IT IS CRUEL TO ACCUSE THE SECRET SEVICE

[Pat Speer]

Sorry, Greg. Prouty was just spewing words, and never took the time to get the most basic of facts correct.

"In 1953 the CIA had a problem, only this time it was in the country of Iran. Mosadeque died of lead poisoning and the Shah who was escaping to the Riviera was brought back to resume the long 2500 year line of Cyprus, King Cyrus, and now he leads the country of Iran at the pleasure of the Agency's number one man in the world today, Richard Helms, who is called Ambassador, and so as long as the guard in Iran can keep the Shah alive, he will be our man there. As long as the Shah is our man, he'll probably be alive."

Mohammad Mosaddegh or Mosaddeq (Persian: محمد مصدق‎, IPA: [mohæmˈmæd(-e) mosædˈdeɣ] ( listen)*), also spelled Mossadegh, Mossadeq, Mosadeck, or Musaddiq (16 June 1882 – 5 March 1967), was the Prime Minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953 until being overthrown in a coup d'état.

His administration introduced a wide range of social and political reforms but is most notable for its nationalization of the Iranian oil industry, which had been under British control since 1913 through the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC/AIOC) (later British Petroleum or BP).^[1]

Mosaddegh was removed from power in a coup on 19 August 1953, organised and carried out by the United States CIA at the request of the British MI6 which chose Iranian General Fazlollah Zahedi to succeed Mosaddegh.^[2]

While the coup is commonly referred to as Operation Ajax^[3] after its CIA cryptonym, in Iran it is referred to as the 28 Mordad 1332 coup, after its date on the Iranian calendar.^[4] Mosaddegh was imprisoned for three years, then put under house arrest until his death.

I mean, c'mon, Prouty has some sort of knee-jerk reaction that whoever planned the route was in on the killing, and we're supposed to follow him down this path? To follow his knee-jerk reaction to a logical conclusion, one would have to believe that no one could successfully kill Kennedy without Service Service complicity.

In the words of Mario Puzo/Michael Corleone, "If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it is that you can kill anyone."

Edited May 2, 2012 by Pat Speer

[Greg Burnham]

"...died of lead poisoning..." is a euphemism for a violent takeover. It was not meant literally. He didn't die, his rule did. He wasn't shot with lead bullets, but may has well have been.

[Greg Burnham]

A Closer Look At The Secret Service

By Russ Baker on Apr 30, 2012

Secret Service agents are one category of law enforcement whose agents typically get the glory treatment. Recent books by members of JFK’s secret service detail, almost devoid of revelations or candor, have nevertheless received lots of positive coverage. Meanwhile, legitimate questions about the service—how it works, what kinds of people it employs, how effective it is—are pushed aside.

Maybe that’s why the media reacted with such astonishment to learn that Secret Service agents preparing for Obama’s visit to Cartagena, Colombia, consorted with prostitutes. Eight agents have been forced out of their jobs, and a ninth is on his way out. Military personnel along on the trip are under investigation as well. The activity raised questions not only about the appropriateness of such conduct, but of whether this behavior threatened the President’s safety.

Just a One-Time Thing, Folks

Now the government is saying that the Cartagena hijinks were an aberration. Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano assured the Senate Judiciary Committee last week that the Secret Service’s Office of Professional Responsibility had received zero complaints of agent misconduct in the last two and a half years. That means total good behavior in roughly 900 foreign and 13,000 domestic trips.

But here’s the problem: it’s the Secret Service assuring us that the Secret Service is squeaky clean. The matter of self-policing came up last week when Napolitano faced the Senate committee. As ABC reports, Napolitano claimed that the Homeland Security Inspector General was supervising the investigation, but the IG’s own office said it was merely “monitoring” the Secret Service’s self-examination, and would review it when it was complete.

Since the events of April 12, a probe has grown, and investigators are very much just getting started. And not just about Colombia: the Associated Press reported on inquiries into possible Secret Service liaisons with strippers and prostitutes leading up to an Obama visit to El Salvador last year. And some agents are contending that cavorting and drinking heavily is actually quite common.

In fact, there are many other questions about the Secret Service and about presidential security that are not being properly addressed. Coming as we approach the 50^thanniversary of John F. Kennedy’s violent death, these are not idle concerns.

