Was Oswald an Intelligence Agent?

[Thomas Graves]

De

Tommy - it's pics like the one you posted that make me wonder about the 'two Oswalds'.

Dear Paul,

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

-- Tommy

PS So now you're going to become a Harvey and Lee and Henry devotee?

Bear in mind that LHO was only about 20 years old when he moved to the USSR.

-- Tommy

Edited October 11, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Tommy - it's pics like the one you posted that make me wonder about the 'two Oswalds'.

Dear Paul,

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

-- Tommy

PS So now you're going to become a Harvey and Lee and Henry devotee?

Bear in mind that LHO was only about 20 years old when he moved to the USSR.

-- Tommy

The so-called Harvey & Lee theory was one of the great disappointments from an otherwise great CT analyst, Jack White.

Jack made some great observations about the BYP, and then he tried to extend that indefinitely -- and beyond his expertise.

What got Jack White started was that the USSR made photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald using a "plausible denial" technique, which consists of taking a normal photograph, and reversing the left side of the face onto the right side. A completely different photo could be made by reversing the right side of the face onto the left side.

This makes a photograph that is undeniably the person photographed, but notice that the two results (the two lefts and the two rights) look like two different people! Try it on your own photograph, and you can see the dramatic difference.

People regularly assume that the two sides of their face match -- but most of us really don't match very well -- all faces are slightly lopsided.

Anyway -- add these truly Fake photographs of LHO in with the regular photos of LHO at different ages in his life -- which are vastly different, as they are for everybody.

To see this in action, just find photographs of Judy Garland as a teenager with Judy Garland in her twenties. Different people?

Then add the regular photos of an individual from cheap cameras compared with professional cameras -- where the individual also looks vastly different. Then add photos that are posed along with surprise photos. Then add photos when one is dressed up, and photos when one needs a bath -- and Jack White tried to make the case that there were many different Oswalds -- and at least two in a CIA super-plot which began with LHO's childhood.

This disappointment came from the brilliant guy who correctly identified Roscoe White's body in the BYP.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 12, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy - it's pics like the one you posted that make me wonder about the 'two Oswalds'.

Dear Paul,

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

-- Tommy

PS So now you're going to become a Harvey and Lee and Henry devotee?

Bear in mind that LHO was only about 20 years old when he moved to the USSR.

-- Tommy

The so-called Harvey & Lee theory was one of the great disappointments from an otherwise great CT analyst, Jack White.

Jack made some great observations about the BYP, and then he tried to extend that indefinitely -- and beyond his expertise.

What got Jack White started was that the USSR made photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald using a "plausible denial" technique, which consists of taking a normal photograph, and reversing the left side of the fact onto the right side. A completely different photo could be made by reversing the right side of the face onto the left side.

This makes a photograph that is undeniably the person photographed, but notice that the two results (the two lefts and the two rights) look like two different people! Try it on your own photograph, and you can see the dramatic difference.

People regularly assume that the two sides of their face match -- but most of us really don't match very well -- all faces are slightly lopsided.

Anyway -- add these truly Fake photographs of LHO in with the regular photos of LHO at different ages in his life -- which are vastly different, as they are for everybody.

To see this in action, just find photographs of Judy Garland as a teenager with Judy Garland in her twenties. Different people?

Then add the regular photos of an individual from cheap cameras compared with professional cameras -- where the individual also looks vastly different. Then add photos that are posed along with surprise photos. Then add photos when one is dressed up, and photos when one needs a bath -- and Jack White tried to make the case that there were many different Oswalds -- and at least two in a CIA super-plot which began with LHO's childhood.

This disappointment came from the brilliant guy who correctly identified Roscoe White's body in the BYP.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Jack White was] the brilliant guy who correctly identified Roscoe White's body in the BYP. -- Paul Trejo

Dear Paul,

Other than the one photograph (which was developed and printed in May, 1959, after LHO had returned to the U.S.) of the bumpy-wristed Marine who somewhat resembled Roscoe White (except, of course, for the too-wide chin and the too-large ears), do you have any other "proof" that Lee Harvey Oswald and Roscoe White were at Atsugi at the same time?

-- Tommy

Edited October 12, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

[Jack White was] the brilliant guy who correctly identified Roscoe White's body in the BYP. -- Paul Trejo

Dear Paul,

Other than the one photograph (which was developed and printed in May, 1959, after LHO had returned to the U.S.) of the bumpy-wristed Marine who somewhat resembled Roscoe White (except, of course, for the too-wide chin and the too-large ears), do you have any other "proof" that Lee Harvey Oswald and Roscoe White were at Atsugi at the same time?

