Harvey and Lee

[David Lifton]

Around 1990, I met someone who was a good friend of Eddie Voebel,...// Lifton

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How did you find out about Morton ? What/were did he work ??

NARA online just didnt find him ??

THANKS sg

Hi Steve,

You ask how I met this person (i.e., this witness I am calling Vince Morton). I met him through a fluke. After Best Evidence was published (January, 1981), I would from time to time get phone calls and/or letters from people who thought they had information. In this case, someone communicated with me and I took down the information he provided in a notebook. I had no great urgency for me and it remained in a notebook for one or two years. At the time, I was deeply involved in working on the Best Evidence Research Video and other matters. I first contacted him by telephone in September, 1990, and we had a pleasant talk. He was in the insurance business, and certainly not seeking any publicity. I listened to what he had to say, questioned him thoroughly, made notes, and life moved on. Some years later, in connection with making a trip from New York (where my late mother lived) to Los Angeles, I routed myself through New Orleans, and spent time there, visiting Oswald's old address on French Street, etc. At that time, I owned my own video camera (the technology then was "hi 8") and contacted the witness. We arranged to meet and go through everything again--on audio, and then do a serious filmed interview.

It was some years after that--specifically, in July, 2002--in writing about Lee's youth, that I came across the anomaly in the Warren Report concerning when Lee and his mother moved to Exchange Place. That's when I was re-reading the Pic Exhibits and discovered the postmark on the letter that Marguerite Oswald wrote John Pic on October 14, 1954. That postmark was consistent with what the witness was telling me about when he knew Oswald, and that's also when I discovered that the sentence in the Warren Report that Lee and his mother moved to Exchange Place in 1955 was simply wrong.

You raise the question of a NARA "on line" search. I do not believe he can be located that way because of a mis-spelling of his name. Anyway, he passed in 2002 (at age 61). I didn't learn of his death until quite a few years later.

DSL

3/17/14; 2:10 AM

Los Angeles, California

Edited March 17, 2014 by David Lifton

[Thomas Graves]

Around 1990, I met someone who was a good friend of Eddie Voebel, and--consequently--also got to know Lee Oswald (in the same way that if I am "best friends" with Joe Smith, then I will likely get to become acquainted with some of Joe Smith's friends).

This person who was "best friends" with Voebel--call him "Vince Morton"--knew Lee Oswald (because he was "best friends" with Voebel) for about a year immediately after LHO moved to 126 Exchange Place in the fall of 1954.

So Vince Morton knew Oswald for both terms of that school year--i.e., fall of 1954, Spring of 1955. He was also a member of the CAP and his membership there overlapped with Oswald and Voebel.

"Vince Morton" is a fictitious name to protect him..?. his confiding in you remains very suspicious... I have the complete list of those who attended BJHS in 53-54 and 54-55...

Voebel does mention a name, but I will not post it as there appears to be some concern over it....

Not possible you got snowed David...?

What do you suppose DeBrueys was doing interviewing all of Oswald's classmates from 1953-54 and 1954-55 yet only asked about the 54-55 year...

and was able to write a report by Dec 2.... they gonna break the case wide open with these all important interviews after he's already dead?

As far as I know (and in my very strong opinion)

well understood David...

if you took a moment and read the FBI interviews of Oswald's classmates you'd see that not a single one is asked about 53-54, but only 9th grade - 54-55

While those who do recall 53-54 and are shown HARVEY's picture & don't recognize him...

In April 1955, LEE and MO move to Exchange...

HARVEY Oswald's records at Stripling JHS from Sept-Oct 1954 are given to the FBI...

that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had attended her English classes

from September, 1954 until June, 1955, And she explained

she was at a loss to explain that she had no recollection

of either the name OSWALD or identification of his facial.

characteristics, from representations of his photographs

XXXX stated that although school records indicated that she taught LEE HARVEY OSWALD, General Math during the school - -

term of 1954 that she could not recall OSWALD as a pupil in her class.

It appears you have much to learn about the subject matter here before you can offer "informed" opinions...

It's well accepted that we all have "strong" opinions.

