JFK Special: Oswald was the man in the Doorway, after all!

[Robin Unger]

Altgen's / Weigman Composite

Altgen's perspective is VERY misleading.

Without comparing Altgen's 6 with the Weigman frames, you will NEVER understand the true locations of the spectators seen standing in the doorway.

Weigman Frame

Edited January 30, 2012 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Lovelady

Edited January 30, 2012 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Lovelady seen in Hughes.

The same Timeline as seen in the image above.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Robin Unger

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Robin,

Let me get this straight. EVEN AFTER I HAVE ASKED YOU TO POST AN OVERLAY OF THE SUBSTITUTE WINDSHIELD OVER THE ORIGINAL, YOU HAVE NOT DONE THAT? What's going on, Robin? What are you doing here? Only posting stuff that supports one side?

Jim

Robin,

Why don't you do something more useful, like overlaying this substitute windshield over the original on the Altgens? We were engaged in an important discussion of the Altgens, which this guy has diverted. Let's get back to Lee Oswald in the doorway.

I mean, this is JFK 101! I can't believe anyone is still being taken in by Joshia Thompson's endless stream of JFK rubbish. For those who want to read the complete Costello review of MURDER in The Federal Lawyer, go to http://assassinationscience.com/george.html

Beautiful Robin. Just beautiful!!

JT

CE350 / NARA windshield Animated GIF

In the NARA image, the Nebular star shaped cracks have been extended, due to the windshield being kicked out during the removal process.

Edited January 30, 2012 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

What's hilarious is that you think you can talk your way out of this one, Tink. I am sorry, but the train has already left the station. I have explained why my directions work for normal scans, which I have even demonstrated here. And the perverse artifact--another spiral nebula on the bumper of the limousine--means precisely what I think it means.

Jim Lewis, by the way, has conducted his experiments many times. He not only discovered that the bullet passing through makes a small, white spiral nebula but also creates the sound of a firecracker in the process. Anyone with a sincere interest in the assassination ought to greet all of this as a major advance in our understanding, not belittle it.

And if we needed any more evidence that you are sloppy in your research, the review in THE FEDERAL LAWYER was by George Costello, not by John Costella. Why are you repeating questions that I have already addressed? You have turned into a joke on the forum. Get a grip on yourself before the men in white suits have to come and escort you away.

Back in post #72 on this thread, you wrote: "When looking at more conventional scans, it is precisely where I describe. When we look at these blow ups, it is only APPROXIMATELY at the location of his left ear. So what? Notice how he does not address the points I have made about Doug Weldon's brilliant study, which anyone can find in MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA (2000), pages 129-173; and Jim Lewis's research on junked cars, which I discuss especially on page 436 of THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX (2003)" Now we can all look at page 436 of your book. There is a muddy photo of a junked station wagon with apparently some damage to its windshield and what may be some sort of dummy seated in the back seat with a circle around it. The photo has this caption: "Windshield D: Jim Lewis has fired a high-powered rifle through a windshield at 200 yards and hit a dummy in the neck, evidence in support of Windshield A." Windshield A is, of course, a copy of the Altgens photos. So just maybe you might like to explain what this junked car shown in a muddy photo sent to you by someone called "Jim Lewis" has to do with the Altgens photo, or, for that matter, anything. More precisely, you might want to explain how this photo somehow is "evidence in support of Windshield A." What this photo really shows is the quality of material you claim as evidence and publish in your books. Then you cite such junk in later posts as if the junk has any significance to anyone.

What, of course, would be relevant here is a photo of a windshield penetrated by a rifle bullet. Such photos are widely available since law enforcement types have done a lot of research on shootings and what a windshield looks like after being hit by a bullet. When this was discussed years ago, it just about sunk your obstinately repeated claim that a woman's tan purse in the background of the Altgens photo is really a bullet hole in the form of a nebula. You never, ever admit you're wrong so you condemn this board to endless discussions of things that have already been decided definitively against you years ago.

Perhaps also, you might explain why anyone would want to read a review of your book by your pal, John Costella.

JT

Robin,

Why don't you do something more useful, like overlaying this substitute windshield over the original on the Altgens? We were engaged in an important discussion of the Altgens, which this guy has diverted. Let's get back to Lee Oswald in the doorway.

