Captain Fritz and the spent cartridges

[Mike Williams]

Lee,

I still wonder if in fact Fritz was in the building when the casings were found. Really though it was needless to the original point. Alyea was not on the sixth floor when the casings were found, as he claimed to have been.

I would wonder why Mooney says he saw Fritz on the ground if in fact Fritz was in the building?

he stated that in his WC testimony, and in the call with me two years ago. Is it possible he is mistaken, sure it is. Is it just as possible others are, of course.

I just refuse to put a sinister turn on something causing a mistake to be called a lie, until there is an intention placed on it. If it is made to intentionally mislead then by all means, but to what end would this lie serve purpose? None None at all. If he was incorrect, and he may well be, it certainly does not mean he lied intentionally.

As for my doing my homework, What I was examining had little to do with where Fritz was, or was not. I simply asked for and received clarification about the placement of the casings.

Had you done your homework, as I said you would realize that Alyea was mistaken about being on the 6th when the casings were found, which was the whole point I was making.

Mike,

It gets Fritz away from the snipers nest in the immediate minutes following the discovery of the shells. If he's not there he can't tamper with them.

Lee

I hardly think that he would really have to lie about that. As it stands we have film footage from Alyea of Fritz entering the TSBD. If this is the case then Alyea had to enter after Fritz. So then to do we have Gerald Hill saying he yelled down to the ground as well, and then shortly after he heard Fritz et al coming up in the freight elevator.

I think it is plausible that Fritz may have been still on the ground when they were found.

Basically what we have is crime scene photos that Mooney says are consistent with what he saw. This is completely contradictory to Craig who said they were all neat in a row, and Alyea who says they could be covered by a hand towel. I might also note that not even Alyea seems to agree with Craig.

Mike

[Tony Austin]

Lee,

I still wonder if in fact Fritz was in the building when the casings were found. Really though it was needless to the original point. Alyea was not on the sixth floor when the casings were found, as he claimed to have been.

I would wonder why Mooney says he saw Fritz on the ground if in fact Fritz was in the building?

he stated that in his WC testimony, and in the call with me two years ago. Is it possible he is mistaken, sure it is. Is it just as possible others are, of course.

I just refuse to put a sinister turn on something causing a mistake to be called a lie, until there is an intention placed on it. If it is made to intentionally mislead then by all means, but to what end would this lie serve purpose? None None at all. If he was incorrect, and he may well be, it certainly does not mean he lied intentionally.

As for my doing my homework, What I was examining had little to do with where Fritz was, or was not. I simply asked for and received clarification about the placement of the casings.

Had you done your homework, as I said you would realize that Alyea was mistaken about being on the 6th when the casings were found, which was the whole point I was making.

Mike,

It gets Fritz away from the snipers nest in the immediate minutes following the discovery of the shells. If he's not there he can't tamper with them.

Lee

I hardly think that he would really have to lie about that. As it stands we have film footage from Alyea of Fritz entering the TSBD. If this is the case then Alyea had to enter after Fritz. So then to do we have Gerald Hill saying he yelled down to the ground as well, and then shortly after he heard Fritz et al coming up in the freight elevator.

I think it is plausible that Fritz may have been still on the ground when they were found.

Basically what we have is crime scene photos that Mooney says are consistent with what he saw. This is completely contradictory to Craig who said they were all neat in a row, and Alyea who says they could be covered by a hand towel. I might also note that not even Alyea seems to agree with Craig.

Mike

Mike

If Fritz got to the TBSD at 12:58PM then I think it conceivable that Alyea could get the footage of Fritz entering, follow him in, Fritz stops on most of the floors then goes to the 7th. Alyea is then on the 6th. The casings are found at 1:15PM. Fritz comes down from the 7th floor 1:16PM-1:17PM.

Mike - have you seen any affidavits from Luke Mooney about his discovery? I've looked in the DPD files and there is zilch for Mooney.

Lee

Lee,

I could not find an affidavit from Mooney but I did find a brief report he wrote dated the day after the assassination that you might find interesting and, sorry to say, it will probably provoke more arguments!

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/mooney1.htm

Tony

Edited May 24, 2010 by Tony Austin

[Mike Williams]

Lee,

I still wonder if in fact Fritz was in the building when the casings were found. Really though it was needless to the original point. Alyea was not on the sixth floor when the casings were found, as he claimed to have been.

I would wonder why Mooney says he saw Fritz on the ground if in fact Fritz was in the building?

he stated that in his WC testimony, and in the call with me two years ago. Is it possible he is mistaken, sure it is. Is it just as possible others are, of course.

I just refuse to put a sinister turn on something causing a mistake to be called a lie, until there is an intention placed on it. If it is made to intentionally mislead then by all means, but to what end would this lie serve purpose? None None at all. If he was incorrect, and he may well be, it certainly does not mean he lied intentionally.

As for my doing my homework, What I was examining had little to do with where Fritz was, or was not. I simply asked for and received clarification about the placement of the casings.

Had you done your homework, as I said you would realize that Alyea was mistaken about being on the 6th when the casings were found, which was the whole point I was making.

Mike,

It gets Fritz away from the snipers nest in the immediate minutes following the discovery of the shells. If he's not there he can't tamper with them.

Lee

I hardly think that he would really have to lie about that. As it stands we have film footage from Alyea of Fritz entering the TSBD. If this is the case then Alyea had to enter after Fritz. So then to do we have Gerald Hill saying he yelled down to the ground as well, and then shortly after he heard Fritz et al coming up in the freight elevator.

I think it is plausible that Fritz may have been still on the ground when they were found.

Basically what we have is crime scene photos that Mooney says are consistent with what he saw. This is completely contradictory to Craig who said they were all neat in a row, and Alyea who says they could be covered by a hand towel. I might also note that not even Alyea seems to agree with Craig.

Mike

Mike

If Fritz got to the TBSD at 12:58PM then I think it conceivable that Alyea could get the footage of Fritz entering, follow him in, Fritz stops on most of the floors then goes to the 7th. Alyea is then on the 6th. The casings are found at 1:15PM. Fritz comes down from the 7th floor 1:16PM-1:17PM.

Mike - have you seen any affidavits from Luke Mooney about his discovery? I've looked in the DPD files and there is zilch for Mooney.

Lee

Lee,

I could not find an affidavit from Mooney but I did find a brief report he wrote dated the day after the assassination that you might find interesting and, sorry to say, it will probably provoke more arguments!

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/mooney1.htm

Tony

Tony,

Please do not misunderstand. At this point Lee and I are just ironing out some stuff here. I have no issue with Lee and rather enjoy dicussing issues with him. I think he is a top notch guy!

I think somewhere I do have the Mooney AFF. I will have to see if I can find it. I lost a hard drive about a year ago with a ton of good stuff on it!

Best to you Tony!

Mike

[David Josephs]

Mike/Lee... Not trying to butt in here... just enjoy the subject.

Truly puts his discussion with Fritz (about LHO) and the finding of the rifle much earlier than 1:20-1:25... more like 12:50-1pm

and according to Hill, the casing were found well before 1:15. In fact... before Ball helps Truly change his mind... the rifle was found earlier as well...

Truly’s questioning was yet another example of leading the witness about the timing and location of key personnel… it’s appalling actually.

Mooney calls to Fritz on the Ground when the shells are found – unknown configuration

Decker says Fritz arrives after he does even though they are together

Alyea claims he sees the shells in a small area, bunched together

Craig claims he was with Mooney (Craig is not mentioned at all during Mooney’s Testimony) and also sees them bunched together...

Hill has yet another story… which also includes calling down yet he is on the way down (AFTER FINDING THE SHELLS) when he runs into Fritz on the way up!?!?

Representative FORD. When you noticed the police assembling the employees after the assassination, what prompted you to think that Oswald was not among them?

Mr. TRULY. I have asked myself that many times. I cannot give an answer. Unless it was the fact that I knew he was on the second floor, I had seen him 10 or 15 minutes, or whatever it was, before that. That might have brought that boy's name to my mind--because I was looking over there and he was the only one I missed at that time that I could think of. Subconsciously it might have been because I saw him on the second floor and I knew he was in the building.

Mr. TRULY. I told--well, when Chief Lumpkin and I went to the sixth floor, Captain Fritz was standing in ,the area where I later learned they had found the gun, and Chief Lumpkin told Captain Fritz that Mr. Truly had something to tell him, which I would like to tell him, so he stepped over 4 or 5 feet to where I was, away from the other men---officers and reporters, I would say, that were on the floor, and I repeated the words to Captain Fritz.

Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?

Mr. TRULY. I told him that we had a man missing---I told him what his name was and his Irving address and he said, "All right, thank you, Mr. Truly. We will get right on it," or words to that effect, and so I left the sixth floor shortly.

While I was up there, just as I left Captain Fritz, a reporter walked over and said, "What about this fellow Oswald?" And I said, "Where did you learn the name 'Oswald'?" Because I had talked rather low to Captain Fritz and I said, "He's just an employee here," and I left, and sometime---someone informed me that they had found the gun. I don't know who it was.

Mr. BALL. About that time?

Mr. TRULY. It was along about that time, as near as I can remember, and I went back down to the first floor and I don't think I was up on the sixth floor any other time that day. I possibly could have been, but I don't recall it, because I was besieged by reporters and everybody else on the first floor, and talking to officers and so forth and I had no occasion to go back up there.

Mr. BALL. Now, about what time of day would you say is your best estimate that you told Captain Fritz of the name "Lee Oswald" and his address?

Mr. TRULY. My best estimate would be a little before 1 o'clock--10 minutes.

Mr. BALL. The gun wasn't found until after 1 o'clock?

Mr. TRULY. It wasn't found until after 1 o'clock?

Mr. BALL. No, it wasn't found until after 1 o'clock. I won't tell you exactly the time the gun was found, but I will say that the gun was not found until after 1 o'clock.

Mr. TRULY. Well, I may be mistaken about where I learned they had found the gun. I thought it was on the sixth floor--it could have been some other place.

Mr. BALL. Captain Fritz said you didn't tell him that until after the gun was found and that seems to correspond with your memory too, is that correct?

Mr. TRULY. It sure does, because I remember clearly that Captain Fritz was over at where the gun was found and I'm sure they must have found it or he wouldn't have been standing in that area when we came up there.

Mr. BALL. Now, if the gun was found after I o'clock, when was it that you discovered that Lee Oswald wasn't there?

Mr. TRULY. I thought it was about 20 minutes after the shooting--the assassination, but it could have been longer.

Mr. BALL. In other words, you thought originally it might have been 10 minutes of 2 or so that you learned that?

Mr. TRULY. Ten minutes to 1.

Mr. BALL. Ten minutes to 1?

Mr. TRULY. It was around 1 o'clock--that period of time after I came down from the sixth floor to the first floor was rather hazy in my memory.

Mr. BALL. You think it might have been after 1 when you first noticed he wasn't there?

Mr. TRULY. I don't think so---I don't feel like at was. It could have possibly been so.

Mr. BALL. Well, if the gun was not found before 1:10, if it wasn't found before that, can you give me any estimate?

Mr. TRULY. That seems to be a longer time after the assassination.

Mr. BALL. You didn't wait 20 minutes from the time you learned Lee Oswald's address until the time you told Captain Fritz, did you?

Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I did stand there on the first floor waiting until Chief Lumpkin got through talking for a few minutes.

Mr. BALL. Tell me about how many minutes you think it was from the time you obtained the address of Lee Oswald until you told Captain Fritz the name and address?

Mr. TRULY. I think it was immediately.

Mr. BALL. Immediately?

Mr. TRULY. Immediately, after I called to the warehouse and got his name and address in Irving, I turned around and walked over and told Captain Fritz at that time.

Mr. BALL. Chief Lumpkin?

Mr. TRULY. Yes; Chief Lumpkin.

Mr. BALL. Yes; Chief Lumpkin.

Mr. TRULY. And I remember Chief Lumpkin talking to two or three officers and I stepped back and he went ahead and told them a few things--it could have been 2 or 3 or 4 minutes.

Mr. BALL. Not over that?

Mr. TRULY. I don't believe so, and then he came to me and said, "All right, Mr. Truly, let's go up and see Captain Fritz and tell him this."

Mr. BALL. Then, if the gun wasn't found until after 1:10, you think it might have been as late as 1:05 or so before you discovered that Oswald wasn't there?

Mr. TRULY. It could be--it could have been.

Mr. BALL. You have no exact memory as to the time you discovered he was not there?

Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I didn't believe after thinking things over--it was over in 15 or 20 minutes after the shots were fired, but after retracing my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, I would have to say that it was farther along in the day than I had believed, so it could have been I or 1:05 or something like that.

Mr. BALL. Before you discovered Oswald wasn't there?

Mr. TRULY. That's right, and at such time that you have information of the officers taking the names of the workers in the warehouse over in and around the wrapping tables, it was at such time that I noticed that this boy wasn't among the other workers.

Mr. BALL. You remember you had seen him on the second floor, didn't you?

