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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

Only if you can connect Oswald to any of the bullets.

BK

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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

On page 251 of With Malice, Dale Myers wrote:

One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.
However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.
(Italics added)

From Myers' footnotes:

These experts who examined ballistics evidence in the Tippit case for the Warren Commission included Cortland Cunningham,

Robert A. Frazier, and Charles Killion of the Firearms Identification Unit of the FBI Laboratory, Washington, D.C.

Myers also listed five ballistics experts for the HSCA that disagreed with Nicol's conclusion.

Edited by Michael Hogan
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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

On page 251 of With Malice, Dale Myers wrote:

One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.
However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.
(Italics added)

From Myers' footnotes:

These experts who examined ballistics evidence in the Tippit case for the Warren Commission included Cortland Cunningham,

Robert A. Frazier, and Charles Killion of the Firearms Identification Unit of the FBI Laboratory, Washington, D.C.

Myers also listed five ballistics experts for the HSCA that disagreed with Nicol's conclusion.

Michael,

Interesting that Nicol finds 7 points of match on that one bullet. Also interesting that Nicol is by far the more experienced examiner of the group.

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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

Only if you can connect Oswald to any of the bullets.

BK

Bill,

I hardly think that is a problem. Oswald was arrested with this pistol in his possession, and he never denies having it.

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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

On page 251 of With Malice, Dale Myers wrote:

One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.
However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.
(Italics added)

From Myers' footnotes:

These experts who examined ballistics evidence in the Tippit case for the Warren Commission included Cortland Cunningham,

Robert A. Frazier, and Charles Killion of the Firearms Identification Unit of the FBI Laboratory, Washington, D.C.

Myers also listed five ballistics experts for the HSCA that disagreed with Nicol's conclusion.

Michael,

Interesting that Nicol finds 7 points of match on that one bullet. Also interesting that Nicol is by far the more experienced examiner of the group.

Can you provide evidence that Nicol was by far the more experienced examiner, including the five experts that appeared before the HSCA?

Are you saying the other experts were not as competent as Nicol? Do you doubt the competence of the three FBI experts?

What were the 7 points of match on that one bullet and why did the other experts disagree with Nicol?

Why do you think Nicol was outnumbered eight to one?

The unanimous disagreement of the eight other government-appointed experts creates no doubts in your mind?

Edited by Michael Hogan
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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

On page 251 of With Malice, Dale Myers wrote:

One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.
However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.
(Italics added)

From Myers' footnotes:

These experts who examined ballistics evidence in the Tippit case for the Warren Commission included Cortland Cunningham,

Robert A. Frazier, and Charles Killion of the Firearms Identification Unit of the FBI Laboratory, Washington, D.C.

Myers also listed five ballistics experts for the HSCA that disagreed with Nicol's conclusion.

Michael,

Interesting that Nicol finds 7 points of match on that one bullet. Also interesting that Nicol is by far the more experienced examiner of the group.

Can you provide evidence that Nicol was by far the more experienced examiner, including the five experts that appeared before the HSCA?

Are you saying the other experts were not as competent as Nicol? Do you doubt the competence of the three FBI experts?

What were the 7 points of match on that one bullet and why did the other experts disagree with Nicol?

Why do you think Nicol was outnumbered eight to one?

The unanimous disagreement of the eight other government-appointed experts creates no doubts in your mind?

As near as I have been able to tell. Cunningham, with 5 years experience, and thousands of comparisons, was far less experienced than Nicol with 23 years experience and 50K comparisons a year!

Frazier, I am sure looked at Cunninghams work and agreed. However I find nothing that says Frazier attempted a match himself. This was of course before Nicol. I have not found any reference as to any examiner reevaluating the evidence after Nicol, until the HSCA.

I do find it compelling that Nicol found a match, and if their experience levels were equal, I would be highly suspect. Frankly, 7 points of match, from an experienced examiner can not just be discarded.

Likewise, of all the members of the Medical Panel, only Dr. Wecht showed dissent. Yet the CT crowd sure stacks up behind him. SO why accept Wecht, and discard Nicol?