I mean, this is JFK 101! I can't believe anyone is still being taken in by Joshia Thompson's endless stream of JFK rubbish. For those who want to read the complete Costello review of MURDER in The Federal Lawyer, go to http://assassination...com/george.html

Beautiful Robin. Just beautiful!!

JT

CE350 / NARA windshield Animated GIF

In the NARA image, the Nebular star shaped cracks have been extended, due to the windshield being kicked out during the removal process.

Edited January 30, 2012 by James H. Fetzer

[Craig Lamson]

Robin,

Let me get this straight. EVEN AFTER I HAVE ASKED YOU TO POST AN OVERLAY OF THE SUBSTITUTE WINDSHIELD OVER THE ORIGINAL, YOU HAVE NOT DONE THAT? What's going on, Robin? What are you doing here? Only posting stuff that supports one side?

Jim

Why don't you do it yourself instead of COMMANDING someoene else to do it for you..

[Josiah Thompson]

First where you're right. I misread "Costello" as "Costella". Big deal.

You write: "Jim Lewis, by the way, has conducted his experiments many times. He not only discovered that the bullet passing through makes a small, white spiral nebula but also creates the sound of a firecracker in the process." Surely, given such an important "breakthrough," you would have photos of the "small, white spiral nebula" produced by "Jim Lewis' experiments." The last time you laid this claim on us you were able to produce butkus. Apparently, somebody wrote you a letter a long time ago claiming this and you believed it without asking for any backup. You put it in your book and now you're stuck with it. Photos produced in tests of bullets through windshields don't show "spiral nebulae". They show a circular penumbra of cracked glass around the hole.

Since you can't pruduce anything but empty windage with regard to "Jim Lewis," what arguments do you have left with regard to your silly bullet-through-the-windshield claim? Lay them out.

JT

What's hilarious is that you think you can talk your way out of this one, Tink. I am sorry, but the train has already left the station. I have explained why my directions work for normal scans, which I have even demonstrated here. And the perverse artifact--another spiral nebula on the bumper of the limousine--means precisely what I think it means.

Jim Lewis, by the way, has conducted his experiments many times. He not only discovered that the bullet passing through makes a small, white spiral nebula but also creates the sound of a firecracker in the process. Anyone with a sincere interest in the assassination ought to greet all of this as a major advance in our understanding, not belittle them.

And if we needed any more evidence that you are sloppy in your research, the review in THE FEDERAL LAWYER was by George Costello, not by John Costella. Why are you repeating questions that I have already addressed? You have turned into a joke on the forum. Get a grip on yourself before the men in white suits have to come and escort you away.

Back in post #72 on this thread, you wrote: "When looking at more conventional scans, it is precisely where I describe. When we look at these blow ups, it is only APPROXIMATELY at the location of his left ear. So what? Notice how he does not address the points I have made about Doug Weldon's brilliant study, which anyone can find in MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA (2000), pages 129-173; and Jim Lewis's research on junked cars, which I discuss especially on page 436 of THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX (2003)" Now we can all look at page 436 of your book. There is a muddy photo of a junked station wagon with apparently some damage to its windshield and what may be some sort of dummy seated in the back seat with a circle around it. The photo has this caption: "Windshield D: Jim Lewis has fired a high-powered rifle through a windshield at 200 yards and hit a dummy in the neck, evidence in support of Windshield A." Windshield A is, of course, a copy of the Altgens photos. So just maybe you might like to explain what this junked car shown in a muddy photo sent to you by someone called "Jim Lewis" has to do with the Altgens photo, or, for that matter, anything. More precisely, you might want to explain how this photo somehow is "evidence in support of Windshield A." What this photo really shows is the quality of material you claim as evidence and publish in your books. Then you cite such junk in later posts as if the junk has any significance to anyone.

What, of course, would be relevant here is a photo of a windshield penetrated by a rifle bullet. Such photos are widely available since law enforcement types have done a lot of research on shootings and what a windshield looks like after being hit by a bullet. When this was discussed years ago, it just about sunk your obstinately repeated claim that a woman's tan purse in the background of the Altgens photo is really a bullet hole in the form of a nebula. You never, ever admit you're wrong so you condemn this board to endless discussions of things that have already been decided definitively against you years ago.

Perhaps also, you might explain why anyone would want to read a review of your book by your pal, John Costella.