David Josephs:

From your post:

"In April 1955, LEE and MO move to Exchange..." (by which you mean "126 Exchange Place", I presume).

But no, that statement is incorrect.

Marguerite moved to the 126 Exchange Place address in the fall of 1954, and I believe that to be true for these reasons:

(1) Morton told me he first met Lee when Lee had "just moved to Exchange Place" --and that was in the fall of 1954.

(2) Based on the testimony of Myrtle Evans--who said the Oswalds stayed at the St. Mary's address for six months--the move probably occurred in late summer or early fall of 1954.

(3) There is important "postmark evidence" establishing that Marguerite Oswald was living at 126 Exchange Place by 10/14/54. As you know, Marguerite periodically wrote letters to her eldest son, Jon Pic, who was in the U.S. Coast Guard, and stationed on Staten Island, New York. These letters were admitted into Warren Commission evidence when Pic testified, and became the "Pic Exhibits." They are published in Volume 21 of the Warren Commission's 26 Volumes. The last letter she wrote to Pic, when she was living at the St. Mary's address, is Pic Exhibit 23-A and bears the return address of 1454 St. Mary's and is postmarked June 14, 1954.

Here's the link to that exhibit (21 WCH 85):

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0055a.htm

The next letter she wrote to Pic is dated October 14, 1954, and the envelope, which clearly shows the postmark to be October 14, 1954, bears the return address of "126 Exchange Place." (See Pic Exhibit 24A on page 86 of volume 21).

Here is the link to that exhibit (24A, at 21 WCH 86):

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0055b.htm

Based on the above evidence--but especially the postmark evidence on a letter written to John Pic that was obviously written by Marguerite Oswald--I think it is evident that Marguerite was living at 126 Exchange Place by October 14, 1954.

Also please note: based on this evidence, I believe the Warren Report contains a significant error, in its narrative (apparently because the staff was unaware of the fall 1954 postmark evidence)--when it states (and I forget exactly where it does state this) that Lee Oswald (and his mother) didn't move to Exchange Place until 1955.

Just for the record: there is no way that I "got snowed" by the person I am calling Vince Morton. He was Eddie Voebel's best friend, played in music groups with him, knew his family, etc. The reason he is not in any Beauregard J.H.S. records is that he went to a private Catholic school in the area. That school was "Our Lady Star of the Sea." From there, he went to a Catholic high school.

But putting aside Vince Morton (and his recollections, as related to me in detail), I think the U.S. postmark evidence, which is on an envelope carrying a letter clearly written by Marguerite Oswald to her son John Pic, and which appears in the Warren Commission's published evidence, establishes without question where Marguerite Oswald, the mother of Lee Harvey Oswald, lived on October 14, 1954, and that address was "126 Exchange Place," in the heart of the French Quarter in New Orleans.

As I say: I spent quality time with this witness, in April, 1998, visiting the area--and the various places he and Voebel hung out (the flower shop, the nearby cemetery, etc). After Hurricane Katrina, I lost track of him, and worried that he had perished in that storm. But that was not the case. In 2012, I learned that this witness had died in 2002, at age 61.

As far as I know, I am the only person who interviewed who him at any length, and I have a good film and audio record. He is an integral part of understanding who Lee Oswald was--between the fall of 1954 and into the summer months of 1955 (when Lee was in the ninth grade at Beauregard Junior High School)--which was a red-white-and blue "all American." There was no talk of communism, Marxism, or anything of the sort. And that, I believe, is one of the key values of this witness: he provides a first person account of what Lee Oswald was really like during a particularly important slice of time--from around October, 1954, and for the ensuing 10 months (approx). Of course, none of this should really surprise a close student of this case, because Lee Oswald joined the Civil Air Patrol in July, 1955, and was at that time--as his brother Robert testified--a perfectly normal and very patriotic young man.

DSL

3/17/14; 2:40 AM PDT

Los Angeles, California

Excellent post, David Lifton.

The postmarks and return addresses on Marguerite's envelopes prove that the Warren Report was wrong about where she and Lee Harvey Oswald were living during the period of time from June to October, 1954, a period of time so critical to the Harvey and Lee "theory."

