Moorman photo chain of evidence

[David Josephs]

http://1078567.sites.myregisteredsite.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=3&topic_id=88324&mesg_id=88324&page=&topic_page=1

Over at Lancer there has been discussion about Moorman being altered to hide the BOH exiting of a shot while some have even tried to show what may be 2 different versions of the photo, pre and post alteration....

The only thing I've found so far is this piece of Moorman's Clay Shaw testimony

Q: Now, Mrs. Moorman, I show you what for purposes of identification I have marked State 52, however prior to showing you this exhibit I would ask you what happened if anything to your photograph after you took it.

A: Immediately after taking this photograph there was a matter of confusion and I did cross the street and a man came up to me and asked me if I --

MR. DYMOND: Object to anything a man may have said.

THE COURT: Don't tell us what anyone told you but you may tell us what you did.

THE WITNESS: I was asked to remove --

MR. DYMOND: I object to what was asked, Your Honor.

THE COURT: It is a good objection. Someone said something to you and what did you do as a result of what the person said to you?

THE WITNESS: I removed the picture out of the camera.

BY MR. ALFORD:

Q: What did you do then with the picture?

MOORMAN

A: I looked at it.

Q: Did this photograph remain in your possession from the time you took it until today?

A: No, it did not.

Q: Whose possession other than yourself has this photograph been?

A: A reporter and the Secret Service and the FBI that I know of.

and they wouldn't let her answer who came up to her or what they said, only what she did.

Has a COE been established for Moorman?

Could it have been altered...

Does it look altered to anyone?

imo - the photo was taken just BEFORE the shot(s) and could not show damage to JFK... based on what Mary says...

She stated in the interview "I took the picture,

heard the shots and then it was time to fall on the ground."

and from her affidavit

As I snapped the picture of President Kennedy, I heard a shot ring out.

[Jonathan Cohen]

>Over at Lancer there has been discussion about Moorman being altered to hide the BOH exiting of a shot while some have even tried to show what may be 2 different >versions of the photo, pre and post alteration....

David, I don't think this photo could possibly have been altered. It ran over newswires within hours of the assassination, if I'm not mistaken, and there are also photos of the original taken that day. I'd love to hear from a pro-alterationist how it could have been tampered with in the time allotted.

[Jack White]

The Moorman photo is PROVABLY ALTERED. Just what ALL was changed is not known.

Neither is the chain of custody nor the persons involved nor the time frame.

It is known that Jim Featherston is the person who first looked at the photo, as Mary

testified.

The known provable alteration seems related to Zapruder rather than JFK.

Jack

[Robin Unger]

Mrs. MOORMAN advises that the photograph she took showing the police motorcycles preceeding President KENNEDY's car and also showing the Texas School Book Depository Building was given by her to Secret Service Agents JOHN JOE HOWLETT and BILL PATTERSON shortly before 4:00 p.m. November 22, 1963. The second photograph taken at the time she heard the shots showed the President slumping sideways in the automobile. She furnished this photograph to Bureau Agents.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce1426.htm

[Craig Lamson]

The Moorman photo is PROVABLY ALTERED. Just what ALL was changed is not known.

Neither is the chain of custody nor the persons involved nor the time frame.

It is known that Jim Featherston is the person who first looked at the photo, as Mary

testified.

The known provable alteration seems related to Zapruder rather than JFK.

Jack

LOL! PROVABLY! LOL!

[David Josephs]

Mrs. MOORMAN advises that the photograph she took showing the police motorcycles preceeding President KENNEDY's car and also showing the Texas School Book Depository Building was given by her to Secret Service Agents JOHN JOE HOWLETT and BILL PATTERSON shortly before 4:00 p.m. November 22, 1963. The second photograph taken at the time she heard the shots showed the President slumping sideways in the automobile. She furnished this photograph to Bureau Agents.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce1426.htm

Thanks Robin...