JT

Robin,

Why don't you do something more useful, like overlaying this substitute windshield over the original on the Altgens? We were engaged in an important discussion of the Altgens, which this guy has diverted. Let's get back to Lee Oswald in the doorway.

I mean, this is JFK 101! I can't believe anyone is still being taken in by Joshia Thompson's endless stream of JFK rubbish. For those who want to read the complete Costello review of MURDER in The Federal Lawyer, go to http://assassination...com/george.html

Beautiful Robin. Just beautiful!!

JT

CE350 / NARA windshield Animated GIF

In the NARA image, the Nebular star shaped cracks have been extended, due to the windshield being kicked out during the removal process.

[Chris Davidson]

A question I've had regarding this...

Isn't it important to suggest when these possible alterations were made?...

The Altgens pic was on the AP wires about a half hour after the shooting...? Was it not?...

So, anyone in the pic was just a bystander when the first processing took place.

And the important aspect of it was the occupants of the limo at that time.

If the first newspaper pics that afternoon/evening are the same as the image we have now, including artifacts, etc, the "Headless man"..that leaves no time for any manipulation...

Are they clear enough to tell?

Or is the suggestion that it was later copies that were tampered with?...in which case had Altgens ever said anything regarding this?...

Still worth asking....when, if alterations were made, was the time frame that this could happen in?....I ask in all sincerity...

And Bernice and Robin, thanks for the pics...The original paper scans show much the same....

Hi Steve,

Over on Duncan's forum, I once again posted this, which is from a 11-23-63 newspaper.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Altgens6.png

The red arrows indicate detail in the limo flag which I have not seen on any version of Altgen's, ever!!!

A response back from Thierry was this:

interesting pic, but this one is altered as were many prints in newspaper. The tradition was to get a negative paper from the picture and DRAW upon it with a pencil.

so it was clearer were the the pencil was. On this print we can see airbrush behind lovelady, jfk's head stretched and they put grey clear on heads and the limo.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/alteredp.jpg

I just don't believe someone took the time to figure out what was missing from the flag and then recreated the detail.

If so, they did an exquisite job on this part of it.

A look at the original neg would help greatly.

chris

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Chris,

This is fantastic! So they HAD A TRADITION of altering photos of the ASSASSINATION?

And who precisely is "Thierry"? I find this quite fantastic. Did they ALSO have a tradition

of OBFUSCATING IMAGES--FACES AND SHIRTS--FROM THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?

The tradition was to get a negative paper from the picture and DRAW upon it with a

pencil. so it was clearer were the the pencil was. On this print we can see airbrush

behind lovelady, jfk's head stretched and they put grey clear on heads and the limo.

This looks more like a WORK IN PROGRESS to me. That so much tinkering was going on

cannot possibly have been A NEWSPAPER TRADITION. How much malarky are we

supposed to swallow? This is just like one of Josiah Thompson's patented run-arounds.

Jim

A question I've had regarding this...

Isn't it important to suggest when these possible alterations were made?...

The Altgens pic was on the AP wires about a half hour after the shooting...? Was it not?...

So, anyone in the pic was just a bystander when the first processing took place.

And the important aspect of it was the occupants of the limo at that time.

If the first newspaper pics that afternoon/evening are the same as the image we have now, including artifacts, etc, the "Headless man"..that leaves no time for any manipulation...

Are they clear enough to tell?

Or is the suggestion that it was later copies that were tampered with?...in which case had Altgens ever said anything regarding this?...

Still worth asking....when, if alterations were made, was the time frame that this could happen in?....I ask in all sincerity...

And Bernice and Robin, thanks for the pics...The original paper scans show much the same....

Hi Steve,

Over on Duncan's forum, I once again posted this, which is from a 11-23-63 newspaper.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Altgens6.png

The red arrows indicate detail in the limo flag which I have not seen on any version of Altgen's, ever!!!

A response back from Thierry was this:

interesting pic, but this one is altered as were many prints in newspaper. The tradition was to get a negative paper from the picture and DRAW upon it with a pencil.

so it was clearer were the the pencil was. On this print we can see airbrush behind lovelady, jfk's head stretched and they put grey clear on heads and the limo.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/alteredp.jpg

I just don't believe someone took the time to figure out what was missing from the flag and then recreated the detail.

If so, they did an exquisite job on this part of it.

