Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Thomas Graves]

Amazing how those who have never read the book and feel it it so far beneath them to even LOOK in that direction can tell the rest of us its meaning, position, intent and anything else you need to know except for a well supported rebuttal beyond HAVE FAITH and BELIEVE...

[...]

Joseph,

You say we (Greg, Bernie, and I) encourage ourselves and others to "Have Faith and Believe" in our arguments against Harvey and Lee???

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

After all, you're the one with the quasi religion, the cult.

You need to learn some more appropriate insults, ones that won't come right back at you, like a boomerang.

--Tommy

Edited August 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Bernie Laverick]

Amazing how those who have never read the book and feel it it so far beneath them to even LOOK in that direction can tell the rest of us its meaning, position, intent and anything else you need to know except for a well supported rebuttal beyond HAVE FAITH and BELIEVE...

I see the trifecta is waiting and drooling over their next pithy response.

Tell us more about what we think, what we know, what the book says, what the evidence says since you have such a commanding grasp of the info...

Even a broken clock gets it right more often in a day than you three...

My God Bernie... how much more dim can you present yourself as? "clever twat"?

You come here and do what you do to make friends? You got the wrong forum dude, ROKC is just down the road, you can tell you're there when you smell that smell and see the oil running down the street...

You can tell you are there because it is the premium place to learn about any NEW developments in this conundrum. You can tell you are there because it isn't infested with little lonely middle aged men who are pumped up by their own sense of arrogant self importance. And whilst anyone is welcome to post at ROKC, beware, because if you import your haughty arrogance or try to derail, or lie, or spread malicious rumour, or smear tactics...you will be called out on it!

I know, for God fearing folk, their cussing is abominable. They use swear words you know. Disgusting. Cussing in front of the Lord like that. And so on and so on...blah blah blah...

Never mind the ground-breaking original research that is throwing up all manner of leads, never mind that eh? Let's talk about the cussing.

By the way David, I've just got that joke about the broken clock. That's so funny! You've posted it about 20 times in this topic alone and in all that time I just didn't get it. You see, what he means is that even if a clock isn't working, or has stopped, then at some point every twelve hours it will be in the right place. Think about it. So, simply multiply that by two (because there are 24 hours in one day, right?) and that's why he made that stunningly hilarious piece of observation comedy. All his own work apparently. Or maybe it was that one of JA's. Yeah, it'll be what he was ordered to joke!

[Greg Parker]

Amazing how those who have never read the book and feel it it so far beneath them to even LOOK in that direction can tell the rest of us its meaning, position, intent and anything else you need to know except for a well supported rebuttal beyond HAVE FAITH and BELIEVE...

[...]

Joseph,

You say we (Greg, Bernie, and I) encourage ourselves and others to "Have Faith and Believe" in our arguments against Harvey and Lee???

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

After all, you're the one with the quasi religion, the cult.

You need to learn some more appropriate insults, ones that won't come right back at you, like a boomerang.

--Tommy

Tommy,

he is simply and inappropriately trying to get rid of the labels he so richly deserves by pinning them on us. His total lack of imagination and propensity for original thought is betrayed by this gambit, as well as by the fact that he is merely a water carrier for someone else's (very muddy) water.

[Thomas Graves]

Amazing how those who have never read the book and feel it it so far beneath them to even LOOK in that direction can tell the rest of us its meaning, position, intent and anything else you need to know except for a well supported rebuttal beyond HAVE FAITH and BELIEVE...

I see the trifecta is waiting and drooling over their next pithy response.

Tell us more about what we think, what we know, what the book says, what the evidence says since you have such a commanding grasp of the info...

Even a broken clock gets it right more often in a day than you three...

My God Bernie... how much more dim can you present yourself as? "clever twat"?

You come here and do what you do to make friends? You got the wrong forum dude, ROKC is just down the road, you can tell you're there when you smell that smell and see the oil running down the street...