Obama and Kennedy

As we have noted here previously, the agency has been involved in serious security lapses and misjudgment before. For example, in Obama’s first year in office, the agency failed to keep an unauthorized couple with a hankering for publicity from getting into the White House and close to the President—and there may be more to the story.

Then, in 2011, a classified booklet containing Obama’s schedule, down to the minute, along with details on his security contingent, was found lying in a Canberra, Australia, gutter during an Obama visit to that country.

Those incidents are reported to have upset Obama—and that’s certainly understandable. Meanwhile, his trip to Colombia, intended to showcase new trade initiatives with Latin America, was totally overshadowed by the scandal. Presidential trips are carefully calculated to generate positive publicity and create goodwill at home and abroad, so the prostitution sideshow just wiped that one out.

Such incidents are not just bad for image—they raise all kinds of issues in the safety area. For one thing, the agents themselves are compromised, even made susceptible to pressure and blackmail, particularly if they want to keep their jobs and if, as in numerous cases, the agents were married.

But this is not new. Go back almost half a century, and look at the most shocking dereliction of duty ever—the failures that made it easy for someone (or someones) to assassinate John F Kennedy. The failings are endless, from not insisting that the bubble top go on Kennedy’s car, to having too few Secret Service agents protecting the president, to authorizing a particularly dangerous route that slowed the car way down, to allowing it to go through a canyon of windows—and then not checking or securing the windows or installing spotters or sharpshooters. A grade school kid could have done a more serious job of protecting the president.

Here’s an excerpt from Warren Commission questions to Special Agent Winston Lawson, who headed the Secret Service detail for Kennedy’s Dallas trip:

Mr. McCloy:

During the course of the motorcade while the motorcade was in motion, no matter how slowly, you had no provision for anyone on the roofs?

Mr. Lawson:

No, sir.

Mr. McCloy:

Or no one to watch the windows?

Mr. Lawson:

Oh, yes. The police along the area were to watch the crowds and their general area. The agents riding in the followup car as well as myself in the lead car were watching the crowds and the windows and the rooftops as we progressed.

[snip]

Mr. Stern:

What were the instructions that you asked be given to the police who were stationed on overpasses and railroad crossings?

Mr. Lawson:

They were requested to keep the people to the sides of the bridge or the overpass so that-or underpass– so that people viewing from a vantage point like that would not be directly over the President’s car so that they could either inadvertently knock something off or drop something on purpose or do some other kind of harm.

And yet we continue to let this agency off the hook. We forgot that even LBJ, a direct beneficiary of the agency’s sloppiness with his former boss, trusted the outfit so little himself that he inquired at one point whether he could have the FBI protect him instead.

A Telling Bumper Sticker

It is foolish to ignore the worldviews and attitudes of people expected to protect presidents. Former Secret Service agent Abraham Bolden has described rampant racism and widespread contempt for Kennedy and his policies among Bolden’s fellow officers.

Now, here are a few salient details about the Secret Service today that go beyond trying to get a little “R&R”: When Washington Post reporters visited the Virginia home of Texas native David R. Chaney, one of the Secret Service supervisors on the Colombia trip, they found a silver pickup truck parked in front. On the vehicle they spotted abumper sticker with an outline of the state of Texas, and the word “secede.”

It is interesting to note that Chaney’s father served in the Secret Service when Kennedy was in office. As assistant agent in charge of personnel, he was friends with many of the agents who were in Dallas in November, 1963.

Speaking of Dallas, consider these excerpts from a Warren Commission affidavit of Texas Sen. Ralph Yarborough, who was riding in the motorcade:

After the shooting, one of the secret service men sitting down in the car in front of us pulled out an automatic rifle or weapon and looked backward. However, all of the secret service men seemed to me to respond very slowly, with no more than a puzzled look. In fact, until the automatic weapon was uncovered, I had been lulled into a sense of false hope for the President’s safety, by the lack of motion, excitement, or apparent visible knowledge by the secret service men, that anything so dreadful was happening. Knowing something of the training that combat infantrymen and Marines receive, I am amazed at the lack of instantaneous response by the Secret Service, when the rifle fire began. I make this statement in this paragraph reluctantly, not to add to the anguish of anyone, but it is my firm opinion, and I write it out in the hope that it might be of service in the better protection of our Presidents in the future.

In the early 60s, Secret Service protection was downright awful. Henry Bosworth, the late editor of the Quincy Sun newspaper in Massachusetts, used to recount how he climbed aboard a press bus with no credentials, was asked no questions nor frisked for weapons, and found himself inside Hyannisport having drinks with JFK himself.