A look at the original neg would help greatly.

chris

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Well, if you click on the photograph, you can see the white, spiral nebula. It is from the side, of course, and we

could certainly perform the experiment over and over again to test the result he reported. It's called replication

and is fundamental to science. Not OBFUSCATION, which is your area of specialization, but REPLICATION.

And that you could not tell the difference between "GEORGE COSTELLO" and "JOHN COSTELLA", when it is

right there in front of your face, is a classic demonstration that you have lost it. What would John Costella be

doing authoring a review for THE FEDERAL LAWYER, which is archived at http://assassinationscience.com/george.html?

First where you're right. I misread "Costello" as "Costella". Big deal.

You write: "Jim Lewis, by the way, has conducted his experiments many times. He not only discovered that the bullet passing through makes a small, white spiral nebula but also creates the sound of a firecracker in the process." Surely, given such an important "breakthrough," you would have photos of the "small, white spiral nebula" produced by "Jim Lewis' experiments." The last time you laid this claim on us you were able to produce butkus. Apparently, somebody wrote you a letter a long time ago claiming this and you believed it without asking for any backup. You put it in your book and now you're stuck with it. Photos produced in tests of bullets through windshields don't show "spiral nebulae". They show a circular penumbra of cracked glass around the hole.

Since you can't pruduce anything but empty windage with regard to "Jim Lewis," what arguments do you have left with regard to your silly bullet-through-the-windshield claim? Lay them out.

JT

What's hilarious is that you think you can talk your way out of this one, Tink. I am sorry, but the train has already left the station. I have explained why my directions work for normal scans, which I have even demonstrated here. And the perverse artifact--another spiral nebula on the bumper of the limousine--means precisely what I think it means.

Jim Lewis, by the way, has conducted his experiments many times. He not only discovered that the bullet passing through makes a small, white spiral nebula but also creates the sound of a firecracker in the process. Anyone with a sincere interest in the assassination ought to greet all of this as a major advance in our understanding, not belittle them.

And if we needed any more evidence that you are sloppy in your research, the review in THE FEDERAL LAWYER was by George Costello, not by John Costella. Why are you repeating questions that I have already addressed? You have turned into a joke on the forum. Get a grip on yourself before the men in white suits have to come and escort you away.

Back in post #72 on this thread, you wrote: "When looking at more conventional scans, it is precisely where I describe. When we look at these blow ups, it is only APPROXIMATELY at the location of his left ear. So what? Notice how he does not address the points I have made about Doug Weldon's brilliant study, which anyone can find in MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA (2000), pages 129-173; and Jim Lewis's research on junked cars, which I discuss especially on page 436 of THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX (2003)" Now we can all look at page 436 of your book. There is a muddy photo of a junked station wagon with apparently some damage to its windshield and what may be some sort of dummy seated in the back seat with a circle around it. The photo has this caption: "Windshield D: Jim Lewis has fired a high-powered rifle through a windshield at 200 yards and hit a dummy in the neck, evidence in support of Windshield A." Windshield A is, of course, a copy of the Altgens photos. So just maybe you might like to explain what this junked car shown in a muddy photo sent to you by someone called "Jim Lewis" has to do with the Altgens photo, or, for that matter, anything. More precisely, you might want to explain how this photo somehow is "evidence in support of Windshield A." What this photo really shows is the quality of material you claim as evidence and publish in your books. Then you cite such junk in later posts as if the junk has any significance to anyone.

What, of course, would be relevant here is a photo of a windshield penetrated by a rifle bullet. Such photos are widely available since law enforcement types have done a lot of research on shootings and what a windshield looks like after being hit by a bullet. When this was discussed years ago, it just about sunk your obstinately repeated claim that a woman's tan purse in the background of the Altgens photo is really a bullet hole in the form of a nebula. You never, ever admit you're wrong so you condemn this board to endless discussions of things that have already been decided definitively against you years ago.

Perhaps also, you might explain why anyone would want to read a review of your book by your pal, John Costella.

JT

Robin,

Why don't you do something more useful, like overlaying this substitute windshield over the original on the Altgens? We were engaged in an important discussion of the Altgens, which this guy has diverted. Let's get back to Lee Oswald in the doorway.