Mr. TRULY. That's right.

Mr. HILL. I wouldn't know, but I know they identified themselves to us as deputy sheriffs, and some more people knew them.

So we went into the building, and Captain Fritz and his men said they would start at the first floor and work up, and they asked several of us to go to the top floor and work down. We went up to the seventh floor on the elevator and I believe the elevator ran to the sixth, and we cut around the stairway and got to seven and shook it down.

At this time there were the two deputy sheriffs and I and one uniformed officer up there.

Mr. HILL:….

…When I got toward the back, at this time I heard the freight elevator moving, and I went back to the back of the building to either catch the freight elevator or the stairs, and Captain Fritz and his men were coming up on the elevator.

I told him what we found and pointed out the general area, pointed out the deputies to them, and told him also that I was going to make sure the crime lab was en route.

Roger Craig’s “When they Kill a President”

Luke Mooney and I reached the southeast corner at the same time.

We immediately found three rifle cartridges laying in such a way

that they looked as though they had been carefully and deliberately

placed there--in plain sight on the floor to the right of the

southeast corner window. Mooney and I examined the cartridges very

carefully and remarked how close together they were. The three of

them were no more than one inch apart and all were facing in the

same direction, a feat very difficult to achieve with a bolt action

rifle--or any rifle for that matter. One cartridge drew our

particular attention. It was crimped on the end which would have

held the slug. It had not been stepped on but merely crimped over

on one small portion of the rim. The rest of that end was

perfectly round.

ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.

Date: November 23 1963

….The minute that I saw the expended shells on the floor, I hung my head out of the half opened window and signaled to Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz who were outside the building and advised them to send up the Crime Lab Officers at once that I had located the area from which the shots had been fired. At this time, Officers Webstr, Victory, and McCurley came over to this spot and we guarded this spot until Crime Lab Officers got upstairs within a matter of a few minutes. We then turned this area over to Captain Fritz and his officers for processing. {where is Hill all this time??}

From Connie Kritzberg's Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window, pp. 39-46

I [followed] the search team that was on its way to the rear elevator, to start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all the way to the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building. Finding nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes, they were joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland Hospital.

{the gunman could still have been in the building yet they allow “citizens” to go back to work and even ride in the elevator with the officers!!}

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...ker_Ex_5323.pdf

page 461

After my first arrival at the Texas School Book Depository

Building from Parkland Hospital, Captain Fritz of the

DPD, Homicide Division arrived and he xxxx went on up into

the Texas School Book repository Building, leaving a pair

of his officers down stairs where they opened up their

automobile and brought out rifles to assist them in

securing the building. Shortly thereafter Captain Fritz

came to my office….

Sims and Boyd say Decker went with them (and Fritz) in the same car…?!?

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1538-002.gif Curry tells Fritz to get to the TSBD….

“Sheriff Decker went with us” {first 3 lines}

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/fritz2.htm Fritz affidavit

Three spent rifle hulls were found under the window in the southeast corner of the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building, Dallas, Texas, on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. When the officers called me to this window, I asked them not to move the shells nor touch them until Lt. Day of the Dallas Police Department could make pictures of the hulls showing where they fell after being ejected from the rifle. After the pictures were made, Detective R. M. Sims of the Homicide Bureau, who was assisting in the search of building, brought the three empty hulls to my office.

{kind of strange to add the line about showing where they fell – to differentiate taking pictures of the hulls after he threw them back on the floor?}

Not to mention all the discussion and affidavits putting the shells on the 5th and even the 3rd floors along with quite a lot of activity on the 4th floor (where Sawyer rund up, lloks around for a minute and comes back down...).

Interesting discussion

DJ

[Mike Williams]

Clearly the shells were no found anyplace but the 6th. Just as obvious Craig lied without shame about many parts of that day.

Mooney clearly says he was alone when they were found. It is possible Alyea filmed Fritz entering and arrived on the 6th at some point when Fritz did as well. However the point is Alyea was incorrect when he said he was on the 6th when they were found.

It is also interesting that Hill also claims it is not until he yelled down that hea then heard Fritz coming up in the elevator.

I have also read that many tried to claim the time was much earlier. This is generally in an attempt to make the timing of the Oswald identification impossible. I have never read anything credible that places the discovery of the shells earlier than 1:12.

[Mike Williams]

Lee,

I still wonder if in fact Fritz was in the building when the casings were found. Really though it was needless to the original point. Alyea was not on the sixth floor when the casings were found, as he claimed to have been.

I would wonder why Mooney says he saw Fritz on the ground if in fact Fritz was in the building?

he stated that in his WC testimony, and in the call with me two years ago. Is it possible he is mistaken, sure it is. Is it just as possible others are, of course.

I just refuse to put a sinister turn on something causing a mistake to be called a lie, until there is an intention placed on it. If it is made to intentionally mislead then by all means, but to what end would this lie serve purpose? None None at all. If he was incorrect, and he may well be, it certainly does not mean he lied intentionally.

As for my doing my homework, What I was examining had little to do with where Fritz was, or was not. I simply asked for and received clarification about the placement of the casings.

Had you done your homework, as I said you would realize that Alyea was mistaken about being on the 6th when the casings were found, which was the whole point I was making.

Mike,

It gets Fritz away from the snipers nest in the immediate minutes following the discovery of the shells. If he's not there he can't tamper with them.

Lee

I hardly think that he would really have to lie about that. As it stands we have film footage from Alyea of Fritz entering the TSBD. If this is the case then Alyea had to enter after Fritz. So then to do we have Gerald Hill saying he yelled down to the ground as well, and then shortly after he heard Fritz et al coming up in the freight elevator.

I think it is plausible that Fritz may have been still on the ground when they were found.

Basically what we have is crime scene photos that Mooney says are consistent with what he saw. This is completely contradictory to Craig who said they were all neat in a row, and Alyea who says they could be covered by a hand towel. I might also note that not even Alyea seems to agree with Craig.

Mike

Mike

If Fritz got to the TBSD at 12:58PM then I think it conceivable that Alyea could get the footage of Fritz entering, follow him in, Fritz stops on most of the floors then goes to the 7th. Alyea is then on the 6th. The casings are found at 1:15PM. Fritz comes down from the 7th floor 1:16PM-1:17PM.

Mike - have you seen any affidavits from Luke Mooney about his discovery? I've looked in the DPD files and there is zilch for Mooney.

Lee

Lee,

Buddy I am sure I have. Let me do some digging, as I think we are making good ground here.

Mike

[Bernice Moore]

MOONEYS STATEMENT....COUNTY OF DALLAS

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT

ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.

Date: November 23 1963

I was standing in front of the Sheriff's office at 505 Main Street, Dallas, When President Kennedy and the motorcade passed by. Within a few seconds after he had passed me and the motorcade had turned the corner I heard a shot and I immediately started running towards the front of the motorcade and within seconds heard a second and a third shot. I started running across Houston Street and down across the lawn to the triple underpass and up the terrace to the railroad yards. I searched along with many other officers, this area, when Sheriff Bill Decker came up and told me and the Officers Sam Webster and Billy Joe Victory to surround the Texas School Book Depository building. As we approached the two big steel wire gates to the building dockat the back of the building on Elm Street side, we saw saw that the loading dock had locks on it and I then pulled the steel gates closed and requested of a citizen standing there to see that no-one came out or went in until I could get a uniformed officer there, which he did. Officers Webster, Victory, and myself took to the building. Officers Webster and Victory took the stairs and I told them I would take the freight elevator. At the time I got on the elevator two women who work in the building got on the elevator, saying they wanted to go to their offive. As the elevator started up, we went up one floor and the power to the elevator was cut off. I got out on the floor with theese women and looked around in their office and I then took to the stairs and went to the 6th floor, and Officers Webster and Victory went up to the 7th floor. I was the only person on the 6th floor when I searched it and was reasonably sure that there was no one else on this floor as I searched it and then criss-crossed it, seeing only stacks of cartons of books. I was at that time also checking for open windows and fire escapes. I found where someone had been using a skill saw in laying some flooring in one corner of this floor and I then went to the 7th floor and was assisting in searching it out and crawled into the attic opening and decided it was too dark and came down to order flash lights. I then went on back to the 6th floor and went direct to the far corner and then discovered a cubby hole which had been constructed out of cartons which protected it from sight and found where someone had been in an area of perhaps 2 feet surrounded by

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cardboard cartons of books. Inside this cubby hole affair was three more boxes so arranged as to provide what appeared to be a rest for a rifle. On one of these cartons was a half-eaten piece of chicken. The minute that I saw the expended shells on the floor, I hung my head out of the half opened window and signaled to Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz who were outside the building and advised them to send up the Crime Lab Officers at once that I had located the area from which the shots had been fired. At this time, Officers Webstr, Victory, and McCurley came over to this spot and we guarded this spot until Crime Lab Officers got upstairs within a matter of a few minutes. We then turned this area over to Captain Fritz and his officers for processing.

At this time I continued to search this 6th floor along with many other officers and within a few minutes, I heard Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone holler out that he had found the rifle near the staircase between some rows of cartons.

We continued to search the building for a suspect.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm

BTW THANKS MARTY FOR YOUR INFO POSTED, GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE...TAKE CARE B..PS NO AFFIDAVIT FOUND AT THE MARY FARRELL SITE....

Edited May 25, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

COUPLE OF AYLEA'S SHOTS OF LUKE MOONEY...

Edited May 25, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

TONY FWIW AYLEA'S FIRST REPORT FROM CONNIE KRITZBERG'S BOOK, DEC.16/63..MAY BE OF HELP...FROM A POST A FEW YEARS BACK I MADE ON JFK RESEARCH...B

Thomas Aylea WFAA Newsman/Reporter..

Information from "Pictures of the Pain"..pages 520-521

Tom Aylea used a Bell & Howell 70 DR 16 mm camera, loaded with black and white film , it was an old camera and had the history of loosing the fim loop when being operated. He also grabbed three extra cans of of film along with the emergency roll he always carried in his back pocket.All told he had 500 feet of unprocessed film available to him .He and Ray John had been assigned on the 21st to cover the President's arrival and activities in Ft Worth.

While there around the Hotel Texas , his camera had broken down and he had been forced to borrow one, he returned it prior to his trip back to Dallas..The men took the WFAA news station wagon via Route 20 from Ft Worth to Dallas.with John driving.

The afternoon of the 22nd was to be spent at the station processing the film for the evening news.They arrived back in Dallas about 12.30 pm.and traveling East on Commerce within the Dealey Plaza area, John was preparing to make a right onto Houston Street to the WFAA station on Young Street. The newsmen had both the car's radio as well as the police band radios turned on. Not cognizant of the fact that they were only several hundred feet south of Elm St. when the remnants of the presidential motorcade was passing by, they were halted at a traffic light some eight cars lengths from Houston..

Alyea " We sat there listening to the parade coverage on the radio. I didn't even think to look across Dealey Plaza to the Depository.The first indication that anything had gone wrong came when we heard a voice on the police radio. It gave an unusual alert---" All units on Stemmons and Industrial, Code 3 Parkland"..Not associating the call with the President at first, the call was repeated, and within about 20 seconds the men heard WFAA commercial radio announcer, John Allen break in with the statement that shots had been fired at the President near Houston and Em.."We were still waiting for the traffic light to change: suddenly I realized where I was......

I grabbed Ray's camera, told him to take the other film on to the station , and I took off across Dealey for the Houston and Elm intersection . I fimed while running and, assuming that the shots came from the ground, I looked around and began shooting".

"I raced across Commerce and Main Sts. dodging traffic .On the far side of Elm I saw people rushing around, I had begun filming on the way as I crossed Main St. and as I was filming I was looking for police. They were not around. Some people were running towards the railroad tracks while others towards the monument area..I thought "There's nothing going on here"..and I went up to Ellm and Houston ,"Not knowing anything about the incident, and seeing little direct activity around the intersection, Alyea did notice several cops and one man looking up at the Depository Building, He fimed the entrance, and as six or seven plaincothesmen rushed in through the double entry door, Alyea followed unchallenged with Dallas Morning News reporter Ken Biffle directly behind him. As they got in, Alyea heard a fellow say, "Shut the door! Lock it ---no one in---no one out."..It would appear that Alyea arrived at the TSBD some time between 12.34 and 12.36pm....when there was still much confusion in front of the building and prior to the large scale uniformed police response to the police dispatch orders ..

Tom's story follows.....

Interview Dec. 16/63........

By Tom Alyea ..."The Facts and the Photos"..

From :Connie Kritzbergs..book

..

"Secrets From the Sixth Floor Window"....p.39...46

Editor's Note: Tom Aylea, the only newsman to join the initial police search team on the sixth-floor of the Texas School Book Depository on November 22,1963, denounces the disruption of the barricade fashioned of boxes as he first saw it.

Aylea, former WFAA ( owned by the Dallas Morning News ) newsman/reporter , who recorded the panic on Dealey Plaza explains that the positioning of boxes was destoryed before the general press with still cameras were allowed in the building .He had completed his work in photographing everything of note and returned to his station long before the building was opened to the general press.

