Was Oswald an Intelligence Agent?

[Greg Parker]

When the WC didn't like an answer.. They just say the witness was wrong, misremembered or not believeable... Like Osborne/Bowen on the bus who tells us that MacFarland and the Aussies were wrong... that there were no other english speaking people on the bus... and then when you find out whcih bus they were on... we find out Bowen was right... they were no even on the same bus as the FBI claims Oswald took... but they were able to confirm his being on the bus... amazing, right?

Can you possilbly ignore any more of my post in your response - too much heavy lifting to address everything that was wrong with your original statements?

Parker... you don't get to pick and choose which of Marina's lies are closer to the truth... she's a xxxx. Ruth was a xxxx. both in efforts to help incriminate Oswald... So sorry that remains lost on you.

Most of what you write in incomprehensible. You're like a hyperactive kangaroo jumping all over the place. I am not going to attempt to address anything that I can't make sense of. Don't like it? do something about your posting style.

I happen to agree with you about Osborne. Something you would know if you had read the work I linked to. Which btw, was fully cited.

As for what I get to choose... you're kidding right? You are the rest of the herd routinely pick and choose which FBI reports are okay and which aren't and which witnesses are believable and which aren't.

Not that this will sink in with you, but for those others reading, I use the same criteria for her as I do for other known liars. The earliest statements are likely to be the most reliable. Later statements are likely to be trustworthy only if they are "innocent" statements that seemingly have no impact on anything. e.g. Lee liked coffee for breakfast. (note: I'm not saying she actually ever said that - it's just an example of the type of remark I'm talking about)

I have used this as method here.

And it's not about the photos - it's about your assumption that "about a month ago" gives you license to assume she was talking about the month before that...

and then to CONCLUDE from all these assumptions that Oswald was in Houston...

When you offer NOTHING to get him there, no corroborating evidence to Hammett (Cause we all know that ONE FBI witness saying the right thing is much better that 12 saying the opposite)

Hammet never saw Oswald. He sold a ticket to someone who was not Oswald. This is what I mean. You are doing nothing here but blathering.

What gives me license to put the employment agents evidence back a month more is the rest of her evidence. Not rocket science. She describes Oswald's situation accurately as it was in late September. Other details she gave included information that was not publicly known at that time such as that Oswald claimed he had a friend in Houston. This was information she gave to one of her clients, but was forced to retract by the FBI. But do you seriously think the client made it up?

You probably have no clue who or what Twiford is about or what she says about the call... but no matter, If Parker doesn't say it, it must not exist... until you go look at the source.

So you have "statistical probablity" of a subjective matter... good

The testimony of Marina and Rtuh... better

and the dropping of any evidence that contradicts your conclusion... BEST!

You and the WC lawyers and commissioners seem to be on the same page... well done!

I never mentioned anything about Twiford or the phone call Oswald made to his house. So because I never didn't mention him I somehow think he doesn't exist? FYI, I have written extensively on Twiford in the past.

You're on a regular blather-fest here, aren't you, David!

I haven't dropped any evidence that contradicts my conclusions at all. If you think I have, point it out. Without smothering it in blather.

Oh wait... didn't Anna Lewis say she met Lee Oswald near 544 Camp in Feb 1962? a few times?

This while Harvey and Marina are in Russia with Marina giving birth in mid-February... Is this misremembered of simpy unimportant and unnecessary to your stated conclusions about there only being one Oswald?

There being a second Oswald is simply too much for you to comprehend... so like most bullies who don't understand something... BASH IT WITH A STICK!

This would be the same Anna Lewis who supported JVB?

Bash it with a stick? LOL. I have surgically dissected it and identified the parasitic diseases within.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Greg Parker]

On Oct 3rd someone returned 4 library books of Oswald's at the New Orleans Public Library... but Oswald was in Dallas... you gonna tell us he was really in New Orleans.. please, show us.

Did Oswald take these library books on the trip with him since if you read the evidence - the apartment on Magazine was empty - yet the books were returned... who would have returned Oswald's books I wonder?

So now we'll get another mini-rant... some opinion... some "exact text" without a source document so we have to go search to find that you ommitted just enough of the source to support your conclusions

and most of the source which proves the opposite of what you are stating... all the while throwing insults or accusations because that adds to your growing reputation and credibility...

Prove me wrong.

