Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Robin Unger]

So if Calvary runs from the concrete island to the TSBD doorway, following Baker.

and on the way passes Lovelady and Shelley.

That leaves us with who on the steps ? Prayer man, Frazier, Molina, Williams ?

Mr. BALL. Did you go out on the street to see the motorcade?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes. I was standing on the front steps.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. MOLINA. Right next left of me was Mr. Williams and close to there was Mrs. Sanders.
Mr. BALL. Pauline Sanders.
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Roy Truly?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes; he was standing with Mr. Campbell; they were going out to lunch.
Mr. BALL. They were in front of you were they?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you see Mr. Truly go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I was right in the entrance.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a police officer with him?
Mr. MOLINA. I didn't see a police officer. I don't recall seeing a police officer but I did see him go inside.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a white-helmeted police officer any time there in the entrance?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, of course, there might have been one after they secured the building, you know.
Mr. BALL. No, I mean when Truly went in; did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I saw him go in.
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. BALL. You actually saw Truly go
Mr. MOLINA. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. MOLINA. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
Mr. BALL. Had somebody come up and said the President was shot before
you saw Truly go in?
Mr. MOLINA. No.
Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.
Mr. BALL. What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that exte

Edited September 10, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Richard Hocking]

Deleted. Robin posted Molina's testimony on previous page.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[Richard Hocking]

So if Calvary runs from the concrete island to the TSBD doorway, following Baker.

and on the way passes Lovelady and Shelley.

That leaves us with who on the steps ? Prayer man, Frazier, Molina, Williams ?

...

Robin,

Williams may or may not still have been there. In one of his later testimonies, he claimed he left the steps immediately after the last shot and went to the back stairs.

[Richard Hocking]

Any clues who this woman in the black dress is, seen running behind baker.

She looks to be running FAST from the concrete island towards the TSBD entrance. ( one of the TSBD girls ? )

she would have to run past prayer man to enter the building.

Credit: Duncan for this GIF

Robin,

I thought I once saw a picture that included Hicks, Calvary, Reed, Westbrook, and Dishong standing by the Stemmons Freeway sign.

If we can locate that, it might show what those women were wearing ...

Edit: Zapruder frame 157 shows the backs of 5 women near the Stemmons Freeway sign.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[Sean Murphy]

From Will Fritz's personal handwritten copy of FBI Special Agent James W. Bookhout's contemporaneous interrogation notes:

Did Oswald say: I don't own a rifle saw?

Of course not.

There is a slight elevation in the position of the word 'saw' with respect to the previous word--

--indicative of the beginning of a new thought:

Oswald said:

• I don't own a rifle.
• However I did see one in the building...

Distinct thoughts--but run-on lines.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Sean Murphy

[Sean Murphy]

Has Bookhout or Fritz erroneously written the word 'says' twice?

Of course not.

There is a slight elevation in the position of the second instance of the word 'says' with respect to the previous word--

--indicative of the beginning of a new thought:

Oswald:

• I am a member of ACLU
• Mrs. Pane is too

Distinct thoughts--but run-on lines.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Sean Murphy

[Sean Murphy]

Did Oswald say: I bought a coke on the second floor when...?

No.

There is a slight elevation in the position of the word 'when' with respect to the previous word--

----indicative of the beginning of a new thought:

Distinct thoughts--but run-on lines:

• Claims 2nd Floor coke
  
• When off[icer] came in to 1st fl[oor] [was having] lunch out with with Bill Shelley [and others] in front
  

Oswald is making special mention of Shelley simply because he was the most senior TSBD man standing on the steps.

Shelley however probably never even noticed that Oswald was there.

Fritz, as we have already seen, let this very big moggy out of the bag during his WC testimony:

Mr. FRITZ. Well he told me that he was eating lunch with some of the employees when this happened, and that he saw all the excitement...

We know now that Lee was telling the truth...

Edited September 10, 2013 by Sean Murphy

[Sean Murphy]

Distinct thoughts--but run-on lines:

• Claims 2nd Floor coke
• When off[icer] came in to 1st fl[oor] [was having] lunch out with with Bill Shelley [and others] in front

In their joint interrogation report, written while Oswald was still alive, Bookhout and Hosty mentioned Oswald's non-toxic trip upstairs for the coke but completely fudged the issue of his claimed whereabouts at the time of the shooting and the officer's dash up the front steps and into the first floor:

Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building.

As this report was being put together by the two agents, Bookhout was looking at his notes which contained (we now know, thanks to Fritz's copy) explicit mention of an officer coming in. Yet that massively important detail is not even mentioned in the account of the lunchroom visit. Why? Because the officer coming in had nothing to do with the lunchroom visit. It had however everything to do with Oswald's alibi. And there was simply no way any of that was ever going into an official interrogation report.

James Hosty in the months and years ahead would never offer any corroboration for Bookhout’s solo report claim that Oswald talked about such an incident in the lunchroom. It is not in Hosty’s own contemporaneous interrogation notes. It is not in his Warren Commission testimony. It is not in his 1996 book Assignment: Oswald.