He recorded three cartridges where they landed after they were ejected from the rifle, He recorded the rifle as it was found, before it was touched."...All such evidence was available from Tom through a prescription to his newsletter " JFK Facts" ..

""I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to

accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for

the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the

president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a

few uniformed officers.

I (followed ) the search team that was on its way to the rear elevator, to

start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all the way to

the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building. Finding

nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes, they were

joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland Hospital.

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows, extending in

an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and

second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5

ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the

floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were

scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were

located about half way between the inside of the barricade. I set my lens

focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the

camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went

into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view

finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens,

from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my

side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the

casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside

the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the

enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade

and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand

over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I

filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in

Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall

if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor,

because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I

have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of

Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the

first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he

was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell

casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is

staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that

appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings

that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a

plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link

in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to

stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and

photo records.

The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one who was

not there, is important because of the difference in photographs seen

today.

There are four different box positions.

There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably higher

than the others. This box is the one that can be seen in the photos taken

from outside the window by Tom Dillard, because it was high enough to

catch the sunlight and still be seen from the ground below. It is not to

be confused with the second box set at an angle in the window sill, that

was used as a brace for the assassin's rifle.

A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos taken by

Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand corner of the picture.

Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to give arm

support to the assassin. The top box was one of the two boxes from which

the crime lab lifted palm prints.

The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the sniper

location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this box. It is suspected

that the sniper sat on this box while he waited for the motorcade to pass.

The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police crime

lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.

The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by the

police. Its actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was

taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.

We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window with three

boxes piled could form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was actually on

the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for this that I

cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location consists of two

windows set together to form one single window. (The police photo showing

the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was staged later by crime

lab people who did not see the original positioning because they were not

called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour

later.

Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still cameraman on

the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where the rifle was

found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my understanding that Day and

Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and homemade sack back to police

headquarters. I personally would like to know what they were doing back at

the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots they had failed to take

during the primary investigation. But this evidence had been destroyed and

they were forced to create their own version. The photo I have seen of the

barricade wasn't even close. I have also seen recently a police photo of

the assassin's lair taken from a high angle which indicates that it was

shot before the barricade box arrangement was destroyed, but it did not

show the barricade itself. This has no bearing on the case other than the

public has never seen the original placement. I show it in my JFK Facts

newsletter.

Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the assassin's

window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at or near the

site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the floor near the

location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the barricade boxes, while

another reported that he saw chicken bones on the box which was laying

across the window sill. Some of these officers have given testimony as to

the location of the shell casings. Their testimony differs and none of it

is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to these statements. They

must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put it in a report and they

must stick to it.

One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the 6th floor

window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers were leaving

the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he stopped

briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's lair at the 6th

floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain Fritz joined

us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are great that

this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from WFAA-TV's

incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the 6th floor.

This officer or officers perhaps used this information to formulate their

presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found on the 6th floor.

We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that could possibly be

suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken bones, were no

chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the window. I shot

close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding puzzle as to why

these officers are sticking to this story is the fact they claim to have

found the sniper's location, then left the building, as they said to join

the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I have never seen a

report that indicates they attempted to use any telephone in the building

in an attempt to notify other investigators. They just left the scene to

check another assignment, and by chance ran into Capt. Fritz coming in the

front door. They claim to have placed a detective at the location but they

did not relay their finding to any other officer before they left the

building. I presume that the alleged detective they allegedly left at the

scene was instructed to stand there until someone else stumbled upon the

scene, or they found time to report it after investigating the Tippit

scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.

I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle was found

because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to another

detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location was

found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with more

men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the

latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.

When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news

that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time

he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the

hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was

underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the

search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that

the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who

brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for

Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much

misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the

president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing

or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude

( towards) the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion

of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day

to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. I give an

account of this in JFK Facts.

We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or any other

evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz ordered all of

us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor and from there

we went to the roof.

Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our search back

down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor,

Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden

by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found.

In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure

next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with

the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down

and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and

Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the

rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for

all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day

immediately turned toward the window behind him and started dusting the

weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure formed by the

surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the rifle. He lifted

them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white cards. When he

had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz pulled the bolt

back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes below. Fritz put the

cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up anything other than

the live round.

I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled area

( the "sniper's nest") along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.

Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is

all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the

pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.

I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal can, wrapped

the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J. L'Hoste, who

was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not allowed in the

building. A. J. raced it to the television station which was about three

blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the murder weapon,

where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people dusting it for

fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those bullets. They

also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the view he had of

the killing zone.....""

End of quote..

"Pictures of the Pain "..page 537

Back at the station Aylea's fim was being processed as quickly as it arrived most of it being broadcast unedited..Sometime after 3.15 pm the first Alyea film was telecast. ..The one minute 45 second sequence was not the first Tom had taken as it shows the rifle already discovered , as well as 15 other short sequences including the snipers nest scene.A short time later a 25 second additional segment was shown looking from the inside first floor entrance through the closed door at the two cops on the steps is also projected. All told WFAA broadcast Alyea's films some 5 separate occasions. Not including replays some 34 scenes were show, including views of the police on the street below and the spectators corralled below on the opposite side of Elm, near the reflecting pool area.The total none repeated film totalled 4 minutes..12 seconds. A David Wolper documentary film included five other short clips by Alyea not seen on the WFAA telecasts of 1963. These clips show an additional 14 seconds of film.A still later televised series ,

"The Men Who Killed Kennedy" included additional film.Among these three sources are a total of 54 separate fim clips of approximately 5 minutes 26 1/2 seconds duration , all identifiable to Alyea..The clips include several other views of the southeats corner of the 6th floor and views of the rifle prior to its being picked up by Lt. Day.Alyea shot all of his fim ammounting to some 500 feet.But at the station this precious film was not looked upon as of any historical documentation..or even as possible investigative use, It was part of a news package and would be edited, cut up, and shown only with only the concern of telling a breaking news story.....

Alyea increduously remembers, "The news director had a bunch of it burned and I said, "Bob, don't burn anything ---this is history, we don't know what's going on there..."..He said if we can't use it on the news get it out of here.".So much film was piling up in the cramped editing room floor that the next day much of it was destroyed .Alyea recalls that in between assignments he would come in to have his new fim processed , and while there would pick up some of his discarded film, spin it on a reel and take it. He retained some of these clips, but bemoans the lose of other potentially historic film , "I could have shot Oswald coming out ---could have shown someone else coming out."

In Apri 1964...WFAA furnished to the FBI, upon it's request ,a dub of all the segments which survived and could be indentified as Alyea's..

Tom Ayea would film one final dramatic, though post shootong event..Scheduled on Sunday to cover a news conference by Mrs John Connally at Parkland Hospital, the gathered press learned that Oswald had been shot by a phone call to the press room. Many took off for Baylor or Methodist Hospitals which were closer to the city jail,.. Aylea on a hunch and others ran to Parkand's emergency entrance. His camera is running as a police cruiser rounds the circular drive followed by an ambulance which stops and, as a cop motions with his hand, the vehice backs under the canopy..Oswald's strecher is removed from the back amid much pandemonium .Attempting to follow the gurnet Alyea recalls, ......" the officers forced a human wall across the hallway and refused to let us pass."

In the crowded corridor Alyea could not see in front of him ..Another cameraman , Bob Welch , had a light attached to his camera ,and Alyea told him to shine the light on the cops' heads. As he did this, Alyea using the man's light, held his camera as high as possible and pushed his film button .."I coudn't see what I was shooting:..His flim includes Oswald being wheeled down the hall "I had filmed that, as well as the Doctors rushing from the emergency room to take Oswald from the police, and I hadn't even been sure that I'd gotten anything"..It was a real stroke of luck."..

Tom Alyea also covered the trial of Jack Ruby for WFAA and also filmed a day in the life of Marina Oswald.. In 1966 he moved to Lafette, Louisiana, beginning his own news service operation and publishing a bulletin relating to the oil and gas industry. Following the 1983 oil price depression, Alyea moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma ..An avid cartoonist with a flair for teaching, known as "Toma" to his audience, he produced several successful children's tapes on learning to make cartoons. It has only been in recent years he has become aware of all the misinformation concerning the assassination and now believes it important to help correct some of the factual errors ..

Alyea Clip...

Index of Photographers

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http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

B..

[Tony Austin]

TONY FWIW AYLEA'S FIRST REPORT FROM CONNIE KRITZBERG'S BOOK, DEC.16/63..MAY BE OF HELP...FROM A POST A FEW YEARS BACK I MADE ON JFK RESEARCH...B

Thomas Aylea WFAA Newsman/Reporter..

Information from "Pictures of the Pain"..pages 520-521

Tom Aylea used a Bell & Howell 70 DR 16 mm camera, loaded with black and white film , it was an old camera and had the history of loosing the fim loop when being operated. He also grabbed three extra cans of of film along with the emergency roll he always carried in his back pocket.All told he had 500 feet of unprocessed film available to him .He and Ray John had been assigned on the 21st to cover the President's arrival and activities in Ft Worth.

While there around the Hotel Texas , his camera had broken down and he had been forced to borrow one, he returned it prior to his trip back to Dallas..The men took the WFAA news station wagon via Route 20 from Ft Worth to Dallas.with John driving.

The afternoon of the 22nd was to be spent at the station processing the film for the evening news.They arrived back in Dallas about 12.30 pm.and traveling East on Commerce within the Dealey Plaza area, John was preparing to make a right onto Houston Street to the WFAA station on Young Street. The newsmen had both the car's radio as well as the police band radios turned on. Not cognizant of the fact that they were only several hundred feet south of Elm St. when the remnants of the presidential motorcade was passing by, they were halted at a traffic light some eight cars lengths from Houston..

Alyea " We sat there listening to the parade coverage on the radio. I didn't even think to look across Dealey Plaza to the Depository.The first indication that anything had gone wrong came when we heard a voice on the police radio. It gave an unusual alert---" All units on Stemmons and Industrial, Code 3 Parkland"..Not associating the call with the President at first, the call was repeated, and within about 20 seconds the men heard WFAA commercial radio announcer, John Allen break in with the statement that shots had been fired at the President near Houston and Em.."We were still waiting for the traffic light to change: suddenly I realized where I was......

I grabbed Ray's camera, told him to take the other film on to the station , and I took off across Dealey for the Houston and Elm intersection . I fimed while running and, assuming that the shots came from the ground, I looked around and began shooting".

"I raced across Commerce and Main Sts. dodging traffic .On the far side of Elm I saw people rushing around, I had begun filming on the way as I crossed Main St. and as I was filming I was looking for police. They were not around. Some people were running towards the railroad tracks while others towards the monument area..I thought "There's nothing going on here"..and I went up to Ellm and Houston ,"Not knowing anything about the incident, and seeing little direct activity around the intersection, Alyea did notice several cops and one man looking up at the Depository Building, He fimed the entrance, and as six or seven plaincothesmen rushed in through the double entry door, Alyea followed unchallenged with Dallas Morning News reporter Ken Biffle directly behind him. As they got in, Alyea heard a fellow say, "Shut the door! Lock it ---no one in---no one out."..It would appear that Alyea arrived at the TSBD some time between 12.34 and 12.36pm....when there was still much confusion in front of the building and prior to the large scale uniformed police response to the police dispatch orders ..

Tom's story follows.....

Interview Dec. 16/63........

By Tom Alyea ..."The Facts and the Photos"..

From :Connie Kritzbergs..book

..

"Secrets From the Sixth Floor Window"....p.39...46

Editor's Note: Tom Aylea, the only newsman to join the initial police search team on the sixth-floor of the Texas School Book Depository on November 22,1963, denounces the disruption of the barricade fashioned of boxes as he first saw it.

Aylea, former WFAA ( owned by the Dallas Morning News ) newsman/reporter , who recorded the panic on Dealey Plaza explains that the positioning of boxes was destoryed before the general press with still cameras were allowed in the building .He had completed his work in photographing everything of note and returned to his station long before the building was opened to the general press.

He recorded three cartridges where they landed after they were ejected from the rifle, He recorded the rifle as it was found, before it was touched."...All such evidence was available from Tom through a prescription to his newsletter " JFK Facts" ..

""I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to

accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for

the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the

president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a

few uniformed officers.

I (followed ) the search team that was on its way to the rear elevator, to

start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all the way to

the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building. Finding

nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes, they were

joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland Hospital.

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows, extending in

an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and

second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5

ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the

floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were

scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were

located about half way between the inside of the barricade. I set my lens

focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the

camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went

into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view

finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens,

from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my

side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the

casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside

the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the

enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade

and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand

over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I

filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in

Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall

if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor,

because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I

have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of

Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the

first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he

was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell

casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is

staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that

appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings

that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a

plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link

in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to

stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and

photo records.

The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one who was

not there, is important because of the difference in photographs seen

today.

