Bringing JFK assassination truth to the mainstream/ fingering the "Tools" when you see them

[Guest Tom Scully]

And another of your posts unapproved, Robert Morrow. Please stop accusing people of murder and sexual activity with such scant, dubious, or non-existent supporting citations. In the all too rare instance when you are able to support a controversial (outrageous) point, provide a link and a description and page number, not simply a vague title to a book and the name of the book's author.

[Pat Speer]

"Perot's surprise announcement"

Perot did not quit because this billionaire who could hire security feared "dirty tricks" at his daughter's wedding. That is the BS cover excuse. Perot was up against something even he could not contain; a president willing to kill him.

Perot hated GHW Bush. They had a huge falling out in the 1980's, probably over CIA drug smuggling which Perot was completely aware of.

Note Gerald Posner did a hit piece book on Perot in 1996, "Citizen Perot" http://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Perot-Gerald-Posner/dp/0517193728/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332765531&sr=1-1 That is because Perot was challenging CIA interests, particularly GHW Bush and the kind of illegal operations that the CIA was up to its ears in.

"When we started . . . there was a climate there where we could win outright," Perot asserted. But now, he said, "the Democratic Party has revitalized itself. They've done a brilliant job, in my opinion, in coming back."

Note Perot is practically telling everyone to vote Democratic... "revitalized" Democratic Party.

I know a volunteer for Ross Perot who lived and still lives in the Dallas area. She remembers speaking to his security about their concerns of a threat on his life. They did not mention Bush specifically, but they were very, very concerned at this time. And this was at a time Perot was very popular with the American people.

I personally was planning to vote for him and I do hold it against GHW Bush for willing to entertain murdering the candidate I was going to vote for.

Ross Perot later got back in the presidential race for ONE REASON ONLY ... to ELECT BILL CLINTON over Bush who he hated.

"Bush, vacationing in Wyoming, told a news conference that "a lot of people that supported Ross want to see the kinds of changes that I want to see. . . . We want their support.""

Robert, I don't understand your position. IF Perot secretly feared he might be killed a few months before the election, when his candidacy was just a blip in the polls, why wouldn't he have feared for his life a few days before the election, when his candidacy made it clear Bush was gonna lose?

Did the notoriously gutsy Perot suddenly man-up? Or was his temporarily suspending his campaign merely a ploy designed to weasel some concession out of Clinton?

P.S. You seem unable to process politics or politicians through anything but a scandal filter. As I recall, Perot was an issues candidate, who wanted his "issue"--the national debt--to be taken seriously. Once Clinton--the supposed tax and spend liberal--made Perot's issue--fiscal responsibility--his own--Perot felt like his job was done, and he could go back to counting his money.

There, I explained Perot's behavior without having to invent a bunch of imaginary murder threats.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Pat Speer

[Len Colby]

....

What silliness. Ross Perot did not quit the campaign in 92. He was on every ballot in every state and received almost 19% of the vote--enough to tip the election to Clinton. If Bush was gonna kill him he'd have done it a few weeks before the election--make it look like an accident--a place crash, perhaps, or, even better--make it look like Iranian agents had killed him. That way everyone worried about the evils of the Muslim world would vote for Bush, and he'd win in a landslide.

But no, nothing happened. WHY? Could it be, just perhaps, that George Herbert Walker Bush is not the ruthless murderer some would like him to be?

Pat, regarding Ross Perot: Yes, he received votes during the 1992 election. But he did give a televised speech (that I personally saw) in which he withdrew as a candidate, citing "dirty tricks" that he felt were being planned for his daughter's wedding.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-07-17/news/mn-3649_1_democratic-party

The reason given in the linked article was that he didn't want the vote to be decided by the House. He only came up with the "dirty tricks" excuse later. The truth was his poll numbers had fallen off sharply.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Pat,

Ross Perot's "big issue" in the 1980's was finding lost American POWs and bringing them home. Perot was convinced they were still being held either in Vietnam or in countries around Vietnam.

In the course of investigation the "POW" issue, Perot became aware of gargantuan CIA drug smuggling. Perot had a huge falling out with GHW Bush. Bush took away Perot's high level security clearance that President Reagan had given him.

Perot ran for president on an "issues campaign." A big reason he ran was personal disgust and disagreement with the incumbent GHW Bush. I do think Perot's discovery of the CIA drug smuggling played a big role in that. In any event it was "personal" between Perot and GHW Bush.

