Hear No Evil by Don Thomas

[Pat Speer]

Thanks. Something told me he'd moved it from the HSCA's 160. But it's to no avail, Jerry. Let's say I'm off by ten frames, and that that Hughes frame equates to Z-150. Let's say the first shot does ring out at Z-175. That's a second and a half, Jerry. Is there any way in high heaven that McClain could reach the corner of Houston and Elm in a second and a half, after traveling at the speed of the motorcade into the intersection of Houston and Elm? The answer is HELL NO. And we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

[Jerry Logan]

Pat,

You've definitely identified a weak spot, but it's not an obvious slam dunk. As I wrote, there are two two parts- 160 v. 175 and the sync between the last McLain frame in Hughes and the Zapruder frames. Thomas thinks your Z150 is way off, in fact Myers puts it at Z150. Thomas wants to put the sync way earlier, perhaps (and this is just a guess on my part) all the way into the 132, 133 gap.

FWIW, I think you're on the right track. McLain has to traverse 174 feet to get to the right spot. He's traveling 14.7 mph as he rounds the Main/Houston turn. How long is it reasonably going to take him to travel the 174 feet? Work back to see what Z frame that implies for the Hughes/Zapruder sync issue. Maybe it implies something ridiculous or impossible, maybe it doesn't. We've got to run the numbers and look at the photos.

Best to you,

Jerry

Edit: Visual syncing is right up the alley of some of the best photo people around, Chris Davidson, Martin Hinrichs, Robin Unger and yes, even Craig - I bet we could do a bang up job without going epipolar - are you up for it?

Edited August 21, 2010 by John Simkin

[Craig Lamson]

I'll pass Jerry.

[Josiah Thompson]

I'd like to make a point about motorcycles. I've been riding them for fifty years and have two in garage. I've ridden twice coast-to-coast and back on motorcycles.

The Hughes film shows McClain making a 90 degree turn onto Houston Street. Whatever his speed is in the 90 degree turn it would be slower than his straight speed. You gotta slow down a lot on a curve in a motorcycle... especially one of those police Harleys McClain is driving. Very naturally he would come out of the curb and then speed up on Houston Street. How much would he speed up? That would depend on where he was in the motorcade and where he was supposed to be in the motorcade. Speeding up to 25 or 30 mph is certainly not that unlikely. The problem is we don't know what was in his mind at that point. What was in his mind would control what he was doing.

JT

[John Simkin]

Soon after I posted the Dale Myers analysis on the Forum that well-known advocate of free discussion, Gary Mack, emailed the group to say what I had done. Dale Myers immediately complained to the moderators of the JFK group and Peter Dale Scott has asked me to remove his account from the forum. It seems that Dale Myers does not want his opinions discussed on the forum. He emailed me and demanded that I even removed the criticism of his ideas. I have refused to do that. However, I have deleted Dale Myers' account from the forum. You will have to go to his website if you are interested in his views on the subject.

[Jerry Logan]

Soon after I posted the Dale Myers analysis on the Forum that well-known advocate of free discussion, Gary Mack, emailed the group to say what I had done. Dale Myers immediately complained to the moderators of the JFK group and Peter Dale Scott has asked me to remove his account from the forum. It seems that Dale Myers does not want his opinions discussed on the forum. He emailed me and demanded that I even removed the criticism of his ideas. I have refused to do that. However, I have deleted Dale Myers' account from the forum. You will have to go to his website if you are interested in his views on the subject.

John,

Myers has some control over his words via copyright protection though I think fair use would prevail - in any case he has absolutely no legal power to preclude discussing his ideas.

Ironic, since Pat has suggested an idea that extends Myers thoughts - but maybe that's the problem. Myers wouldn't like it if someone showed a simpler and more direct route to his convoluted conclusions.

Best to you,

Jerry

[William Kelly]

Soon after I posted the Dale Myers analysis on the Forum that well-known advocate of free discussion, Gary Mack, emailed the group to say what I had done. Dale Myers immediately complained to the moderators of the JFK group and Peter Dale Scott has asked me to remove his account from the forum. It seems that Dale Myers does not want his opinions discussed on the forum. He emailed me and demanded that I even removed the criticism of his ideas. I have refused to do that. However, I have deleted Dale Myers' account from the forum. You will have to go to his website if you are interested in his views on the subject.

John,

Myers has some control over his words via copyright protection though I think fair use would prevail - in any case he has absolutely no legal power to preclude discussing his ideas.

Ironic, since Pat has suggested an idea that extends Myers thoughts - but maybe that's the problem. Myers wouldn't like it if someone showed a simpler and more direct route to his convoluted conclusions.

Best to you,

Jerry

Well, I see John did remove the criticism of Dale Myers work from the forum. I think it should be reposted and discussed further, especially if he doesn't want it.