Re the first para:Read up on the witness statements of the neighbors and get back to me.

As for the rest...you do a good enough job of that all by yourself. You don't need my help for it.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Paul Trejo]

OK, this is thread has wandered far afield...

[Thomas Graves]

Let's suppose some intelligence organization -- CIA, ONI, Guy Bannister, whoever -- recruited Oswald to infiltrate pro-Castro Cubans. Or if you wish, anti-Castro Cubans.

The LAST thing that organization would do is have Oswald hang around with Guy Bannister.

The only thing I can figure is that possibly Bannister supported the leafletting efforts of Oswald in order to flush out some street level Castro supporters. Supporters who wouldn't connect Oswald to Bannister. This seems like a waste of time and money to me, but who knows how Bannister thought.

The idea that someone financed or otherwise encouraged Oswald's summer 1963 NOLA leafletting in order to set up Oswald as JFK's assassin is unbelievable. The idea someone tried to gain advantage from what Oswald was inclined to do, leafletting, is believable. But this idea doesn't necessarily point toward conspiracy to kill JFK.

Yet, someone observing Oswald at a distance might have perceived him as a useful person. A person who openly engaged in pro-communist activities. A person who was being watched by the CIA and FBI. A person who could be induced to move from Point A to Point B. A person who resented "authorities".

Jon,

Going from memory here but I believe that sixteen year-old amateur photographer James "Jim" Doyle (since deceased) observed Oswald's being watched closely and and being photographed by a man using an "exceedingly expensive" camera the day Oswald and Bringuier and two other Cubans were arrested for disturbing the peace, on August 9, 1963. Doyle said that the man with the camera kinda stuck out because he was wearing a grey suit on a hot New Orleans day when most of the other men wear wearing short-sleeved shirts.

Also, in the notes made by a journalist (Billings?) who "helped" Jim Garrison in his investigation there is reference to a "shepherd," apparently spotted at Oswald's leafletings, including at Oswald's brief Maison Blanche Building leafleting by, of all people, Carlos Bringuier and his young sidekick Miguel Cruz, and that the "shepherd" was wearing a coat and tie and sunglasses and was taking pictures of Oswald. Billings wrote that, according to Garrison, the "shepherd" had a 1-inch scar on his left eye brow. Billings or Garrison apparently wondered whether or not this same "shepherd" dude might have been the driver of the "tan station wagon." I assume that what they are referring to is the station wagon that Orest Pena or one of his friends saw (a couple of days after the notorious Oswald-vomiting-the-lemonade-on-the-bar incident at Pena's bar in New Orleans) in which car was riding the commie-speaking Mexican-looking dude who had accompanied Oswald into the bar a few days or nights earlier. Edit: More likely, Billings / Garrison were referring to the suspicious station wagon that Roger Craig and Richard Carr saw in Dealey Plaza right after the assassination.

http://www.jfk-online.com/billings4.html

In the Jim Doyle film you can see a tall, athletic-looking man wearing a grey suit and scratching the back of his neck while standing, with his back to the camera and right in front of it, watching Oswald who is walking past him and apparently wearing his "Viva La Fidel" sign, as reported by Doyle's younger sister, who also witnessed the event. To see the guy I'm talking about, go to 3:55 of this youtube video; you'll see him walk in from the left and "scratching" the back of his neck (probably thinking that he's cleverly pointing out Oswald for photographer John T. Martin, but it's not Martin who's filming behind him -- it's 16-year-old Jim Doyle!).

FWIW, I believe you can see the back of the same large, dark-complected man wearing the same suit in photos and / or films taken a few minutes after the assassination, standing in the crowd and watching the goings-on in front of the TSBD, but interestingly, facing in the direction of the Terminal Annex Building where Harry Holmes' fifth-floor office was situated...

--Tommy

bumped

Edited October 4, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

bumped

In the Jim Doyle film you can see a tall, athletic-looking man wearing a grey suit and scratching the back of his neck while standing, with his back to the camera and right in front of it, watching Oswald who is walking past him and apparently wearing his "Viva La Fidel" sign, as reported by Doyle's younger sister, who also witnessed the event. To see the guy I'm talking about, go to 3:58 of this youtube video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6IvEZaX_Pg]

I believe you can see the back of the same man wearing the same suit in photos and / or films taken a few minutes after the assassination, watching the goings-on in front of the TSBD.

