Bringing JFK assassination truth to the mainstream/ fingering the "Tools" when you see them

[Len Colby]

Tom,

Jim is completely correct when he says that 6 degrees of separation don't prove

anything.

Several people have tried explain this to Tom, but that doesn’t stop from obsessing over whose college roommate's business partner attended whose daughter’s wedding etc. Interestingly Michael Collins Piper applies the same technique in Final Judgment. And no I’m not implying their views are similar.

[Len Colby]

Shirley Kinder is 72 now, and was age 52 then in 1992. She was very youthful then.

My bad on the math. Shirley Kinder is anything but a loon. She is very intelligent, active and energetic.

And, of course, you would have no information with which to judge her as a "loon," having done no research into her.

I spelt out evidence she was in my 1st post about her

Perot's security man told her that a hit had been placed on Ross Perot's life and that he should be very afraid, as he emphasized every word as he told her that.

And beyond that Colby, how do you know there were not death threats on Ross Perot's life in the 1992 campaign? So you call Kinder "misinformed" ... a volunteer in Dallas at Perot headquarters who personally spoke to a member of Perot's security team in real time in 1992 and was told that a hit had been placed on Perot's life.

Kinder was not specifically told *who* had ordered Perot killed, but it is obvious it was someone very powerful.

I think the person placing the hit on Ross Perot was President George Herbert Walker Bush.

There was no point in killing or threatening him at that point, he was a distant 3rd in the polls. This has been pointed out to you repeatedly.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Colby, could you put those presidential poll results from June and July 1992 up here so everyone can have a look at them? Thank-you.

I do know Perot was leading one poll in June 37%-24%-24%. I think it was Time CNN.

Let's see the results of the others ones since you apparently have them at your fingertips.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Tom Scully]

I moved the 17 recent posts that were exclusively about Bill Clinton related discussion to the Clinton thread in Political Conspiracies. The moved posts begin here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18965&view=findpost&p=249771

(The post at the link displayed above this sentence is Robert Morrow's reply to Jim DiEugenio's post immediately above this post. Robert's post in reply to Jim's,

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18965&view=findpost&p=249771

temporarily took this thread in a Clinton Controversy direction.)

Edited April 2, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Guest Tom Scully]

(quote name='Tom Fairlie' date='31 March 2012 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1333208086' post='249714')

Tom,

Jim is completely correct when he says that 6 degrees of separation don't prove

anything.

(/quote)

Several people have tried explain this to Tom, but that doesn’t stop from obsessing over whose college roommate's business partner attended whose daughter’s wedding etc. Interestingly Michael Collins Piper applies the same technique in Final Judgment. And no I’m not implying their views are similar.

Thank you for clearing that up, Len, I'll have to work on my shortcomings and maybe someday I can be as prolific a contributor to this forum as....you seem to be!

I'd love to read some of your pointers on how to delve into "all of this" since the press hasn't done it and there are no other sources for the relationships I am presenting in this representative post. Where do you suggest I dig for new leads?

If your not adding anything to the discussions in this forum, are you not detracting from them, to some extent?

What is your problem, Len, if it is not a lack of intellectual capacity, curiousity, and motivation? Is it best that this work not be done, or not shared on this forum?

MISS AR PETSGHEK WED IN CATHEDRal; Bride of Lieut. Commdr...

New York Times - Jul 3, 1943

Wm. G. FitzGerald of Navy in the Lady Chapel of St. Patrick's WEARS WHITE LACE GOWN ... Lieut Ernest L. Byfield Jr., iUSA, of Chicago, was best man for! the ... OW Hammond of Washington and the bride's brother, Aviation Cadet Erest N.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6568&st=15

....Near the end of my last post an image of the wedding article of the senior SMOM member in the U.S., William HG Fitzgerald is displayed. OSS Army Captain, owner of the Patrick Hoy led Sherman Hotel Group, host of Irv Kupcinet, as the Pump Room's founder and son, brother-in-law of Placido Ervesun, son of Gladys Tartiere of Glen Ora, and the late husband of the widow of Robert S. McNamara, Ernest L. Byfield, Jr., was Fitzgerald's best man.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6568&view=findpost&p=238607

Oliver W. Hammonds ’36 of Dallas died Feb. 14, 2006. A solo practitioner, he focused his Dallas practice on taxation and investments. Earlier in his career, he was an attorney at the U.S. Treasury Department and in the Tax Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. He was a director of the Dallas Council on World Affairs and helped raise $1 million for the establishment of the Manley O. Hudson Chair of International Law at HLS. During WWII, he served in the U.S. Army Air Forces as an intelligence officer.

ARABIAN AMERICAN DEVELOPMENT CO - 10-K - 19960401 - AUDITORS_OPINION

google.brand.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EDGARpro.dll?...

10(f) 1987 Non-Employee Director Stock Plan (incorporated by reference to Exhibit ...... John A. Crichton Chairman of the Board Arabian Shield Development Company ... Shield Development Company Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Oliver W. Hammonds ..

MISS EB ALDRICH, JW REDMOND WED; MARRIED YESTERDAY

‎

- New York Times - Dec 15, 1946

...will take place the afternoon of Dec. 14 in the residence of the prospective bride's parents, Mr. and Mrs. Winthrop W. Aldrich, at 15 East Seventy-eighth Street. ...