And how is it now? Here’s an account of a WhoWhatWhy friend, from an Obama campaign stop in Grand Forks, North Dakota, in April, 2008.

The night before I went to the convention center/domed stadium about 10pm & was walking the convention center concourse when I encountered a private security guard. We made small talk & soon he volunteered that his job the next day was to escort Obama from the ballroom through the kitchen into the main arena for the speech.

I said to him that sounds like the scenario from the RFK scene in 1968. He didn’t know what I meant. I clued him in. The point is the SS was stupid enough to allow an amateur to be a part of security.

The next day I positioned myself by the kitchen exit, not that close but in a position to be the 1st person that Obama would greet if he were to go toward those seats. I reminded an SS agent about the discussion with the security guard from the night before & he agreed that it shouldn’t have happened but he wasn’t in the area when Obama did walk out as I had been told he would. The security guard actually walked over to me & thanked me for giving him a story to tell his grandkids. I guess the glitches in security are more common than we imagine—but more likely if you have hookers on your mind.

Oh, by the way: during renewed government inquiries into JFK’s death in the 1990s, the Secret Service destroyed crucial assassination-related records.

(Posted for research purposes only)

Edited May 2, 2012 by Greg Burnham

[Malcolm Ward]

Complicity or Complexity.

When the IRA were active in the UK they used to say,"We only have to get lucky once."In other words,take advantage when you see a breach in security.

In 1974,Princess Anne was nearly kidnapped,and if it were a attack on her life instead she would be dead.

At 7:45pm on Wednesday 20th March 1974 HRH Princess Anne and her then husband Mark Phillips had been to a charity film presentation and were returning back to Buckingham Palace. Driving up "The Mall" the link road to the palace in their chauffeur driven Rolls Royce they were passed by another car which forced their driver to stop the car, by pulling in front of it,

The Princess was accompanied by her bodyguard, Inspector James Beaton and driver Alec Callender. The inspector pulled his walther ppk out of its housing to find that the assailant had a revolver pointed at Callender.

The attacker, Ian Ball approached the window of the Rolls Royce and said

" I want you to come with me for a day or two, because I want two million. Will you get out of the car?"

Princess Anne is well regarded for having a resolute spirit and said

" Not bloody likely, and I havn't got two million".

Ball shot at Inspector Beaton and Callander wounding both men, before grabbing the princesses arm and telling the policemen "Drop that gun, or i'll shoot her".

As Ball tried to grab hold of the princess, her husband, Captain Mark Phillips grabbed her, pulled her into the car and managed to close the door.

Further gunfire resulted in Ball shooting Inspector Beaton in the stomach and a policeman PC Micheal Hills who had rushed over from St. Jame's palace was also shot in the stomach.

The area where the attack occurred did attract some visitors even at night when it was still dark. A journalist, Brian McConnell approached Ball and said

" You can't do that these are my friends, don't be silly, just give me the gun"

This brave man was shot in the chest by Ball.

Another passer by Ronald Russell punched Ball in the head and although Ball tried to retaliate he missed Russell, starting to realise that he was unlikely to succeed he started to run off. He didn't get too far before he was rugby tackled by Detective Constable Peter Edmonds.

It wasn't a long attack but in seven minutes, eleven bullets wered fired and four people were injured.

Ball appeared at Crown Court charged with two counts of attempted murder, two of wounding and one of attempting to steal and carry away Her Royal Highness Princess Anne.

Ball was diagnosed as a schizophrenic and was detained under the Mental Health Act.

Inspector Beaton was awarded one of the highest medals for bravery, the George Cross, PC Hills, the George Medal and Callender, McConnell and Russell, the Queen's gallantry Medal.

http://case1worker.h...H-Princess-Anne

Then there was the Brighton Bomb attack by the IRA on Margarette Thatcher and her Government.

1984: Tory Cabinet in Brighton bomb blast

There has been a direct bomb attack on the British Government at the Conservative party conference in Brighton.

At least two people have been killed and many others seriously injured, including two senior Cabinet ministers.

The blast tore apart the Brighton Grand Hotel where members of the Cabinet have been staying for the Conservative party conference.

Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and her husband Dennis narrowly escaped injury.

The IRA has issued a statement claiming it had placed a 100lb bomb in the hotel.

The statement read: "Today we were unlucky, but remember, we only have to be lucky once; you will have to be lucky always. Give Ireland peace and there will be no war."

The dead have not yet been named. Among the injured were Trade and Industry Secretary Norman Tebbit, his wife Margaret and Government Chief Whip, John Wakeham.

Pulled from the rubble

Firemen used BBC arc lights after cables were cut to rescue Mr Tebbit from the rubble, in a painstaking operation that took several hours.

Breakfast television showed pictures of the rescue and a conscious Mr Tebbit, clearly in pain, being stretchered to safety. His wife suffered neck injuries.

The bomb went off at 0254 local time, ripping open the front of the hotel on the top floors and sending masonry crashing down on guests sleeping below.

Fireman say many lives were probably saved because the well-constructed Victorian hotel remained standing, despite the central section of eight floors collapsing into the basement.

At Mrs Thatcher's insistence the conference opened on schedule at 0930. In her redrafted speech to the party she declared:

"This attack has failed. All attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail."

The Queen was said to be "very shocked" by the bombing. Opposition Leader Neil Kinnock expressed his "horror and outrage".

Meanwhile security in the seaside town has been massively increased as rescue workers continue to search for people trapped in the rubble.

Detectives are now beginning a major investigation into who was behind the bombing and how such a major breach in security occurred.

http://news.bbc.co.u...000/2531583.stm

Last years attack on Prince Charles.

Prince Charles and Duchess of Cornwall unhurt in attack

A car carrying Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall was attacked by protesters but the couple were unharmed, Clarence House has said.

Protesters kicked, threw paint and smashed a window of the car which was travelling along Regent Street in central London.

A spokeswoman said the couple later attended the Royal Variety performance as scheduled.

They left the theatre in a police van after the performance.

Adnan Nazir, 23, was one of the first to recognise the royal couple in their Rolls-Royce.

"I said, 'It's Camilla'. I wasn't trying to alert them. I was just surprised to see her. A few people turned around and started hitting the windows. People started kicking the car," he said.

He added that the prince remained calm, "waving and giving the thumbs up".

Another eyewitness told BBC News: "I came forward and I saw him on the back seat. It was definitely Prince Charles, no doubt about it. They tried to protect him but there was too many of them."

The car behind, an official royal Jaguar, also came under attack.

Camilla laughed off the attack. As she left the Palladium, she said: "I'm fine, thanks - first time for everything." The Prince of Wales smiled.

Scotland Yard has condemned the "outrageous and increasing levels of violence".

A spokesman said: "It has gone so far that a car in which the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall were travelling through the West End was attacked. Police managed the situation and they were unharmed."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11965454

It just shows that a attack can happen with the right conditions on anyone who is in a Powerful position.It is my belief if they could not do the job of killing JFK in Dallas they would have got him somewhere else.They were out to get him and they,not Oswald were powerful.All they needed to know was that security would be lax,as it was.If it was tight,the mission would have been aborted and done elsewhere.The only scenario that would have made JFK safer would have been a botched attempt.One in which he was fired at but escaped injured or unhurt.Then JFK and the public would have been convinced of the need for tighter security.

[Greg Burnham]

There should be no alternative to 100% tight security 100% of the time when protecting the president. Is that really too much to ask? After all, keeping the POTUS alive is the Presidential Protective Detail's ONLY reason to even exist. It is their ONLY job.

.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Greg Burnham

[Len Colby]

"...died of lead poisoning..." is a euphemism for a violent takeover. It was not meant literally. He didn't die, his rule did. He wasn't shot with lead bullets, but may has well have been.

Burnham's inability to admit error extends to the comments of others he posts here. "...Died of lead poisoning...", is often a lounge-in cheek way of saying shot to death. I have never seen it used as "a euphemism for a violent takeover," perhaps Burnham can prove me wrong and point to another case of it being used in the way he claims.

Prouty frequently spouted nonsense, for example according to Paul Kangas "He said he delivered three ships to a CIA agent named George Bush, who had the 3 ships painted to look like they were civilian ships. That CIA agent then named the 3 ships after: his wife, his home town and his oil company. He named the ships: Barbara, Houston & Zapata" but none of the ships was named 'Zapata'. The BoP was codenamed 'Operation Zapata' but that was derived from the landing site on the Zapata Peninsula, I doubt someone who held the position he claimed, military advisor to JFK, would not have known this. Also the other ship was named the 'Barabara J.' and Mrs. Bush's maiden name was Pierce and she did not have a middle name.