Using the lack of photo evidence to discredit the acoustic evidence doesn't hold water, as not everything was photographed and we just don't know what was happening where the cameras weren't pointed.

We do know however, that Dale Myers' book on the Tippit murder is intentionally deceptive, does not give an accurate account of the murder, does not even get into certain aspects that have proved to be important, and that his intention is not to develop the truth as to what really happened but to dismiss any conspiracy thinking.

We also know that his computer animated cartoons are as equally deceptive and not usefull for anything except for attempting to try to fool anyone who bothers to view them.

And his statement in the now removed post that he has offered to show this irrefutable proof to Blakey, who is as deceptive in his own way as Myers, and Barger and the real acoustic specialists,

but they all declined, is indicative of how his work should be treated - ignored.

While the government has refused to conduct the research that the HSCA requested be conducted on the Barger/Ackensensay studies, which should have been done, it seems that they have

conducted some acoustical reseach into gunshot sounds and indentifications, as they have gone operational with new equipment, as this article details:

HELECOPTERS EQUIPED WITH ACOUSTIC SHOT DETECTION -

http://defensetech.o...or-afghanistan/

John Judge, who supplied this link, says that one of these sensors is needed for Dealey Plaza.

Also, it should be questioned whether such a sensor or an adapted one could be tested on the acoustcs in evidence to see if they are gunshots and from which direction they were fired.

ARTICLE:

While missiles and RPGs have downed more helicopters in both Iraq and Afghanistan, insurgents shouldering the venerable AK-47 are a far more frequently encountered threat to helicopters in Afghanistan than shoulder fired missiles. Army and Marine helicopters have been equipped with electronic detection and countermeasures to protect against shoulder fired and larger missiles for years. Yet, there are no systems to tell pilots when they're coming under small arms fire. That's about to change.

The military is sending four UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters to Afghanistan, each of which is rigged with 18 acoustical sensors able to detect the supersonic shock wave of a bullet in flight and then triangulate and pinpoint the gunmen. The program, known as Helicopter Alert and Threat Termination (HALTT) system, under development by DARPA, will see its first operational testing come October, Zachary Lemnios, director of Defense Research & Engineering, told reporters today.

HALTT borrows technology from the Boomerang acoustic gunshot detection system developed for ground vehicles. The helicopter equivalent is intended to warn pilots of where the shooter is located, in under a second, so they can either take evasive action or engage.

According to data compiled by a congressionally mandated study (see article pg. 9) on helicopter survivability, a total of 70 U.S. helicopters have been downed by hostile fire in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2001 through 2009. The report found that 375 helicopters in total have been lost; 305 of those classified as non-hostile and non-combat events. The study found that insurgents most often visually acquired their targets as 75 percent of helicopters were downed during daylight hours; the report does not say whether infra-red tracking missiles accounted for any night-time losses.

Small arms fire, including machine guns, have accounted for 31 percent of helicopter losses in Iraq and Afghanistan; the majority of losses came from enemy RPGs and MANPADS. The low loss rate to small arms fire actually represents a huge improvement over Vietnam, where some 2,000 helicopters were downed by enemy fire; 94 percent of those losses coming from small arms fire. The study concluded that better tactics, flying at night with the aid of night vision and hardier aircraft design in today's wars account for the dramatic difference. In the early Vietnam years, single engine designs, lack of night vision goggles, lack of critical system redundancy and non-crashworthy fuel systems resulted in high losses. The study says there were no reported losses in Iraq or Afghanistan to radar-guided weapons.

Edited August 21, 2010 by William Kelly

[John Simkin]

[Well, I see John did remove the criticism of Dale Myers work from the forum. I think it should be reposted and discussed further, especially if he doesn't want it.

No, I did not. I only removed his original words. It just highlights the fact that he is not willing to have his opinions questioned by the experts on this forum. It is interesting that Gary Mack, the gatekeeper of truth concerning the JFK assassination, was the one who complained to the email group of my posting Dale Myers' account. Of course, he is another one who is scared to engage in debate on this forum (even though he is a member).

[Jerry Logan]

[Well, I see John did remove the criticism of Dale Myers work from the forum. I think it should be reposted and discussed further, especially if he doesn't want it.

No, I did not. I only removed his original words. It just highlights the fact that he is not willing to have his opinions questioned by the experts on this forum. It is interesting that Gary Mack, the gatekeeper of truth concerning the JFK assassination, was the one who complained to the email group of my posting Dale Myers' account. Of course, he is another one who is scared to engage in debate on this forum (even though he is a member).

John,

Just for my information, can you tell us exactly what email group Gary alerted?