The bridesmaids were the Misses Sylvia Whitehouse, a cousin; Moira Redmond, sister of the bridegroom; Firestone and Frances Cheston. .

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=alb...&lnav=hist3

Diplomats' Kin Usher at Barbara Pullman's Wedding Today

Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Oct 1, 1955

One of the young men is Alexander Aldrich, whose ... broth- ers of the bride; Thomas Devine of Midland, Tex., Andre Rhe- ault and Henry Cabot. of Bos- ton, ...

Miss Sylvia Whitehouse Is Wed To Robert O. Blake in Newport...

‎

New York Times - Jul 29, 1956

Z'he ushers were Edward Freers, Eugene Phinney, AndrE; Rheault, E. Taylor Chewning Jr., J. Woodward Redmond and Charles S. Whitehouse, brother of the ..

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1992-03-22/news/1992082060_1_nigro-sommers-mawr

Anne I. Sommers

Worked at the CIA

March 22, 1992

A memorial service for Anne Iglehart Sommers, a Baltimore native and former CIA employee, will be at 11 a.m. Saturday at Christ Church of Georgetown in Washington.

Mrs. Sommers died Friday at her home in Chevy Chase of lung cancer. She was 63.

In the early 1950s, she was a CIA operations officer for East Germany for two years. In May 1953, she married Frank Feldher Sommers, a CIA officer. They lived in Frankfurt, Germany; Vienna, Austria; Bern, Switzerland; and Vientiane, Laos.

Mrs. Sommers served on embassy committees and school boards in each of these cities.

From 1981 to 1991, she was an administrative assistant at the International Management and Development Institute, a non-profit group in Washington that worked with Fortune 500 companies and major corporations abroad.

Mrs. Sommers attended the Calvert and Bryn Mawr schools in Baltimore and graduated from Bryn Mawr College in Bryn Mawr, Pa.

She is survived by her husband; two daughters, Wing Sommers Blake of Washington and Jane Walker Sommers-Kelly of Fountainebleau, France; two sons, Frank Feldher Sommers IV of San Francisco and Alexander Robinson Sommers of Cheshire, Conn...

http://www.william1.co.uk/t39.htm

D3. Anne Calhoun Iglehart, * 1929, + 1992, Md. 1953, Frank Feldher Sommers Jr., * 1927, + 1993.

E1. Frank Feldher Sommers III, * 1955.

E2. Alexander Robinson Sommers, * 1960.

E3. Anne Wing Sommers, * 1958, Md. 1988, Robert Orris Blake.

E4. Jane Sommers, * 1962, Md. 1991, Robert Quayle Kelly, s. of Robert Kelly, of Littlehampton, Sussex.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/17/style/wing-sommers-a-banker-is-married-in-capital-to-r-o-blake-jr-a-diplomat.html

COLLECTIONS>WASHINGTON

WING SOMMERS, A BANKER, IS MARRIED IN CAPITAL TO R. O. BLAKE JR., A DIPLOMAT

Published: January 17, 1988

The marriage of Anne Wing Sommers, a daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Frank Feldher Sommers of Chevy Chase, Md., to Robert Orris Blake Jr., a son of Mr. and Mrs. Blake of Washington, took place yesterday at Christ Episcopal Church in the Georgetown section of Washington. The Rev. George L. Peabody performed the ceremony.

Jane Walker Sommers attended her sister. George Whitehouse Blake was best man for his brother.

The bride, who is known as Wing, is a vice president of the Bankers Trust Company in New York. She is to transfer to the bank's office in Cairo, where her husband, a Foreign Service officer, is stationed. She graduated from the Concord Academy and Harvard University. Her father is a retired officer of the Central Intelligence Agency. Mrs. Blake is a granddaughter of the late Mr. and Mrs. Iredell Waddell Iglehart of Baltimore, and of the late Mr. and Mrs. Frank Feldher Sommers of Racine, Wis.

Mr. Blake, a graduate of the Milton Academy and Harvard, received a master's degree from the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University. His father, a vice president of the Wilderness Society and the Natural Resources Defense Council, served in the Foreign Service for 30 years, including a tour as Ambassador to Mali. The bridegroom is a grandson of the late Mr. and Mrs. Frank O. Blake of Whittier, Calif., and of the late Mr. and Mrs. Sheldon Whitehouse of New York and Newport, R.I. Mr. Whitehouse was also in the Foreign Service for 30 years.

Just a month befor the 1956 Gates-Whitehouse wedding, Edward Freers was also an usher in the wedding of Stuart Wesson Rockwell, the U.S. Ambassador in Tehran in 1953, during the Mossadegh coup. Other ushers in Rockwell's wedding were Marshall Green, U.S. Ambassador in Indonesia, who reportedly took an active role in the "emergence" of General Suharto, and D. Chadwick Braggiotti, a U.S. diplomat whose sister was married to the brother of Henry Cabot Lodge.:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=edward+freers+mar+shall+green+shadwick&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Miss Morgan Weds Mr. Rockwell

‎ - The Sun - Jun 24, 1956

... George Wyeth Mr Fraser Wilkins Mr Mar shall Green and Mr Edward Freers all of Washington Mr Percy Haythorne brotherin law of the bride and Mr D Shadwick Braggiotti She is...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=morgan+stuart+wesley+rockwell&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

ROSALIND MORGAN BRIDE IN CAPITAL; Wellesley Alumna Married...