Did a look thru Survivor's Guilt hoping to get some clarification about Howlett and Patterson... this is what I found

and it seems Sorrels gets his hands on THE moorman photo... but I have yet to do my digging...

Do we know how and when Moorman gives Sorrels the photo?

And based on this write-up... how do Howlett and Patterson get to Moorman and the photo that disappeared?

Agent John Joe Howlett (Dallas Office agent, stationed at the Trade Mart): Howlett, a Dallas office agent stationed at the Trade Mart on November 22, 1963, merely detailed his Secret Service career in a short but cordial letter to the author dated November 26, 1997. (For the record: V.P. LBJ Detail, October–November 1962; transferred to the Dallas office, February 1963; temporarily as-signed to Chief's office, January 27–31, 1964, February 3–5, 1964, April 14–15, 1964; several temporary assignments at LBJ Ranch, 1963–8; temporary mem-ber of WHD in June/July 1968). Agent Howlett’s job during the Warren Com-mission’s investigation was to see if Oswald could have done in the first few seconds what the Commission claimed he did, involving a couple tests of Howlett carrying the rifle from the southeast corner of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, placing the rifle down, then alternately walking and “fast walking” down the stairway to the second-floor landing and entering the lunchroom where Oswald encountered DPD Officer Marrion Baker. Both tests barely met and possibly slightly exceeded Oswald’s real time, assuming, of course, that he did what the Commission claimed he did in the first place.37 Howlett also testified briefly before the Warren Commission—as Counsel Albert Jenner put it, “… you have been present throughout my examination of Mrs. Paine and my examination of the premises, and you have assisted me … In making measurements and also in recounting the appearance of rooms, front lawn, garage, and otherwise ….”38 By the time of the HSCA hearings, Howlett was working in the Little Rock, Arkansas office.39

Conclusion: Howlett did his job the best that he could.

Agent William H. Patterson (Dallas Office agent, stationed at Love Field): SA Patterson’s November 25, 1963 report contains the following: “During the interview of the subject’s wife [Marina Oswald] she advised that the FBI had contacted her about the location of her husband about 10 days prior to the as-sassination and she told them that her husband worked in the building from which the President was killed [note: as written, this is ridiculous]. She also stated that she had been interviewed in October and gave the same basic in-formation to the FBI. While I was at the police station, I engaged an FBI agent in a conversation and found out that he was on the subversive desk. He stated that Oswald had contacted two known subversive agents about 15 days before the shooting but the entire information was top secret and he could not tell us any more but he felt sure that the file would be turned over to our Chief [Row-ley]. The wife also advised that she had seen the rifle that was used in the shooting at her home about three weeks before the shooting. She advised that she was a Castro supporter and from the interview it was felt that she is still a hard core communist. She stated that he [Oswald] had never mentioned killing the President but would not mention anything about shooting Connally. She stated that she did not know the man that killed her husband [Ruby]. It was felt by the interviewer [Patterson] that she was not telling the truth and still believed in communism.”64 [Emphasis added.] In addition to the fact that Marina barely spoke English and no interpreter is listed as being present in Patterson’s report, Marina has never said that she was a Castro supporter or a hard core commu-nist; exactly what she allegedly was not “telling the truth” about is hard to dis-cern from the agent’s report. The information about Oswald, if true, is startling, in and of itself. The FBI’s early knowledge about Oswald is an undisputable matter of record.

Conclusion: Patterson’s reporting leaves a lot to be desired.

Agent Sorrels was responsible for the Secret Service’s acquisition of the Zapruder film, the Orville Nix film (again, Nix was a friend of Sorrels), the Moorman photo, and the Phil Willis photos—in short, the major photographic evidence in the case.107

DJ

[John Dolva]

also Sorrels was close to Harry Holmes, and I understand that Nix worked in the PO too? Harry was FBI informant DA T7, USPO-PI. I often wonder, to no avail, what has become of the defunct USPO-PI internal documentation. FOIAs?