By June, 1992 Ross Perot was leading in national polls 37% to 24% Bush to 24% Clinton. Yes, his campaign had suffered some setbacks by then, but Perot was still legitimately in the race.

I remember this time period well because I was ready to vote for Ross Perot. I like the way he was taking it to the 2 major parties. And I remember being stunned when Perot quit the race (7/16/92) and at the *lame* excuse he gave for that. Years later I realized whty that excuse was so *lame* - Perot was not going to tell the real reason he quit or that he felt his life was in danger from Bush.

There are some things these elites just don't want to tell the public. Perhaps don't want things to escalate.

After Perot quit the race, obviously he let the air completely out of his campaign. By the time Perot did re-enter the campaign, he was completely aware he had little or no chance to win. Perot only re-entered the '92 presidential campaign in the fall to sabotage the campaign of GHW Bush; in other words play spoiler.

(I see on another thread Tom Scully wants to put me on moderation. Scully may not like my sources and he may not like my analysis, but I think it is really disgusting of him to try to silence me by putting me on moderation. I do not think Tom Scully is fit to be a moderator at Education Forum. He obviously has an agenda; is intolerant of different viewpoints and he continually posts irrelevant threads on the JFK discussion board.)

[Len Colby]

Let's you not be absurd. In many ways the CIA is like the mafia. You never leave the mafia. You never leave the CIA. And if you try leaving a street gang or a prison gang it causes huge problems.

The reason for that is when a group of people have been committing a slew of outrageous crimes from assassinations, illegal gun running, financial fraud, narcotics traffficking ... the liability for these crimes NEVER goes away. And then there is the matter of continuing operations where the person trying to leave said group is a threat simply because of the knowledge he holds.

You’re still being absurd. Tutum never indicated Colby stayed on at the CIA clandestinely he repeatedly referred to him as the “Director” (with a capital ‘d’) and even claimed he handed he handed he resignation to Colby. Of all the career CIA men who ended up running the agency Colby was the least likely to have stayed on secretly as director. Ford fired him because he disclosed too many secrets. He also claimed Colby was Bush’s successor when of course the opposite was the case. He claimed to have known Colby since the early 70’s but repeatedly called him William J. Colby. He said he wrote his book when he was in prison, Colby died during this period, my guess is that saw a new report but misunderstood or misremembered some of the details.

Additionally the supposed order to kill letter is risible. Even if Bush wanted Perot killed he is unlikely to have given such an order directly and obviously would not have done so in writing on White House letterhead and signed it, if authentic it would have guaranteed him life behind bars.

As if the above weren’t bad enough he was arrested in Florida during the period when the promoters of his myth say he was disappeared.

Churchill once quipped, “A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject” the 1st part of that applies to you concerning a few subjects, including Tatum, it and the latter to you on others.

[Tatum] refused an unethical order and went AWOL, subsequently got charged with treason for refusing a direct order from the President

1) The treason charge was quickly dropped and seems to have been filed in error.

2) Refusal to obey an order is insubordination not treason, I doubt it is a criminal charge for a civilian

3) Even in the military it is NOT illegal to refuse to obey an illegal order, actually it is illegal to obey it.

4) He supposedly refused Bush’s order in 1992, he was not charged till 1995 or 6 and didn’t supposedly disappear until 1998.

5) He and his wife sent some time in prison for fraud, they essentially admitted to deceiving the FDIC in their appeal

But perhaps most interesting is that this agent made statements in the form of predictions, but they weren't predictions, per se. They were the culled intel from being in over a hundred eyes-only planning sessions with Bush. Stuff like the plan for a global governance, a New World Order; the bringing down of the American economy and the splitting of the currency into domestic and international, two separate systems to protect against hyper-inflation as the dollar dies in world currencies.

And 16 years later none of the above have come to fruition.

1729881897

This agent participated in the hit on Olof Palme, Prime Minister of Sweden. The hit was ordered because of an unwise conversation Lt. Col. Oliver North had with Palme in reference to illegal firearms dealing…North has no idea how close he came to sharing the same fate. The agent had orders that if a handkerchief was not dropped after a conference with Gorbanifar, the entire room including North were to be eliminated…The agent I spoke of actually knew Nir, but he was not told whose plane it was he was ordered to bring down.