‎ - New York Times - Jun 20, 1956

Bradford Bachrach Mrs. Stuart Wesson Rockwell ROSALIND MORGAN BRIDE IN CAPITAL Wellesley Alumna Married to Stuart W. Rockwell of the Foreign Service Special ...

Meredith Morgan Wed to JE Cross

‎- New York Times - Nov 29, 1958

Mrs. Stuart W. Rockwell was her sister s only attendant and Charles Whitehouse was best man for his cousin. The bride, daughter also of the late Mr. Morgan, ..

As you can read above, two years after Rosalind Morgan married Stuart W. Rockwell, her sister married the cousin of Sylvia and Charles Whitehouse, James Eliot Cross. Cross was later the author of "Battle In The Jungle", and the following is some of his background during WWII, and later.

http://www.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22office+of+strategic+services.+as+an+officer+of+the+special+operations+branch%2C+whose+task+was+to+give+aid+comfort+and+support+to+the*%22&btnG=Search+Archives&scoring=a

Battle In The Jungle .

The Age - Google News Archive - Jul 18, 1964

... with the US Office of Strategic Services As an officer of the Special Operations branch whose task was to give aid comfort and support to the anti nazi... .

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=%22late+1950s+At+the+time+she+was+married+to+James+Eliot+Cross+special+assistant*%22&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Meredith Love Dies; DC Hostess, Businesswoman

‎Pay-Per-View - Washington Post - May 11, 2002

... the area in the late 1950s At the time she was married to James Eliot Cross special assistant to the secretary of the Navy in the Kennedy administration ..

So what seems to have existed was a small, close group of extended Rockefeller family members, covert CIA members, and "diplomats" Stuart W Rockwell, Marshall Green, Charles Whitehouse, and William B. Macomber, Jr. Edward Freers and Macomber had early knowledge of Oswald, Thomas Devine was connected with Andre Rheault and Macomber, Devine and Macomber were connected with members of the Bush family, Devine and GHW Bush were connected with DeMohrenschildt, and John McCloy was connected with Eli Whitney Debevoise and the Aldrich-Rockefellers. Nancy Bush's husband, Alexander Ellis, was connected to his, and later Devine's best man Macomber, and to David and John Lindsay, the twin brothers of George, law partner of Debevoise and Francis Plimpton. Alexander Ellis was also the roommate of John Chafee, who was close to Charles Whitehouse and to Macomber. Nancy and her new husband Alexander Ellis were sent off to live in Montreal where Ellis managed the Montreal office of his father's Fairfield & Ellis insurance brokerage.

Debevoise's partner Francis Plimpton's son, George was a witting CIA asset in Paris and the partner of John Train, later partner of "former" CIA and former Bush oil partner, Thomas Devine.

By mid-1964, John McCloy, who had chosen Francis Plimpton's brother as president of Amherst College in 1961, knew almost all of the information above, since it was either public knowledge or had emerged in the WC "investigation", except possibly the relationship of Devine and Macomber.

Here's a little more about the use of Lee Henry Oswald as a "marked card". The website below is the hyperlinked version:

http://www.opednews.com/Diary/THE-JFK-CASE-THE-TWELVE-W-by-Bill-Simpich-100918-692.html

THE JFK CASE: THE TWELVE WHO BUILT THE OSWALD LEGEND (Part 3: Counterintelligence goes molehunting with Oswald's file)

Third in the series. This chapter focuses on how Lee Harvey Oswald threatened to reveal military secrets to the Soviets about the U-2, and how US counterintelligence used his file as a "marked card" to capture supposed Communist spies who were trying to infiltrate the CIA....

...The CIA's position was that "Since Oswald was a former Marine and a U.S. citizen, his defection was of primary interest to the State Department, the FBI, and the Navy Department. CIA does not investigate U.S. citizens abroad unless we are specifically requested to do so by some other Government security agency. No such request was made in this case."

One CIA officer, however, shows extraordinary interest in Oswald.

This CIA officer is Ann Egerter, an analyst at the small, super-secret Counterintelligence Special Investigations Group (CI/SIG). Egerter called CI/SIG "the office that spied on spies". Her boss, legend maker #1 CI chief James Angleton, admitted that one of CI/SIG's purposes was to monitor defectors.

An FBI officer is also playing close attention - Marvin Gheesling, a supervisor at FBI Headquarters.

Oswald and the Moles

The October 31 and November 2 memos prepared by Snyder and his colleague Ed Freers about Oswald's defection are used by Ann Egerter, legend maker #5, to fill Oswald's file with items of false information known as "marked cards". "Marked cards" are designed to capture a mole who spreads the information to unauthorized individuals.

The "marked card" technique has been around for a long time. Peter Wright in Spycatcher refers to this method as a "barium meal". Tom Clancy in Patriot Games calls this trick a "canary trap". Author Peter Dale Scott mentions that the "marked card" was one of the methods used to try to catch the infamous CIA mole Aldrich Ames during the 1990s. The marked card didn't work because Ames himself was the chief of the CIA's Soviet Russia counterintelligence staff.

