The Snipers Nest

[John Dolva]

The hope here is to do a comprehensive study of what is known as the ''Snipers Nest'', traditionally placed at the south east corner on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building.

A primary issue will be as exact a reconstruction of it as possible, hopefully followed by a three dimensional model which can be turned in all sorts of ways to get views of it from inside and out. This is going to require a look at all photos taken of it and diagrams made etc but using the photographic data to reconstruct it and check the various arguments for it having the possibility of being a snipe location without necessarily discussing the medical data.

It may provide a banchmark that can be used to test the veracity of a number of other issues.

_______________

But: meanwhile I'd like to share a thought.

over time, like the sediments settling in a river, detritus continually drift down making layers depending on what is in the drift, dust, skin particles, which the body continually sheds, spit, tobacco...spent gunpowde residue etc. Archaeologists and Geologists look at these layers and through various dating methods work out various things. Tounge and groove flooring has gaps of various sizes, often widening over time, In industrial situations the tendency is to sweep and or mop the floors. Could it be, that it is possible, to get a cross section of this in the area in question and locate 11/22/63?

The technology surely exists.

Does the layering exist?

If so, does it contain any traces of spent gunpowde residuer? DNA?

__________________

edit add: link to topic relevant information:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=191207

edit:one freuduan slip and a couple of stupidities

edit:typo

Edited April 29, 2010 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

There are a few photos that are particularly important, all the ones showing the pipes and the window as it was, and a rarer one which shows a near straight on view of the window and the area around it taken some 2.5 pillars back. Also, if there are any, any that show the sixth floor roof and the fifth floor roof.

________

re the layering. If that was covered and the building area heavily patronaged for a time then extended periods of lockdown with breaks then the pertinent layers would be realatively thick and identifiable, eg Cellulose for a time ceased to be a major air component. All that's really necessary is a fine cut thin cross section of this area.

edit:edit

Edited April 29, 2010 by John Dolva

[Bernice Moore]

THERE ARE A FEW HERE THAT SHOW PART OF THE CEILING AND TAKEN FROM IN FRONT OF THE PILLARS...I HAVE ONE SHOWING THE WHOLE EMPTY 6TH FLOOR EMPTY FOR RENOVATIONS BUT THE UPLOAD IT TOO LARGE I WILL TRY TO MAKE IT SMALLER...SOME FOR NOW..B

[Bernice Moore]

FROM JOHN WOODS ORIGINALLY THANKS, EMPTY 6TH FLOOR FOR RENOVATIONS...B

THERE IS SOME INFO IN MANCHESTER'S ''DEATH OF A PRESIDENT'' ON THE 6TH FLOOR...PAGE 115 IS QUITE INTERESTING AS A START...

Edited April 30, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[William Kelly]

There is a scale model of the sixth floor, complete with minature boxes that was made for the Warren Commission, as I've seen a photo of it.

There is also a forum member from Europe who makes 3D scale computerized drawing who is working on a scene of the 2nd floor landing/lunchroom.

And B., where is the drawing of the second floor landing from?

The caption is certainly not from the Warren Commission.

BK

Edited April 30, 2010 by William Kelly

[John Dolva]

Thank you very much for those Bernice.

There are some important identifiers there. The orientation of the tounge and groove flooring: oblique angle for the nest, straight n-s on what seems to be the fifth floor,. The pipes running under the floor joists/rafters pependicular to them. A couple of angled shots of the vertical pipes, allowing for the beginning of a triangulation of their location. Shots of other windows can be id'd from these indicators: flooring, roof, piping... , a closeup of the pipes indicating their non straightness, ie the location of them on the floor is not an indicator of where they are, say a meter, above the floor, the shape of the lintel... . Plus there are a number of other interesting things to see there.(shifting sash window opening for example).

It's good that it is an industrial building with evenly spaced objects like rafters, flooring, pillars etc. That, plus the brick/mortar dimensions as a unit of measurement, the evenly sized boxes...etc.

edit add: William I presume you mean Martin? If this can provide the necessary Data, then perhaps he would have a go at recreating this corner as well. It'll be interesting to compare to such things as the WC reconstruction and any other reconstructions.

edit typos

Edited April 30, 2010 by John Dolva

[John Simkin]

Members reading this thread should take a look at this excellent article by Tony Austin:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15845

[William Kelly]

THERE ARE A FEW HERE THAT SHOW PART OF THE CEILING AND TAKEN FROM IN FRONT OF THE PILLARS...I HAVE ONE SHOWING THE WHOLE EMPTY 6TH FLOOR EMPTY FOR RENOVATIONS BUT THE UPLOAD IT TOO LARGE I WILL TRY TO MAKE IT SMALLER...SOME FOR NOW..B

Bernice, Where is the sketch of the Second Floor landing from?