So he killed a democratically elected head of state, Nir and the others on his plane almost killed North and everyone else in the room, but refused to off Perot, that doesn’t make any sense. I seriously doubt Palme would have had anything but superficial dealings with North.

Perot did not quit because this billionaire who could hire security feared "dirty tricks" at his daughter's wedding. That is the BS cover excuse.

His initial excuse was that he didn’t want the election to be decided by the House, the truth was that his poll numbers had dropped sharply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot_presidential_campaign,_1992#Decline_and_withdrawal

"I personally was planning to vote for him and I do hold it against GHW Bush for willing to entertain murdering the candidate I was going to vote for."

Why didn’t you vote for him, he was on the ballot in Texas and every other state?

If he wanted to kill a candidate you didn’t want to vote for would that have been OK?

"Ross Perot later got back in the presidential race for ONE REASON ONLY ... to ELECT BILL CLINTON over Bush who he hated."

??? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to endorse him? Polls showed him drawing as many votes from Clinton as from Bush.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

"1) The treason charge was quickly dropped and seems to have been filed in error."

The very fact that Chip Tatum was INDEED initially charged with TREASON is a huge, huge, huge red flag. It is the equivalent of finding out that Lee Harvey Oswald was tested by the military for his proficiency in Russian ... before he defects to Russia.

Nobody else in a little fraud case gets charged with "treason." Bernie Madoff was as a big of a con artist and fraud as one will ever find and he was not charged with treason out of the blue.

Chip Tatum was obviously an intelligence operative. And the fact that you are spending so much time on this thread is yet another confirming factor.

Chip Tatum's wife also wrote a book called "Joining Club Fed." The book is about what to do when the government is after you using the legal sytem as a bludgeon.

The government also administered "diesel therapy" to Chip Tatum, which is yet another sign he was a valuable, high priority prisoner who they wanted to keep out of the media. "Diesel therapy" is when the government, usually the federal government, moves a prisoner rapidly and often to very obscure places around the country. They do this so you can't work on your legal defense, can't easily meet with your lawyer, can't see your friends and family and, very importantly, keep you hidden from any media who might want to talk to you.

For example, the government might put you in county jail in Los Angeles initially; then without telling your family or lawyer, move you to state prison in Florida. In other few weeks or months, they might move you to county jail in upstate New York. It is a very nasty way to treat a prisoner (who often has not been *convicted* of anything) and his family. And it wreaks havoc with his legal defense in addition to running up legal/travel bills.

Diesel therapy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_therapy

The "diesel therapy" treatment of Chip Tatum is another confirming factor that he was a very high value intelligence operative who the government wanted to play keep away from the media.

"Joining Club Fed" by Nancy Tatum:

http://www.amazon.com/Joining-Club-Fed-Nancy-Tatum/dp/0964010445/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332788527&sr=8-1

Here is one book review from 1999 on Amazon:

"Imagine this: You are suddenly surrounded by 16 FBI Agents...They tell you that your husband has been arrested and is in a High Security Federal Lockup...charged with TREASON...and if you do not cooperate fully, you too will be charged with treason. This makes those bad hair days quite palatable. A Spook Spouse,The Author, Nancy Tatum shares her experiences of being accused of 'guilt by association'. Her husband "Chip" Tatum, one of Americas finest spies was tucked away in a High Security Prison 'in the interest of National Security' unable to communicate with the outside world. She was guilty by association and this message needs to be understood. Live the lie, feel the pain, experience the dirty tricks used to try and turn this Spook Spouse on her unsuspecting husband. More than a story, this is A Preparedness Manual for what to expect as a defendant or family member of a defendant facing Federal Indictments . How to deal with attorneys, How to cope with jails, prisons, their systems, guards and other prisoners. And last of all how to win that appeal!!!"

Edited March 27, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Robert Morrow]

One more thing, I voted for Libertarian Andre Marrou in 1992. That was the best vote I ever cast because I dodged both the Clintons and the Bushes in one fell swoop. I was initially for Perot, but after he withdrew I felt betrayed, especially given his lame excuses. It took me years later to figure out why he was really quitting in July, 1992 or that he was re-entered in the fall as a means of sabotaging George Herbert Walker Bush.