Freers and Snyder mentioned in their initial October 31 note about Oswald's visit that Oswald's mother's last address was at 4936 "Collinwood St.". Not only had Mrs. Oswald not lived on Collingwood since May 1957, but her address on September 4, 1959 was 3124 West Fifth Street, the very address Oswald had used on his passport application.

Keep in mind that when Snyder prepared his reports, he was a trained observer and reporter of minutiae that the average person would not notice. This "Collinwood St." entry was just one of several misspellings and errors that were purposeful and not accidental. This deliberate error was a "marked card" to see if a mole leaked this information elsewhere.

Two days later, the November 2 dispatch prepared by Freers and Snyder adds three more marked cards to the deck. One was that Oswald was "discharged" from the service. Another was that Oswald's highest grade was corporal. The third was that Oswald applied for his passport in San Francisco.

Peter Dale Scott, the author of the highly revealing essay "Oswald and the Search for Popov's Mole", carefully examined each of these marked cards. Oswald was not discharged, but received a dependency release and placed in the reserves with duties to perform until 1962. Oswald's highest grade was not corporal, but private first class. Finally, Oswald's passport states that it was issued in Los Angeles, not in San Francisco, as can be seen here:

Scott focuses on the importance of these anomalies that fill Oswald's CIA file, stating that they are evidence of "a significant, sophisticated multi-agency counterintelligence operation." Scott advances the thesis that "Oswald himself was a low-level part of a CI search for a leak or mole", and that Oswald's unexplained talk of espionage right in front of the KGB microphones (the KGB had the US embassy thoroughly bugged) is a very poor way to convince the KGB of his bona fides but "makes perfect sense as a test for leaks in response to Popov's arrest fifteen days earlier".

The American and Soviet embassies have long and famous histories for placing bugs in each other's embassies, tapping each other's phones, and reading each other's mail. The KGB confirmed in 1959 that Freers was not CIA, and that the KGB maintained a microphone in Freers' office.

In "Popov's Mole", Scott points out that the errors detailed above, and others that we will soon discuss, was repeatedly circulated in the documentary history of Oswald's files by Jim Angleton's colleague Ann Egerter and other CI/SIG officials. By embedding these false statements within Oswald's file, and tracking who had access to the file information, Egerter could determine if this information had surfaced elsewhere, and that would be evidence of unauthorized access....

http://www.google.co...ved=0CA8QpwUoBQ

By Lindsay Tice

Portland Press Herald (ME) July 11, 2000

Page 7B

Andre E. Rheault, 72, an avid traveler whose humor and compassion won him friends worldwide, died July 1, 2000, at his home.

He was born in Boston, a son of Charles A. and Rosamond Bradley Rheault, and served in the Army from 1946 to 1947 in Korea.

In September 1972 he married Sarah B. Price in Rockport. ...the Square Deal Trading Co in Camden and worked for English Language Services Incorporated in Washington DC From 1951 to 1958 he worked for the CIA

Mr. Rheault's work took him around the world. He was president of Penobscot Boat Works in Rockport and the Coral Seas Fishing Co. on Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands Surviving are his wife of Camden a son Christopher S of Camden three daughters Elizabeth W Rheault of Minneapolis Alexandra E Barry of Sanibel Fla and Marina R Post of Chicago and two brothers Robert B of Owls Head and Charles A Jr of Dover Mass.

Veteran Reflects On Service Treatment .Of Of Soldiers I...

‎

Bangor Daily News - Nov 12, 1998

The 73-year-old West Point graduate, who now lives in Owls Head, ...(Robert B.) Rheault served as the head of Special Forces, popu larly known as the Green Berets. ...

Col. Rheault Unassigned .

‎

The Telegraph - Oct 7, 1969

Robert Rheault of Brookline, Mass., highest ranking of the eight Army Special Forces men who were once with murdering a Vietnamese double agent, ...

Miss Alexandra Mills Is Bride of TJ Devine

‎

New York Times - Apr 15, 1973

William B. Macomber Jr., United States. Ambassador to Turkey, was best man. Mrs. Devine attended the Green Vale School in Glen Head, L. r., and graduated

[John Dolva]

Tom, I certainly appreciate you detailed posts on various matters. I'm not saying I 'get' all of them but a number open up new perspectives. I wouldn't bother trying to defend your right to post as you choose. People can take or leave it, either way it is not your problem. (imo)

[Guest Tom Scully]

Thank you, John.

I am uncomfortable posting what I cannot prove, or at least lay down a foundation of proof in support of. I am a poor editor.

In my last post I think I provide very strong support for three things. The first is that Gerry Ford was an unelected president who boldly appointed Nelson Rockefeller as his V.P., the second consecutive unelected VP, after Ford, himself, and then Ford even more boldly appointed Rockefeller to chair a panel to investigate Rockefeller's own relatives and his and their friends. The Rockefeller driven oligarchy continues to this day.:

GHW Bush then had the unmitigated gall to say, over the body of Ford in 2007:

http://asia.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/02/se.01.html

"...After a deluded gunman assassinated President Kennedy, our nation turned to Gerald Ford and a select handful of others to make sense of that madness and a conspiracy theorist can say what they will but the Warren Commission report will always have the final definitive say on this tragic matter. Why? Because Gerry Ford put his name on it and Gerry Ford's word was always good."....

