The TRAP

[Paul Trejo]

...Robert Earl Croft...was interviewed on November 23, 1963 at the Western States Mission Home on Clarkson St. in Denver. Croft told the two FBI agents "Concerning the weekend events I have almost no recollection of the details."

His timeline started out on a LDS missionary trip to Little Rock, Arkansas then to Dealey Plaza, shooting one photo almost simultaneously with Altgens.......using an old Argus C-3 35 MM camera using a roll of 36 exposure Kodachrome-X daylight color slide film.

Others who are familiar with some work I did regarding the high quality Kodachrome images taken in front of the Texas Theater, may understand why I am so skeptical that Croft was some sort of benign figure....

Cheers

Robert, this is intriguing. For those of us who are unfamiliar with your work on Kodachrome images, please tell us why you're skeptical that this Mormon missionary could have been a benign figure.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited December 16, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Ian Kingsbury]

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Croft%20Robert%20Earl/Item%2003.pdf

Paul

Some info here!.

[Robert Howard]

I am having a bout with the flu, actually a lot worse than that, but I was trying to find a little more detail about the Reed family, specifically that 1979 obit, which is rather pertinent. Not very successful in that regard.

Below will provide some salient details....

Below from JAMES W. POWELL IN DEALEY PLAZA Thread

http://educationforu...?showtopic=7809

Both photos were taken by Stuart L. Reed, who also snapped at least one shot of the TSBD and a number of shots of LHO being arrested and escorted outside the Texas Theatre [also contained in "TSFLHO"].

The quality of Reed's photos is remarkably good, suggesting that if he was an amateur photographer, he was quite gifted. More pertinent, however, is that it seems Stuart Reed snapped the TSBD not long after the assassination, as well as Oswald's getaway bus with Oswald on it, and the subsequent arrest. Had Reed been a news photographer in Dallas, one could easily attribute his ubiquitous omnipresence at all the hotspots that day to his connections with local police and members of the press. Yet, it appears Reed had no such source of immediate inside information.

In a case already claustrophobic with coincidences, we seem to have yet another synchronicity. A private citizen photographed the building from which the assassin's bullets were purportedly fired, the very bus on which the purported assassin made his getaway [in two photos, as though trailing its progress], and the purported assassin's capture. The odds of this happening randomly are no doubt beyond the norms of statistical probability.

Reed's photos [or at least copies of 14 JFK-related slides] seem to have found a repository at the Southeastern Louisiana University, and I think Reed devoted himself to running the family's sod farm in New Jersey in the interim. He would have been in his mid-20's in 1963, as I recall, and I think he may have been serving an active military hitch at the time, but cannot remember anything specific. I believe others here know something more about Stuart Reed, and I'd welcome any additional details about this remarkably lucky photographer.

end

576. Commission Document 577 - FBI Letterhead Memorandum of 07 Mar 1964 6 pages re: Oswald DALLAS Exhibit D-84 is three enlargements made from 35 mm transparencies taken by Stuart J. Reed P O Box 196, Balboa, Heights Panama Canal Zone depicting the apprehension of Lee Harvey Oswald on November 22, 1963 in Dallas, Texas in front of the Texas Theater. made available by Mrs F. A. Holley, 1207 Sunnyside Place daughter of Stuart Reed

end

Dallas Morning News 10-1-1977

Golden Weddings

Mr. and Mrs. Reed

Estelle and Stuart Reed of 3108, Maple Leaf Lane

will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary

with a reception given by their children from 3 to 5 pm

at St. John Presbyterian Church, 3701 Westmoreland.

The Reed were married Oct. 1, 1927 in Galveston.

Reed retired in 1968 as the executive Director

of the Panama Canal Zone Civil Service System

after 32 years in the Army.

Reed also served with the Department of the Army

in Italy. Mrs. Reed is a retired Red Cross first aid

and water safety worker.