My feelings must have been reflected in millions of others. Perot's campaign was toast after July, but at least he was still alive. From the point of view of Bush, having Bill Clinton elected was far, far more preferable than Ross Perot. The reason for this is GHW Bush knew that Bill Clinton was as "compromised" as he was on the Iran-contra CIA drug running scandals of the 1980's.

Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Compromised-Clinton-Bush-Terry-Reed/dp/1561712493/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332790289&sr=8-1

Perot seemed to like that "revitalized" Democratic party as he revealingly stated upon his initial withdrawal from the presidential race in July.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Don Jeffries]

Ross Perot's abrupt departure from the 1992 race was very strange and has never been adequately explained. I don't buy for a second the official excuse that his daughter's wedding had been threatened with sabotage. How do you sabotage someone's wedding? Spike the punch? Pay off the groom to muff his lines?

Remember, before Perot dropped out, he was leading in many polls. At any rate, the three way race would have been very close. He still did get 19% of the vote, but if not for the wacky withdrawal and re-entrance, I think it's clear he would have done much better. I think it's reasonable to infer that whomever and whatever caused him to leave the race, it was done to stop a renegade third party candidate from perhaps winning the election.

I believe that Perot himself accused Bush of being behind the wedding "sabotage." Clearly, if the powers that be want to kill somebody, they don't hesitate to do so and would have killed Perot. I think Robert Morrow gives one person- in this case, Bush- too much influence. Perot did despise Bush, and it was primarily because of the POW-MIA issue, which Perot had put his heart and soul into. I'm sure he was disillusioned with the whitewash congressional "investigation" led by John Kerry and John McCain, which was being conducted during this same time period.

Ross Perot may be just about the only billionaire I've ever liked.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Don Jeffries

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Even if Bush wanted Perot killed he is unlikely to have given such an order directly and obviously would not have done so in writing on White House letterhead and signed it, if authentic it would have guaranteed him life behind bars.

You cannot be serious with this guy.

The purported Bush letter to Chip Tatum does not *explicitly* say kill Ross Perot. It merely calls Perot a "criminal" with "illegally obtained documents" that must be recovered.

It goes on to say use "whatever means necessary" and that Tatum can "exceed existing regulations" [i take that a code phrase for killing/murdering] to carry out this mission.

And that if a "loss of life" occurs, Tatum is promised indemnity.

If that note is the real deal, then George Herbert Walker Bush was quite desperate indeed.

Here is the link: http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/tatum.html

Basically, it pretty much tells Tatum it is perfectly okay to kill Ross Perot, without explicitly saying that.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Zach Robertson]

The Pegaus thing is all very fascinating. I believe Ross Perot delved into it and the Republican Dirty Tricks at the following press conference:

Video

and

Transcript

Edited March 27, 2012 by Zach Robertson

[Guest Robert Morrow]

The Pegaus thing is all very fascinating. I believe Ross Perot delved into it and the Republican Dirty Tricks at the following press conference:

Video

and

Transcript

Ross Perot was in fear for his life in the summer of 1992. Saturday Night Live is not going to talk about that or why. And neither was Ross Perot. But we found out years later when Chip Tatum came public around 1996 and started being interviewed.

Just like the media has never told you the truth about the JFK assassination.

Just like the media set out to discredit Gary Webb and his very important articles about the CIA being aware of contra drug smuggling. (The reality was far, far worse then what Webb initially reported.)

And here is that Gerald Posner book that was strategically timed to be released on August 4, 1996, just in time to be grist for the 1996 election. It was targeted to be a hit on Perot.

http://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Perot-His-Life-Times/dp/0679447318/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332817158&sr=1-1

Edited March 27, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Dawn Meredith]

Ross Perot's abrupt departure from the 1992 race was very strange and has never been adequately explained. I don't buy for a second the official excuse that his daughter's wedding had been threatened with sabotage. How do you sabotage someone's wedding? Spike the punch? Pay off the groom to muff his lines?

Remember, before Perot dropped out, he was leading in many polls. At any rate, the three way race would have been very close. He still did get 19% of the vote, but if not for the wacky withdrawal and re-entrance, I think it's clear he would have done much better. I think it's reasonable to infer that whomever and whatever caused him to leave the race, it was done to stop a renegade third party candidate from perhaps winning the election.