There are four different box positions.

There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably higher

than the others. This box is the one that can be seen in the photos taken

from outside the window by Tom Dillard, because it was high enough to

catch the sunlight and still be seen from the ground below. It is not to

be confused with the second box set at an angle in the window sill, that

was used as a brace for the assassin's rifle.

A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos taken by

Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand corner of the picture.

Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to give arm

support to the assassin. The top box was one of the two boxes from which

the crime lab lifted palm prints.

The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the sniper

location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this box. It is suspected

that the sniper sat on this box while he waited for the motorcade to pass.

The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police crime

lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.

The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by the

police. Its actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was

taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.

We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window with three

boxes piled could form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was actually on

the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for this that I

cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location consists of two

windows set together to form one single window. (The police photo showing

the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was staged later by crime

lab people who did not see the original positioning because they were not

called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour

later.

Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still cameraman on

the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where the rifle was

found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my understanding that Day and

Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and homemade sack back to police

headquarters. I personally would like to know what they were doing back at

the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots they had failed to take

during the primary investigation. But this evidence had been destroyed and

they were forced to create their own version. The photo I have seen of the

barricade wasn't even close. I have also seen recently a police photo of

the assassin's lair taken from a high angle which indicates that it was

shot before the barricade box arrangement was destroyed, but it did not

show the barricade itself. This has no bearing on the case other than the

public has never seen the original placement. I show it in my JFK Facts

newsletter.

Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the assassin's

window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at or near the

site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the floor near the

location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the barricade boxes, while

another reported that he saw chicken bones on the box which was laying

across the window sill. Some of these officers have given testimony as to

the location of the shell casings. Their testimony differs and none of it

is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to these statements. They

must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put it in a report and they

must stick to it.

One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the 6th floor

window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers were leaving

the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he stopped

briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's lair at the 6th

floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain Fritz joined

us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are great that

this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from WFAA-TV's

incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the 6th floor.

This officer or officers perhaps used this information to formulate their

presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found on the 6th floor.

We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that could possibly be

suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken bones, were no

chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the window. I shot

close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding puzzle as to why

these officers are sticking to this story is the fact they claim to have

found the sniper's location, then left the building, as they said to join

the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I have never seen a

report that indicates they attempted to use any telephone in the building

in an attempt to notify other investigators. They just left the scene to

check another assignment, and by chance ran into Capt. Fritz coming in the

front door. They claim to have placed a detective at the location but they

did not relay their finding to any other officer before they left the

building. I presume that the alleged detective they allegedly left at the

scene was instructed to stand there until someone else stumbled upon the

scene, or they found time to report it after investigating the Tippit

scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.

I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle was found

because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to another

detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location was

found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with more

men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the

latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.

When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news

that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time

he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the

hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was

underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the

search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that

the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who

brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for

Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much

misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the

president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing

or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude

( towards) the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion

of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day

to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. I give an

account of this in JFK Facts.

We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or any other

evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz ordered all of

us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor and from there

we went to the roof.

Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our search back

down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor,

Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden

by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found.

In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure

next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with

the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down

and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and

Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the

rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for

all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day

immediately turned toward the window behind him and started dusting the

weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure formed by the

surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the rifle. He lifted

them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white cards. When he

had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz pulled the bolt

back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes below. Fritz put the

cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up anything other than

the live round.

I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled area

( the "sniper's nest") along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.

Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is

all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the

pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.

I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal can, wrapped

the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J. L'Hoste, who

was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not allowed in the

building. A. J. raced it to the television station which was about three

blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the murder weapon,

where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people dusting it for

fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those bullets. They

also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the view he had of

the killing zone.....""

End of quote..

"Pictures of the Pain "..page 537

Back at the station Aylea's fim was being processed as quickly as it arrived most of it being broadcast unedited..Sometime after 3.15 pm the first Alyea film was telecast. ..The one minute 45 second sequence was not the first Tom had taken as it shows the rifle already discovered , as well as 15 other short sequences including the snipers nest scene.A short time later a 25 second additional segment was shown looking from the inside first floor entrance through the closed door at the two cops on the steps is also projected. All told WFAA broadcast Alyea's films some 5 separate occasions. Not including replays some 34 scenes were show, including views of the police on the street below and the spectators corralled below on the opposite side of Elm, near the reflecting pool area.The total none repeated film totalled 4 minutes..12 seconds. A David Wolper documentary film included five other short clips by Alyea not seen on the WFAA telecasts of 1963. These clips show an additional 14 seconds of film.A still later televised series ,

"The Men Who Killed Kennedy" included additional film.Among these three sources are a total of 54 separate fim clips of approximately 5 minutes 26 1/2 seconds duration , all identifiable to Alyea..The clips include several other views of the southeats corner of the 6th floor and views of the rifle prior to its being picked up by Lt. Day.Alyea shot all of his fim ammounting to some 500 feet.But at the station this precious film was not looked upon as of any historical documentation..or even as possible investigative use, It was part of a news package and would be edited, cut up, and shown only with only the concern of telling a breaking news story.....

Alyea increduously remembers, "The news director had a bunch of it burned and I said, "Bob, don't burn anything ---this is history, we don't know what's going on there..."..He said if we can't use it on the news get it out of here.".So much film was piling up in the cramped editing room floor that the next day much of it was destroyed .Alyea recalls that in between assignments he would come in to have his new fim processed , and while there would pick up some of his discarded film, spin it on a reel and take it. He retained some of these clips, but bemoans the lose of other potentially historic film , "I could have shot Oswald coming out ---could have shown someone else coming out."

In Apri 1964...WFAA furnished to the FBI, upon it's request ,a dub of all the segments which survived and could be indentified as Alyea's..

Tom Ayea would film one final dramatic, though post shootong event..Scheduled on Sunday to cover a news conference by Mrs John Connally at Parkland Hospital, the gathered press learned that Oswald had been shot by a phone call to the press room. Many took off for Baylor or Methodist Hospitals which were closer to the city jail,.. Aylea on a hunch and others ran to Parkand's emergency entrance. His camera is running as a police cruiser rounds the circular drive followed by an ambulance which stops and, as a cop motions with his hand, the vehice backs under the canopy..Oswald's strecher is removed from the back amid much pandemonium .Attempting to follow the gurnet Alyea recalls, ......" the officers forced a human wall across the hallway and refused to let us pass."

In the crowded corridor Alyea could not see in front of him ..Another cameraman , Bob Welch , had a light attached to his camera ,and Alyea told him to shine the light on the cops' heads. As he did this, Alyea using the man's light, held his camera as high as possible and pushed his film button .."I coudn't see what I was shooting:..His flim includes Oswald being wheeled down the hall "I had filmed that, as well as the Doctors rushing from the emergency room to take Oswald from the police, and I hadn't even been sure that I'd gotten anything"..It was a real stroke of luck."..

Tom Alyea also covered the trial of Jack Ruby for WFAA and also filmed a day in the life of Marina Oswald.. In 1966 he moved to Lafette, Louisiana, beginning his own news service operation and publishing a bulletin relating to the oil and gas industry. Following the 1983 oil price depression, Alyea moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma ..An avid cartoonist with a flair for teaching, known as "Toma" to his audience, he produced several successful children's tapes on learning to make cartoons. It has only been in recent years he has become aware of all the misinformation concerning the assassination and now believes it important to help correct some of the factual errors ..

Alyea Clip...

Index of Photographers

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http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

B..

Bernice,

Many thanks for your contributions. Reading through the above you see the huge amount of contradictions between the Tom Alyea version of events and the Dallas Police and Sheriff's Department version of events.

I was interested in the comment ".. crime scene peolpe who did not see the original positioning because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour later." An awful lot of law enforcement people would have had to have been lying for this to be true!

With regards to general timing of events, I was interested to find that the evidence envelope that contained the three spent cartridges had a time written on it. As I said in my article, when Captain Fritz saw the rifle he told Detective Sims to go and get Lieutenant Day to photograph the weapon. Sims found Day and helped him to get the spent cartridges fingerprinted and put into an evidence envelope. The two men then returned to where the rifle was found.

Lieutenant Day testifed to the Warren Commission that the date and time that Sims took charge of the envelope was written on the envelope. He told them that the writing says: November 22, 1963, 1:23pm

This is interesting because it does not appear to be an estimate to the nearest 5 or 10 minutes eg 1:20pm or 1:25pm etc. Putting it as 1:23pm suggests that the time was checked on a watch just before it was written.

see: http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol4/page256.php

This would suggest the the rifle was found about 1:20pm and that the crime scene officers must have been on the scene earlier than the 1:20pm time recorded in various statements mentioned earlier.

Tony

Edited May 26, 2010 by Tony Austin

[Tony Austin]

TONY FWIW AYLEA'S FIRST REPORT FROM CONNIE KRITZBERG'S BOOK, DEC.16/63..MAY BE OF HELP...FROM A POST A FEW YEARS BACK I MADE ON JFK RESEARCH...B

Thomas Aylea WFAA Newsman/Reporter..

Information from "Pictures of the Pain"..pages 520-521

Tom Aylea used a Bell & Howell 70 DR 16 mm camera, loaded with black and white film , it was an old camera and had the history of loosing the fim loop when being operated. He also grabbed three extra cans of of film along with the emergency roll he always carried in his back pocket.All told he had 500 feet of unprocessed film available to him .He and Ray John had been assigned on the 21st to cover the President's arrival and activities in Ft Worth.

While there around the Hotel Texas , his camera had broken down and he had been forced to borrow one, he returned it prior to his trip back to Dallas..The men took the WFAA news station wagon via Route 20 from Ft Worth to Dallas.with John driving.

The afternoon of the 22nd was to be spent at the station processing the film for the evening news.They arrived back in Dallas about 12.30 pm.and traveling East on Commerce within the Dealey Plaza area, John was preparing to make a right onto Houston Street to the WFAA station on Young Street. The newsmen had both the car's radio as well as the police band radios turned on. Not cognizant of the fact that they were only several hundred feet south of Elm St. when the remnants of the presidential motorcade was passing by, they were halted at a traffic light some eight cars lengths from Houston..

Alyea " We sat there listening to the parade coverage on the radio. I didn't even think to look across Dealey Plaza to the Depository.The first indication that anything had gone wrong came when we heard a voice on the police radio. It gave an unusual alert---" All units on Stemmons and Industrial, Code 3 Parkland"..Not associating the call with the President at first, the call was repeated, and within about 20 seconds the men heard WFAA commercial radio announcer, John Allen break in with the statement that shots had been fired at the President near Houston and Em.."We were still waiting for the traffic light to change: suddenly I realized where I was......

I grabbed Ray's camera, told him to take the other film on to the station , and I took off across Dealey for the Houston and Elm intersection . I fimed while running and, assuming that the shots came from the ground, I looked around and began shooting".

"I raced across Commerce and Main Sts. dodging traffic .On the far side of Elm I saw people rushing around, I had begun filming on the way as I crossed Main St. and as I was filming I was looking for police. They were not around. Some people were running towards the railroad tracks while others towards the monument area..I thought "There's nothing going on here"..and I went up to Ellm and Houston ,"Not knowing anything about the incident, and seeing little direct activity around the intersection, Alyea did notice several cops and one man looking up at the Depository Building, He fimed the entrance, and as six or seven plaincothesmen rushed in through the double entry door, Alyea followed unchallenged with Dallas Morning News reporter Ken Biffle directly behind him. As they got in, Alyea heard a fellow say, "Shut the door! Lock it ---no one in---no one out."..It would appear that Alyea arrived at the TSBD some time between 12.34 and 12.36pm....when there was still much confusion in front of the building and prior to the large scale uniformed police response to the police dispatch orders ..

Tom's story follows.....

Interview Dec. 16/63........

By Tom Alyea ..."The Facts and the Photos"..

From :Connie Kritzbergs..book

..

"Secrets From the Sixth Floor Window"....p.39...46

Editor's Note: Tom Aylea, the only newsman to join the initial police search team on the sixth-floor of the Texas School Book Depository on November 22,1963, denounces the disruption of the barricade fashioned of boxes as he first saw it.

Aylea, former WFAA ( owned by the Dallas Morning News ) newsman/reporter , who recorded the panic on Dealey Plaza explains that the positioning of boxes was destoryed before the general press with still cameras were allowed in the building .He had completed his work in photographing everything of note and returned to his station long before the building was opened to the general press.

He recorded three cartridges where they landed after they were ejected from the rifle, He recorded the rifle as it was found, before it was touched."...All such evidence was available from Tom through a prescription to his newsletter " JFK Facts" ..

""I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to

accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for

the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the

president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a

few uniformed officers.

I (followed ) the search team that was on its way to the rear elevator, to

start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all the way to

the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building. Finding

nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes, they were

joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland Hospital.