Isn't it fascinating how prominent people are in such close cooperation with annonymous people. Col. Robert Rheault was on the cover of Time and featured in Life, find and post a photo of his CIA brother, Andre. GHW Bush was one of the most prominent men of the 80's and 1990's, post a photo of his and Bill Macomber's very close friend, Tom Devine.

And Ernest L. Byfield, Jr., his mother, and his father were probably among the best connected people of their times.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Gerald Ford picked Nelson Rockefeller over George Herbert Walker Bush.

Then at the 1980 election year, as Reagan wrapped up the nominating process, Gerald Ford stalled while mulling the VP selection so that it would help to force Reagan's hand to pick GHW Bush as VP.

Ford was doing everything he could to help get GHW Bush on the GOP ticket.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Here is a good article on how Ross Perot helped to cost GHW Bush the election in 1992. Basically Perot shattered the Reagan coalition and Bill Clinton picked up the pieces. I am sure that is what Perot intended; if he could not become president then Perot was going to sink Bush who he had much bad blood with.

http://race42012.com/2011/04/20/did-ross-perot-elect-bill-clinton/

"All of that may be true, but none of that means that Perot didn’t help to create a political climate that would ultimately lead to a Clinton victory.

First, Perot spent most of 1992 hammering President Bush over his stewardship of the country. He was free to attack the president unabated at a time when Bill Clinton was still batting away fellow Democratic challengers. So effective was his case to the American people that he topped many mid-summer polls in 1992, beating both Bush and Clinton. The wounds inflicted on Bush by Perot certainly helped take the president down several notches, making Clinton’s victory that much easier.

Secondly, Perot was solely responsible for making the national debt a major issue in 1992. No one really cared about the debt over the course of the ’80s, and had Perot not run, the eventual Democratic nominee, even if it were Bill Clinton, would probably not have come up with the issue on his own. As smart as Clinton was, without Perot showing that the debt issue had political legs, the Arkansas governor would likely have reverted to traditional Democratic talking points about how the Reagan/Bush tax cuts were a giveaway to the rich, and that taxes had to be raised in order to “invest in our country’s future,” or whatever drivel Democrats were peddling back then. Perot, by making the debt the centerpiece of his campaign, gave Clinton a new plank to his own campaign once Perot dropped out and flamed out — that taxes had to be raised to close the deficit. This argument, having been made by both Perot and Clinton, seemed a lot more sensible to voters than the usual Democratic argument that taxes had to go up so that Democrats could spend more money.

Finally, Perot siphoned off a lot of Reagan Coalition voters who were displeased with the Bush Administration. Perot’s economic nationalism appealed to Buchananites, who already had one foot outside of the GOP tent given Pat’s run against Bush earlier in the year. Ross’ seeming dismissal of social issues and isolationist stances were attractive to a lot of forgotten New England Republicans, which is why Perot ran so well in states like Maine, which gave Perot second place in the general election. And his focus on the debt made him the favorite of the green eyeshade types who felt that Reaganomics had been irrational in its projections of future growth. Additionally, I suspect there were a significant number of conservative base voters who cast ballots for Perot as a protest against the president’s perceived RINO-ism, even though Perot is pretty much the definition of a RINO, by today’s standards.

To be sure, the numbers do indeed suggest that Perot garnered his support primarily from Reagan/Bush voters from the 1980s. In 1984, the Republican share of the presidential vote was 59 percent. In 1988, it was 53 percent. In 1992, the combined Bush/Perot vote share was 56 percent. Democrats got 41 percent of the vote in 1984, 46 percent in 1988, and 43 percent in 1992. Bush won 51 percent of the vote in both Vermont and California in 1988. Bush and Perot collectively won 53 percent of the vote in both Vermont and California in 1992. Bush won 61 percent of the vote in Florida in 1988. Bush/Perot won 61 percent of the vote in Florida in 1992. Bush won Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania by 54 percent, 55 percent, and 51 percent, respectively, in 1988. Bush/Perot garnered 56 percent, 59 percent, and 54 percent of the vote in Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, respectively in 1992. All in all, Bush’s share of the vote from 1988 and the Bush/Perot share of the vote from 1992 seem to overlap significantly, and this holds true in every region of the country and in most of the nation’s largest states. As such, it becomes difficult to argue that Perot hurt Republicans and Democrats equally in 1992. What Perot did was shatter the Reagan/Bush coalition, allowing Bill Clinton to pick up the pieces."

Edited April 2, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Rodney Rivers]

Gerald Ford picked Nelson Rockefeller over George Herbert Walker Bush.

Then at the 1980 election year, as Reagan wrapped up the nominating process, Gerald Ford stalled while mulling the VP selection so that it would help to force Reagan's hand to pick GHW Bush as VP.

Ford was doing everything he could to help get GHW Bush on the GOP ticket.

Sort of a thread-jack here, but I never knew that that Ford could have been a VP of Reagan's when Ford already served as POTUS. Wouldn't that have been something! I found this article from 12 years ago discussing that and a 'co-presidency'. Talks how Bush got the VP selection. Very intriguing stuff.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/30/magazine/george-herbert-walker-bush-the-accidental-vice-president.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Gerald Ford picked Nelson Rockefeller over George Herbert Walker Bush.