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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

On page 251 of With Malice, Dale Myers wrote:

One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.
However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.
(Italics added)

From Myers' footnotes:

These experts who examined ballistics evidence in the Tippit case for the Warren Commission included Cortland Cunningham,

Robert A. Frazier, and Charles Killion of the Firearms Identification Unit of the FBI Laboratory, Washington, D.C.

Myers also listed five ballistics experts for the HSCA that disagreed with Nicol's conclusion.

Michael,

Interesting that Nicol finds 7 points of match on that one bullet. Also interesting that Nicol is by far the more experienced examiner of the group.

Can you provide evidence that Nicol was by far the more experienced examiner, including the five experts that appeared before the HSCA?

Are you saying the other experts were not as competent as Nicol? Do you doubt the competence of the three FBI experts?

What were the 7 points of match on that one bullet and why did the other experts disagree with Nicol?

Why do you think Nicol was outnumbered eight to one?

The unanimous disagreement of the eight other government-appointed experts creates no doubts in your mind?

As near as I have been able to tell. Cunningham, with 5 years experience, and thousands of comparisons, was far less experienced than Nicol with 23 years experience and 50K comparisons a year!

Frazier, I am sure looked at Cunninghams work and agreed. However I find nothing that says Frazier attempted a match himself. This was of course before Nicol. I have not found any reference as to any examiner reevaluating the evidence after Nicol, until the HSCA.

I do find it compelling that Nicol found a match, and if their experience levels were equal, I would be highly suspect. Frankly, 7 points of match, from an experienced examiner can not just be discarded.

Likewise, of all the members of the Medical Panel, only Dr. Wecht showed dissent. Yet the CT crowd sure stacks up behind him. SO why accept Wecht, and discard Nicol?

You didn't answer my questions. I tried to make them as simple as possible.

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I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum about the Testimony of Joseph Nicol. He was at the time of his testimony, the most experienced ballistic examiner to study the bullets removed from JDT. He testifies that he positively matched one bullet, to the exclusion of all others.

Is this not a strong indication that Oswald was in fact guilty of the murder of JDT?

On page 251 of With Malice, Dale Myers wrote:

One ballistic expert, Joseph D. Nicol, did find "sufficient individual characteristics" on one of the four bullets to reach the conclusion that it had been fired from Oswald's revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.
However, none of the eight ballistic experts who have examined the bullets agree with Nicol's positive identification.
(Italics added)

From Myers' footnotes:

These experts who examined ballistics evidence in the Tippit case for the Warren Commission included Cortland Cunningham,

Robert A. Frazier, and Charles Killion of the Firearms Identification Unit of the FBI Laboratory, Washington, D.C.

Myers also listed five ballistics experts for the HSCA that disagreed with Nicol's conclusion.

Michael,

Interesting that Nicol finds 7 points of match on that one bullet. Also interesting that Nicol is by far the more experienced examiner of the group.

Can you provide evidence that Nicol was by far the more experienced examiner, including the five experts that appeared before the HSCA?

Are you saying the other experts were not as competent as Nicol? Do you doubt the competence of the three FBI experts?

What were the 7 points of match on that one bullet and why did the other experts disagree with Nicol?

Why do you think Nicol was outnumbered eight to one?

The unanimous disagreement of the eight other government-appointed experts creates no doubts in your mind?

As near as I have been able to tell. Cunningham, with 5 years experience, and thousands of comparisons, was far less experienced than Nicol with 23 years experience and 50K comparisons a year!

Frazier, I am sure looked at Cunninghams work and agreed. However I find nothing that says Frazier attempted a match himself. This was of course before Nicol. I have not found any reference as to any examiner reevaluating the evidence after Nicol, until the HSCA.

I do find it compelling that Nicol found a match, and if their experience levels were equal, I would be highly suspect. Frankly, 7 points of match, from an experienced examiner can not just be discarded.

Likewise, of all the members of the Medical Panel, only Dr. Wecht showed dissent. Yet the CT crowd sure stacks up behind him. SO why accept Wecht, and discard Nicol?

You didn't answer my questions. I tried to make them as simple as possible.

"tried to make them as simple as possible"

Are you attempting to be condescending, or simply coming off that way out of habit?