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows, extending in

an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and

second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5

ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the

floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were

scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were

located about half way between the inside of the barricade. I set my lens

focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the

camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went

into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view

finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens,

from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my

side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the

casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside

the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the

enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade

and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand

over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I

filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in

Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall

if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor,

because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I

have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of

Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the

first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he

was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell

casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is

staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that

appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings

that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a

plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link

in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to

stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and

photo records.

The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one who was

not there, is important because of the difference in photographs seen

today.

There are four different box positions.

There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably higher

than the others. This box is the one that can be seen in the photos taken

from outside the window by Tom Dillard, because it was high enough to

catch the sunlight and still be seen from the ground below. It is not to

be confused with the second box set at an angle in the window sill, that

was used as a brace for the assassin's rifle.

A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos taken by

Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand corner of the picture.

Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to give arm

support to the assassin. The top box was one of the two boxes from which

the crime lab lifted palm prints.

The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the sniper

location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this box. It is suspected

that the sniper sat on this box while he waited for the motorcade to pass.

The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police crime

lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.

The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by the

police. Its actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was

taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.

We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window with three

boxes piled could form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was actually on

the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for this that I

cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location consists of two

windows set together to form one single window. (The police photo showing

the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was staged later by crime

lab people who did not see the original positioning because they were not

called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour

later.

Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still cameraman on

the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where the rifle was

found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my understanding that Day and

Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and homemade sack back to police

headquarters. I personally would like to know what they were doing back at

the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots they had failed to take

during the primary investigation. But this evidence had been destroyed and

they were forced to create their own version. The photo I have seen of the

barricade wasn't even close. I have also seen recently a police photo of

the assassin's lair taken from a high angle which indicates that it was

shot before the barricade box arrangement was destroyed, but it did not

show the barricade itself. This has no bearing on the case other than the

public has never seen the original placement. I show it in my JFK Facts

newsletter.

Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the assassin's

window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at or near the

site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the floor near the

location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the barricade boxes, while

another reported that he saw chicken bones on the box which was laying

across the window sill. Some of these officers have given testimony as to

the location of the shell casings. Their testimony differs and none of it

is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to these statements. They

must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put it in a report and they

must stick to it.

One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the 6th floor

window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers were leaving

the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he stopped

briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's lair at the 6th

floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain Fritz joined

us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are great that

this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from WFAA-TV's

incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the 6th floor.

This officer or officers perhaps used this information to formulate their

presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found on the 6th floor.

We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that could possibly be

suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken bones, were no

chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the window. I shot

close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding puzzle as to why

these officers are sticking to this story is the fact they claim to have

found the sniper's location, then left the building, as they said to join

the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I have never seen a

report that indicates they attempted to use any telephone in the building

in an attempt to notify other investigators. They just left the scene to

check another assignment, and by chance ran into Capt. Fritz coming in the

front door. They claim to have placed a detective at the location but they

did not relay their finding to any other officer before they left the

building. I presume that the alleged detective they allegedly left at the

scene was instructed to stand there until someone else stumbled upon the

scene, or they found time to report it after investigating the Tippit

scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.

I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle was found

because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to another

detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location was

found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with more

men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the

latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.

When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news

that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time

he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the

hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was

underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the

search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that

the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who

brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for

Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much

misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the

president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing

or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude

( towards) the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion

of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day

to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. I give an

account of this in JFK Facts.

We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or any other

evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz ordered all of

us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor and from there

we went to the roof.

Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our search back

down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor,

Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden

by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found.

In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure

next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with

the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down

and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and

Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the

rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for

all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day

immediately turned toward the window behind him and started dusting the

weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure formed by the

surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the rifle. He lifted

them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white cards. When he

had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz pulled the bolt

back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes below. Fritz put the

cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up anything other than

the live round.

I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled area

( the "sniper's nest") along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.

Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is

all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the

pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.

I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal can, wrapped

the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J. L'Hoste, who

was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not allowed in the

building. A. J. raced it to the television station which was about three

blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the murder weapon,

where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people dusting it for

fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those bullets. They

also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the view he had of

the killing zone.....""

End of quote..

"Pictures of the Pain "..page 537

Back at the station Aylea's fim was being processed as quickly as it arrived most of it being broadcast unedited..Sometime after 3.15 pm the first Alyea film was telecast. ..The one minute 45 second sequence was not the first Tom had taken as it shows the rifle already discovered , as well as 15 other short sequences including the snipers nest scene.A short time later a 25 second additional segment was shown looking from the inside first floor entrance through the closed door at the two cops on the steps is also projected. All told WFAA broadcast Alyea's films some 5 separate occasions. Not including replays some 34 scenes were show, including views of the police on the street below and the spectators corralled below on the opposite side of Elm, near the reflecting pool area.The total none repeated film totalled 4 minutes..12 seconds. A David Wolper documentary film included five other short clips by Alyea not seen on the WFAA telecasts of 1963. These clips show an additional 14 seconds of film.A still later televised series ,

"The Men Who Killed Kennedy" included additional film.Among these three sources are a total of 54 separate fim clips of approximately 5 minutes 26 1/2 seconds duration , all identifiable to Alyea..The clips include several other views of the southeats corner of the 6th floor and views of the rifle prior to its being picked up by Lt. Day.Alyea shot all of his fim ammounting to some 500 feet.But at the station this precious film was not looked upon as of any historical documentation..or even as possible investigative use, It was part of a news package and would be edited, cut up, and shown only with only the concern of telling a breaking news story.....

Alyea increduously remembers, "The news director had a bunch of it burned and I said, "Bob, don't burn anything ---this is history, we don't know what's going on there..."..He said if we can't use it on the news get it out of here.".So much film was piling up in the cramped editing room floor that the next day much of it was destroyed .Alyea recalls that in between assignments he would come in to have his new fim processed , and while there would pick up some of his discarded film, spin it on a reel and take it. He retained some of these clips, but bemoans the lose of other potentially historic film , "I could have shot Oswald coming out ---could have shown someone else coming out."

In Apri 1964...WFAA furnished to the FBI, upon it's request ,a dub of all the segments which survived and could be indentified as Alyea's..

Tom Ayea would film one final dramatic, though post shootong event..Scheduled on Sunday to cover a news conference by Mrs John Connally at Parkland Hospital, the gathered press learned that Oswald had been shot by a phone call to the press room. Many took off for Baylor or Methodist Hospitals which were closer to the city jail,.. Aylea on a hunch and others ran to Parkand's emergency entrance. His camera is running as a police cruiser rounds the circular drive followed by an ambulance which stops and, as a cop motions with his hand, the vehice backs under the canopy..Oswald's strecher is removed from the back amid much pandemonium .Attempting to follow the gurnet Alyea recalls, ......" the officers forced a human wall across the hallway and refused to let us pass."

In the crowded corridor Alyea could not see in front of him ..Another cameraman , Bob Welch , had a light attached to his camera ,and Alyea told him to shine the light on the cops' heads. As he did this, Alyea using the man's light, held his camera as high as possible and pushed his film button .."I coudn't see what I was shooting:..His flim includes Oswald being wheeled down the hall "I had filmed that, as well as the Doctors rushing from the emergency room to take Oswald from the police, and I hadn't even been sure that I'd gotten anything"..It was a real stroke of luck."..

Tom Alyea also covered the trial of Jack Ruby for WFAA and also filmed a day in the life of Marina Oswald.. In 1966 he moved to Lafette, Louisiana, beginning his own news service operation and publishing a bulletin relating to the oil and gas industry. Following the 1983 oil price depression, Alyea moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma ..An avid cartoonist with a flair for teaching, known as "Toma" to his audience, he produced several successful children's tapes on learning to make cartoons. It has only been in recent years he has become aware of all the misinformation concerning the assassination and now believes it important to help correct some of the factual errors ..

Alyea Clip...

Index of Photographers

Takes its sweet time loading...

http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

B..

Bernice,

Many thanks for your contributions. Reading through the above you see the huge amount of contradictions between the Tom Alyea version of events and the Dallas Police and Sheriff's Department version of events.

I was interested in the comment ".. crime scene peolpe who did not see the original positioning because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour later." An awful lot of law enforcement people would have had to have been lying for this to be true!

With regards to general timing of events, I was interested to find that the evidence envelope that contained the three spent cartridges had a time written on it. As I said in my article, when Captain Fritz saw the rifle he told Detective Sims to go and get Lieutenant Day to photograph the weapon. Sims found Day and helped him to get the spent cartridges fingerprinted and put into an evidence envelope. The two men then returned to where the rifle was found.

Lieutenant Day testifed to the Warren Commission that the date and time that Sims took charge of the envelope was written on the envelope. He told them that the writing says: November 22, 1963, 1:23pm

This is interesting because it does not appear to be an estimate to the nearest 5 or 10 minutes eg 1:20pm or 1:25pm etc. Putting it as 1:23pm suggests that the time was checked on a watch just before it was written.

see: http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol4/page256.php

This would suggest the the rifle was found about 1:20pm and that the crime scene officers must have been on the scene earlier than the 1:20pm time recorded in various statements mentioned earlier.

Tony

Edited May 26, 2010 by Tony Austin

[Mike Williams]

TONY FWIW AYLEA'S FIRST REPORT FROM CONNIE KRITZBERG'S BOOK, DEC.16/63..MAY BE OF HELP...FROM A POST A FEW YEARS BACK I MADE ON JFK RESEARCH...B

Thomas Aylea WFAA Newsman/Reporter..

Information from "Pictures of the Pain"..pages 520-521

Tom Aylea used a Bell & Howell 70 DR 16 mm camera, loaded with black and white film , it was an old camera and had the history of loosing the fim loop when being operated. He also grabbed three extra cans of of film along with the emergency roll he always carried in his back pocket.All told he had 500 feet of unprocessed film available to him .He and Ray John had been assigned on the 21st to cover the President's arrival and activities in Ft Worth.

While there around the Hotel Texas , his camera had broken down and he had been forced to borrow one, he returned it prior to his trip back to Dallas..The men took the WFAA news station wagon via Route 20 from Ft Worth to Dallas.with John driving.

The afternoon of the 22nd was to be spent at the station processing the film for the evening news.They arrived back in Dallas about 12.30 pm.and traveling East on Commerce within the Dealey Plaza area, John was preparing to make a right onto Houston Street to the WFAA station on Young Street. The newsmen had both the car's radio as well as the police band radios turned on. Not cognizant of the fact that they were only several hundred feet south of Elm St. when the remnants of the presidential motorcade was passing by, they were halted at a traffic light some eight cars lengths from Houston..

Alyea " We sat there listening to the parade coverage on the radio. I didn't even think to look across Dealey Plaza to the Depository.The first indication that anything had gone wrong came when we heard a voice on the police radio. It gave an unusual alert---" All units on Stemmons and Industrial, Code 3 Parkland"..Not associating the call with the President at first, the call was repeated, and within about 20 seconds the men heard WFAA commercial radio announcer, John Allen break in with the statement that shots had been fired at the President near Houston and Em.."We were still waiting for the traffic light to change: suddenly I realized where I was......

I grabbed Ray's camera, told him to take the other film on to the station , and I took off across Dealey for the Houston and Elm intersection . I fimed while running and, assuming that the shots came from the ground, I looked around and began shooting".

"I raced across Commerce and Main Sts. dodging traffic .On the far side of Elm I saw people rushing around, I had begun filming on the way as I crossed Main St. and as I was filming I was looking for police. They were not around. Some people were running towards the railroad tracks while others towards the monument area..I thought "There's nothing going on here"..and I went up to Ellm and Houston ,"Not knowing anything about the incident, and seeing little direct activity around the intersection, Alyea did notice several cops and one man looking up at the Depository Building, He fimed the entrance, and as six or seven plaincothesmen rushed in through the double entry door, Alyea followed unchallenged with Dallas Morning News reporter Ken Biffle directly behind him. As they got in, Alyea heard a fellow say, "Shut the door! Lock it ---no one in---no one out."..It would appear that Alyea arrived at the TSBD some time between 12.34 and 12.36pm....when there was still much confusion in front of the building and prior to the large scale uniformed police response to the police dispatch orders ..

Tom's story follows.....

Interview Dec. 16/63........

By Tom Alyea ..."The Facts and the Photos"..

From :Connie Kritzbergs..book

..

"Secrets From the Sixth Floor Window"....p.39...46

Editor's Note: Tom Aylea, the only newsman to join the initial police search team on the sixth-floor of the Texas School Book Depository on November 22,1963, denounces the disruption of the barricade fashioned of boxes as he first saw it.

Aylea, former WFAA ( owned by the Dallas Morning News ) newsman/reporter , who recorded the panic on Dealey Plaza explains that the positioning of boxes was destoryed before the general press with still cameras were allowed in the building .He had completed his work in photographing everything of note and returned to his station long before the building was opened to the general press.

He recorded three cartridges where they landed after they were ejected from the rifle, He recorded the rifle as it was found, before it was touched."...All such evidence was available from Tom through a prescription to his newsletter " JFK Facts" ..