You can tell you are there because it is the premium place to learn about any NEW developments in this conundrum. You can tell you are there because it isn't infested with little lonely middle aged men who are pumped up by their own sense of arrogant self importance. And whilst anyone is welcome to post at ROKC, beware, because if you import your haughty arrogance or try to derail, or lie, or spread malicious rumour, or smear tactics...you will be called out on it!

I know, for God fearing folk, their cussing is abominable. They use swear words you know. Disgusting. Cussing in front of the Lord like that. And so on and so on...blah blah blah...

Never mind the ground-breaking original research that is throwing up all manner of leads, never mind that eh? Let's talk about the cussing.

By the way David, I've just got that joke about the broken clock. That's so funny! You've posted it about 20 times in this topic alone and in all that time I just didn't get it. You see, what he means is that even if a clock isn't working, or has stopped, then at some point every twelve hours it will be in the right place. Think about it. So, simply multiply that by two (because there are 24 hours in one day, right?) and that's why he made that stunningly hilarious piece of observation comedy. All his own work apparently. Or maybe it was that one of JA's. Yeah, it'll be what he was ordered to joke!

Bernie.

He's quite the "broken record" isn't he? And his mind? Well, golly, his mind might be compared to a over-wound Coo-Coo Clock.

--Tommy

Edited August 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Bernie Laverick]

Amazing how those who have never read the book and feel it it so far beneath them to even LOOK in that direction can tell the rest of us its meaning, position, intent and anything else you need to know except for a well supported rebuttal beyond HAVE FAITH and BELIEVE...

I see the trifecta is waiting and drooling over their next pithy response.

Tell us more about what we think, what we know, what the book says, what the evidence says since you have such a commanding grasp of the info...

Even a broken clock gets it right more often in a day than you three...

My God Bernie... how much more dim can you present yourself as? "clever twat"?

You come here and do what you do to make friends? You got the wrong forum dude, ROKC is just down the road, you can tell you're there when you smell that smell and see the oil running down the street...

You can tell you are there because it is the premium place to learn about any NEW developments in this conundrum. You can tell you are there because it isn't infested with little lonely middle aged men who are pumped up by their own sense of arrogant self importance. And whilst anyone is welcome to post at ROKC, beware, because if you import your haughty arrogance or try to derail, or lie, or spread malicious rumour, or smear tactics...you will be called out on it!

I know, for God fearing folk, their cussing is abominable. They use swear words you know. Disgusting. Cussing in front of the Lord like that. And so on and so on...blah blah blah...

Never mind the ground-breaking original research that is throwing up all manner of leads, never mind that eh? Let's talk about the cussing.

By the way David, I've just got that joke about the broken clock. That's so funny! You've posted it about 20 times in this topic alone and in all that time I just didn't get it. You see, what he means is that even if a clock isn't working, or has stopped, then at some point every twelve hours it will be in the right place. Think about it. So, simply multiply that by two (because there are 24 hours in one day, right?) and that's why he made that stunningly hilarious piece of observation comedy. All his own work apparently. Or maybe it was that one of JA's. Yeah, it'll be what he was ordered to joke!

Bernie.

He's quite the "broken record" isn't he? And his mind? Well, golly, his mind might be compared to a over-wound Coo-coo Clock.

--Tommy

Hey Tommy I like the fact that they admonish us for never reading the book when they've dumped the entire text of H&L five times on this topic alone.

Every time I do go to one of Gaal's links one of three things happen, 1. It isn't there. 2. It is completely irrelevant or 3. It says something completely different to what he had stated. And presumably he has read it. Whereas Dawn Meredith once did a presentation for COPA on H&L and she hadn't!

Don't they think we've been subjected to enough exposure to what they are trying to prove? What is the further devastating proof not revealed by them on this forum that still remains to be learned about in the book?

Nothing. It's just a cheap way of wriggling out of questions they can't answer. Not only are these the types of people oily and sneaky enough to sell Big Ben, they are also gullible enough to buy it. That is an explosive combination.

[Steven Gaal]

[...] snipped by T. Graves

Notice this "second-hand" report comes from the same T-1 as the next report. Standing alone it's only so-so...