-- Tommy

Tommy,

I have already said that I am relying on the work that Jack White has done on Roscoe White. It is convincing to me. I would expect that others who have more stringent criteria for demonstration would look deeper -- because more research is clearly merited.

In terms of anecdotal evidence, we also have the claims by Roscoe White's son, Ricky White, that Roscoe White was involved in the JFK assassination.

Also, Roscoe's wife, Geneva, possessed a separate pose for the BYP.

The connections are many and various. I admit, however, that further research is needed.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

So, I maintain that LHO was never an Intelligence Agent, but he always wanted to be.

Also, Roscoe White was never an Intelligence Agent, but he also wanted to be.

Both men might have been ONI trainees at some point in their military careers, but they failed to pass the tests, IMHO.

This would account for LHO's life of poverty after he left the military. LHO was a CIA wannabe for most of his short life. He was talented -- but not talented enough.

Both men mistakenly believed that their Radical Right politics would improve their chances of getting a good-paying job in the CIA. This explains their connection to 544 Camp Street. They didn't recognize that the CIA -- even back in 1961 -- preferred college degrees to reactionary politics.

One only needs to look at the WC testimony of J. Edgar Hoover, Alan Belmont and John McCone to see the truth in this.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 18, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

Both men might have been ONI trainees at some point in their military careers, but they failed to pass the tests, IMHO.

Do you have a citation or any idea what tests they would have to take? I know nothing about how ONI recruited but I have seen, first hand, how Delta Force recruited in the 80's.

Enlighten me. Maybe there's something about Atsugi you'd like to speak about?

[Paul Trejo]

Both men might have been ONI trainees at some point in their military careers, but they failed to pass the tests, IMHO.

Do you have a citation or any idea what tests they would have to take? I know nothing about how ONI recruited but I have seen, first hand, how Delta Force recruited in the 80's.

Enlighten me. Maybe there's something about Atsugi you'd like to speak about?

Chris,

I'm piecing together a CT based on readings of various CT's over the decades. I myself was never in the military.

Yet everyday logic can be useful in most cases. For example, LHO lived in abject poverty -- while CIA Agents are typically well-paid, and possess their own homes and new cars.

The evidence I rely upon in this part of my CT is the opinion of a former CIA Agent named Victor Marchetti. According to Marchetti, LHO was part of a large ONI "dangle" operation in the USSR. As I understood Marchetti, young military men were recruited around 1960 to be fake defectors in the USSR, and then supply periodic reports to a contact, in coordination with dozens of other "dangles" who did not know each other's identity or location.

It was very odd, IMHO, for LHO to return to the USA with a Russian wife -- in fact, it was national news and a unique event in 1962. It seems to me that LHO cut short his mission in the USSR, probably because the young Marina wanted to see the USA and this was her big chance, and so she pushed LHO to move back.

If that's correct, then the ONI would have been upset with LHO leaving his post, and that could explain why LHO's Marine discharge papers were downgraded after he left the USSR.

We know from the State Department that LHO never really defected -- he never surrendered his US Passport. He never became as USSR citizen. Marina, for her part, never associated with Communists out of her own free will, and in the USA all of her friends in Dallas were Russian expatriate Anticommunists.

James Hosty said he suspected that Marina Oswald was a "sleeper agent" for the KGB -- but in my CT, James Hosty was working with both Robert Alan Surrey and General Walker to keep vital data from the Secret Service PRS during the JFK visit. James Hosty was part of a Radical Right plot against JFK -- that's how it appears to my CT.

In conclusion, Chris, you have military experience, and I don't. But I think that you might agree with me that passing the tests for an actual career in the Intelligence Community is far, far more difficult than one would expect; right?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 18, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

So, Chris, you have military experience, and I don't. But I think that you might agree with me that passing the tests for actual career in the Intelligence Community is far harder than taking an ordinary Civil Service Exam. Right?

That is a complex question.

I do not know the general process which the Navy employs to recruit enlisted personnel for ONI. I can offer that the Army's Delta Force visited my battalion and conducted recruitment briefings in the 1980's (which I did not attend because I did not meet the requirements - unmarried E5 & Above in 2nd tour of enlistment). My understanding was that they only visited select combat arms units and mine, at the time, was dominating CAT competition.