The Reed’s have two children, one grandaughter

and one great-grandaughter

Regarding Paul's question about Mr Croft, I have no special information other than the fact that if there are indications, that something is not quite right, then common sense dictates that one considers the possibilities. The Reed family as a point in comparison to Croft is an example of just too many coincidences. Just happened to be in front of the Texas Theater when Lee Oswald is brought out front, just happened to have a military link to the family involved in providing the photos to the Dallas authorities, just happened to have a really high-quality camera....Reed was not the only person who fits this incredible coincidence dynamic, try Jack Martin shooting in Dealey Plaza, who also

had some interesting connections....

So regarding Robert Croft, if it hadn't taken me ages to obtain a copy of Trask's Pictures of The Pain, [i am not in a position to just go out a buy books on an unlimited budget], I would have posted about Croft ages ago. Ultimately, my interest in Croft is purely based on conjecture, what drew me to his story was his 'not remembering' about his trip to Dallas, his Mormon missionary work and the fact, that, at least for my own experience I was unable to find him in the Warren Commission documents, I know about the obvious FBI interviews from November 23, 1963. But I personally was unable to find him in any Warren Commission documents, if I am correct about that, then that is also something that piqued my interest.

So there you have it......

The website 'sorted by name,' may provide some pertinent information.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Robert Howard

[Paul Trejo]

I am having a bout with the flu, actually a lot worse than that, but I was trying to find a little more detail about the Reed family, specifically that 1979 obit, which is rather pertinent. Not very successful in that regard.

Below will provide some salient details....

Regarding Paul's question about Mr Croft, I have no special information other than the fact that if there are indications, that something is not quite right, then common sense dictates that one considers the possibilities. The Reed family as a point in comparison to Croft is an example of just too many coincidences. Just happened to be in front of the Texas Theater when Lee Oswald is brought out front, just happened to have a military link to the family involved in providing the photos to the Dallas authorities, just happened to have a really high-quality camera....Reed was not the only person who fits this incredible coincidence dynamic, try Jack Martin shooting in Dealey Plaza, who also had some interesting connections....

So regarding Robert Croft, if it hadn't taken me ages to obtain a copy of Trask's Pictures of The Pain, [i am not in a position to just go out a buy books on an unlimited budget], I would have posted about Croft ages ago. Ultimately, my interest in Croft is purely based on conjecture, what drew me to his story was his 'not remembering' about his trip to Dallas, his Mormon missionary work and the fact, that, at least for my own experience I was unable to find him in the Warren Commission documents, I know about the obvious FBI interviews from November 23, 1963. But I personally was unable to find him in any Warren Commission documents, if I am correct about that, then that is also something that piqued my interest.

So there you have it......

The website 'sorted by name,' may provide some pertinent information.

Robert, I'm sorry for your flu. Please take care of yourself.

Also, thanks for clarifying your suspicions about Croft, also Reed. I find them interesting as well.

Now, however, you also mentioned a Jack Martin in Dealey Plaza. This piqued my own interest.

I'm aware of what Martin Shackelford, 20 years ago, called "The Jack Martin Film," and I've been keen to see it ever since, and have never seen it.

Just because you mentioned "Jack Martin," Robert, I'm going to share this blurb from Martin Shackleford (1993) about "The Jack Martin Film" of August, 1963:

------------------ Begin blurb from Martin Shackleford, 1993 ------------------------

...A tourist named Jack Martin was in Dallas in August 1963. His film records his view from the airplane. Next, he visits General Edwin Walker, under whom he had served, allegedly target of an assassination attempt by Lee Oswald in April of that year. The film documents the scene of that attempt: the window through which the shot was fired, the bullet hole, and the wall from behind which it was most likely fired, ending with shots of Walker's flag and mailbox, and a nearby building under construction (allegedly also photographed by Oswald prior to the attempt!) . Then we see the entrance to a movie theater, cypress trees, a seal at the edge of a pool, and the statue of Andrew Jackson in Lafayette Park in New Orleans. Aroused by a commotion on Canal Street, Martin crossed to see what was happening, and began filming. We see Lee Oswald, leaflets in hand, standing on the sidewalk, being harangued by anti-Castro militants including Carlos Bringuier. Four police officers are seen arriving. The film ends with a view of the yellow leaflets scattered on the sidewalk after Bringuier knocked them out of Oswald's hands, and a brief aerial view of a subdivision...