--Tommy

Well, Tommy, I see a man in a suit scratching his neck at 3:58, but his back is to the camera.

More to my point, a man who appears to be Bill Shelley of Dallas, at 3:19 on this video, not 3:58.

It's interesting to pinpoint Bill Shelley, who testified before the Warren Commission that two days before the JFK murder he saw a .30.06 Mauser rifle at the TSBD where he worked.

It's more interesting to find him in New Orleans, watching Oswald performing his Fake FPCC charade.

One must try to find some connection between New Orleans and Dallas in all this.

The Jack Martin Home Movie may do this -- it has film footage of the bullet holes in General Walker's home in the middle, and Lee Harvey Oswald getting busted in New Orleans at the end.

The connection, then, is General Walker. Can we somehow link Bill Shelley with General Walker in Dallas?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 8, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

mangled re-edit, therefore deleted

Edited November 8, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Yeah, Bill Shelley is definitely the guy at 3:19. That's interesting.

As for the guy at 3:58, his back is to the camera. How could anybody identify him elsewhere?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Let's suppose some intelligence organization -- CIA, ONI, Guy Bannister, whoever -- recruited Oswald to infiltrate pro-Castro Cubans. Or if you wish, anti-Castro Cubans.

The LAST thing that organization would do is have Oswald hang around with Guy Bannister.

The only thing I can figure is that possibly Bannister supported the leafletting efforts of Oswald in order to flush out some street level Castro supporters. Supporters who wouldn't connect Oswald to Bannister. This seems like a waste of time and money to me, but who knows how Bannister thought.

The idea that someone financed or otherwise encouraged Oswald's summer 1963 NOLA leafletting in order to set up Oswald as JFK's assassin is unbelievable. The idea someone tried to gain advantage from what Oswald was inclined to do, leafletting, is believable. But this idea doesn't necessarily point toward conspiracy to kill JFK.

Yet, someone observing Oswald at a distance might have perceived him as a useful person. A person who openly engaged in pro-communist activities. A person who was being watched by the CIA and FBI. A person who could be induced to move from Point A to Point B. A person who resented "authorities".

Jon,

Going from memory here but I believe that sixteen year-old amateur photographer James "Jim" Doyle (since deceased) observed Oswald's being watched closely and and being photographed by a man using an "exceedingly expensive" camera the day Oswald and Bringuier and two other Cubans were arrested for disturbing the peace, on August 9, 1963. Doyle said that the man with the camera kinda stuck out because he was wearing a grey suit on a hot New Orleans day when most of the other men wear wearing short-sleeved shirts.

Also, in the notes made by a journalist (Billings?) who "helped" Jim Garrison in his investigation there is reference to a "shepherd," apparently spotted at Oswald's leafletings, including at Oswald's brief Maison Blanche Building leafleting by, of all people, Carlos Bringuier and his young sidekick Miguel Cruz, and that the "shepherd" was wearing a coat and tie and sunglasses and was taking pictures of Oswald. Billings wrote that, according to Garrison, the "shepherd" had a 1-inch scar on his left eye brow. Billings or Garrison apparently wondered whether or not this same "shepherd" dude might have been the driver of the "tan station wagon." I assume that what they are referring to is the station wagon that Orest Pena or one of his friends saw (a couple of days after the notorious Oswald-vomiting-the-lemonade-on-the-bar incident at Pena's bar in New Orleans) in which car was riding the commie-speaking Mexican-looking dude who had accompanied Oswald into the bar a few days or nights earlier. Edit: More likely, Billings / Garrison were referring to the suspicious station wagon that Roger Craig and Richard Carr saw in Dealey Plaza right after the assassination.

http://www.jfk-online.com/billings4.html

In the Jim Doyle film you can see a tall, athletic-looking man wearing a grey suit and scratching the back of his neck while standing, with his back to the camera and right in front of it, watching Oswald who is walking past him and apparently wearing his "Viva La Fidel" sign, as reported by Doyle's younger sister, who also witnessed the event. To see the guy I'm talking about, go to 3:55 of this youtube video; you'll see him walk in from the left and "scratching" the back of his neck (probably thinking that he's cleverly pointing out Oswald for photographer John T. Martin, but it's not Martin who's filming behind him -- it's 16-year-old Jim Doyle!).