I had been told that there was a battery of psychological exams and a month of Escape and Evade among other tests that must have been completed just to begin their training that might have lasted 18 months. Recruits that failed would be re-assigned to another theater and not returned to their original units at all to protect the identities of those that passed.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Chris Newton

[Tom Neal]

That's correct, Paul. The russians didn't want to kill JFK.

The thing about the Russians, imo, ...I think some were comfortable with JFK being taken out of the way.

Khrushchev and JFK *BOTH* had the "hardliners" in their military pushing for war. While JFK & NK were working together to prevent a war, the military in BOTH countries had a common goal: stop the peace process. Killing JFK had to be a more appealing solution to the USSR than assassinating Khrushchev, and of course NK was deposed about a year after the assassination IIRC.

I remain convinced that it was a domestic conspiracy, and I've seen no evidence that the KGB or soviet military was involved. But, if they could have "helped", I imagine there were individuals or groups that would have done so. Rather like Allen Dulles' assistance to the French Military Intelligence members in their campaign to assassinate deGaulle.

[Paul Trejo]

That's correct, Paul. The russians didn't want to kill JFK.

The thing about the Russians, imo, ...I think some were comfortable with JFK being taken out of the way.

Khrushchev and JFK *BOTH* had the "hardliners" in their military pushing for war. While JFK & NK were working together to prevent a war, the military in BOTH countries had a common goal: stop the peace process. Killing JFK had to be a more appealing solution to the USSR than assassinating Khrushchev, and of course NK was deposed about a year after the assassination IIRC.

I remain convinced that it was a domestic conspiracy, and I've seen no evidence that the KGB or soviet military was involved. But, if they could have "helped", I imagine there were individuals or groups that would have done so. Rather like Allen Dulles' assistance to the French Military Intelligence members in their campaign to assassinate deGaulle.

Tom,

I tend to agree with you. The only open question, IMHO, is whether the domestic JFK conspiracy was Civilian or Governmental.

I am siding with Civilian, according to Jeff Caufield's recent work (2015). Of course, General Walker was formerly in the Government, but he had accused the Pentagon (as well as the White House and State Department) with Communism when he joined the JBS, so it was clearly political -- but still Civilian.

In any case, LHO was not acting on orders from any Intelligence Community except the bogus FPCC and its founders at 544 Camp Street. Yes, some of those guys were part of the Bay of Pigs Brigade, and had mercenaries paid by the CIA at one point -- but by late 1963 they were all involved in Civilian brigades.

I find David Morales and Howard Hunt there, yes, but also Loran Hall, Frank Sturgis, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Larry Howard, Fred Crisman, Jack S. Martin, Tom Beckham, David Ferrie and many others who were only mercenaries -- that is, Civilians -- working at that level. They high-jacked a Kill-Fidel plot by the CIA into their Dallas plot. That's what David Atlee Phillips said in his manuscript, THE AMLASH LEGACY (1988) and I find that plausible.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 19, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Good one Tom.

There was more to unite the CIA and KGB than to divide them. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just my way of reading this.

Could this be a better way to view the friendship between Angleton and Philby?

[Tom Neal]

Good one Tom.

There was more to unite the CIA and KGB than to divide them. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just my way of reading this.

Hi Paul,

Well said. That is EXACTLY what I think. It's an aspect of the assassination that seems to have escaped scrutiny.

Could this be a better way to view the friendship between Angleton and Philby?

Now you're reading my mind as well as my words. Background-wise Angleton is a better fit with Philby and the other defectors, than with the top CIA people. As he said, he only got his lofty position because he promised not to polygraph Dulles and the others - not because he earned it. Did Philby play Angleton for a fool, or was Angleton only playing the fool?

Where's the safest and most effective place in CIA for a mole to hide? In charge of the mole hunters, of course. Angleton's unsuccessful mole hunt did more damage to CIA than any mole could have, and he certainly is a suspect in the eyes of many.

Unless something new shows up in 2017, I don't think a viable candidate for Angleton's alleged mole exists. IMO, the Republicans are more likely to keep the files closed, than the democrats. The odds of a Trump presidency are declining rapidly, so hopefully Hillary will "free the files."

[Paul Trejo]

Unless something new shows up in 2017, I don't think a viable candidate for Angleton's alleged mole exists. IMO, the Republicans are more likely to keep the files closed, than the democrats. The odds of a Trump presidency are declining rapidly, so hopefully Hillary will "free the files."