Then at the 1980 election year, as Reagan wrapped up the nominating process, Gerald Ford stalled while mulling the VP selection so that it would help to force Reagan's hand to pick GHW Bush as VP.

Ford was doing everything he could to help get GHW Bush on the GOP ticket.

Sort of a thread-jack here, but I never knew that that Ford could have been a VP of Reagan's when Ford already served as POTUS. Wouldn't that have been something! I found this article from 12 years ago discussing that and a 'co-presidency'. Talks how Bush got the VP selection. Very intriguing stuff.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/30/magazine/george-herbert-walker-bush-the-accidental-vice-president.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Rodney, that is a great web link. I read somewhere else that Gerald Ford basically stalled and stalled, ran out the clock on Reagan and because there was no time left to get other candidates, Reagan picked GHW Bush because he was ready and available.

Gerald Ford probably did not want to be VP and I see his demands on Reagan as unreasonable, but all the negotiating meant that no one else was being seriously considered.

GHW Bush was the last man left standing for VP pick and I think that is exactly what Gerald Ford wanted.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Here is another fairly good story:

http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=3&src=pm

You could have found this easily also.

As you can see, Perot's numbers were plummeting at this time. His reversal on gays in the military and his disastrous appearance before the NAACP, plus his insistence on loyalty oaths in his campaign, all these were now being played up in the press. His numbers declined by about five percent in a matter of days, from 25 to 20%. His campaign figured his rock bottom base was about 14-15 per cent. And he was headed for that at the time he dropped out. On top of all this was the fact he would not listen to his rather good campaign staff: Rollins, Jordan, Squires, White etc. He simply did not want to spend the money it cost to do this sort of thing. Therefore, when it became absolutely necessary to do so, he first balked, then Rollins quit, and then Perot dropped out.

BTW, when he got back in, he did the same thing: he hired a really cheap staff, and ran a camapign on the cheap also. I think he made all of seven appearances. He thought running for president was a 9 to 5 job, like being a CEO.

PS; Let me add one more point: When Perot did come back to the race, he was taking votes away from Clinton not Bush. And Bush and Perot began to go at character issues to weaken the frontrunner at that time. If Perot had not reentered, Clinton likely would have won by ten points, which is usually considered a landslide. It was Perot getting back in which gave Bush a chance at winning. This would seem to render dubious your point about Perot getting back in to make sure Bush would lose.

I am reading Robert Novak's autobiography, especially the section where he covers the 1992 Ross Perot campaign. Basically, he says a combination of what you and I are saying. Novak says that Perot micromanaged his campaign and was very, very cheap. Also, I do agree Perot's campaign was falling apart, he was cratering in the polls by the time he left the presidential race on July 16, 1992. Novak mentions that Ross Perot was simply not willing to spend any real money (hundreds of millions) on his presidential campaign. In hindsight, it looks like Perot was merely trying to torpedo GHW Bush.

Robert Novak is firmly in the camp that Ross Perot was running to hurt George Herbert Walker Bush and that there was much bad blood between them. Remember Arkansas state trooper Larry Patterson who said the Ross Perot and Bill Clinton had several physical meetings and many phone calls between themselves in the 1992 campaign. You should have listened to Larry Patterson; you can find this in his cassette tapes that he did with Christopher Ruddy: "More Than Sex - The Secrets of Bill & Hillary Clinton Revealed! (An Interview with Arkansas State Trooper Larry Patterson) " (2000): http://www.amazon.co...35413966&sr=8-1

My opinion: Ross Perot and Bill Clinton were obviously coordinating to take down GHW Bush in the 1992. I think a big reason for that was Perot in the 1980's had discovered GHW Bush's involvement in CIA drug smuggling in Iran-contra (yes, Bill Clinton was up to his ears in that, too).

Robert Novak on Ross Perot and his Antipathy Towards GHW Bush in the 1992 campaign (there are a lot of ellipses in this passage. Refer to Novak pp. 497-499):

"I could not vote for Clinton, but this time there was a genuine third party alternative: Texas billionaire Ross Perot. When I flew to Dallas on May 6, 1992, to interview Perot, I thought I actually might vote for him. Perot had become the first independent candidate ever to pass the Republican and Democratic candidates in presidential polls...

I found it hard to fall in love with any presidential candidate (even John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, both of whom I liked personally) because, as a reporter, I observed them at close range. The May 6 interview with Perot served that purpose and incidentally guaranteed my eventual, reluctant vote for Bush. I began the Evans & Novak column based on that meeting:

After concluding a 90-minute interview in his modest 17th-floor North Dallas office, Ross Perot stopped us at the door to confide his dream: a one-on-one debate with President Bush, with no questions from journalists and nobody else interfering.

But what about the third man in the presidential race, Bill Clinton? Perot sloughed off our question. The putative Democratic nominee just isn't on the mind of the Texas billionaire as he prepares his independent candidacy. He sees the election of Ross Perot vs. George Bush ....

[H]e makes clear he does not consider Bush much of a president ... Perot told us he believes he is hurting Bush more than Clinton, basing that opinion on polls showing him ahead in three big Sunbelt states dear to Republican hearts: California, Texas and Florida.