[ David Josephs speaking. Emphasis added by T. Graves ]

[...]

Why would Ruby be renting Marina's husband an apartment in Dallas in Sept... Ruby was in #207 at 223 Ewing while the Professor was in 206. In #208 for a time were two strippers followed up by two Dallas Police officers Sexaur and Streback. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10405#relPageId=639&tab=page [-- David Josephs]

[...]

(End of Josephs' post)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Greg's reply:

I'm going to ignore your "you're wrong because I say so" blather and cut to the heart of where you go wrong.

Firstly, the T1 in the first document is not the same person with that designation in the second document. Those designations are repeated around the country. Do you really believe TI was simultaneously in Houston, Dallas, NO and NYC among other places? Talk about doppelgangers.

Secondly, the T1 in the first document is simply mistaken. It was Senator who lived next door to Jack before moving in with him.

Thirdly. I know who T1 was in that second T1 document and will be attempting to get him to go on the record in my next book. It was not Oswald at those parties. it was Crafard.

That last document is years old 3rd or 4th hand hearsay, the content of which is literally unbelievable. In ANY scenario.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

Excellent stuff, Greg.

Thanks,

--Tommy

Many BELOW WORKED FOR RUBY AND THEY WOULD KNOW DIFFERENCE CRAFARD AND OSWALD. ,gaal

=

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html >> Link info below

"

In the summer of 1963 Dorothy Marcum was dating Ruby and her aunt worked for Ruby. Dorothy told the FBI that LEE Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July and the two men definitely knew each other.

Ruby was interviewing Francis Irene Hise for a job as a waitress when a young man entered the Carousel Club and Ruby said "Hi, Ozzie" to the young man. After she was hired Miss Hise served drinks to "Ozzie," whom she recognized after the assassination as LHO.

Another employee, Clyde Malcolm Limbough, worked for Ruby three years and saw Oswald in Ruby's office on several occasions.

Helen Kay Smith ("Pixie Lynn"), who worked at the Carousel, told the Dallas Police that she saw Ruby and Oswald together on several occasions.

Other employees of Ruby who saw Oswald in the Carousel Club were William Crowe, Wally Weston, Dixie Lynn, and Kathy Kay.

Robert Roy was Ruby's auto mechanic and said that Oswald used to drop off Ruby's car for repairs. Roy then drove Oswald back to Ruby's "burlesque house."

Ruby parked his car at Gibbs Auto Service and occasionally allowed friends and associates to borrow his car. Leon Woods was the manager of Gibbs and kept a "check-in and check-out" book that listed the names of people who took Ruby's car from the garage. Mr. Woods gave the book to the FBI following the assassination of President Kennedy, which the FBI later denied.

During the last week of July (1963) Western Union employee Marshall Hicks delivered several telegrams addressed to "LEE Harvey Oswald" at the Rotary Apartments, 1501-1503 W. 7th St. in Dallas (while HARVEY and Marina were living in New Orleans). The FBI made no attempt to locate copies of these telegrams.

DPD Detective H.M. Hart, of the Criminal Intelligence Division, received information from a Dallas Police confidential informant who knew Ruby. The informant said that in September (1963) Ruby rented an apartment at 223 S. Ewing for LEE Oswald.

NOTE: Journalist Dorothy Kilgallen wrote in the New York Journal American (June 6, 1964): "It is known that 10 persons have signed sworn depositions to the Warren Commission that they knew Oswald and Ruby to have been acquainted." "

Edited August 28, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Greg Parker]

Many BELOW WORKED FOR RUBY AND THEY WOULD KNOW DIFFERENCE CRAFARD AND OSWALD. ,gaal

=

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html>> Link info below

"

In the summer of 1963 Dorothy Marcum was dating Ruby and her aunt worked for Ruby. Dorothy told the FBI that LEE Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July and the two men definitely knew each other.

Gaal, this is just getting depressing.

Dorothy Marcum was NOT dating Ruby. She said so herself. Why the reliance on hearsay?