I mean, this is JFK 101! I can't believe anyone is still being taken in by Joshia Thompson's endless stream of JFK rubbish. For those who want to read the complete Costello review of MURDER in The Federal Lawyer, go to http://assassination...com/george.html

Beautiful Robin. Just beautiful!!

JT

[Josiah Thompson]

Unbelievable photo work, Robin. Terrific!

JT

Lovelady

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Well, this is ROBIN UNGER claiming something that I do not believe is true. He is asserting--mistakenly, if

I am correct--that this star-like configuration is the windshield after "being kicked out during the removal

process". Maybe Robin just does not know what he is talking about, but Doug Weldon actually tracked down

the Ford official who was responsible for replacing the windshield, who confirmed that it had a through-and-

through hole in it at the location I have identified in the Altgens. I know you and Tink and apparently Robin

do not read what we have done on all of this, but I have asked Robin to perform a simple overlay to show if

he is right or I am right. I am troubled that he has not done that, even more so by your intervention here. He

has done his overlay on the SUBSTITUTE windshield. I am asking him to do the same on the ORIGINAL.

CE350 / NARA windshield Animated GIF

In the NARA image, the Nebular star shaped cracks have been extended, due to the windshield being kicked out during the removal process.

CE350 / NARA windshield Animated GIF

In the NARA image, the Nebular star shaped cracks have been extended, due to the windshield being kicked out during the removal process.

Robin,

Let me get this straight. EVEN AFTER I HAVE ASKED YOU TO POST AN OVERLAY OF THE SUBSTITUTE WINDSHIELD OVER THE ORIGINAL, YOU HAVE NOT DONE THAT? What's going on, Robin? What are you doing here? Only posting stuff that supports one side?

Jim

Why don't you do it yourself instead of COMMANDING someoene else to do it for you..

[Craig Lamson]

I am asking him to do the same on the ORIGINAL.

Are your fingers broken?

[Robin Unger]

Robin,

Let me get this straight. EVEN AFTER I HAVE ASKED YOU TO POST AN OVERLAY OF THE SUBSTITUTE WINDSHIELD OVER THE ORIGINAL, YOU HAVE NOT DONE THAT? What's going on, Robin? What are you doing here? Only posting stuff that supports one side?

Jim

Robin,

Why don't you do something more useful, like overlaying this substitute windshield over the original on the Altgens? We were engaged in an important discussion of the Altgens, which this guy has diverted. Let's get back to Lee Oswald in the doorway.

I mean, this is JFK 101! I can't believe anyone is still being taken in by Joshia Thompson's endless stream of JFK rubbish. For those who want to read the complete Costello review of MURDER in The Federal Lawyer, go to http://assassination...com/george.html

Beautiful Robin. Just beautiful!!

JT

CE350 / NARA windshield Animated GIF

In the NARA image, the Nebular star shaped cracks have been extended, due to the windshield being kicked out during the removal process.

Quote:

Robin,

Why don't you do something more useful, like overlaying this substitute windshield over the original on the Altgens? We were engaged in an important discussion of the Altgens, which this guy has diverted. Let's get back to Lee Oswald in the doorway.

You said the thread was being diverted and you wanted it back to the doorway.

I then diverted it back to the doorway.

As for the Altgen's / Nara overlay.

First, You find me a good large enough copy of the "FULL WINDSCREEN" in the NARA files.

Quote:

but I have asked Robin to perform a simple overlay

It is not a SIMPLE overlay, if it's so simple ,you do it.Jim

I am waiting to see your results.

Lastly, DON'T BARK ORDERS AT ME JIM

i don't respond well to being ordered to do something.

WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE.

i'M DONE WITH YOU

[Josiah Thompson]

You say, "Well, if you click on the photograph, you can see the white, spiral nebula. It is from the side, of course, and we could certainly perform the experiment over and over again to test the result he reported. It's called replication and is fundamental to science."

Okay folks, click away and see what you get. You can't see anything like this if you put your face up close to the microdotted photo in your book. How come you just make this stuff up to get out of a bind you got yourself in.

Then you talk about "replication" and give us a lecture about "replication" and the philosophy of science. But you never tried to replicate any of this, did you? You just got a letter from some dude with a bleary photograph and bought into the the whole thing. You have never been able to produce anything in the way of evidence and now you're stuck. You have to tell people to "click on the photograph" and when they do that they will see that you.. undeniably and with malice aforethought.. are just blowing smoke.

JT