------------------ End blurb from Martin Shackleford, 1993 ------------------------

Now, I realize that Jack Martin is an extremely common name. What information can you offer about the Jack Martin film in Dealey Plaza? I will try to determine if it was the same Jack Martin.

But please look -- the Jack Martin who filmed the "Jack Martin Film" of August, 1963, was in his early 20's and in 1960 he had served in Germany with then General Edwin Walker, impressed by the Pro-Blue program. When he returned to the USA in 1962 Jack Martin joined the Minutemen organization and remained in close contact with ex-General Edwin Walker.

At some point in August 1963 General Walker invited this young Jack Martin to his house in Dallas to film the bullet holes in his house that his assassin had made on 10 April 1963. Then, Jack Martin traveled to New Orleans to film -- with the same roll of film -- Lee Harvey Oswald in a fight with Carlos Bringuier on Canal Street in New Orleans. The Jack Martin Film links the Dallas Walker shooting with Lee Harvey Oswald in a material way. This was no accidental tourist.

So,Robert, you can see my intrigue. If the same Jack Martin was in Dealey Plaza making photographs or other film, I am keen to see that work. A description of that work would be very interesting. Yet please get well, first, before struggling further with this thread. It's not worth your well-being.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited December 17, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Hogan]

Now, I realize that Jack Martin is an extremely common name. What information can you offer about the Jack Martin film in Dealey Plaza? I will try to determine if it was the same Jack Martin.

But please look -- the Jack Martin who filmed the "Jack Martin Film" of August, 1963, was in his early 20's and in 1960 he had served in Germany with then General Edwin Walker, impressed by the Pro-Blue program. When he returned to the USA in 1962 Jack Martin joined the Minutemen organization and remained in close contact with ex-General Edwin Walker.

At some point in August 1963 General Walker invited this young Jack Martin to his house in Dallas to film the bullet holes in his house that his assassin had made on 10 April 1963. Then, Jack Martin traveled to New Orleans to film -- with the same roll of film -- Lee Harvey Oswald in a fight with Carlos Bringuier on Canal Street in New Orleans. The Jack Martin Film links the Dallas Walker shooting with Lee Harvey Oswald in a material way. This was no accidental tourist.

So,Robert, you can see my intrigue. If the same Jack Martin was in Dealey Plaza making photographs or other film, I am keen to see that work. A description of that work would be very interesting. Yet please get well, first, before struggling further with this thread. It's not worth your well-being.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul,

Two different men for sure: http://www.maryferre...05&relPageId=33

[Len Colby]

PART 1

==============

"Startling new claims are coming out about the Rothschild relationship with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. According to one Steve Davis, whose father was the highest ranking Mason in Utah, and an employee of the Rothschilds, the Church was suckered into buying $500 million dollars of worthless "swamp land" by two of its Counselors in the early 1960s. Davis claims that the Church lien that resulted gave the Rockefeller family control over all Church assets, including Temple Square through Chase Manhattan Bank.

Apparently, Swiss Billionaire Robert Vincent de Oliverri, the second richest Rothschild in the world at the time, joined the LDS faith after two missionaries knocked on his door. The Illuminati will often join Churches and other organizations to move them into their globalist agenda. In what appears to be a "hand-off" from the Rockefellers to the Rothschilds, Oliverri flew into Salt Lake City and wrote a $500 million dollar check to pay off the Rockefeller lien."

http://www.informedi...e-mormon-church (link with photo)

The above photo purports to show Steve Davis's father, Clyde Davis, picking up Oliverri at the Salt Lake Airport. According to Steve, Clyde was placed in charge of acquiring major contributions for the LDS Church.

The implications of all this are staggering and could answer the questions of how Illuminati Globalists, like Joseph Cannon, Chris Cannon, Mitt Romney, Orrin Hatch, Harry Reid, the Marriotts, and a slew of others have risen to prominence within the Mormon Church.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Is There a Rothschild-Mormon Connection?

Here Many good and strong individuals in the LDS (Mormon) Church, like myself, have been disgusted by the actions of so-called Mormon politicians, newspaper editors, and corporate leaders that march lock-step with the Illuminati "New World Order" agenda. Nothing happens by accident. Svali, a former Illuminati "trainer" claims that some members of the Mormon Church affiliated with the Illuminati in the 1950s.