""I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to

accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for

the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the

president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a

few uniformed officers.

I (followed ) the search team that was on its way to the rear elevator, to

start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all the way to

the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building. Finding

nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes, they were

joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland Hospital.

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows, extending in

an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and

second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5

ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the

floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were

scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were

located about half way between the inside of the barricade. I set my lens

focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the

camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went

into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view

finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens,

from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my

side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the

casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside

the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the

enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade

and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand

over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I

filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in

Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall

if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor,

because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I

have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of

Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the

first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he

was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell

casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is

staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that

appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings

that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a

plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link

in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to

stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and

photo records.

The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one who was

not there, is important because of the difference in photographs seen

today.

There are four different box positions.

There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably higher

than the others. This box is the one that can be seen in the photos taken

from outside the window by Tom Dillard, because it was high enough to

catch the sunlight and still be seen from the ground below. It is not to

be confused with the second box set at an angle in the window sill, that

was used as a brace for the assassin's rifle.

A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos taken by

Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand corner of the picture.

Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to give arm

support to the assassin. The top box was one of the two boxes from which

the crime lab lifted palm prints.

The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the sniper

location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this box. It is suspected

that the sniper sat on this box while he waited for the motorcade to pass.

The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police crime

lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.

The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by the

police. Its actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was

taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.

We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window with three

boxes piled could form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was actually on

the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for this that I

cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location consists of two

windows set together to form one single window. (The police photo showing

the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was staged later by crime

lab people who did not see the original positioning because they were not

called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour

later.

Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still cameraman on

the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where the rifle was

found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my understanding that Day and

Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and homemade sack back to police

headquarters. I personally would like to know what they were doing back at

the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots they had failed to take

during the primary investigation. But this evidence had been destroyed and

they were forced to create their own version. The photo I have seen of the

barricade wasn't even close. I have also seen recently a police photo of

the assassin's lair taken from a high angle which indicates that it was

shot before the barricade box arrangement was destroyed, but it did not

show the barricade itself. This has no bearing on the case other than the

public has never seen the original placement. I show it in my JFK Facts

newsletter.

Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the assassin's

window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at or near the

site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the floor near the

location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the barricade boxes, while

another reported that he saw chicken bones on the box which was laying

across the window sill. Some of these officers have given testimony as to

the location of the shell casings. Their testimony differs and none of it

is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to these statements. They

must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put it in a report and they

must stick to it.

One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the 6th floor

window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers were leaving

the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he stopped

briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's lair at the 6th

floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain Fritz joined

us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are great that

this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from WFAA-TV's

incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the 6th floor.

This officer or officers perhaps used this information to formulate their

presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found on the 6th floor.

We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that could possibly be

suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken bones, were no

chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the window. I shot

close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding puzzle as to why

these officers are sticking to this story is the fact they claim to have

found the sniper's location, then left the building, as they said to join

the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I have never seen a

report that indicates they attempted to use any telephone in the building

in an attempt to notify other investigators. They just left the scene to

check another assignment, and by chance ran into Capt. Fritz coming in the

front door. They claim to have placed a detective at the location but they

did not relay their finding to any other officer before they left the

building. I presume that the alleged detective they allegedly left at the

scene was instructed to stand there until someone else stumbled upon the

scene, or they found time to report it after investigating the Tippit

scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.

I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle was found

because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to another

detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location was

found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with more

men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the

latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.

When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news

that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time

he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the

hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was

underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the

search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that

the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who

brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for

Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much

misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the

president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing

or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude

( towards) the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion

of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day

to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. I give an

account of this in JFK Facts.

We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or any other

evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz ordered all of

us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor and from there

we went to the roof.

Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our search back

down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor,

Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden

by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found.

In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure

next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with

the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down

and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and

Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the

rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for

all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day

immediately turned toward the window behind him and started dusting the

weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure formed by the

surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the rifle. He lifted

them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white cards. When he

had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz pulled the bolt

back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes below. Fritz put the

cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up anything other than

the live round.

I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled area

( the "sniper's nest") along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.

Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is

all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the

pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.

I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal can, wrapped

the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J. L'Hoste, who

was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not allowed in the

building. A. J. raced it to the television station which was about three

blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the murder weapon,

where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people dusting it for

fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those bullets. They

also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the view he had of

the killing zone.....""

End of quote..

"Pictures of the Pain "..page 537

Back at the station Aylea's fim was being processed as quickly as it arrived most of it being broadcast unedited..Sometime after 3.15 pm the first Alyea film was telecast. ..The one minute 45 second sequence was not the first Tom had taken as it shows the rifle already discovered , as well as 15 other short sequences including the snipers nest scene.A short time later a 25 second additional segment was shown looking from the inside first floor entrance through the closed door at the two cops on the steps is also projected. All told WFAA broadcast Alyea's films some 5 separate occasions. Not including replays some 34 scenes were show, including views of the police on the street below and the spectators corralled below on the opposite side of Elm, near the reflecting pool area.The total none repeated film totalled 4 minutes..12 seconds. A David Wolper documentary film included five other short clips by Alyea not seen on the WFAA telecasts of 1963. These clips show an additional 14 seconds of film.A still later televised series ,

"The Men Who Killed Kennedy" included additional film.Among these three sources are a total of 54 separate fim clips of approximately 5 minutes 26 1/2 seconds duration , all identifiable to Alyea..The clips include several other views of the southeats corner of the 6th floor and views of the rifle prior to its being picked up by Lt. Day.Alyea shot all of his fim ammounting to some 500 feet.But at the station this precious film was not looked upon as of any historical documentation..or even as possible investigative use, It was part of a news package and would be edited, cut up, and shown only with only the concern of telling a breaking news story.....

Alyea increduously remembers, "The news director had a bunch of it burned and I said, "Bob, don't burn anything ---this is history, we don't know what's going on there..."..He said if we can't use it on the news get it out of here.".So much film was piling up in the cramped editing room floor that the next day much of it was destroyed .Alyea recalls that in between assignments he would come in to have his new fim processed , and while there would pick up some of his discarded film, spin it on a reel and take it. He retained some of these clips, but bemoans the lose of other potentially historic film , "I could have shot Oswald coming out ---could have shown someone else coming out."

In Apri 1964...WFAA furnished to the FBI, upon it's request ,a dub of all the segments which survived and could be indentified as Alyea's..

Tom Ayea would film one final dramatic, though post shootong event..Scheduled on Sunday to cover a news conference by Mrs John Connally at Parkland Hospital, the gathered press learned that Oswald had been shot by a phone call to the press room. Many took off for Baylor or Methodist Hospitals which were closer to the city jail,.. Aylea on a hunch and others ran to Parkand's emergency entrance. His camera is running as a police cruiser rounds the circular drive followed by an ambulance which stops and, as a cop motions with his hand, the vehice backs under the canopy..Oswald's strecher is removed from the back amid much pandemonium .Attempting to follow the gurnet Alyea recalls, ......" the officers forced a human wall across the hallway and refused to let us pass."

In the crowded corridor Alyea could not see in front of him ..Another cameraman , Bob Welch , had a light attached to his camera ,and Alyea told him to shine the light on the cops' heads. As he did this, Alyea using the man's light, held his camera as high as possible and pushed his film button .."I coudn't see what I was shooting:..His flim includes Oswald being wheeled down the hall "I had filmed that, as well as the Doctors rushing from the emergency room to take Oswald from the police, and I hadn't even been sure that I'd gotten anything"..It was a real stroke of luck."..

Tom Alyea also covered the trial of Jack Ruby for WFAA and also filmed a day in the life of Marina Oswald.. In 1966 he moved to Lafette, Louisiana, beginning his own news service operation and publishing a bulletin relating to the oil and gas industry. Following the 1983 oil price depression, Alyea moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma ..An avid cartoonist with a flair for teaching, known as "Toma" to his audience, he produced several successful children's tapes on learning to make cartoons. It has only been in recent years he has become aware of all the misinformation concerning the assassination and now believes it important to help correct some of the factual errors ..

Alyea Clip...

Index of Photographers

Takes its sweet time loading...

http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

B..

Bernice,

Many thanks for your contributions. Reading through the above you see the huge amount of contradictions between the Tom Alyea version of events and the Dallas Police and Sheriff's Department version of events.

I was interested in the comment ".. crime scene peolpe who did not see the original positioning because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour later." An awful lot of law enforcement people would have had been lying for this to be true!

With regards to general timing of events, I was interested to find that the evidence envelope that contained the three spent cartridges had a time written on it. As I said in my article, when Captain Fritz saw the rifle he told Detective Sims to go and get Lieutenant Day to photograph the weapon. Sims found Day and helped him to get the spent cartridges fingerprinted and put into an evidence envelope. The two men then returned to where the rifle was found.

Lieutenant Day testifed to the Warren Commission that the date and time that Sims took charge of the envelope was written on the envelope. He told them that the writing says: November 22, 1963, 1:23pm

This is interesting because it does not appear to be an estimate to the nearest 5 or 10 minutes eg 1:20pm or 1:25pm etc. Putting it as 1:23pm suggests that the time was checked on a watch just before it was written.

see: http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol4/page256.php

This would suggest the the rifle was found about 1:20pm and that the crime scene officers must have been on the scene earlier than the 1:20pm time recorded in various statements mentioned earlier.

Tony

If in fact we can verify that the watch that was looked at was accurate, which may be a huge assumption in 1963.

[David Josephs]

I believe that events happened much earlier as well as much later on the 6th floor.

Shells/Hulls and rifles were found in a variety of places, imo, and little by little I'd like to prove it.

IMO the key players are Hill, Sawyer, Alyea, Truly, Mooney and Boone… Roger Craig is not mentioned by a single one of these witnesses!

and the hulls were definitely found before 1:11 while the rifle had to have been found not much later... well before the official 1:22.

I’ve tried to keep a timeline going but there is a little jump around to substantiate my {thoughts}.

{Sawyer only receives the news of the hulls being found from someone who had found them... he never went up to the 6th floor. Someone came down and told Sawyer... who and when? Hill comes down sometime between 12:50 when he gets to the TSBD and 1:11 when Sawyer calls in the hulls being found.}

Dispatcher 10-4. 1:11 p.m.

9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On the 5th floor of this book company down here, we found empty rifle hulls and it looked like the man had been here for some time. We are checking it out now.

{Mike - Sawyer says the fifth, Hoover says the fifth, Alyea says the fifth, Mooney came up from the 5th to the 6th floor...

it also appears that the food and soda were also down on the 5th floor}

Mr. HILL. On that particular day, I was at the city hall in the personnel office, and did not have an assignment of any kind pertaining to the President's trip or any other function other than the investigation of police applicants.

Mr. BELIN. When did you leave the city hall?

….

{Hill con’t} I stood there for a minute and I heard a voice which I am almost sure was Inspector Sawyer---but being I didn't see a broadcast, I couldn't say for sure--- saying we think we have located the building where the shots were fired from at Elm and Houston Streets, and send us some help.

At this time I went back to the personnel office and told the captain that Inspector Sawyer requested assistance at Elm and Houston Streets. The captain said, "Go ahead and go." {Capt. W. R. Westbrook, who was my commander}

From the DPD transcripts

12:41 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) “We need some more men down at the Texas School Book Depository. We should have some on Main if we could get someone to pick up and bring them down here.”

{Meanwhile Fritz is on route to the hospital yet I thought it only took a few minutes to get to Parkland… they left at 12:33 and still in route at 12:41??}

12:41 Ch2 300 (Captain John Will Fritz) En route to the hospital.

12:47 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2

12:47 Dispatcher Go ahead 550.

12:47 550 car 2 550/2 and 104 en route to Elm and Houston, Code 3.

{Hill con’t}

We started out of the basement to get in his car, and a boy named Jim E. Well, with the Dallas Morning News, had parked his car in the basement and was walking up and asked what was going on, and we told him the President was shot.

And he said, "Where are you going?"

And we said, "Down to Elm and Houston where they think the shots came from."

And he said, "Could I go with you?"

So we took him in the back seat of the car. And I don't remember what the number was.

We came out of the basement on Commerce, went to Central, turned left, went over on Elm, ran into a traffic jam on Elm, went down as far as Pearl Street and turned back to the left on Pearl and went to Jackson Street, went west on Jackson to Houston Street, and turned back to the right and pulled up in front of the Book Depository at Elm and Houston, Jumped out of the car and Inspector Sawyer was there.

I asked him did he have enough men outside to cover the building properly, and he said, "Yes; I believe so."

And I said, "Are you ready for us to go in and shake it down?"

And he said, "Yes, let's go in and check it out."

About this time Captain Fritz and two or three more detectives from homicide. a boy named Roy Westphal, who works for the special service bureau, and a couple of uniformed officers, and a couple of deputy sheriffs came up.

{came up as in “to the front of the TSBD” or up into the building?? In wither case we can assume this happens at 12:58}

Mr. FRITZ. Well, sir; we arrived there---we arrived at the hospital at 12:45, if you want that time, and at the scene of the offense at 12:58.