Best to you,

Jerry

[John Dolva]

Could you reword it so he can't claim expression rights?

edit typo

Edited August 21, 2010 by John Dolva

[Jerry Logan]

All:

That is still what is done, and at the same time the person is magistrated bond is set. I practiced law in MA for five years before relocating to Tx. in 1990 and there bond/bail hearings were also held and an attorney could argue why a person should be given a PR bond or at least a very low amount. In the jurisdictions where I practice in TX. defendant's are not automatically afforded that right, except in one instance: a person charged with a felony who is not indicted within ninety days is entitled to be freed on a PR bond. (Pursuant to a hearing, of course)

Dawn

Thanks Dawn, it's good to hear from an actual Texas lawyer.

Although there are some that say Austin isn't really a part of Texas :>)

Best to you,

Jerry

Edited August 21, 2010 by Jerry Logan

[William Kelly]

All:

That is still what is done, and at the same time the person is magistrated bond is set. I practiced law in MA for five years before relocating to Tx. in 1990 and there bond/bail hearings were also held and an attorney could argue why a person should be given a PR bond or at least a very low amount. In the jurisdictions where I practice in TX. defendant's are not automatically afforded that right, except in one instance: a person charged with a felony who is not indicted within ninety days is entitled to be freed on a PR bond. (Pursuant to a hearing, of course)

Dawn

Thanks Dawn, it's good to hear from an actual Texas lawyer.

Although there are some that say Austin isn't really a part of Texas :>)

Best to you,

Jerry

Maybe Dale can be persuaded to sue someone - I'll volunteer, and then we'll have a legal case to take to court and can call Ruth and Michael Paine to testify.

BK

[John Simkin]

[Well, I see John did remove the criticism of Dale Myers work from the forum. I think it should be reposted and discussed further, especially if he doesn't want it.

No, I did not. I only removed his original words. It just highlights the fact that he is not willing to have his opinions questioned by the experts on this forum. It is interesting that Gary Mack, the gatekeeper of truth concerning the JFK assassination, was the one who complained to the email group of my posting Dale Myers' account. Of course, he is another one who is scared to engage in debate on this forum (even though he is a member).

John,

Just for my information, can you tell us exactly what email group Gary alerted?

Best to you,

Jerry

It is an email group that Peter Dale Scott invited me to join. Members include G. Robert Blakey, David Kaiser, Michael O’Dell, Jeff Morley, Paul Hoch, David Talbot, Stuart Wexler, Paul Seaton, John McAdams, Gary Mack, Dale Myers, Paul Hoch, Lamar Waldron, Todd Vaughan, Jim Lesar, Rex Bradford, Don Thomas, Bill Simpich, Gerald McKnight, etc.

As you can see, it is a group with a wide-range of opinions on the JFK assassination. I welcome this approach to the subject as I believe rational debate is the best way to reach the truth. However, as Dale Myers and Gary Mack have shown on this issue, some people are not keen on debate at all.

Could you reword it so he can't claim expression rights?

If you are interested in what Dale Myers thinks of Don Thomas' book "Hear No Evil" just include the key phrases into a Google search. For example, you will get pages such as this:

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics_2.htm

I would also recommend that you look at the links on this page:

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Acoustics_Evidence

[Pat Speer]

When I first started looking into the case, in early 2003, one of the first things I did was study the assassination films, to see if I could identify when Hughes stopped filming, etc. I found that, even though the HSCA and others (including Thomas) accepted Hughes' statement that he thought the first shot rang out five seconds or so after he stopped filming, they were wrong to do so, as he didn't stop filming until AFTER the HSCA and others claimed the first shot rang out.

This ended up as one of the many reasons I came to reject the then (and still) widespread theory that the first shot rang out at Z-160.

While studying the films, moreover, I found that the Dorman film, from which the HSCA pulled its photo of McClain at the corner, supported this analysis, and showed McClain at the corner long after Z-160. While the film had several stops and starts, making any precise conclusions impossible, it did show Rosemary Willis run past the fountain, a point which could be matched to the Z-film with reasonable precision. McClain, however, didn't reach the corner for many seconds afterward. (My exact calculations are in a notebook now buried in a storage space.) Anyhow, I found this development incredibly disappointing, as I'd wanted to accept the acoustics analysis.

To Thomas' credit, he acknowledges that the HSCA was wrong and that, if the officer seen in Dorman is McClain, the dictabelt analysis is kerplooey. So he proposes this officer was Courson.

There's a problem with this of course. He also claims McClain and Courson are riding side by side in one of the Bond photos. This means that Courson gained 5 seconds or more on McClain from the corner to the middle of the plaza, about 50 yards away. He answers this on page 671 by proposing that McClain, after racing up to Houston and Elm BEFORE the shots, slowed his bike to a putter across the plaza.

There's no eyewitness or testimony support for this, of course, least of all from McClain, who claimed he'd stopped briefly on Houston, but never said anything about puttering across the plaza.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Pat Speer

[Guest Tom Scully]

Link to history of Dale's own revisions of his wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dalekmyers@comcast.net