Her aunt however did work for Ruby. Her name was Billie Irene Hadley

Billy's husband worked for Ruby at the Vegas Club. His name was HARVEY LEE HADLEY!!!! This is the person who Dorothy was claiming worked for Ruby.

And another one bites the dust...

I'm not going through your list, though. Like I said -- too depressing because I know it will be shooting fish in a barrel.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Greg Parker]

Many BELOW WORKED FOR RUBY AND THEY WOULD KNOW DIFFERENCE CRAFARD AND OSWALD. ,gaal

=

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html>> Link info below

"

In the summer of 1963 Dorothy Marcum was dating Ruby and her aunt worked for Ruby. Dorothy told the FBI that LEE Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July and the two men definitely knew each other.

Gaal, this is just getting depressing.

Dorothy Marcum was NOT dating Ruby. She said so herself. Why the reliance on hearsay?

Her aunt however did work for Ruby. Her name was Billie Irene Hadley

Billy's husband worked for Ruby at the Vegas Club. His name was HARVEY LEE HADLEY!!!! This is the person who Dorothy was claiming worked for Ruby.

And another one bites the dust...

I'm not going through your list, though. Like I said -- too depressing because I know it will be shooting fish in a barrel.

Actually I just realized! You're NOT relying on hearsay (which is all it ever was) You, Hargroves and/or Armstrong have put that hearsay into Dorothy's mouth! The sheer dishonesty is breathtaking. It is the second example I've found in the last few days where one of you has put hearsay into the mouth of the alleged witness.

You all should be tarred and feathered and run out of Tombstone!

[Thomas Graves]

Many BELOW WORKED FOR RUBY AND THEY WOULD KNOW DIFFERENCE CRAFARD AND OSWALD. ,gaal

=

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html>> Link info below

"

In the summer of 1963 Dorothy Marcum was dating Ruby and her aunt worked for Ruby. Dorothy told the FBI that LEE Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July and the two men definitely knew each other.

Gaal, this is just getting depressing.

Dorothy Marcum was NOT dating Ruby. She said so herself. Why the reliance on hearsay?

Her aunt however did work for Ruby. Her name was Billie Irene Hadley

Billy's husband worked for Ruby at the Vegas Club. His name was HARVEY LEE HADLEY!!!! This is the person who Dorothy was claiming worked for Ruby.

And another one bites the dust...

I'm not going through your list, though. Like I said -- too depressing because I know it will be shooting fish in a barrel.

No, no, no, Greg, you don't understand. Harvey and Lee both worked for Ruby. Sometimes they even looked so much alike that people at the Vegas Club thought they were seeing doppel.

--Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

Many BELOW WORKED FOR RUBY AND THEY WOULD KNOW DIFFERENCE CRAFARD AND OSWALD. ,gaal

=

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html>> Link info below

"

In the summer of 1963 Dorothy Marcum was dating Ruby and her aunt worked for Ruby. Dorothy told the FBI that LEE Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July and the two men definitely knew each other.

Gaal, this is just getting depressing.

Dorothy Marcum was NOT dating Ruby. She said so herself. Why the reliance on hearsay?

Her aunt however did work for Ruby. Her name was Billie Irene Hadley

Billy's husband worked for Ruby at the Vegas Club. His name was HARVEY LEE HADLEY!!!! This is the person who Dorothy was claiming worked for Ruby.

And another one bites the dust...

I'm not going through your list, though. Like I said -- too depressing because I know it will be shooting fish in a barrel.

Actually I just realized! You're NOT relying on hearsay (which is all it ever was) You, Hargroves and/or Armstrong have put that hearsay into Dorothy's mouth! The sheer dishonesty is breathtaking. It is the second example I've found in the last few days where one of you has put hearsay into the mouth of the alleged witness.

You all should be tarred and feathered and run out of Tombstone!

Greg,

You're right. Their audacity and desperation is truly breathtaking. The stench, that is. It takes my breath away.

Unbelievable.

--Tommy

Edited August 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Bernie Laverick]

Amazing how those who have never read the book and feel it it so far beneath them to even LOOK in that direction can tell the rest of us its meaning, position, intent and anything else you need to know except for a well supported rebuttal beyond HAVE FAITH and BELIEVE...