Thanks,

BK

[Bernice Moore]

BILL RECALL THE BOOK YOU QUOTED AND LINKED TO WHEN YOU BEGAN YOUR OSWALD IS INNOCENT LONG THREAD, WHICH DOES NOT COME UP FOR ME ON A SEARCH DARN, THE BOOK WAS WRITTEN BY A VERY YOUNG MAN AT THE TIME, THE BASIC SKETCH I BELIEVE IS IN THAT BOOK, THE BOOK IS ALSO FREE ON THE WEB BUT I CANNOT FIND IT, AS MY GREY CELLS REFUSE TO GRANT ME THE NAME OF SAID BOOK TODAY, ONE OF THOSE, I AM THINKING THAT MARTIN HINDRICHS OR ANOTHER OF THE FELLAS AT DUNCAN'S FORUM, TOOK IT AND RESEARCHED IMPROVING ON IT GREATLY THAT IS WHERE I OBTAINED A COPY..MARTIN ?? BILL DID YOU NOT GET MY RETURN EMAIL ?? best b

LAWDY I FOUND IT WILL....

"PRESUMED GUILTY, How and why the Warren Commission framed Lee Harvey Oswald. Factual account based on the Commission's public and private documents", by Howard Roffman 1976

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/

SHEESH...B

THE MAP IS IN THE BOOK BUT NOT THAT I CAN FIND IN THE ON LINE BOOK...http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/PGchp8.html

MARTIN OR DUNCAN CAN YOU HELP US OUT HERE With THIS MAP PoSTED and by whom on your site...many thanks...b

OSWALDS ACTIONS AFTER CHAPTER

Edited May 1, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Robin Unger]

John

Search through the photos.

Keep clicking on the photos until it takes you to the "VERY LARGE VERSIONS" of each image.

LARGE DPD PHOTOS

[Robin Unger]

John

Search through the photos.

Keep clicking on the photos until it takes you to the "VERY LARGE VERSIONS" of each image.

LARGE DPD PHOTOS

Sample Image ( click here )

[John Dolva]

thank you Robin. Will do. As often., I try to slow down these studies and deal with the fundamentals to start. So, access to this repository is much appreciated.

I'm still contemplating various matters. For example, in the great collection of photos Bernice supplied there seems to be an inconsistency of which direction the floor boards ran and what seems to be a reconstruction of the nest, or is it? There are other matters, but the initial gathering of data and exchanging of thoughts can then guide the use of that data. I don't know what the outcome will be, but I have my suspisions which I'm ready to shift on. Any thoughts, data pointers, multiple discussions (but not too many please. I reckon 3-5 is quite manageable allround). welcome.

[William Kelly]

MARTIN OR DUNCAN CAN YOU HELP US OUT HERE With THIS MAP PoSTED and by whom on your site...many thanks...b

OSWALDS ACTIONS AFTER CHAPTER

Hi Bernice, Miles has requested that I post this link for more information for you.

Click for more info.

Thanks B., Miles, Malcolm, et al.

There's some interesting analysis of this 12:31-2 PM events on the second floor landing.

This also dovetails not only with the analysis of the Sniper's nest and what is going on there at the same time, but with the Secret Service recreations, which included complete motorcade, filming from the Sniper's Nest and a half-hearted attempt to follow the assassin from the Sniper's Nest to the second floor lunchroom door, where the Secret Service re-enactment of the crime suddenly ends. They too must have realied at this point that if Baker did see Oswald through that glass window the door, as it was when Truley passed it a moment earlier, and was closed when Oswald entered the vestibule from the south door and was seen by Baker walking past the window in the closed door.

They even called Truley back to the Old Post Office to re-testify and answer one question - was there an automatic door closer on that door? And the answer was yes.

The door was closed, Oswald didn't pass through that door, and he didn't desend the stairs from the Sixth Floor Sniper's Nest.

Now back to the Sniper's Nest, and whoever was there.

BK

[John Dolva]

Yeah, but these related matters provide an extra dimension to the study. I've got this wierd feeling that some of what we know as the snipers best is not the snipers nest (anyway you want to look at it. I still haven't looked through all the pictures yet (by far) and keep pondering what may end up being a waste of time, or a breakthrough, and every day approaching it with a new idea of how to glean exact information from the photos so that there is no need for anyone to measure a brick!!! .

Meanwhile other thoughts pertain to the protocol to use in evaluation in order to arrive at as correct a solution as possible, and: to recognise when it is so.

adit:typo

Edited May 3, 2010 by John Dolva

[Bernice Moore]

THANKS BILL AND MILES... B