Thank you,

--Tommy

Edited July 27, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Around 1990, I met someone who was a good friend of Eddie Voebel, and--consequently--also got to know Lee Oswald (in the same way that if I am "best friends" with Joe Smith, then I will likely get to become acquainted with some of Joe Smith's friends).

This person who was "best friends" with Voebel--call him "Vince Morton"--knew Lee Oswald (because he was "best friends" with Voebel) for about a year immediately after LHO moved to 126 Exchange Place in the fall of 1954.

So Vince Morton knew Oswald for both terms of that school year--i.e., fall of 1954, Spring of 1955. He was also a member of the CAP and his membership there overlapped with Oswald and Voebel.

"Vince Morton" is a fictitious name to protect him..?. his confiding in you remains very suspicious... I have the complete list of those who attended BJHS in 53-54 and 54-55...

Voebel does mention a name, but I will not post it as there appears to be some concern over it....

Not possible you got snowed David...?

What do you suppose DeBrueys was doing interviewing all of Oswald's classmates from 1953-54 and 1954-55 yet only asked about the 54-55 year...

and was able to write a report by Dec 2.... they gonna break the case wide open with these all important interviews after he's already dead?

As far as I know (and in my very strong opinion)

well understood David...

if you took a moment and read the FBI interviews of Oswald's classmates you'd see that not a single one is asked about 53-54, but only 9th grade - 54-55

While those who do recall 53-54 and are shown HARVEY's picture & don't recognize him...

In April 1955, LEE and MO move to Exchange...

HARVEY Oswald's records at Stripling JHS from Sept-Oct 1954 are given to the FBI...

that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had attended her English classes

from September, 1954 until June, 1955, And she explained

she was at a loss to explain that she had no recollection

of either the name OSWALD or identification of his facial.

characteristics, from representations of his photographs

XXXX stated that although school records indicated that she taught LEE HARVEY OSWALD, General Math during the school - -

term of 1954 that she could not recall OSWALD as a pupil in her class.

It appears you have much to learn about the subject matter here before you can offer "informed" opinions...

It's well accepted that we all have "strong" opinions.

David Josephs:

From your post:

"In April 1955, LEE and MO move to Exchange..." (by which you mean "126 Exchange Place", I presume).

But no, that statement is incorrect.

Marguerite moved to the 126 Exchange Place address in the fall of 1954, and I believe that to be true for these reasons:

(1) Morton told me he first met Lee when Lee had "just moved to Exchange Place" --and that was in the fall of 1954.

(2) Based on the testimony of Myrtle Evans--who said the Oswalds stayed at the St. Mary's address for six months--the move probably occurred in late summer or early fall of 1954.

(3) There is important "postmark evidence" establishing that Marguerite Oswald was living at 126 Exchange Place by 10/14/54. As you know, Marguerite periodically wrote letters to her eldest son, Jon Pic, who was in the U.S. Coast Guard, and stationed on Staten Island, New York. These letters were admitted into Warren Commission evidence when Pic testified, and became the "Pic Exhibits." They are published in Volume 21 of the Warren Commission's 26 Volumes. The last letter she wrote to Pic, when she was living at the St. Mary's address, is Pic Exhibit 23-A and bears the return address of 1454 St. Mary's and is postmarked June 14, 1954.

Here's the link to that exhibit (21 WCH 85):

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0055a.htm

The next letter she wrote to Pic is dated October 14, 1954, and the envelope, which clearly shows the postmark to be October 14, 1954, bears the return address of "126 Exchange Place." (See Pic Exhibit 24A on page 86 of volume 21).

Here is the link to that exhibit (24A, at 21 WCH 86):

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0055b.htm

Based on the above evidence--but especially the postmark evidence on a letter written to John Pic that was obviously written by Marguerite Oswald--I think it is evident that Marguerite was living at 126 Exchange Place by October 14, 1954.

Also please note: based on this evidence, I believe the Warren Report contains a significant error, in its narrative (apparently because the staff was unaware of the fall 1954 postmark evidence)--when it states (and I forget exactly where it does state this) that Lee Oswald (and his mother) didn't move to Exchange Place until 1955.