[...]

Joseph,

You say we (Greg, Bernie, and I) encourage ourselves and others to "Have Faith and Believe" in our arguments against Harvey and Lee???

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

After all, you're the one with the quasi religion, the cult.

You need to learn some more appropriate insults, ones that won't come right back at you, like a boomerang.

--Tommy

Tommy,

he is simply and inappropriately trying to get rid of the labels he so richly deserves by pinning them on us. His total lack of imagination and propensity for original thought is betrayed by this gambit, as well as by the fact that he is merely a water carrier for someone else's (very muddy) water.

Total lack of imagination

Yes, that's what binds them all together isn't it? The full on inability to think for themselves and have their OWN thoughts.

Whether that's the word of some Bronze age Bedouin tribesmen writing about plagues of frogs or some slick millionaire with an even crazier story than that, they have no choice but to attach themselves to it. I ask you this, without the bible or H&L what is the point of these people? It's the only thing they've got to live for.

Chronically gullible and lacking even a slither of original thought (but evangelical with it!), they are the perfect candidates to fall for all this disinformation.

Amen

[Bernie Laverick]

In her FBI interview, Kittrell clearly indicated that the man she suspected might not be Oswald in fact identified himself as him. From the report of her interview:

From p. 8:

"She has concluded that the person she saw the last time wasn't really Oswald but perhaps someone he sent in his place in order to maintain his unemployment claim"

From p. 9:

"She said that although she suspected the fellow might no have been Oswald at the time, she wasn't sure and she didn't want to call him a L-I-A-R and create a scene without being sure."

(I spelled "L-I-A-R" with hyphens so the forum software won't censor it.)

Did you read the rambling accusatory letter she wrote to Robert Kennedy? She's bonkers and you know it!

BONKERS ..bonkers is anyone making a buck over the family pain of the Oswald family.

THAT PERSON IS IMORAL. How does that go ??? CASE CLOSED. see https://bernielaverick.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/bernie-laverick-2/ gaal

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/lee-harveys-legacy/ link info below

" Rachel was quiet for a moment. "I think Lee was this twenty-four-year-old guy, this youngster, who got himself in over his head. Lee was intelligent, but he was no genius. I don’t know who else was involved, but clearly it was too big of a deal for one twenty-four-year-old kid to do by himself. For example, right before the shooting someone asked my mother to take a picture of Lee holding a rifle, and then right after the shooting, the picture is confiscated, and everyone says, ‘Look, there’s the gun, there’s the guy who did it, case closed.’ And apparently there were police recordings of someone saying Jack Ruby was planning to kill Lee, and sure enough, the next day Jack Ruby makes his way through all the police and kills Lee live on national TV. I mean, think about it. There are just too many loose ends for it all to be dumped on my father. It was just too big of a deal. Until I was twenty-three, I didn’t even know there were alternative theories. I’ve only read a couple of books about it. I’m sorry for my father’s pain, but basically I just want it to be over, one way or another, especially by the time I have kids. - " See more at: http://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/lee-harveys-legacy/#sthash.XXMSW8xV.dpuf

Ah, I get it, it's because I made a joke about David trying to push buttons with his constant references to my family. I said he'd got the wrong button and that he should taunt me about my criminal convictions instead. It will have been obvious to everyone else that I have no criminal convictions, it was a joke. Duh!!

But that's where little tin foil bible boy thought he'd do some Google research and find the dirt. Yet another example of a paranoid CT looking for intrigue and duplicity around every corner

But all he could find was that I was trying to write a musical about the life of Marina Oswald. He thinks that's "immoral".

The American Taliban are gaining strength!

[Bernie Laverick]

Journalist writes play outlining Chicago Outfit’s involvement in JFK’s assassination
August 24, 2015
Morning Shift
WBEZ 91.5

http://www.wbez.org/...involvement-jfk

Go on Gaal, write them a letter and tell them how immoral they are!