Mr. BALL. 12:58; the Texas School Book Depository Building.

Mr. FRITZ. Yes.

…

Mr. BALL - And who were you with?

Mr. BOONE - Officer Mooney was out there, I believe, and several of the office personnel, women in the office, clerk-typist and what have you. Ralph Walters, Buddy Walthers, Allen Sweatt, L. C. Smith. Officer Gramstaff. That is about all I can remember.

Mr. BALL - What happened there?

Mr. BOONE – Well, it was approximately 1 o'clock when we heard the shots.

{AND THIS IS THE MAN WE ARE TRUSTING WITH THE 1:22 TIMING OF FINDING THE RIFLE??}

The motorcade had already passed by us and turned back to the north on Houston Street. And we heard what we thought to be a shot. And there seemed to be a pause between the first shot and the second shot and third shots--a little longer pause. And we raced across the street there.

Mr. BALL - Did you go up into the building then?

Mr. BOONE – I took him {Bowers} on over to the sheriff's office, and placed him in the sheriff's office, took his camera, to bring it back to the ID Bureau to be developed. Placed him in the sheriff's office at that time to await somebody to take a statement from him.

Then some other officers, Ralph Walters and Officer Gramstaff, and I don't know whether—I don't remember Officer Mooney was with them or not at that time they headed back to get some heavy power flashlights. They said they wanted to look around in the attic. And there were a bunch of pallets, that they moved the books around, and it was dark and they couldn't see. So we got the lights and went over to the building.

At that time, we proceeded directly to the sixth floor.

Mr. BALL - Somebody tell you to go to the sixth floor?

Mr. BOONE - Well, that is just where everybody was going. And they said five floors below that--I believe Inspector Sawyer with the city was out there, and he said the other floors were in the process of being searched or had been already searched. This was after Officer Mooney found the shells.

Mr. BALL - Did somebody tell you Officer Mooney had found some shells?

Mr. BOONE - Not him in particular. They said the shells had been found on the sixth floor. At that time, I didn't know he had found them.

{Boone places the shots at 1pm, is back at the sheriff’s office, gets back to the TSBD and knows that Mooney found the hulls, just as Hill describes… yet not nearly as late as Boone is trying to say. Mike is not so far off… Boone’s watch was 30 minutes fast!!}

{Mr. Hill’s action while Fritz is “running back and forth from floor to floor”}

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. HILL. Left the uniformed officer there, and these two deputies* and I went down to sixth. I started to the right side of the building.

Mr. BELIN. When you say the right side, you mean----

Mr. HILL. Well, it would have been the west side.

Mr. BELIN. All right, they moved over to the east side?

Mr. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect. I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window. Two small boxes with Roller books on the side of the carton were stacked near the east side of the window.

Mr. FRITZ. We began searching the floors, looking for anyone with a gun or looked suspicious, and we searched through hurriedly through most all the floors.

Mr. McCLOY. Which floor did you start with?

Mr. FRITZ. We started at the bottom; yes, sir. And, of course, and I think we went up probably to the top.

Different people would call me when they would find something that looked like something I should know about and I ran back and forth from floor to floor as we were searching, and it wasn't very long until someone called me and told me they wanted me to come to the front window, the corner window, they had found some empty cartridges.

Mr. BALL. That was on the sixth floor?

Mr. FRITZ. That is right; the sixth floor, corner window.

Mr. BALL. What did you do?

Mr. FRITZ. I told them not to move the cartridges, not to touch anything until we could get the crime lab to take pictures of them just as they were lying there and I left an officer assigned there to see that that was done, and the crime lab came almost immediately, and took pictures, and dusted the shelfs for prints.

Mr. BALL. Which officers, which officer did you leave there?

Mr. FRITZ. Carl Day was the man I talked to about taking pictures.

{So this MUST occur between 12:58 and 1:11, more realistically between 1:03 and 1:09 since it takes time for Hill to get up and down to the 6th floor and for Fritz to also get to the 6th floor yet we know Hill tells Sawyer about the hulls BEFORE the 1:11 transmission}

{This begins to conflict with Truly’s story about going up to talk to Fritz about Oswald BEFORE 1pm yet he does feel as if the rifle was found when he gets there}

Mr. BALL. While you were there Mr. Truly came up to you?

Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; where the rifle was found. That was about the time we finished Mr. Truly came and told me that one of his employees had left the building, and I asked his name and he gave me his name, Lee Harvey Oswald, and I asked his address and he gave me the Irving address.

Mr. BALL. This was after the rifle was found?

Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; after the rifle was found.

Mr. BALL. Another witness has testified that the rifle was found at 1:22 p.m., does that about accord with your figures or your memory?

Mr. FRITZ. Let's see, I might have that here. I don't think I have that time.

Mr. BALL. Do you have the time at which the shells were found?

Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; I don't have that time.

{Truly has a very hard time with the time being at least 1:22 when he went up… he went in with Baker, ran up the stairs to the roof and came back down again to learn that Oswald was gone (see my previous post for statements) met with Lumpkin and was taken immediately up to Fritz.

{Hill con't} Now you identified them to me the other day, the two boys that were on the sixth floor from the sheriff's office.

Mr. BELIN. I think when we chatted briefly the other day, *I believe I said Boone and Mooney. Does that sound familiar?

Mr. HILL. I wouldn't know, but I know they identified themselves to us as deputy sheriffs, and some more people knew them.

{At some point after the hulls are found Hill meets Fritz at the elevator after Fritz had started on the first floor to work his way up... Hill and others - Boone, Mooney and ? went to the 7th floor and worked down (supposedly Alyea was working his way up with Fritz) . }

Mr. HILL:….

…When I got toward the back, at this time I heard the freight elevator moving, and I went back to the back of the building to either catch the freight elevator or the stairs, and Captain Fritz and his men were coming up on the elevator. I told him what we found and pointed out the general area, pointed out the deputies to them, and told him also that I was going to make sure the crime lab was en route.

{This takes a couple of minutes… so yes, Fritz is in the building when the hulls are found but is NOT on the 6th floor at the time not is he outside with Decker as Mooney claims yet as a Deputy Sheriff Mooney had to be more concerned with alerting Decker than Fritz… he could have assumed Fritz was simply with Decker yet may not have seen him.}

Sawyer’s transmission at 1:11

Dispatcher 10-4. 1:11 p.m.

9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On the 5th floor of this book company down here, we found empty rifle hulls and it looked like the man had been here for some time. We are checking it out now.

Mr. BELIN. We will call this Sawyer's Deposition Exhibit B.

I see here that you go on at 12:45 p.m., with this statement by your No. 9. You want to read it?

Mr. SAWYER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. "From this building it is unknown if he is still there or not. Unknown if he was there in the first place."

Mr. BELIN. Then it reads back here, "All the information we have received, indicates it did come from the fifth or fourth of that building." That is the central headquarters back to you, is that it?

Mr. SAWYER. That's right.

Mr. BELIN. That is at least after 12:45 p.m., and before 12:48 p.m.?

Mr. SAWYER. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Now looking down on this log until the next time your number appears, is 1:12 p.m. What does that say?

Mr. SAWYER. "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor and from all indications the man had been there for some time."

Mr. BELIN. Then is there anything else?

Mr. SAWYER. This was reported to me by somebody inside the building.

Mr. BELIN. That was at 1:12 p.m., that the hulls were found, or at least shortly prior to that? This doesn't say anything else. It apparently doesn't go in detail much past 1:58 p.m., on Sawyer Deposition. Exhibit B, and 1:53 p.m., on Sawyer's Deposition Exhibit A.

Mr. SAWYER. That's right.

."

From the Logs:

12:45 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On this building, it's unknown whether he is still in the building or not known if he was there in the first place.

1:11 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On the fifth floor of this book company down here, we found empty rifle hulls and it looked like the man had been here for some time. We are checking it out now.

{as an aside... It's between 12:58 and 1:12 or so that Tippet is murdered}

{Hill’s testimony later on}

I was talking to Inspector Sawyer, telling him what we found, when Sgt. C. B. Owens of Oak Cliff--he was the senior sergeant out there that day, and actually acting lieutenant--came up and wanted to know what' we wanted him to do, being that he had been dispatched to the scene.

Mr. BELIN. Let me stop you right there. Who dispatched him to the scene?

Mr. HILL. Apparently the dispatcher. Now his call number that day could have been 19.

Mr. BELIN. Okay, go ahead, Sergeant Hill.

Mr. HILL. We were standing there with Inspector Sawyer and Assistant District Attorney Bill Alexander came up to us, and we had been standing there for a minute when we heard the strange voice on the police radio {1:16 transmission} that said something to the effect that, if I remember right, either the first call that came out said that they were in the 400 block of East Jefferson, and that an officer had been shot, and the voice on the radio, whoever it was, said he thought he was dead.

{G.L. Hill helps find the hulls and winds up in the car with the .38 revolver in his hands, not 20 minutes before the shells he was shown provided a different result}

Mr. BELIN. Now I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit 143. Would you state if you know what this is?

Mr. HILL. This is a .38 caliber revolver, Smith & Wesson, with a 2" barrel that would contain six shells. It is an older gun that has been blue steeled, and has a worn wooden handle.

1:26 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 500/2.

1:26 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) I'm at Twelfth and Beckley now. Have a man in the car with me that can identify the suspect if anybody gets him.

1:34 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:34 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol.

1:46 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:46 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Do you have any additional information on this Oak Cliff suspect?

1:46 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 10-4.

1:52 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:52 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Suspect on the shooting the police officer is apprehended and en route to the station.

1:52 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Caught him on the lower floor of the Texas Theater after a fight.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 223 is in the car with us. See if someone can pick up his car at the rear of the Texas Theater and take it to the station. It's got the keys in it.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) We're bringing the prisoner straight to the City Hall.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Special Service unit is with us also. We're in his car, 492.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Zangs and Colorado.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Yes, sir. Him and his gun.

{On the drive back }

Mr. HILL. That was the second question that was asked the suspect, and he didn't answer it, either.

About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."

Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.

I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card.

And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.

Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell?

Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard.

Mr. BELIN. Was this the first time you learned of the name?

Mr. HILL. Yes; it was.

{I believe the hulls were found by 1:03 or 1:04, Mooney yells out to Decker and mistakenly says Fritz was also down there

Hill looks out the window for Fritz (possibly) and decides to go down and find him...

Fritz arrives at the 6th floor about 1:05/1:06 and does his thing... (I am positive there is testimony about the surprise at least one observer has to Fritz picking the hulls up... just need to find it)

The rifle is found soon after (Hill says nothing about the rifle, he's on his way towards Oak Cliff)

I hope I got this post correct as I've moved stuff around and been doing quite a bit of research at the same time.

My memory is pretty good about detail yet I like to have the source material handy.

DJ

[Mike Williams]

If in fact we can verify that the watch that was looked at was accurate, which may be a huge assumption in 1963.

Mike. That's poor. That's very very poor.

Why would that be poor Lee? If in fact we are using the watch as a time stamp to verify important events, should we not consider the accuracy that represents?

Of course we should.

[Mike Williams]

I believe that events happened much earlier as well as much later on the 6th floor.

Shells/Hulls and rifles were found in a variety of places, imo, and little by little I'd like to prove it.

IMO the key players are Hill, Sawyer, Alyea, Truly, Mooney and Boone… Roger Craig is not mentioned by a single one of these witnesses!

and the hulls were definitely found before 1:11 while the rifle had to have been found not much later... well before the official 1:22.

I’ve tried to keep a timeline going but there is a little jump around to substantiate my {thoughts}.

{Sawyer only receives the news of the hulls being found from someone who had found them... he never went up to the 6th floor. Someone came down and told Sawyer... who and when? Hill comes down sometime between 12:50 when he gets to the TSBD and 1:11 when Sawyer calls in the hulls being found.}

Dispatcher 10-4. 1:11 p.m.

9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On the 5th floor of this book company down here, we found empty rifle hulls and it looked like the man had been here for some time. We are checking it out now.

{Mike - Sawyer says the fifth, Hoover says the fifth, Alyea says the fifth, Mooney came up from the 5th to the 6th floor...

it also appears that the food and soda were also down on the 5th floor}

Mr. HILL. On that particular day, I was at the city hall in the personnel office, and did not have an assignment of any kind pertaining to the President's trip or any other function other than the investigation of police applicants.

Mr. BELIN. When did you leave the city hall?

….

{Hill con’t} I stood there for a minute and I heard a voice which I am almost sure was Inspector Sawyer---but being I didn't see a broadcast, I couldn't say for sure--- saying we think we have located the building where the shots were fired from at Elm and Houston Streets, and send us some help.

At this time I went back to the personnel office and told the captain that Inspector Sawyer requested assistance at Elm and Houston Streets. The captain said, "Go ahead and go." {Capt. W. R. Westbrook, who was my commander}

From the DPD transcripts

12:41 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) “We need some more men down at the Texas School Book Depository. We should have some on Main if we could get someone to pick up and bring them down here.”