FWIW, I believe you can see the back of the same large, dark-complected man wearing the same suit in a photo taken a few minutes after the assassination, standing in the crowd and watching the goings-on in front of the TSBD, but interestingly, facing in the direction of the Terminal Annex Building where Harry Holmes' fifth-floor office was situated...

--Tommy

drastically edited and expanded on 11/07/15, and bumped

bumped again, in spite of 'jacker Paul Trejo

Edited November 8, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

In the Jim Doyle film you can see a tall, athletic-looking man wearing a grey suit and scratching the back of his neck while standing, with his back to the camera and right in front of it, watching Oswald who is walking past him and apparently wearing his "Viva La Fidel" sign, as reported by Doyle's younger sister, who also witnessed the event. To see the guy I'm talking about, go to 3:55 of this youtube video; you'll see him walk in from the left and "scratching" the back of his neck (probably thinking that he's cleverly pointing out Oswald for photographer John T. Martin, but it's not Martin who's filming behind him -- it's 16-year-old Jim Doyle!).

FWIW, I believe you can see the back of the same large, dark-complected man wearing the same suit in a photo taken a few minutes after the assassination, standing in the crowd and watching the goings-on in front of the TSBD, but interestingly, facing in the direction of the Terminal Annex Building where Harry Holmes' fifth-floor office was situated...

--Tommy

Well, once again, Tommy, I see the tall, athletic-looking man wearing a grey suit and scratching the back of his neck while standing, with his back to the camera, around 3:55 to 3:58 of the Jim Doyle film.

First, the guy doesn't seem to have a dark-complexion to me, i.e. we can't see his face, but we can see his hand as he scratches the back of his neck, and his hand is WHITE.

But, are you saying that you can recognize the same man from another photographic sample -- also from the BACKSIDE?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

In the Jim Doyle film you can see a tall, athletic-looking man wearing a grey suit and scratching, scratching, scratching the back of his neck while watching Oswald walk past him as Oswald is wearing his "Viva La Fidel" sign (as reported by Doyle's younger sister, who also witnessed the event). To see the neck-scratching (actually sneaky pointing?) guy I'm talking about, go to 3:55 of this youtube video; you'll see him walk into the frame from the left behind another suited guy and continuously "scratching the back of his neck" (probably believing that he's cleverly pointing out Oswald for photographer John T. Martin -- who also filmed the incident and had "coincidentally" filmed the bullet damage to Edwin Walker's house a few days earlier! -- but surprise, surprise!, it's not Martin who's filming behind Neck Scratcher -- it's, probably unbeknownst to Neck Scratcher, 14-year-old Jim Doyle!). Here's an FBI report about how Jim Doyle managed to film the incident:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Martin%20John%20Minneapolis%20Film%20Enlargments/Item%2022.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FWIW, I believe you can see the back of the same large, dark-complected man wearing the same suit in a photo taken a few minutes after the assassination, standing in the crowd and watching the goings-on in front of the TSBD, but interestingly, facing in the direction of the Terminal Annex Building where Harry Holmes' fifth-floor office was situated...

--Tommy

Well, once again, Tommy, I see the tall, athletic-looking man wearing a grey suit and scratching the back of his neck while standing, with his back to the camera, around 3:55 to 3:58 of the Jim Doyle film.

First, the guy doesn't seem to have a dark-complexion to me, i.e. we can't see his face, but we can see his hand as he scratches the back of his neck, and his hand is WHITE.

But, are you saying that you can recognize the same man from another photographic sample -- also from the BACKSIDE?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

You must be visually impaired then, Paul.

Can't you see the dark-ish skin on the back of his neck between his collar and his hair line?

--Tommy

PS Anyone else want to weigh in on this, or am I stuck with only Paul Trejo?

The guy I'm talking about walks in from the left, scratching his neck, around 3:55 in this video:

Something I've just now noticed. If you "freeze frame" the white guy in the dark suit who walks in from the left (between 3:53 and 3:54 --ya gotta be quick) just before "Neck Scratcher" walks in from the left, you'll be able to compare the color of their respective skins (the backs of their necks, to be exact), and you'll see that "Neck Scratcher's" skin is considerably darker that the white guy's.