[Steven Gaal]

Many BELOW WORKED FOR RUBY AND THEY WOULD KNOW DIFFERENCE CRAFARD AND OSWALD. ,gaal

=

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html>> Link info below

"

In the summer of 1963 Dorothy Marcum was dating Ruby and her aunt worked for Ruby. Dorothy told the FBI that LEE Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July and the two men definitely knew each other.

Gaal, this is just getting depressing.

Dorothy Marcum was NOT dating Ruby. She said so herself. Why the reliance on hearsay?

Her aunt however did work for Ruby. Her name was Billie Irene Hadley

Billy's husband worked for Ruby at the Vegas Club. His name was HARVEY LEE HADLEY!!!! This is the person who Dorothy was claiming worked for Ruby.

And another one bites the dust...

I'm not going through your list, though. Like I said -- too depressing because I know it will be shooting fish in a barrel.

Actually I just realized! You're NOT relying on hearsay (which is all it ever was) You, Hargroves and/or Armstrong have put that hearsay into Dorothy's mouth! The sheer dishonesty is breathtaking. It is the second example I've found in the last few days where one of you has put hearsay into the mouth of the alleged witness.

You all should be tarred and feathered and run out of Tombstone!

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html>> Link info below

"Ruby was interviewing Francis Irene Hise for a job as a waitress when a young man entered the Carousel Club and Ruby said "Hi, Ozzie" to the young man. After she was hired Miss Hise served drinks to "Ozzie," whom she recognized after the assassination as LHO."

================================

HELLO CRAFEE (a possible playful Ruby speech) WHY NOT Hi ,CRAFEE ??? . ,gaal

Edited August 28, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Bernie Laverick]

Many BELOW WORKED FOR RUBY AND THEY WOULD KNOW DIFFERENCE CRAFARD AND OSWALD. ,gaal

=

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html>> Link info below

"

In the summer of 1963 Dorothy Marcum was dating Ruby and her aunt worked for Ruby. Dorothy told the FBI that LEE Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July and the two men definitely knew each other.

Gaal, this is just getting depressing.

Dorothy Marcum was NOT dating Ruby. She said so herself. Why the reliance on hearsay?

Her aunt however did work for Ruby. Her name was Billie Irene Hadley

Billy's husband worked for Ruby at the Vegas Club. His name was HARVEY LEE HADLEY!!!! This is the person who Dorothy was claiming worked for Ruby.

And another one bites the dust...

I'm not going through your list, though. Like I said -- too depressing because I know it will be shooting fish in a barrel.

Actually I just realized! You're NOT relying on hearsay (which is all it ever was) You, Hargroves and/or Armstrong have put that hearsay into Dorothy's mouth! The sheer dishonesty is breathtaking. It is the second example I've found in the last few days where one of you has put hearsay into the mouth of the alleged witness.

You all should be tarred and feathered and run out of Tombstone!

John Armstrong

http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html>> Link info below

"Ruby was interviewing Francis Irene Hise for a job as a waitress when a young man entered the Carousel Club and Ruby said "Hi, Ozzie" to the young man. After she was hired Miss Hise served drinks to "Ozzie," whom she recognized after the assassination as LHO."

================================

HELLO CRAFEE (a possible playful Ruby speech) WHY NOT Hi ,CRAFEE ??? . ,gaal

Here we go again see? She recognised him ('Lee') as the man who was shot by Ruby ('Harvey'). Must have looked very similar don't you think?

And was Miss Hise in on the whole H&L plot? Or was she just needlessly exposed to it so she could spill the beans at a later date?

Like both meeting Kitrell (who said they looked "very very similar") around the same time as each other. Why would they do that?

Like the Bolton Ford 'incident', we have an Oswald look-alikey buying trucks under his own name while the person he is clandestinely impersonating is in Russia.

Who is planning this H&L programme? Cheech and Chong?

And was it an advantage or a disadvantage that the two boys grew up to look "very very similar" (your witness!) by the time the defection plan could be put into operation?

In other words...Would Harvey and Lee have worked had they looked completely different?

If your answer is no...You've lost!