By the same token, Perot traces hostile probing by the news media to inspiration from the Bush camp, not Clinton. Bush "started the character assassination as soon as I got ahead of him in Texas," he told us....

Perot later got back into the race, without Rollins and without any promises to spend his own money. But the glitter was gone, and his clear purpose now was not to elect himself but to beat George Bush. That was what he always had in mind."

[Robert Novak, "The Prince of Darkness: 50 Years of Reporting in Washington," p. 497-499]

Edited April 26, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Robert Morrow]

In 1996 Gerald Posner wrote his Random House hit job book on Ross Perot. Basically, everytime he could slant it negative towards Perot in that book, Posner did.

"Citizen Perot" by Gerald Posner: http://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Perot-Gerald-Posner/dp/0517193728/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335420697&sr=8-1

Here is the Amazon book description:

"Ross Perot, for all that has been said and written about him, remains something of an enigma. The images presented of his life are often in conflict. Is he a heroic businessman who risked his life to rescue two of his kidnapped workers from revolutionary Iran, or a callous executive who ran roughshod over his employees and investigated the company's senior officers? A brilliant strategist who built a multibillion-dollar empire with an innovative idea in computers, or someone cunning enough to take advantage of government programs and milk an unfair profit? A superpatriot who underwrote his own missions to Southeast Asia to help the plight of the POWs and MIAs, or a secretive billionaire who was engrossed in far-flung conspiracy theories about the CIA and the international narcotics trade?

The result of two years of meticulous research, and based on hundreds of new interviews and documents Citizen Perot strips away the mythology and unmasks the real Ross Perot for the first time. This groundbreaking book discloses the inside story of how Perot made his fortune; uncovers the tremendous influence he wielded with different presidents; presents the complete saga of his rescue mission from Iran; exposes the private wars he waged against government officials and business competitors he considered corrupt; explains the secret battles that created animosity with George Bush; and, finally, reveals what was behind Perot's unusual charges of Republican dirty tricks in the 1992 campaign.

At the heart of this investigation is Perot himself. Based in part on Perot's own unprecedented cooperation with author Gerald Posner, this book narrates a life that is rich in detail and unique for what it has attempted and accomplished. Studying Perot from his childhood to his current effort to create a third political party, Posner delivers an exhaustive inspection that cuts through years of misinformation and distortions to lay bare Perot's accumulation and use of power. In the process, it answers the perplexing question of what motivates Perot. It also shows whether he has the temperament and personality to be an effective president. Citizen Perot is an absorbing examination of a man who has become an American icon."

Note the part about "the secret battles that created animosity with George Bush."

You might want to read this 1999 post by Kris Millegan regarding Chip Tatum: http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg07581.html

Tatum says that, in 1992, President Bush instructed him to "neutralise"

presidential runner Ross Perot, but he refused to do so. Tatum turned over a

copy of an incriminating tape to President Bush, explaining that it would not

be released - providing that he, his family and Perot remained unharmed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

GENE "CHIP" TATUM -- CA. JULY 1996

Abbreviated transcript of Gene Tatum's appearance on the Rob Lori radio show,

"Radioactivity" on WMNF, out of Tampa, Florida.

ROBERT LORI: Good afternoon. This is "Radio Activity." I'm Robert Lori. In the

Hillsboro(sp?) County jail right now is a man who says he's been involved in

covert operations since the mid-1970s; that he has knowledge of drug smuggling

by employees of the U.S. government; and that he was once assigned the task of

assassinating political figures, *including*, he says, orders to assassinate

Ross Perot in 1992.

We're joined now by Gene Tatum, who's speaking to us from the Morgan Street

jail in Hillsboro County. Gene Tatum, welcome to WMNF.

GENE TATUM: Good afternoon.

ROBERT LORI: Good afternoon. Was I accurate in that introduction?

GENE TATUM: Yeah, I would say so. I would like to qualify the Ross Perot

portion of it. The unit that I was working with is code named "Pegasus." By

the

time a mission comes to us, we're ordered to "neutralize." Now we can

neutralize in any of three methods: through intimidation, blackmail, or

"termination."

ROBERT LORI: Was it clear what method they were advocating?

GENE TATUM: They pretty well leave it up to us.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Here is Chip Tatum's letter to Ross Perot dated April 2, 1996.

This is around the time that William Colby, who was a mentor to Chip Tatum, died that spring under quite suspicious circumstances. William Colby was also a mentor to John De Camp who wrote the book the Franklin Cover Up in 1992. The Franklin Cover Up is about a CIA-connected homosexual pedophile ring that ran in the 1980's. GHW Bush is mentioned 15 times in the index of the Franklin Cover Up.

Excellent web page: http://www.leopoldre...om/Pegasus.html

Gene Tatum´s warning-letter to

Ross Perot

ApriL 2, 1996

Mr. Ross Perot

12377 Merit Drive, Suite 1700

Dallas, Texas 75251

Dear Mr. Perot:

As you prepare your part for the 1996 election, there is a matter of grave importance of which you should be aware.