Just for the record: there is no way that I "got snowed" by the person I am calling Vince Morton. He was Eddie Voebel's best friend, played in music groups with him, knew his family, etc. The reason he is not in any Beauregard J.H.S. records is that he went to a private Catholic school in the area. That school was "Our Lady Star of the Sea." From there, he went to a Catholic high school.

But putting aside Vince Morton (and his recollections, as related to me in detail), I think the U.S. postmark evidence, which is on an envelope carrying a letter clearly written by Marguerite Oswald to her son John Pic, and which appears in the Warren Commission's published evidence, establishes without question where Marguerite Oswald, the mother of Lee Harvey Oswald, lived on October 14, 1954, and that address was "126 Exchange Place," in the heart of the French Quarter in New Orleans.

As I say: I spent quality time with this witness, in April, 1998, visiting the area--and the various places he and Voebel hung out (the flower shop, the nearby cemetery, etc). After Hurricane Katrina, I lost track of him, and worried that he had perished in that storm. But that was not the case. In 2012, I learned that this witness had died in 2002, at age 61.

As far as I know, I am the only person who interviewed who him at any length, and I have a good film and audio record. He is an integral part of understanding who Lee Oswald was--between the fall of 1954 and into the summer months of 1955 (when Lee was in the ninth grade at Beauregard Junior High School)--which was a red-white-and blue "all American." There was no talk of communism, Marxism, or anything of the sort. And that, I believe, is one of the key values of this witness: he provides a first person account of what Lee Oswald was really like during a particularly important slice of time--from around October, 1954, and for the ensuing 10 months (approx). Of course, none of this should really surprise a close student of this case, because Lee Oswald joined the Civil Air Patrol in July, 1955, and was at that time--as his brother Robert testified--a perfectly normal and very patriotic young man.

DSL

3/17/14; 2:40 AM PDT

Los Angeles, California

Excellent post, David Lifton.

The postmarks and return addresses on Marguerite's envelopes prove that the Warren Report was wrong about where she and Lee Harvey Oswald were living during the period of time which included June 14 and October 14, 1954, a period of time so critical to the Harvey and Lee "theory."

Thank you,

--Tommy

It's interesting that David Josephs ("last active Jul 02, 2014") decided to stop posting on this thread after this excellent post by David Lifton on March 17 ...

--Tommy

Edited July 28, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Dawn Meredith]

Perhaps DJ became as tired as I over the bs in this thread. Re all the talk about how much they looked alike, I don't think they look alike enough even to be brothers. And the two "mothers" could not look any different if they were from different planets.

The name calling and insults on this thread make me sad for the research community. And proud of DPF as we are more discerning on who we allow.

Glad to see EF is still here, but....the level of discourse is quite low. I rarely even come here in fact.

I have strong opinions about some of the posters here but I try to avoid confrontation. It's a time suck, but that is WHY they do it.

[Thomas Graves]

Perhaps DJ became as tired as I over the bs in this thread. Re all the talk about how much they looked alike, I don't think they look alike enough even to be brothers. And the two "mothers" could not look any different if they were from different planets.

The name calling and insults on this thread make me sad for the research community. And proud of DPF as we are more discerning on who we allow.

Glad to see EF is still here, but....the level of discourse is quite low. I rarely even come here in fact.

I have strong opinions about some of the posters here but I try to avoid confrontation. It's a time suck, but that is WHY they do it.

Hi Dawn,

I respectfully disagree.

Question: If Lee Harvey Oswald and this alleged impostor didn't, as you say, "look alike enough even to be brothers", then how was the alleged impostor able to fool so many people into believing that he and the historical Lee Harvey Oswald, the man gunned down by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63, were the same person?

Because the imposter told those people that his name was "Lee Harvey Oswald"?

Because they were about the same height?

Because they sometimes lived in the same city?

Or is it possible that there was no "Harvey" and "Lee" after all, just a bunch of coincidences and misinterpreted "evidence"?

--Tommy

Edited August 5, 2014 by Thomas Graves