Also he wrote "I was in Lima, Peru, in March of 1964 when DeGaulle came and captivated the country of Peru." The French president visited the South America capital in September 1964.

http://paulkangas.tr.../hepatitis.html

http://newspaperarch...ews/1964-09-26/

So Burham, please spell out to us your actual experience "protected the lives of targets or ...ever having been protected by body guards."

Edited May 2, 2012 by Len Colby

[Pat Speer]

"...died of lead poisoning..." is a euphemism for a violent takeover. It was not meant literally. He didn't die, his rule did. He wasn't shot with lead bullets, but may has well have been.

So we agree that Prouty was spewing inaccurate information.

"Died of lead poisoning," as you are undoubtedly aware, is a euphemism for being shot to death. It's quite a stretch to think Prouty would use such an expression to convey "put under house arrest." His speech was on assassination, and it seems clear he thought Mossadegh was assassinated.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Pat Speer

[Greg Burnham]

No, Pat, we do not agree. The sentence in question is more or less a "throw away" line. Where I believe Prouty was speaking in a colorful manner you believe he was misinformed. Yet, during the pertinent years and shortly thereafter, Prouty was definitely in a position to know exactly what happened.

In 1955 he was appointed the first "Focal Point" officer between the CIA and the Air Force for Clandestine Operations per National Security Council Directive 5412.

[Len Colby]

So Greg don't you think claiming the codename Operation Zapata came from Bush's company rather than the landing site counts "spewing inaccurate information"? If he really was part of DeGaulle's security team why was off about the date by 9 months?

[Kathleen Collins]

Sorry, Kathleen. Altgens never denied taking that photograph. And not only that. He discussed his taking of that photograph on numerous occasions.

All I can say is most people who follow this crime believe Altgens DID take the picture. So I will say ask Jack White. He's been ill, but it's his writing.

Kathy C

[Guest Tom Scully]

Sorry, Kathleen. Altgens never denied taking that photograph. And not only that. He discussed his taking of that photograph on numerous occasions.

All I can say is most people who follow this crime believe Altgens DID take the picture. So I will say ask Jack White. He's been ill, but it's his writing.

Kathy C

You people astound me. You assume all photos and films are genuine.

You assume that all photos were taken by PEOPLE. It is entirely likely

that the CIA, assuming they were in charge of the operation, had the

plaza area LITERALLY LOADED with AUTOMATED CAMERAS. Other photos

attributed to ordinary people were actually taken by agents.

I remember reading where Marie Muchmore said she only filmed on

Houston Street and DID NOT SHOOT THE ASSASSINATION SEQUENCE

ATTRIBUTED TO HER.

Ike Altgens denied taking frames 4, 5, and 8 attributed to him.

I strongly believe that some photos were taken by automated devices.

I place Altgens 5 in that category.

Why would anyone who believes in a SOPHISTICATED plot involving

the CIA that the agency would NOT have many cameras in the plaza?

Makes no sense to me.

Jack

Here is a good example of some Altgens tampering. Two different contact

prints are shown of "Altgens 5". Can any one explain why the marking

on the edge is different?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=18975

Jack

Edited May 3, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Kathleen Collins]

Thank you, Tom.

Kathy C

[Michael Hogan]

Good stuff, Michael. You always offer very relevant data at just the right time. Great work...as usual.

Greg, thank you very much. Certainly appreciated.

Have you had opportunity to speak with Jack White? I do hope he is recovering.

[Greg Burnham]

Good stuff, Michael. You always offer very relevant data at just the right time. Great work...as usual.

Greg, thank you very much. Certainly appreciated.

Have you had opportunity to speak with Jack White? I do hope he is recovering.

I haven't spoken to him for quite some time. I seem to have called at the wrong times recently. He is still receiving a lot of in home care. Sure do miss him though...

[Michael Hogan]

Have you had opportunity to speak with Jack White? I do hope he is recovering.

I haven't spoken to him for quite some time. I seem to have called at the wrong times recently. He is still receiving a lot of in home care. Sure do miss him though...

Greg, when you catch up with Jack, please ask him if he has read William Dear's new book. If not, I would love to send him a copy.

Jack was quite impressed by Dear's first book.

I also miss Jack White's participation here. I sure wish him well.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Michael Hogan