Tom,

I don't think it matters whether Trump or Clinton wins next month's election for US President if we're talking about the JFK Records Act of 1992 coming to fulfillment in October 2017. It was signed by a former US President, GHW Bush, and that is the appropriate authority to release these records.

The timing was apt -- the USSR had fallen in 1990 and the JFK Records Act was signed in 1992. This suggests a direct linkage between the "National Security" concerns voiced by the Warren Commission and the secrecy of the hidden JFK evidence.

The politics of the Cold War remained the sticking point. The US Radical Right in 1963 was far more incendiary than we recognize today, so many decades later. We fail to recognize how looming a figure that General Walker was in early 1962. JFK and RFK had refused to allow TV cameras in the Senate Subcommittee on Military Preparedness in April 1962, which reviewed the removal of General Walker from his post in Augsburg Germany -- because Walker had such an enormous following in April 1962.

Walker was even on the front cover of Newsweek magazine. Here's the cover from December 4, 1961:

http://www.pet880.com/images/19611204_Newsweek_Cover.JPG

And Walker made many sold-out speeches coast to coast; like this one, also from December, 1961:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYyONwsHqbw

The movie, Seven Days in May (1964), starting Burt Lancaster, was arguably written in response to Walker's growing populism, and had the JFK stamp of approval.

It's hard to find a correlate to Walker today -- there are rightist Generals like Michael Flynn, for example, but Walker deliberately resigned from the US Army, forfeiting his 30 year pension, protesting some "Communism" inside the Pentagon itself. Along with his Minutemen detail in Dallas, Walker was a significant threat to the perceived Unity of the USA.

In summary, the truth about the JFK assassination had to be withheld -- otherwise riots would have emerged between the left and the right in the USA -- during the Cold War -- a clear issue of National Security.

It is somewhat similar to the political climate of 2016. But the Communists themselves are no longer the threat, and Fidel Castro himself is no longer a major player.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 19, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Well, the truth did not have to be withheld to protect the far right as far as you are capable of defining it. But it did have to be withheld to protect the actual, non bubble world Right Wing. You artificially limit the scope of who JFK's enemies were and what they were capable of and who they were truly aligned with. You mention Seven Days in May and then conflate that idea, that JFK was worried about his own generals, with Edwin Walker, and don't even give a glance in the direction of LeMay and Lemnitzer. It's a fantasy to think that Allen Dulles, J Edgar Hoover and others were heroes who saved us from Civil War.

But - doesn't the current president, whoever that is, have the right to assert their own authority over GHWB? I believe so. Anyone know otherwise?

[Paul Trejo]

Well, the truth did not have to be withheld to protect the far right as far as you are capable of defining it. But it did have to be withheld to protect the actual, non bubble world Right Wing. You artificially limit the scope of who JFK's enemies were and what they were capable of and who they were truly aligned with. You mention Seven Days in May and then conflate that idea, that JFK was worried about his own generals, with Edwin Walker, and don't even give a glance in the direction of LeMay and Lemnitzer. It's a fantasy to think that Allen Dulles, J Edgar Hoover and others were heroes who saved us from Civil War.

But - doesn't the current president, whoever that is, have the right to assert their own authority over GHWB? I believe so. Anyone know otherwise?

No, the Truth wasn't withheld to protect the Radical Right -- but to prevent riots in the streets during the Cold War.

National Security.

J. Edgar Hoover figured out who the JFK KIllers were by 3pm on 11/22/1963 -- when Dallas served up Lee Harvey Oswald and labeled him a Communist and an officer of the FPCC. Hoover had a fat file on LHO, and knew right away that: (1) LHO was never a Communist; and (2) LHO was never an officer of the FPCC.

But Hoover did know that LHO was in New Orleans that summer, and that the FPCC that LHO was involved with in New Orleans was FAKE. We know this because Hoover himself told the WC in his testimony.

That means that Hoover knew who was behind the JFK assassination -- the same people who were framing LHO as a Communist.

That was why Hoover came up with the "Lone Nut" fiction about LHO by 3pm on 11/22/1963 (according to Professor David Wrone). He knew damn well that General Walker and the Radical Right were the culprits.

Hoover chose to deny the JFK Killers their ultimate goal -- to blame the Communists for the JFK assassination.

Yet even today -- a half-century later -- the dupes of the JFK Killers are still trying to link LHO and Marina with the KGB.

By the way, General Walker and the Birchers also wanted to link LHO with the CIA -- which for them was the same as the KGB. This was said word-for-word in the WC testimony of Revilo P. Oliver.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 20, 2016 by Paul Trejo