[...]

1. This has almost nothing to do with the topic of thread

2. The story is pure bull there never was such a person as "Robert Vincent de Oliverri,", despite the claim he was "the second richest Rothschild in the world" there is no sign of him in Google Books, News or Scholar he only 'turns up' on obscure websites, forums and blogs.

3. The "Illuminati" LOL some members of this forum, rightfully get offended when 'they' are cited for 'their' supposed role in various plots

3.

[Paul Trejo]

Hi Paul,

Two different men for sure: http://www.maryferre...05&relPageId=33

Thanks, Michael, for clearing that up. By the way, if you find anything else about the Jack Martin from Minnesota, I would be delighted to hear about it.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Steven Gaal]

PART 1

==============

"Startling new claims are coming out about the Rothschild relationship with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. According to one Steve Davis, whose father was the highest ranking Mason in Utah, and an employee of the Rothschilds, the Church was suckered into buying $500 million dollars of worthless "swamp land" by two of its Counselors in the early 1960s. Davis claims that the Church lien that resulted gave the Rockefeller family control over all Church assets, including Temple Square through Chase Manhattan Bank.

Apparently, Swiss Billionaire Robert Vincent de Oliverri, the second richest Rothschild in the world at the time, joined the LDS faith after two missionaries knocked on his door. The Illuminati will often join Churches and other organizations to move them into their globalist agenda. In what appears to be a "hand-off" from the Rockefellers to the Rothschilds, Oliverri flew into Salt Lake City and wrote a $500 million dollar check to pay off the Rockefeller lien."

http://www.informedi...e-mormon-church (link with photo)

The above photo purports to show Steve Davis's father, Clyde Davis, picking up Oliverri at the Salt Lake Airport. According to Steve, Clyde was placed in charge of acquiring major contributions for the LDS Church.

The implications of all this are staggering and could answer the questions of how Illuminati Globalists, like Joseph Cannon, Chris Cannon, Mitt Romney, Orrin Hatch, Harry Reid, the Marriotts, and a slew of others have risen to prominence within the Mormon Church.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Is There a Rothschild-Mormon Connection?

Here Many good and strong individuals in the LDS (Mormon) Church, like myself, have been disgusted by the actions of so-called Mormon politicians, newspaper editors, and corporate leaders that march lock-step with the Illuminati "New World Order" agenda. Nothing happens by accident. Svali, a former Illuminati "trainer" claims that some members of the Mormon Church affiliated with the Illuminati in the 1950s.

[...]

1. This has almost nothing to do with the topic of thread

2. The story is pure bull there never was such a person as "Robert Vincent de Oliverri,", despite the claim he was "the second richest Rothschild in the world" there is no sign of him in Google Books, News or Scholar he only 'turns up' on obscure websites, forums and blogs.

3. The "Illuminati" LOL some members of this forum, rightfully get offended when 'they' are cited for 'their' supposed role in various plots

3.

==================

Social Security Death Index

Birth, Marriage & Death

Name: Robert Bra D. Oliveri Birth: date Death: dd mm 2002 - city, Prince Georges, Maryland, United States of America Civil: District of Columbia

[Paul Trejo]

This thread stretches from Harry Dean's suspicions about a secret, Mormon political movement on the far right wing, to the identification of young Jack Martin who filmed both Walker's home bullet holes and Lee Harvey Oswald's arrest on Canal Street on the same roll of home movie film.

Although Harry has expressed his comfort with the notion that this Jack Martin might have served in the US Army at the age of 15 in Augsburg, Germany, under then Major General Edwin A. Walker from 1960-1961, I personally cannot accept that.

I realize that in war time the US Army might stretch the age of service to acommodate zealous, larger boys, I cannot see my way to accept that the US Army would do that during peace time. Yet even if somebody were to prove to me, using Army records, that underage boys did serve, I have a further difficulty in ascribing that scenario to the Jack Martin who filmed the Jack Martin Film -- I take the eye-witness account of Harold Weisberg and Gary Schoener as firm evidence.