PS The back of "Neck Scratcher's" hand is dark. His fingers are light in color, but the side and the back of his hand are dark. Just like the back of his neck between his collar and his hairline.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Well, Tommy, I looked again and again at that footage. Ten times at least. The guy's hand looks white to me. A man with a dark-complexion would also have a dark hand.

Compare the skin-tone with the Negro who is in the opening frames of this clip.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 8, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Well, Tommy, I looked again and again at that footage. Ten times at least. The guy's hand looks white to me. A man with a dark-complexion would also have a dark hand.

Compare the skin-tone with the Negro who is in the opening frames of this clip.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Oh brother.

Yes, his fingers are light colored, but the top of his hand is dark.

It's interesting to see how you try to twist and stretch the truth to your advantage not only in your interpretation of written documents, but photographic documents, as well.

Didn't you make the effort to "freeze frame" the guy who walks in from the left at 3:53-3:54 just before "Neck Scratcher"? You know, so you can compare the skin color of the backs of their necks?

Your failure to mention that is telling.

LOL

--Tommy

Edited November 8, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Jon G. Tidd]

I'll weigh in, Tommy.

The Len Osanic episode in question contains narration by Joan Mellen. I'm struck by how sure she is that, for example, David Ferrie and Clay Shaw were Oswald's CIA handlers. Mellen is unqualifiedly sure.

Being unqualifiedly sure about anything makes one god-like. I prefer the fact that uncertainty and error exist in any activity involving human perception.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Jon G. Tidd

[Thomas Graves]

I'll weigh in, Tommy.

The Len Osanic episode in question contains narration by Joan Mellen. I'm struck by how sure she is that, for example, David Ferrie and Clay Shaw were Oswald's CIA handlers. Mellen is unqualifiedly sure.

Being unqualifiedly sure about anything makes one god-like. I prefer the fact that uncertainty and error exist in any activity involving human perception.

Jon,

Believe it or not,......

I agree.

Oh God, I can't believe I just said that.

--Tommy

[Paul Trejo]

I'll weigh in, Tommy.

The Len Osanic episode in question contains narration by Joan Mellen. I'm struck by how sure she is that, for example, David Ferrie and Clay Shaw were Oswald's CIA handlers. Mellen is unqualifiedly sure.

Being unqualifiedly sure about anything makes one god-like. I prefer the fact that uncertainty and error exist in any activity involving human perception.

Well, that's right Jon.

Joan Mellen, as the inheritor of the mantle of Jim Garrison, basically accepted everything Jim Garrison said as canon.

David Ferrie was a street-level mercenary -- and while he might have done some piece-work for the CIA in Cuba (when the CIA was hiring street thugs left and right to try to topple FIdel Castro) -- it is REACHING to try to make David Ferrie into a CIA Agent.

David Ferrie was a segregationist first and foremost -- that was why he had most in common with Guy Banister. That was the connection.

Clay Shaw was far higher on the social scale than David Ferrie -- a millionaire -- but that typically made him a CIA Informant, and not a CIA Agent.

The case Jim Garrison had against Clay Shaw was weak as a wet noodle. As Jeff Caufield said, Jim Garrison went into action only after Guy Banister (his long-time chess partner) died. Then Jim Garrison compiled a set of files against David Ferrie as a segregationist Neo-Nazi, and was ready to go to trial against David Ferrie for helping to transform LHO into a Fake FPCC Director.

Then David Ferrie met a violent and sudden death. The whole Clay Shaw trial was a second-string Hail Mary pass -- hoping somebody else would come forward. Fat chance.

At the end of Jim Garrison's miserable failure against Clay Shaw, Jim Garrison then went public with his CIA-did-it theory -- blaming the CIA for everything related to the JFK murder, the cover-up, the vanishing witnesses, and the failure of his trial against Clay Shaw.

But Jeff Caufield shows something else. After Jim Garrison died, his personal papers became available to a select few. They show -- plainly -- that his first and most solid case wasn't against the CIA, but against the Radical Right wing in New Orleans -- the KKK, WCC, JBS, NSRP, ANP and Minutemen.

Joan Mellen is still on the CIA-did-it kick, and she names all these people as CIA Agents -- who were never CIA Agents. Not just David Ferrie and Clay Shaw, but also Fred Crisman, Tom Beckham, Jack S. Martin, Frank Sturgis, Gerry Patrick Hemming and so many more -- who were merely mercenaries.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo