 17th) that grabs my attention. Oswald was identified by Garland Slack after Oswald shot up Garland targets whilst “burning up ammunition.” The element of this story that gives it a greater meaning is that Slack was insistent that a guy by the name of Frazier from Irving had brought Lee to the range. Earleen Roberts claimed that Lee didn’t go anywhere that day and its greater importance is that Oswald was supposed to be in Irving over the weekend visiting his kids. FRAZIER WAS ALL BUT BLACKMAILED. LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO HM. LOOK THAT HE SAYS TODAY. HE NEVER MENTIONS THAT INCIDENT. FRAZIER'S NAME WAS IN THE PAPERS, TOO... IN A BIG CASE, TIPS AND JUNK COME IN AND POLICE HUNT THEM DOWN AND FIND OUT 50% OF THEM OR MORE ARE FALSE LEADS. I USED TO BE A REPORTER. BUT IN THE OSWALD MATTER, ANY REPORT THAT SHOWS ANGER. HOSTILITY, GUNS, SHOOTING, IS BROUGHT CENTER-FORWARD AS THE GOD-AWFUL TRUTH. e) If it's Lee at Sylvia Odio's house then he can't be going south. So, again, LHO didn’t go to Mexico City? WRONG. HE DIDN'T USE THE BUS TICKET., LOOK AGAIN AND NOTE IT WAS USED ONLY IN A RETURN SECTION. AND IT WASN'T LEE WHO USED THE PORTION RETURNING TO NEW ORLEANS, THIS THEY NEVER MENTION....LEE DIDN'T GO BY BUS. HE WASN'T ON THAT BUS AND YOU WILL FIND NO WITNESSES TO IT. HE DID BOARD A BUS TO CROSS THE BORDER. WC ASSUMED THAT HE DIDN'T FLY. WRONG. f) The thing that gets me about the Red Bird Air Field situation is this. Wayne January stated that on the morning of 20th November 1963 someone who claims to be Oswald was trying to charter a plane. Yes, you are right, he was supposed to be in the TSBD but if this job was a cover then it’s feasible that he could leave whenever he wanted. The problem I have with this is who was running the cover for him in the TSBD? I am familiar with the work of Richard Gilbride regarding his theory that certain employees in the TSBD were involved in the assassination and I am open to this idea. The spanner in the works is this. On Wednesday 20th of November at 10:30am Ralph Yates picked up a man who he claims was Oswald and took him to the TSBD carrying a package that the “Oswald” stated were “…curtain rods.” So, do we have again have two Oswald’s to account for? Assuming there isn’t a third in the TSBD. ==I WASN'T THERE. BUT I KNOW LEE SAID HE WOULD NOT BE CARRYING A FIREARM BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE AN EXCUSE TO SHOOT HIM DEAD, IN HIS OPINION. I HAVE TOUGHT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES. IT IS JUST POSSIBLE THAT LEE CARRIED A PACKAGE INTO THE TSBD THAT WOULD RESEMBLE A WRAPPED RIFLE, SO THAT ANYONE LOOKING TO SEE IF HE DID BRING A WEAPON, AS HE HAD PERHAPS BEEN ORDERED TO DO, WOULD BE SATISFIED THAT HE COMPLIED. BUT IT WAS CURTAIN RODS. I HAVE CONSIDERED THE TWO CURTAIN ROD INCIDENT AND SPECULATE -- JUST SPECULATE -- THAT HE COULD HAVE CLAIMED HE BROUGHT THE RIFLE IN DISASSEMBLED, IN TWO PARTS -- ONE PART WEDNESDAY, THE OTHER FRIDAY -- AND OBSERVORS WOULD THINK HE COMPLIED. BUT THEY WERE 'CURTAIN RODS' TO OUSIDERS -- AND IN FACT, THEY ACTUALLY 'WERE' CURTAIN RODS....JUST SPECULATION, I WASN'T THERE.== g) He must have worked there at some point. Even if it’s to maintain a cover you have to be there so people see you actually working. It would appear that this guy spent less time at work than Homer Simpson. ==THAT WAS CERTAINLY TRUE AT REILY'S. WITH THE FACTORY AND THE REILY OFFICES TO MAINTAIN -- LEE WAS NOT JUST A 'GREASER' AS THE WC HAS IT -- ADRIAN ALBA MENTIONS HE WORE AN ELECTRICIAN'S BELT--BECAUSE LEE COULD BE ANYWHERE PUTTING IN A LIGHTBULB, CLEANING OUT ROASTERS, OUTSIDE FIXING A BURNED-OUT LAMP, FIXING SOMETHING ON THE ASSEMBLY LINE MACHINES -- OVER IN THE OFFICE BUILDING CHECKING AN OUTLET THAT DIDN'T WORK -- HE WAS A MAINTENANCE MAN, NOT A GREASER, AND SO IT WAS HARD TO KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT REILY'S. ONCE WE EVEN KIDDED AND SAID WE SENT HIM OVER TO HELP OUT AS AN OILER ON A CRANE AT THE NEW RIELY FACTORY UNDER CONSTRUCTION BECAUSE HE HAD TO BE GONE ALL DAY AND WE HAD TO CONCOCT AN EXCUSE FOR HIM. AS FOR THE TSBD, IT WAS HECTIC THERE BECAUSE THEY WERE PUTTING IN NEW FLOORS, ALL KINDS OF REFURBISHING GOING ON, AND THE TSBD WAS JUST ONE COMPANY IN THE BUILDING....MR. TRULY, HOWEVER, KNEW LEE HAD 'OTHER' WORK TO DO, AND LEE'S TIMESHEETS WERE FILLED OUT FOR FULL TIME WHETHER HE WAS THERE OR NOT, AS THE FILLED-OUT SHEET FOR NOV. 22, 1963 PROVES. AS FOR WHO WOULD MISS HIM, HE WAS A NEW WORKER AND KEPT TO HIMSELF AND ATE LUNCH ALONE SO THAT PEOPLE SIMPLY NEVER MISSED HIM ANYWAY. Here is John Armstrong’s breakdown of who saw LHO at the TSBD at the described times on November 22nd: NOW, ON THE 22ND, THAT WAS DIFFERENT--LEE WAS THERE...AND I'M SUR EHE WAS 'THERE' MORE THAN OUT AS A RULE, JUST AS AT REILY'S...ON THAT DAY, OF ALL DAYS, HE WAS WHERE HE WAS TOLD TO BE --OBVIOUSLY AT THE TSBD -- HE DID TELL ME HE DID NOT KNOW WHERE HE MIGHT BE ASKED TO GO 'FOR LUNCH' -- MEANING FOR THE ASSASSINATION.... 8:00 am --- Wesley Frazier, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, Roy Truly, Jack Dougherty 8:00 am until noon --- William Shelley --- "I saw him periodically all morning" 8:30 am --- Wesley Frazier 9:00 am --- James Jarman 10:00 am --- Roy Lewis, Eddie Piper 11:00 am --- Jack Dougherty, Wesley Frazier 11:30 am --- James Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams 11:50 am --- William Shelley, Danny Arce 12:00 noon --- Jack Dougherty, Eddie Piper 12:15 pm --- Mrs. R.E. Arnold Oswald’s presence in the Jiffy store was at 8:30am. He bought beer resulting in showing his driver license. The store clerk Fred Moore claims that he returned at 9:00am to buy some peco brittle. Now, either Fred Moore is mistaken, the TSBD employees are lying or there are two Oswald’s. WELL, YOU HAVE TO BE RIGHT...THIS WAS THE BIG DAY, ANYTHING COULD HAVE BEEN IN THE WORKS TO IMPLICATE LEE OSWALD. BY NOW THE 'OTHER' OSWALD IS DEFNITELY AROUND, JUST AS WE HAVE THE PROBLEMS IN MEXICO CIY WHERE THEY WANT TO FRAME HIM -- AND HERE, TOO...I'M SORRY, I THOUGHT THE BRITLE THING WAS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT OCCURRED ON SUNDAY NIGHT BEFORE...AND FROM A DIFFERENT WITNESS....I SHOULD HAVE READ MORE CAREFULLY, AND APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. OF COURSE, THERE ARE MULTIPLE PEOPLE POSING AS OSWALD NEAR THE END. IT IS OBVIOUS. MY CONTENTION IS THAT THIS DID NOT START WITH 13-YEAR-OLD BOYS. AND ALSO, THERE IS NO LEE OSWALD LIVING WITH MARINA ON WEEKDAYS AND A HARVEY WITH HER ON WEEKENDS, AND ALL OF THAT. Multiple people also saw LHO at the Top Ten Records store on Jefferson at 7:30am, whilst he was driving to the TSBD with BW Frazier. WELL, I AGREE...THIS IS LATE IN THE GAME AND PLANS HAVE BEEN CAREFULLY LAID TO IMPLICATE LHO. h) Agreed on the points concerning impersonation at the Texas Theater. Although we also have Roger Craig’s sighting of the “double” leaving the TSBD in the Nash Rambler and the other LHO leaving the area by bus and cab. ==THE CAB DRIVER HAD TO BE CHANGED WEN THE FIRST CAB DRIVER'S ROUTE DID NOT PAN OUT...THE BUS TRANSFER TICKET WAS SMOOTH AND UNWRINKLED, PLANTED MATERIAL....LEE SAID 'LEAVE PAINE OUT OF THIS' ABOUT THE CAR -- LEE SAID STATION WAGON -- HE SAID PAINE'S NAME, NOT TO LEAVE HER OUT BUT TO SHOW SHE WAS INVOLVED. HE KNEW SHE WAS BAD AND HE BROUGHT UP HER NAME ON PURPOSE. THE BLEDSOE INCIDENT ON THE BUS IS A FARCE. IN SHORT, THEY DID NOT DARE SAY OSWALD ESCAPED BY CAR BECAUSE THE CAR IS THE SAME COLOR AS PAINE'S. UH-OH!== i) There were more than two wallets. ==ONE PLANTED--WE KNOW THE HIDELL THINGIE IS CONCOCTED THE WAY IT IS REPORTED== j) I would say that’s it’s more than possible that he could drive. But that doesn’t explain the guy driving the Red Ford Falcon. You see, T.F. White saw him sitting in it in a car park a block away from Davis Street. At this point in time Lee HarveyOswald was already under arrest and on his way to the city jail. ==THE INCIDENT HAPPENED TWO WEEKS EARLIER...THE LHO LOOKALIKE WHO WAS PROBABLY ARRESTED AT THE TEXAS THEATER AND LET GO, ONCE OUT OF SIGHT OF THE FRONT DOORS, GOT IN HIS CAR AND WAS WAITING FOR HIS OWN SIGNAL TO LEAVE TOWN...JUST A THOUGHT== k) I would again reiterate that I think it possible he could drive but obviously someone was using his driving license if we are to believe the observations of Fred Moore from the Jiffy Store. NO, BY THIS TIME THE REAL LICENSE WAS IN THE TEXAS RECORDS DEPARTMENT, AS TESTIFIED TO BY AN EMPLOYEE THERE. (WE HAVE HER RECORDS, SHE IS A REAL PERSON) -- BECAUSE IT WAS PULLED AND LOCATED THERE AFTER LEE WAS SHOT AND KILLED. THAT WAS MONDAY AFTER THE SOOTING. THE LICENSE WAS NOT PLANTED WITHIN A FEW HOURS -- ON FRIDAY -- THAT WOULD BE A BIG RISK -- THE AGENCY WAS NOT OPEN ON WEEKENDS---SO THE OTHER LICENSE WAS A FAKE, ALONG WITH THE FAKE OSWALD. I appreciate your replies to my questions Judyth and I will continue to wade through all this information. HEY, I WAS NOT IN DALLAS AND JUST HAVE TO GO ON THE PERSON I KNEW AND COMMON SENSE -- AND THE RECORDS....THANK YOU FOR YOUR POLITENESS AND GOOD QUESTIONS. I CANT POST HERE ANYMORE FOR QUITE AWHILE -- THANKS JIM, FOR EVERYTHING! -- BECAUSE I'M GOING TO BE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY. IT TAKES A LONG TME TO GET MY INTERNET CONNECTION THERE AND I CANNOT GO TO AN INTERNET CAFE. IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE TALKING TO YOU, LEE. IT'S ALL I HAD ASKED FOR ON THIS FORM, TO BE ASKED QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF CHALLENGED AS TO MY INTEGRITY AND TALKED ABOUT -- I HOPE I DID NOT SOUND NEGATIVE AT ANY TIME. THE WEIGHT OF YEARS OBSCURES MEMORIES, BUT I ALSO HAVE A SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEM SO I HAVE TO READ THINGS OVER MORE THAN ONCE -- WITH BAD EYES -- DID THE BEST I COULD. I FEEL YOU ARE THAT WAY, TOO. BYE, LEE! JVB If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate? REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother? He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more. b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans? Because I am very familiar with Lee's past in New Orleans: he talked of it. Lee did like astronomy and I believe that part. He is alive and is aware of his vulnerabilities as to his testimony. More on this later. c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. [NOTE: Even J. Edgar acknowledge that the photos and audio recording from Mexico City were not those of Lee Harvey Oswald.]== d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination? ==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. The problem is, there was more than one impersonator, and these impersonators are being neglected or ignored in favor of just one man who cannot be found and who, in fact, does not exist, per se, except in files that had created deep cover for the only and real LHO == e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house? ==Lee was there== f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while LHO was at work in the TSBD? ==He did that, too. You simply assume Lee was 'at work' at TSBD. Remember that the day Lee was arrested, his time card for the day was ALREADY FILLED OUT FOR A FULL 8 HOURS. Yes, it showed him working there for a full day -- 8 hours -- when he was missing from that building not long after the mid-day assassination. You assume he was at the job, but it was a cover job, just as at Reily's. He told me it was even better than at Reily's because there was no time clock to worry about -- everything got filled out by hand.== g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd? ==Do not assume he was always at the TSBD -- it is a fatal assumption== h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO was arrested and taken out the front? ==There were impersonators at the end, from Mexico City on. One impersonator who ran in the the Texas Theater AFTER LHO was already inside==whom the FBI informant at the shoe store then conveniently made sure was reported to the police by the frightened ticket-seller, who burst into tears when she was asked if it was REALLY the same guy that they brought out -- the guy who sold the popcorn shows us that Lee was already inside when Tippit was killed.== i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November? ==Lee owned one and the other was planted, just like the rifle was planted, etc., etc.== e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White? ==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient Traitor" Paine.== f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin? ==Lee owned it. He told me about it early on, along with why he did not get a car in New Orleans... While in Texas, he had laid it aside somewhere because the Texas highway patrol, he told me, had "flagged' it saying he was a 'known communist.' He therefore avoided driving as much as possible... and also did not have the license on him, in case he ever got arrested so he wouldn't ever get beat up by the police. Most of these questions have simple answers when you know what happened... I assume the license was found and returned to the Texas Drivers' License Bureau. Maybe he left it behind at the "YMCA"? Who knows? He old me he left it behind in Texas. I once lost my driver's license and it was returned to the state bureau. (I lived in Texas myself for over 18 years.)== I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming. ==Only if you swallow a theory and ignore a witness who can provide reasonable and sensible answers for you. I have stated, and will again, that there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun circles the earth, when actually, it is the earth that is turning, and the earth itself is actually circling the sun. But medieval thinkers had "the evidence" and it was "overwhelming." But it wasn't true, either.== John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had. ==I wish he had interviewed me. He decided that, because I wasn't pregnant, I could not have posed as Marina. He jumped to conclusions. He missed a witness, based on his assumption that I had to be pregnant if I posed as Marina. He forgot that Marina was all but sequestered. She never went to the French Quarter, for example. And I posed as Marina BEFORE she arrived in New Orleans. Note that when Marina and Ruth Paine visited the French Quarter in late September, before Marina was taken to Irving Texas -- at which time she and Lee wept because he told her they probably would never meet again -- for Lee and I had planned to marry in Mexico -- (see the 'official version' book MARINA AND LEE). He was soon ordered back to Dallas after the mission he had in Mexico City was called off -- though they'd promised him he could stay. That night just before leaving New Orleans, when Marina and Ruth went to the French Quarter, Lee did not go with them. Lee and I had spent a lot of time in the French Quarter. He did not want to be seen with Marina and Ruth in case somebody might have called out, "Oswald! Where's Marina?" So he did not go with them.They took the kids with them...he stayed behind, by himself...== JVB a) I find this difficult to believe. I would think that if LHO was being run as an agent out of Angleton’s office through the ONI then surely Robert Webster would have been run the same way. Webster defected two weeks before Oswald and then miraculously re-defected two weeks before. There was no attempt to generate records to make it seem that Webster had never gone to the USSR. It was common knowledge, reported in the newspapers, according to him he knew Marina Prusakova, he worked for the RAND Corporation, and there seems no special dispensation afforded upon his return to the U.S.A. like the one you believe was going to be afforded Lee if it wasn’t for his “meddling” mother. It doesn’t add up. Why run an agent and then try to eradicate or alter records to show they didn’t go? I would assume that the USSR would keep their records? Newspaper articles can’t go down the Nineteen –Eighty Four memory hole? People like Guy Banister would still have records. b. Whether Lee worked at Pfisterer is not the issue. I think we can all take it as read that Lee worked there. It is the year that he worked there that is of significance. McBride claims he knew Lee at Pfisterer between December 1957 and May 1958. If this is correct then we have a second Oswald in the Marines during this time period. The Warren Commission dealt with this by pushing back the date of Oswald’s employment to 1956.On the subject of Lee’s interest in astrology, McBride claims that Oswald knew very little about the subject. When he was introduced to William Wulf (President of the New Orleans Astronomy Club), Wulf claims that Oswald knew so little about it that he wondered why he wanted to join. Oswald seemed to use the meeting he attended at Wulf’s house to look through the political books and argue with the other members about communism. The exchanges becoming so heated that Wulf’s father threw him out the house. Wulf also claimed to know Oswald in 1958, not 1956 as per the Warren Commission. c) Is the suggestion here that LHO never went to Mexico City within the currently accepted timeframes? I fully appreciate that he was impersonated by person/persons but when did he go? d) It is the Sport Drome event (Sunday, November 17th) that grabs my attention. Oswald was identified by Garland Slack after Oswald shot up Garland targets whilst “burning up ammunition.” The element of this story that gives it a greater meaning is that Slack was insistent that a guy by the name of Frazier from Irving had brought Lee to the range. Earleen Roberts claimed that Lee didn’t go anywhere that day and its greater importance is that Oswald was supposed to be in Irving over the weekend visiting his kids. e) If it's Lee at Sylvia Odio's house then he can't be going south. So, again, LHO didn’t go to Mexico City? f) The thing that gets me about the Red Bird Air Field situation is this. Wayne January stated that on the morning of 20th November 1963 someone who claims to be Oswald was trying to charter a plane. Yes, you are right, he was supposed to be in the TSBD but if this job was a cover then it’s feasible that he could leave whenever he wanted. The problem I have with this is who was running the cover for him in the TSBD? I am familiar with the work of Richard Gilbride regarding his theory that certain employees in the TSBD were involved in the assassination and I am open to this idea. The spanner in the works is this. On Wednesday 20th of November at 10:30am Ralph Yates picked up a man who he claims was Oswald and took him to the TSBD carrying a package that the “Oswald” stated were “…curtain rods.” So, do we again have two Oswald’s to account for? Assuming there isn’t a third in the TSBD. g) He must have worked there at some point. Even if it’s to maintain a cover you have to be there so people see you actually working. It would appear that this guy spent less time at work than Homer Simpson. Here is John Armstrong’s breakdown of who saw LHO at the TSBD at the described times on November 22nd: 8:00 am --- Wesley Frazier, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, Roy Truly, Jack Dougherty 8:00 am until noon --- William Shelley --- "I saw him periodically all morning" 8:30 am --- Wesley Frazier 9:00 am --- James Jarman 10:00 am --- Roy Lewis, Eddie Piper 11:00 am --- Jack Dougherty, Wesley Frazier 11:30 am --- James Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams 11:50 am --- William Shelley, Danny Arce 12:00 noon --- Jack Dougherty, Eddie Piper 12:15 pm --- Mrs. R.E. Arnold Oswald’s presence in the Jiffy store was at 8:30am. He bought beer resulting in showing his driver license. The store clerk, Fred Moore, claims that he returned at 9:00am to buy some peco brittle. Now,either Fred Moore is mistaken, the TSBD employees are lying or there are two Oswald’s. Multiple people also saw LHO at the Top Ten Records store on Jefferson at 7:30am, this was whilst he was supposedly on his way to the TSBD with BW Frazier. h) Agreed on the points concerning impersonation at the Texas Theater. Although we also have Roger Craig’s sighting of the “double” leaving the TSBD in the Nash Rambler and the other LHO leaving the area by bus and cab. i) There were more than two wallets. j) I would say that’s it’s more than possible that he could drive. But that doesn’t explain the guy driving the Red Ford Falcon. You see, T.F. White saw him sitting in it in a car park a block away from Davis Street. At this point in time Lee Harvey Oswald was already under arrest and on his way to the city jail. k) I would again reiterate that I think it possible he could drive but obviously someone was using his driving license (you suggest Lee didn't carry it) if we are to believe the observations of Fred Moore from the Jiffy Store. I appreciate your replies to my questions Judyth and I will continue to wade through all this information. Oh, and thanks to you Jim for posting it... Lee Edited April 13, 2010 by James H. Fetzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Now that JVB says this is HER LAST POSTING, I cannot help but make the comment that somebody else seems to have researched and written some of her postings, unless Jim has been doing FAR more editing and rewriting than I thought. Often, the style and pace of writing is far more complex and precisely worded than her earlier "stream of consciousness" ramblings. I remain suspicious regarding whether she is the actual author of all these hundreds of postings. (sorry if I miscount...it seems like thousands) IF her book is ever published, maybe the target will stand still long enough for people to make informed analyses. I could make other more specific comments, but I will refrain. It is not worth the trouble. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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