In 1992, as the commander of a Black Operations Unit called Pegasus, I was ordered to neutralize you. Our unit was directed by President George Bush. It was determined, at some point, that the party you formed was counter to the American system of democracy. In his attempt to justify your neutralization, Mr. Bush expressed not only his concerns of the existence of your party and the threat which you posed to free America, but also the positions of other U.S. and world leaders.

I had been associated with Pegasus since its creation in 1985. The original mission of our unit was to align world leaders and financiers with the United States. I was personally responsible for the naturalization of one Mossad agent, an army Chief of Staff of a foreign government, a rebel leader and the president of a foreign government. [thought to be Olof Palme.]

However, all of these missions were directed toward enemies of the United States as determined by our President. And because of this, I did not hesitate to successfully neutralize these enemies.

The order to neutralize you, however, went against all that I believed in. It was obvious to me that his order was predicated on a desire to remain as President rather than a matter of enemy alignment. I refused the order. I further advised the President and others that if you or members of your organization or family were threatened or harmed in any way, I would cause information, which includes certain documents, to be disseminated from their six location in various areas of the world, to various media and political destinations. I walked away from Special Operations that day with the knowledge that you don't just quit! I felt, however, that the time capsules protected my interests.

In September of 1994, I received a telephone call demanding the information "or else"! It was obvious from the day that I walked out of Pegasus that to turn this information over would be terminal. In the spring of 1995, I was arrested by the FBI for wire fraud. Although innocent of the allegations, I found it necessary to plead guilty in an attempt to tarnish my credibility. It was my opinion, as I expressed it to Rodriguez when he called and threatened me, that if I were of questionable credibility, the documents, if ever made public, may not stand on their merits.

With this arrest, I seized upon the opportunity to effect this theory. I have since been indicted on a second fraud charge, this time involving my wife. I will not allow this prosecution of my family. I have notified the authorities that I intend to put my case to a jury. While awaiting the trial, I wrote a book involving my first experience in the Special Operations arena. Since then, I have found that the U.S. Marshals have instructed the Hillsborough County jail to hold me, regardless of the outcome of the instant trial charge.

The new charge is treason. For over twenty years I have dedicated my skills, time, and health to my country. I have been shot, tortured, and beaten, fighting to protect our right to form and run our government as determined by the Constitution. I am not aware of an active Pegasus unit. I had assumed it was disbanded with the new President. I am suspect to the existence of some organization, however due to my present situation. Someone had to orchestrate this. So, be aware and alert!

Good luck and good fortune in 1996.

Sincerely,

Dois Gene Tatum

1301 N. Morgan St.

Tampa, Florida 33062

Edited April 26, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Robert Morrow]

CIA/CFR/Bilderberg sure don't like Ross Perot do they? Gerald Posner writes a hit piece book on Ross Perot in 1996 and guess who gives it a favorable review on a prominent platform? Bilderberger attendee Richard Bernstein http://www.nytimes.c...nted=all&src=pm

Here is NYT book critic and Bilderberger Richard Bernstein on 8/7/96:

"There are more details in this section of the book than many readers will want to know about Mr. Perot, Mr. Posner being more likely to put something into his story than to leave it out. Still, the 1992 race makes for a savory tale, especially as Mr. Posner unearths the details about Mr. Perot's strange credulousness when told wild stories by a couple of soldier-of-fortune types who insinuated themselves into his confidence. According to Mr. Posner, one of these men, discredited by most reasonable people who came into contact with him, told Mr. Perot that the Republicans were about to release false but compromising pictures of his daughter Carolyn. Mr. Perot believed the story, or else he latched onto it as a way to justify his abrupt withdrawal from that campaign. In any case, it is a good example of the way Mr. Perot's life is tinged with compulsive attachments to wrong ideas, to making unsubstantiated accusations, to believing in a vast conspiracy out there to get him.

''When you look into the prisoner cover-up, you find government officials in the drug trade who can't break themselves of the habit,'' Mr. Perot once told a reporter in an off-the-record conversation. The comment was made in one of Mr. Perot's compulsive moods, when he became convinced, against all the evidence, that the Central Intelligence Agency and the White House were covering up the truth about the missing in action in Indochina -- namely, in Mr. Perot's view, that there were substantial numbers of former soldiers being kept as labor slaves there. Mr. Posner's detailed recounting of that story is a chilling object lesson in Mr. Perot's worst traits of credulousness, paranoia and fanatical conviction."

The Bilderberg/CIA establishment is really, really sensitive about allegations of government and CIA drug trafficking. Bring that topic up and they are going to call you credulous, paranoid or a fanatic. Maybe even "crazy."

Here is an article listing NY Times book critic Richard Bernstein as one of those Bilderberger attendees. http://meta-religion...ia_blackout.htm

''When you look into the prisoner cover-up, you find government officials in the drug trade who can't break themselves of the habit,'' - BINGO! This is the source of Ross Perot being so *furious* with GHW Bush. Perot and the 1980's was looking for American POW's in Asia... but what does he find? CIA drug smuggling with Richard Armitage being the bag man for the US government in buying up the heroin crop in the Golden Triangle.

From that point things went really downhill between George Herbert Walker Bush and Ross Perot. Bush had Perot's intelligence clearance ripped away. Perot wanted to stick a needle in Bush's 1992 campaign for sure.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Robert Morrow