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Are you attempting to be condescending, or simply coming off that way out of habit?

Neither. I was simply stating a fact.

Why don't you take a shot at answering the questions instead of evading them?

Fine, as droll as they are.

1. Any and all experience is listed in Testimony. Read what the qualifications are and then see for yourself.

2. I do not doubt their competence, I only question their experience. They were certainly less qualified than Nicol. (See #1)

3. I dont know that they do disagree with Nicol.

4. I do not know that anyone else ever looked at his work. I find little rebutting evidence.

5. Who ever said it did not create any doubt. That is why I made the post in the first place.

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Are you attempting to be condescending, or simply coming off that way out of habit?

Neither. I was simply stating a fact.

Why don't you take a shot at answering the questions instead of evading them?

Fine, as droll as they are.

1. Any and all experience is listed in Testimony. Read what the qualifications are and then see for yourself.

2. I do not doubt their competence, I only question their experience. They were certainly less qualified than Nicol. (See #1)

3. I dont know that they do disagree with Nicol.

4. I do not know that anyone else ever looked at his work. I find little rebutting evidence.

5. Who ever said it did not create any doubt. That is why I made the post in the first place.

MIKE

It was 7-1 against maybe Nichol thought it a conspiracy?.

Ian

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  • 2 months later...

Frazier, I am sure looked at Cunninghams work and agreed. However I find nothing that says Frazier attempted a match himself. This was of course before Nicol. I have not found any reference as to any examiner reevaluating the evidence after Nicol, until the HSCA.

Frazier had 23 years of experience in firearms identification as of 1964, a number similar to Nicol's 22 years. Frazier swore in an affidavit that he independently examined the same items examined by C.C., and agreed with his conclusions. If you can explain what kind of examination Frazier could have done on these bullets other than trying to find matches, please tell me.

FRAZIER, July 31, 1964: "I do hereby state that I conducted independent examinations of the items which were the subject of Mr. Cunningham's testimonies and that on the basis of these independent examinations, I reached the same conclusions reached by Mr. Cunningham."
link Edited by Andric Perez
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Why do you think Nicol was outnumbered eight to one?

The unanimous disagreement of the eight other government-appointed experts creates no doubts in your mind?

Mike Williams has no doubt in his pre-disposed mind.

He'll take that one-to- eight shot any time.

Even though Nicolls has been discredited by every other

Government expert.

And that is before the DEFENSE even gets to

put on its case.

Mike Williams is a JOKER on this forum.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll
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Mike Williams says Nicol found 7 points of match between the Tippit bullet in question and the test-fired bullet. A Couple of questions:

1) Can you identify these matches in the photograph provided by Nicol, which is Commissin Exhibit 625? I can't.

ce625.jpg

At least once in the past, a firearms examiner tried to make the court believe that a toolmark was present in both a test bullet and the bullet in evidence. It was United States vs. Green a few years ago, and the judge was smarter than the prosecution thought. The judge (Gertner) told the firearms examiner how puzzled he (the judge) was by the fact he could not see the alleged match.

Q. You have what appears to be a readily visible striation on the left, but it is

not on the right-hand one?

A. Correct.

Q. What basis, what studies, what database, what anything, do you have

that would allow you to say I'm not going to count that, I'm still going to

call it a match even though the one on the right does not have that mark?

A. None

.

Source: Firearm and Toolmark Identification, by Cunha and Holcomb, Attorneys at Law, Boston, MA, at page 58)

Does United States vs. Green give us an indication of the kind of snake oil Nicol was trying to sell?

2) Are you aware that bullets fired from different Smith and Wesson Specials typically have 15-20% match when it comes to striations while bullets fired from the same such revolver have a 21-38% match according to a study in 1959? link

Now that you know that different bullets can produce many similar marks in bullets, can you tell us how Nicol knew that these matching marks (which I cannot see by the way, but assuming they are there) did not come from different revolvers? What is the number of matching lines that are sufficient in order to arrive to the conclusion that a bullet was fired from a certain firearm? Why did the other 8 experts conclude they did not have sufficient matches to reach a conclusion?

Edited by Andric Perez
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