{Meanwhile Fritz is on route to the hospital yet I thought it only took a few minutes to get to Parkland… they left at 12:33 and still in route at 12:41??}

12:41 Ch2 300 (Captain John Will Fritz) En route to the hospital.

12:47 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2

12:47 Dispatcher Go ahead 550.

12:47 550 car 2 550/2 and 104 en route to Elm and Houston, Code 3.

{Hill con’t}

We started out of the basement to get in his car, and a boy named Jim E. Well, with the Dallas Morning News, had parked his car in the basement and was walking up and asked what was going on, and we told him the President was shot.

And he said, "Where are you going?"

And we said, "Down to Elm and Houston where they think the shots came from."

And he said, "Could I go with you?"

So we took him in the back seat of the car. And I don't remember what the number was.

We came out of the basement on Commerce, went to Central, turned left, went over on Elm, ran into a traffic jam on Elm, went down as far as Pearl Street and turned back to the left on Pearl and went to Jackson Street, went west on Jackson to Houston Street, and turned back to the right and pulled up in front of the Book Depository at Elm and Houston, Jumped out of the car and Inspector Sawyer was there.

I asked him did he have enough men outside to cover the building properly, and he said, "Yes; I believe so."

And I said, "Are you ready for us to go in and shake it down?"

And he said, "Yes, let's go in and check it out."

About this time Captain Fritz and two or three more detectives from homicide. a boy named Roy Westphal, who works for the special service bureau, and a couple of uniformed officers, and a couple of deputy sheriffs came up.

{came up as in “to the front of the TSBD” or up into the building?? In wither case we can assume this happens at 12:58}

Mr. FRITZ. Well, sir; we arrived there---we arrived at the hospital at 12:45, if you want that time, and at the scene of the offense at 12:58.

Mr. BALL. 12:58; the Texas School Book Depository Building.

Mr. FRITZ. Yes.

…

Mr. BALL - And who were you with?

Mr. BOONE - Officer Mooney was out there, I believe, and several of the office personnel, women in the office, clerk-typist and what have you. Ralph Walters, Buddy Walthers, Allen Sweatt, L. C. Smith. Officer Gramstaff. That is about all I can remember.

Mr. BALL - What happened there?

Mr. BOONE – Well, it was approximately 1 o'clock when we heard the shots.

{AND THIS IS THE MAN WE ARE TRUSTING WITH THE 1:22 TIMING OF FINDING THE RIFLE??}

The motorcade had already passed by us and turned back to the north on Houston Street. And we heard what we thought to be a shot. And there seemed to be a pause between the first shot and the second shot and third shots--a little longer pause. And we raced across the street there.

Mr. BALL - Did you go up into the building then?

Mr. BOONE – I took him {Bowers} on over to the sheriff's office, and placed him in the sheriff's office, took his camera, to bring it back to the ID Bureau to be developed. Placed him in the sheriff's office at that time to await somebody to take a statement from him.

Then some other officers, Ralph Walters and Officer Gramstaff, and I don't know whether—I don't remember Officer Mooney was with them or not at that time they headed back to get some heavy power flashlights. They said they wanted to look around in the attic. And there were a bunch of pallets, that they moved the books around, and it was dark and they couldn't see. So we got the lights and went over to the building.

At that time, we proceeded directly to the sixth floor.

Mr. BALL - Somebody tell you to go to the sixth floor?

Mr. BOONE - Well, that is just where everybody was going. And they said five floors below that--I believe Inspector Sawyer with the city was out there, and he said the other floors were in the process of being searched or had been already searched. This was after Officer Mooney found the shells.

Mr. BALL - Did somebody tell you Officer Mooney had found some shells?

Mr. BOONE - Not him in particular. They said the shells had been found on the sixth floor. At that time, I didn't know he had found them.

{Boone places the shots at 1pm, is back at the sheriff’s office, gets back to the TSBD and knows that Mooney found the hulls, just as Hill describes… yet not nearly as late as Boone is trying to say. Mike is not so far off… Boone’s watch was 30 minutes fast!!}

{Mr. Hill’s action while Fritz is “running back and forth from floor to floor”}

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. HILL. Left the uniformed officer there, and these two deputies* and I went down to sixth. I started to the right side of the building.

Mr. BELIN. When you say the right side, you mean----

Mr. HILL. Well, it would have been the west side.

Mr. BELIN. All right, they moved over to the east side?

Mr. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect. I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window. Two small boxes with Roller books on the side of the carton were stacked near the east side of the window.

Mr. FRITZ. We began searching the floors, looking for anyone with a gun or looked suspicious, and we searched through hurriedly through most all the floors.

Mr. McCLOY. Which floor did you start with?

Mr. FRITZ. We started at the bottom; yes, sir. And, of course, and I think we went up probably to the top.

Different people would call me when they would find something that looked like something I should know about and I ran back and forth from floor to floor as we were searching, and it wasn't very long until someone called me and told me they wanted me to come to the front window, the corner window, they had found some empty cartridges.

Mr. BALL. That was on the sixth floor?

Mr. FRITZ. That is right; the sixth floor, corner window.

Mr. BALL. What did you do?

Mr. FRITZ. I told them not to move the cartridges, not to touch anything until we could get the crime lab to take pictures of them just as they were lying there and I left an officer assigned there to see that that was done, and the crime lab came almost immediately, and took pictures, and dusted the shelfs for prints.

Mr. BALL. Which officers, which officer did you leave there?

Mr. FRITZ. Carl Day was the man I talked to about taking pictures.

{So this MUST occur between 12:58 and 1:11, more realistically between 1:03 and 1:09 since it takes time for Hill to get up and down to the 6th floor and for Fritz to also get to the 6th floor yet we know Hill tells Sawyer about the hulls BEFORE the 1:11 transmission}

{This begins to conflict with Truly’s story about going up to talk to Fritz about Oswald BEFORE 1pm yet he does feel as if the rifle was found when he gets there}

Mr. BALL. While you were there Mr. Truly came up to you?

Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; where the rifle was found. That was about the time we finished Mr. Truly came and told me that one of his employees had left the building, and I asked his name and he gave me his name, Lee Harvey Oswald, and I asked his address and he gave me the Irving address.

Mr. BALL. This was after the rifle was found?

Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; after the rifle was found.

Mr. BALL. Another witness has testified that the rifle was found at 1:22 p.m., does that about accord with your figures or your memory?

Mr. FRITZ. Let's see, I might have that here. I don't think I have that time.

Mr. BALL. Do you have the time at which the shells were found?

Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; I don't have that time.

{Truly has a very hard time with the time being at least 1:22 when he went up… he went in with Baker, ran up the stairs to the roof and came back down again to learn that Oswald was gone (see my previous post for statements) met with Lumpkin and was taken immediately up to Fritz.

{Hill con't} Now you identified them to me the other day, the two boys that were on the sixth floor from the sheriff's office.

Mr. BELIN. I think when we chatted briefly the other day, *I believe I said Boone and Mooney. Does that sound familiar?

Mr. HILL. I wouldn't know, but I know they identified themselves to us as deputy sheriffs, and some more people knew them.

{At some point after the hulls are found Hill meets Fritz at the elevator after Fritz had started on the first floor to work his way up... Hill and others - Boone, Mooney and ? went to the 7th floor and worked down (supposedly Alyea was working his way up with Fritz) . }

Mr. HILL:….

…When I got toward the back, at this time I heard the freight elevator moving, and I went back to the back of the building to either catch the freight elevator or the stairs, and Captain Fritz and his men were coming up on the elevator. I told him what we found and pointed out the general area, pointed out the deputies to them, and told him also that I was going to make sure the crime lab was en route.

{This takes a couple of minutes… so yes, Fritz is in the building when the hulls are found but is NOT on the 6th floor at the time not is he outside with Decker as Mooney claims yet as a Deputy Sheriff Mooney had to be more concerned with alerting Decker than Fritz… he could have assumed Fritz was simply with Decker yet may not have seen him.}

Sawyer’s transmission at 1:11

Dispatcher 10-4. 1:11 p.m.

9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On the 5th floor of this book company down here, we found empty rifle hulls and it looked like the man had been here for some time. We are checking it out now.

Mr. BELIN. We will call this Sawyer's Deposition Exhibit B.

I see here that you go on at 12:45 p.m., with this statement by your No. 9. You want to read it?

Mr. SAWYER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. "From this building it is unknown if he is still there or not. Unknown if he was there in the first place."

Mr. BELIN. Then it reads back here, "All the information we have received, indicates it did come from the fifth or fourth of that building." That is the central headquarters back to you, is that it?

Mr. SAWYER. That's right.

Mr. BELIN. That is at least after 12:45 p.m., and before 12:48 p.m.?

Mr. SAWYER. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Now looking down on this log until the next time your number appears, is 1:12 p.m. What does that say?

Mr. SAWYER. "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor and from all indications the man had been there for some time."

Mr. BELIN. Then is there anything else?

Mr. SAWYER. This was reported to me by somebody inside the building.

Mr. BELIN. That was at 1:12 p.m., that the hulls were found, or at least shortly prior to that? This doesn't say anything else. It apparently doesn't go in detail much past 1:58 p.m., on Sawyer Deposition. Exhibit B, and 1:53 p.m., on Sawyer's Deposition Exhibit A.

Mr. SAWYER. That's right.

."

From the Logs:

12:45 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On this building, it's unknown whether he is still in the building or not known if he was there in the first place.

1:11 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On the fifth floor of this book company down here, we found empty rifle hulls and it looked like the man had been here for some time. We are checking it out now.

{as an aside... It's between 12:58 and 1:12 or so that Tippet is murdered}

{Hill’s testimony later on}

I was talking to Inspector Sawyer, telling him what we found, when Sgt. C. B. Owens of Oak Cliff--he was the senior sergeant out there that day, and actually acting lieutenant--came up and wanted to know what' we wanted him to do, being that he had been dispatched to the scene.

Mr. BELIN. Let me stop you right there. Who dispatched him to the scene?

Mr. HILL. Apparently the dispatcher. Now his call number that day could have been 19.

Mr. BELIN. Okay, go ahead, Sergeant Hill.

Mr. HILL. We were standing there with Inspector Sawyer and Assistant District Attorney Bill Alexander came up to us, and we had been standing there for a minute when we heard the strange voice on the police radio {1:16 transmission} that said something to the effect that, if I remember right, either the first call that came out said that they were in the 400 block of East Jefferson, and that an officer had been shot, and the voice on the radio, whoever it was, said he thought he was dead.

{G.L. Hill helps find the hulls and winds up in the car with the .38 revolver in his hands, not 20 minutes before the shells he was shown provided a different result}

Mr. BELIN. Now I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit 143. Would you state if you know what this is?

Mr. HILL. This is a .38 caliber revolver, Smith & Wesson, with a 2" barrel that would contain six shells. It is an older gun that has been blue steeled, and has a worn wooden handle.

1:26 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 500/2.

1:26 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) I'm at Twelfth and Beckley now. Have a man in the car with me that can identify the suspect if anybody gets him.

1:34 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:34 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol.

1:46 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:46 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Do you have any additional information on this Oak Cliff suspect?

1:46 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 10-4.

1:52 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:52 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Suspect on the shooting the police officer is apprehended and en route to the station.

1:52 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Caught him on the lower floor of the Texas Theater after a fight.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 223 is in the car with us. See if someone can pick up his car at the rear of the Texas Theater and take it to the station. It's got the keys in it.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) We're bringing the prisoner straight to the City Hall.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) 550/2.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Special Service unit is with us also. We're in his car, 492.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Zangs and Colorado.

1:53 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Yes, sir. Him and his gun.

{On the drive back }

Mr. HILL. That was the second question that was asked the suspect, and he didn't answer it, either.

About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."

Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.

I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card.

And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.

Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell?

Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard.

Mr. BELIN. Was this the first time you learned of the name?

Mr. HILL. Yes; it was.

{I believe the hulls were found by 1:03 or 1:04, Mooney yells out to Decker and mistakenly says Fritz was also down there

Hill looks out the window for Fritz (possibly) and decides to go down and find him...

Fritz arrives at the 6th floor about 1:05/1:06 and does his thing... (I am positive there is testimony about the surprise at least one observer has to Fritz picking the hulls up... just need to find it)

The rifle is found soon after (Hill says nothing about the rifle, he's on his way towards Oak Cliff)

I hope I got this post correct as I've moved stuff around and been doing quite a bit of research at the same time.

My memory is pretty good about detail yet I like to have the source material handy.

DJ

Let me read through this a bit and try to make hide nor hair of this time line.

On the envelope with the casings it would have been Sims who recorded the time and date, I'm not quite sure what this has to do with Boone?

If the first record of transmission about the shells is t 1:11, then why do you believe they were found at 103 or 104? Do you really think that they would have waited almost 10 minutes to transmit this information?

Edited May 26, 2010 by Mike Williams