Gary Schoener was in his mid-20's in 1968 and he recollects that this Jack Martin was older by a few years. Not old enough to be the father of a teenager, either. But perhaps 8-10 years older than a boy who was 17 in 1965.

Further, I think we are spared that puzzle by the fact that the official records of Minutemen members which the FBI received from a field operative in December 1965 fail to indicate the date in which the membership record of "John T. Martin" was originally typed. That solves the mystery, IMHO. It is entirely plausible that this membership record about "John T. Martin" was originally typed in 1960, making him one of the first Minutemen in the USA.

If that was the case, then when Weisberg and Schoener met Jack Martin in 1968 and received the Jack Martin Film from him, stipulating that John T. Martin was 17 in, say, January, 1960. he could have easily turned 18 in 1960, and joined the US Army to serve in Germany between under General Walker between 1960-1961. If so, then Jack Martin would have been 25 years old in 1968. Then the eye-witness account of Gary Schoener would follow easily.

Thus we would conclude that Gary Schoener's account was true, and so was the FBI's account, when they told Weisberg and Schoener to contact John T. Martin in Minnesota, and gave Schoener this address from the MM membership list.

(One might ask -- why did the FBI tell Weisberg and Schoener about John T. Martin's address in the first place? As I recall, it happened something like this: at some point, after they made copies of the film, Weisberg and Schoener decided to give the film to the FBI for their comments. Later, when they went to retrieve the film from the FBI, they were informed that the FBI had returned the original to its owner -- to John T. Martin in Minnesota. If they wanted to examine the film further, said the FBI, they would need to contact John T. Martin personally, since it was, according to their records, his private property and nobody else's. So, Harlold Weisberg and Gary Schoener retained copies in their personal files, and presumably Martin Shackleford received his copy from them. Gary chose to forget about John T. Martin, but 25 years later he realized that he should have made the effort to contact that young man earlier -- he had many more questions.)

As for the Mormon angle -- we don't know the religion of John T. Martin in Minnesota, although in the 1960's we might be surprised to find Mormons in Minnesota (though it remains possible). In my personal opinion, I am willing to ignore the religion of the ground-crew of the JFK hit -- I feel sure that the extreme right-wing accepted people from any religion.

Nevertheless, I would also like to chime in about the so-called Illuminati. Although I'm disinclined to draw grandiose conspiracy theories that blame the faceless Illuminati for every conspiracy in history, I am also realistic enough to admit that the Illuminati (which is merely an offshoot of the Masonic Lodge, much like the Rosicrucians) actually do exist. (I've also read that the organizational structure of the Mormon Tabernacle was modeled after the Masonic Lodge to a remarkable degree.)

Furthermore, when it comes to secret organizations that welcome odd-fellows of every stripe, the Illuminati have also had their fair share of wackos. Anybody that operates underground is capable of -- well -- anything. So, it would not be far-fetched to find Illuminati as well as Mormons joined in unholy union with WASP Minutemen and Catholic Cuban Exiles in the paramilitary training camps of Lake Pontcharttrain and similar paramilitary training camps.

Yet in my opinion, going by the little information we have so far, we will make more progress by a focus upon the Minutemen organization as such, rather than upon the various religions of its individual members. Politics make strange bedfellows. In the case of Anticommunist extremists, who even regarded US Presidents to be Communists, religion would have been incidental, IMHO. For example, ex-General Edwin Walker was an Episcopalian -- and so were most Presidents of the USA.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited December 22, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Len Colby]

==================

Social Security Death Index

Birth, Marriage & Death

Name: Robert Bra D. Oliveri Birth: date Death: dd mm 2002 - city, Prince Georges, Maryland, United States of America Civil: District of Columbia

Robert Vincent de Oliverri

vs.

Robert Bra D. Oliveri

Different spelling of last name, one ‘r’ instead of two, different middle name(s) ‘Vincent’ vs. ‘Bra’ ‘D.’ (thought the latter was probably a ‘typo’ for ‘de’

Received his SS# in Washington D.C and died Prince Georges, MD (DC suburb). doesn’t match supposed bio of a “Swiss Billionaire” who moved to Salt Lake City. And it gets worse:

On the same site the 1930 Census lists a Robert B Oliveri, Birth: abt 1921 - District of Columbia, Residence: 1930 - city, Prince Georges, Maryland, the 1940 Census lists a Robert Oliveri, Birth: abt 1921 - District of Columbia, Residence: 1935 - Washington, District of Columbia, District of Columbia, Residence: Washington, District of Columbia, District of Columbia. The Web: Obituary Daily Times Index, 1995-2012, Birth, Marriage & Death lists: Robert B Oliveri Sr, Birth: Abt 1921, Death: abt 2002, Other: 25 Jan 2002. Various other indexes list Robert ( Oliveri Sr. or Jr. living in Maryland and a Robert Oliveri in Delaware. The same site produced no compatible results for Utah or Switzerland, no Robert V. Oliveri or anyone named Oliverri. So neither he nor his son seem to have ever resided anywhere but DC or MD (probably PG county) and possibly DE let alone in Europe or anywhere near Utah and you have produced further evidence there never was a Robert V. Oliveri/OliverrI. Another owngaal!

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=ms_f-2_s&gsfn=robert+&gsln=oliveri&mswpn__ftp=Washington%2C+District+of+Columbia%2C+USA&mswpn=6076&mswpn_PInfo=8-%7C0%7C1652393%7C0%7C2%7C3244%7C11%7C0%7C0%7C6076%7C0%7C&uidh=000

If you want to shell out a few bucks you can get more data about these enteries but I think you will be wasting your money.

Even if someone named Robert Vincent de Oliverri (or Oliveri) existed it doesn’t make sense that if what was said about him were true the only references to him on obscure websites, blogs and forums

[Paul Trejo]

Will the TRAP, set so long ago, and exposed in the 1990 manuscript/book titled CROSSTRAILS (chapter two} be tripped by the intended victims themselves in the 2012 presidential election?

So, Harry, I believe the results of the 2012 election have answered your question - at least for now. Mitt Romney was set to become the first Mormon President of the USA. Yet the USA would not accept a Tea Party White House with its extreme rightist approach to rolling back voting rights and women's control over their own health.

It reminds me a little bit of 1963 -- even though the extreme right (IMHO) forced JFK out of their way in 1963, the perpetrators of the JFK murder did not get their way. The assassination of JFK was supposed to shock the USA into invading Cuba. A Communist was successfully blamed -- Lee Harvey Oswald was a self-avowed officer of the Communist FPCC (Fair Play for Cuba Committee) so beloved by Fidel Castro.

Nevertheless, the American public did not respond by invading Cuba.

Instead, a second plot arose -- not the JFK assassination plot -- but the JFK assassination coverup plot. These plotter were not extreme rightists -- they were moderate rightists. These were not the same people that killed JFK, they had a separate agenda -- they wanted to prevent World War III; they wanted to prevent a Civil War in the USA.

Yes, they were, as Sylvia Meagher claimed, "accomplices after the fact," but they wanted -- and obtained -- a far different result than the JFK assassins. They knew who the JFK assassins were, and they saw to it that the JFK assassins failed to get the result they intended.

There was no USA invasion of Cuba. There was no swing to the extreme-right in the USA. We did not elect Barry Goldwater. We did not drop nuclear bombs on Hanoi.

Instead, LBJ was re-elected, and although he muddled through the Vietnam conflict, he also gave the USA the Great Society programs that the extreme right detested and continues to detest to this very day, in their latest reincarnation as the Tea Part Republicans.

Finally, I don't hold the Mormon Church accountable for the Tea Parties, or for the extreme right in the USA. These extremists (who have regarded US Presidents as Communists) are not limited to one religion. There are men and women from all religions who espouse these McCarthyist beliefs in the 21st century. Their leading figure, IMHO, was ex-General Edwin Walker, and he was an Episcopalian.

So, Harry, I think that we successfully escaped the TRAP of the right-wing extremists this past election. IMHO, we as a nation must finally come to grips with the millions of our fellow citizens who believe in extreme rightist political views. That will be the challenge of the next four years.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited December 23, 2012 by Paul Trejo