**

After Oswald's death, and without input or corroboration from Hosty, Bookhout took this section of his notes--

--and gave it a preposterous gloss that had the double merit of posthumously 'confirming' the lunchroom incident Roy Truly was telling people about and making Oswald sound like a very bad xxxx:

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly [...]

Edited September 10, 2013 by Sean Murphy

[Robert Prudhomme]

Distinct thoughts--but run-on lines:

• Claims 2nd Floor coke
• When off[icer] came in to 1st fl[oor] [was having] lunch out with with Bill Shelley [and others] in front

In their joint interrogation report, written while Oswald was still alive, Bookhout and Hosty mentioned Oswald's non-toxic trip upstairs for the coke but completely fudged the issue of his claimed whereabouts at the time of the shooting and the officer's dash up the front steps and into the first floor:

Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building.

As this report was being put together by the two agents, Bookhout was looking at his notes which contained (we now know, thanks to Fritz's copy) explicit mention of an officer coming in. Yet that massively important detail is not even mentioned in the account of the lunchroom visit. Why? Because the officer coming in had nothing to do with the lunchroom visit. It had however everything to do with Oswald's alibi. And there was simply no way any of that was ever going into an official interrogation report.

James Hosty in the months and years ahead would never offer any corroboration for Bookhout’s solo report claim that Oswald talked about such an incident in the lunchroom. It is not in Hosty’s own contemporaneous interrogation notes. It is not in his Warren Commission testimony. It is not in his 1996 book Assignment: Oswald.

**

After Oswald's death, and without input or corroboration from Hosty, Bookhout took this section of his notes--

--and gave it a preposterous gloss that had the double merit of posthumously 'confirming' the lunchroom incident Roy Truly was telling people about and making Oswald sound like a very bad xxxx:

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly [...]

Hello Sean

I have often wondered if there is not a special section of Hell reserved for men such as J. Edgar Hoover, who would have been the driving force behind such creative FBI evidence as Bookhout's report above.

[Robin Unger]

Any clues who this woman in the black dress is, seen running behind baker.

She looks to be running FAST from the concrete island towards the TSBD entrance. ( one of the TSBD girls ? )

she would have to run past prayer man to enter the building.

Credit: Duncan for this GIF

Robin,

I thought I once saw a picture that included Hicks, Calvary, Reed, Westbrook, and Dishong standing by the Stemmons Freeway sign.

If we can locate that, it might show what those women were wearing ...

Edit: Zapruder frame 157 shows the backs of 5 women near the Stemmons Freeway sign.

Thanks for reminding me Richard.

the woman i marked Calvary, doesn't look like the running woman in Darnell ?

click on the image to view full size

Edited September 10, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Yes Sean

This paragraph has certainly been

embellished past participle, past tense ofem·bel·lish (Verb)

Verb

1. .
2. Make (a statement or story) more interesting or entertaining by adding extra details, esp. ones that are not true.

Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly [...]

Original

Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building.

at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn ?

He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly ?

Edited September 10, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Richard Hocking]

Any clues who this woman in the black dress is, seen running behind baker.

She looks to be running FAST from the concrete island towards the TSBD entrance. ( one of the TSBD girls ? )

she would have to run past prayer man to enter the building.

Credit: Duncan for this GIF

Robin,

I thought I once saw a picture that included Hicks, Calvary, Reed, Westbrook, and Dishong standing by the Stemmons Freeway sign.

If we can locate that, it might show what those women were wearing ...

Edit: Zapruder frame 157 shows the backs of 5 women near the Stemmons Freeway sign.

Thanks for reminding me Richard.

the woman i marked Calvary, doesn't look like the running woman in Darnell ?

click on the image to view full size

The biggest thing I notice is the Calvary skirt in Cabluck looks lighter than the skirt of the woman running in the Darnell clip.

When I was earlier looking at the Croft photo of the group eastward on the Elm St curb, there is another woman who is wearing clothing similar to the runner in Darnell.

[Robin Unger]

quote:

The biggest thing I notice is the Calvary skirt in Cabluck looks lighter than the skirt of the woman running in the Darnell clip.

When I was earlier looking at the Croft photo of the group eastward on the Elm St curb, there is another woman who is wearing clothing similar to the runner in Darnell.

Yes, i see the running woman in Darnell wearing a light top, ( possibly a cardigan ) and dark dress.

I see the woman run from the concrete island area, not the STEMMONS sign

Edited September 10, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Richard Hocking]

quote:

The biggest thing I notice is the Calvary skirt in Cabluck looks lighter than the skirt of the woman running in the Darnell clip.

When I was earlier looking at the Croft photo of the group eastward on the Elm St curb, there is another woman who is wearing clothing similar to the runner in Darnell.

Yes, i see the running woman in Darnell wearing a light top, ( possibly a cardigan ) and dark dress.

I see the woman run from the concrete island area, not the STEMMONS sign

Where I first pick her up it looks like the Elm St extension, not far from the Oak tree. Perhaps just crossing over from the island.

It took Baker roughly 10-15 seconds to gun up Houston and park his cycle in front of the TSBD ... ? So the running woman had about that much time to get to her position in the Darnell clip. Do you know how soon after the shots the Cabluck photo was taken?

[Robin Unger]

Cabluck shows a light dress and dark top, we are looking for a dark dress and light top. ?