I believe that Perot himself accused Bush of being behind the wedding "sabotage." Clearly, if the powers that be want to kill somebody, they don't hesitate to do so and would have killed Perot. I think Robert Morrow gives one person- in this case, Bush- too much influence. Perot did despise Bush, and it was primarily because of the POW-MIA issue, which Perot had put his heart and soul into. I'm sure he was disillusioned with the whitewash congressional "investigation" led by John Kerry and John McCain, which was being conducted during this same time period.

Ross Perot may be just about the only billionaire I've ever liked.

I completely agree Don. He also knew all about the October surprise. You do not have to kill someone to render then a threat. I give you Gary Hart. In Perot's case I have always felt the threat of "sabotaging" his daughter's wedding was code for a larger threat. Just my opinion. He's certainly disappeared and has never been heard from again. His "great sucking sound" of jobs leaving the US was sooo correct re NAFTA.

Dawn

[Kathleen Collins]

"Citizens for Truth about the Kennedy Assassination" actually has the audacity to expect us to think that George H. W. Bush is not involved significantly with the murder of JFK. All despite

1. Bush's lack of memory regarding 11/22/63. WE born after 1958) ALL REMEMBER WHAT WE ATE FOR LUNCH THAT DAY!

2. Bush's failure of recollection when fingering James Parrot as a possible killer 75 MINUTES AFTER THE ASSASSINATION OF JFK!!! To believe that Bush couldn't remember the murder being only slightly more believable that forgetting his call to FBI. Either memory lapse is absolutely impossible. Doubt this? Ask yourself how many times have you called the FBI and forgotten the matter...

See: http://www.veteranst...ng1-531x640.jpg

3. Bush's first attempt at making a jive ass alibi by saying he was in Tyler, TX at the Rotary Club meeting when receiving the news of Kennedy's death. In fact he might have even pulled off that cheap lie too except.. Except that his statements are too obtuse. He couldn't have made the statements he claims because at the alleged 1:30 speech he cancelled due to "respect for the murdered president" (loose quote) simply doesn't fit. Couldn't have happened.

4. The TWO PICTURES of Bush which show up in Dallas at the time of the murder. One directly outside the Texas School Book Depository" Here's one:

http://www.veteranst...11/bushtsbd.jpg

5. Bush's foolish decision to take up talk of the Kennedy assassination during a speech at President Gerald Ford's funeral. Almost breaks out in a belly laugh after mentioned the term "deluded gunman" at:20 seconds here:

What's so funny about the murder of a president George?

6. Other You can find George H. W. Bush at the heart of the murder of JFK in many more ways. Leaving a trail a mile wide but only five ft. long. From George Demorenshildt to E. Howard Hunt You hardly have to scratch the surface. Bush turns up around the corner time and time again. Like the fictional character Forrest Gump he's EVERYWHERE. [/Quote]

I'm afraid #4 is wrong. I always believed that was him until someone posted this picture of the man from behind and to the right. He's got too much hair. I attached this file.

Kathy C

Edited March 28, 2012 by Kathleen Collins

[Len Colby]

The purported Bush letter to Chip Tatum does not *explicitly* say kill Ross Perot

Oh really?

It says he can use any means necessary

He can exceed existing regulations.

If loss of life occurs, he shall be protected from prosecution.

Please Bob.

The idea that a president would put this down on WH letterhead memorandum, and sign it, this is so silly that only a sucker like you would fall for it. Its so stupid that it reminds me of the fake Angleton memo about the Majestic Project. Its not the way the real world works. And if you spent more time studying that real world you would not fall for crap like this. And pollute this forum with it.

But you know what PT Barnum said, right?

PS Good one Zach. The guy has Perot's voice nailed.

Well said Jim. The Perot CTs fall apart because after leading he'd fallen into 3rd place and conflicting accounts of why he quit the race.

[Richard Hocking]

...

I'm afraid #4 is wrong. I always believed that was him until someone posted this picture of the man from behind and to the right. He's got too much hair. I attached this file.

Kathy C

Kathy, I am still on the fence regarding the picture that shows a man who very much resembles GHWB in front of the TSBD.

Your statement above though (concerning the appearance of the back of the man's head/hair) attracted my attention. A cold front passed through Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. It was a windy day. Many people had "wind-blown" hair. It may have been a factor in distorting the usual appearance of anyone's hair. Just a thought. In addition, the low resolution and lack of detail of the back shot make it problematic for positive ID.