Paul Trejo Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Cliff, I really like your observation that studying Oswald may not be studying the JFK assassination. Your observation runs against the grain of accepted truth, which I like. It demands, or at least calls for, new thinking about the available record. It justifies IMO this entire thread. I've thought Oswald was a distraction. That he had nothing at all to do with JFK's or J.D. Tippit's murder. That he was what he said he was, a patsy. A low-life, self-avowed Marxist, who eschewed formal education despite having a keen mind, who engaged in self-education. Greg Parker writes that he was a high-level AS person, which I find interesting but without support I recognize clearly in the written record. Maybe Marina's lamentations and Dr. Hartog's observations are support for Greg's claim, I don't know. If I accept your observation, I'm struck immediately by the fact the DPD zeroed in on him within about 1.25 hours of the assassination for no reason that makes sense. That tells me the plotters had Oswald in focus all along. And also that the plotters had pre-programmed certain members of the DPD and perhaps Roy Truly. There just was no reason that stands up to examination why the police sent a massive force to the Texas Theater. DPD activity post-assassination and pre-Oswald-arrest is the nucleus of the case against Oswald. And under examination, that activity lacks explanation. The American people don't know this. Most Americans, I believe, think a guy named Oswald had something to do with JFK's death. That's perfect from the plotter's standpoint. Well, Jon, IMHO, Lee Harvey OSWALD had nothing to do with the JFK murder, or with the Tippit murder -- except that he knew exactly who killed these people. After all -- OSWALD was the Patsy for both murders. OSWALD recognized too late -- shortly before he was himself murdered -- exactly who had made him a "Patsy." We agree that OSWALD was a Patsy -- but we seem to disagree about how important a Patsy must be for the JFK murder. That the DPD zeroed in on OSWALD within about 1.5 hours of the JFK murder does seem to suggest that the plotters were watching OSWALD through various accomplices in Dallas, including members of the DPD and perhaps some civilians. The search for JFK's killer might not justify sending a massive DPD force to the Texas Theater -- but the search for Tippit's killer might -- if somebody in the DPD had a "clue" for them to follow. Clearly -- those who plotted to murder JFK would have had this "clue". It involved a call to the 112th INTC Military Base, which had records on Lee Harvey OSWALD. Somebody was ready to make the call on cue. You say, Jon, that "DPD activity post-assassination and pre-Oswald-arrest is the nucleus of the case against Oswald." I find that I agree, and I also agree that it requires explanation. Although most Americans doubt the "Lone Nut" conclusion by the Warren Commission, the "Lone Nut" theory has been so pervasive that it still rears its familiar head on public media. The general tendency -- if there is one -- is to suspect that OSWALD had "something" to do with the JFK murder -- something like a "pawn" for the CIA or some power greater than OSWALD -- powers so large they could compel the US Government to Cover-up this Crime for 75 years. In other words, the likelihood that this was a strictly Civilian crime has received very little attention in the past 50 years. What is interesting about this thread, Jon, is the notion, finally, that OSWALD (besides being the Patsy) had nothing whatsoever to do with the JFK murder -- or with the Tippit murder (besides being the Patsy). Still -- although the study of OSWALD or RUBY cannot shed more light on the JFK and OSWALD murders -- beyond the light that a Patsy can shed -- it might be enough to focus on the PATSIFICATION. Shall we say that the Patsification of OSWALD only began in mid-October 1963, when he first showed up at the TSBD building? If that's the case -- what might that say about the JFK killers? Were they headquartered in Dallas -- as some say? Or were they headquartered in New Orleans, as suspected by Jim Garrison, Joan Mellen and Oliver Stone? Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited March 12, 2015 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I think the DPD zeroed in within 18 minutes. I wish some of you would visit the thread I resurrected called Oswald - from out of the Cosmos. In addition to JBS and Minutemen connections for many Dallas cops, they were also in the local military intelligence unit, the 488th, led by Jack Crichton. Bill Kelly's article leading off that thread goes into great detail about the connections between DPD, local military intelligence, and the motorcade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 BLAST FROM THE PAST re DPD http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15971&page=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 So, Paul B., if the DPD were on the trail of Lee Harvey OSWALD within 18 minutes of the JFK murder, then this suggests foreknowledge and a conspiracy. I'm interested in the thread you mentioned, about the DPD and their JBS, Minutemen and right-wing ties, Paul B. What is the name of that thread? Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Oswald - from out of the cosmos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) JFKcountercoup: OSWALD - FROM OUT OF THE COSMOS OSWALD - FROM OUT OF THE COSMOS By William Kelly ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] and may I add SHELLY IN NEW ORLEANS http://oswaldinthedo...4/06/uh-oh.html and SPIDER'S WEB http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6017&p=53294 ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] from Spider's Web(4) During the 1930’s the Texas Rangers shifted their efforts from bank robbers to drug smugglers. Joe Bergin joined them in 1934 as a Special Ranger. It is possible that his career move from school superintendent in Greenville to schoolbook salesman in Dallas had something to with a desire to advance his opportunities in law enforcement under the cover of schoolbook publisher Scott Foresman. He may have been among the Texas Rangers in Dallas monitoring the drug and gambling activities of Jack Ruby and his friends. Since Jack Ruby was also involved in smuggling arms, the Texas Rangers may have monitored that activity as well. ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] below related : GOVERNMENT APPROVED DRUG/ARMS TRADE (FROM the TSBD ??) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ5oSS_UQeA&list=UU1vTH0ByVIcIOB83FbvHP7Q Published on Mar 7, 2015 The TACA case. How the government allowed arms and drug trades into Central America and intentionally looked the other way rather than prosecuting the mafia. This action in the 30s made Sam Carolla rich and set the stage for the infamous Marcello brothers and other in the New Orleans branch of the Mafia in the 50s and 60s. Who many believe were involved in the Kennedy assassinations. Edited March 12, 2015 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Oswald - from out of the cosmos. OK, Paul B., I just read that short thread. It's a good one. I'm very comfortable speculating on this aspect of the JFK murder with you, Paul B., because this appears to be the one aspect that we can agree upon -- that the Dallas Police Department played a far larger role in the JFK murder than the Warren Commission ever hinted. IMHO, the keynote in the narrative in the OSWALD - FROM OUT OF THE COSMOS thread, is that the 112th INTC Military had a case file on Lee Harvey OSWALD that consisted largely in newspaper clippings from New Orleans during OSWALD's summer of 1963 -- the Sheep-dipping episode -- starting in April 1963, but reaching a climax in August 1963, with countless newspaper reports of OSWALD's arrest in NOLA, his scuffle with Carlos Bringuier, his radio appearance and his TV appearance. In other words, virtually all of the material that OSWALD took with him to Mexico City (and revealed in the Lopez Report) was in the possession of the 112th INTC Military Unit in Texas. WHY? It is my belief that the OSWALD Framers in New Orleans and the JFK Killers in Dallas carefully coordinated these records, since the PATSY was not merely selected in mid-October, when OSWALD took a job at the TSBD building, but was selected during the New Orleans period -- when he was *deliberately* Sheep-dipped to be the Patsy. This is supported by Harry Dean's claim that the Patsy selection was finalized near the middle of September 1963 when Edwin Walker told Harry Dean, along with Guy Gabaldon, John Rousselot and other JBS stalwarts, that OSWALD, an FPCC Communist in New Orleans, was going to be their Patsy. The right-wing connections between the DPD, Edwin Walker, Minutemen, JBS, along with confederates inside the 112th INTC -- this all adds up to a plot that involves New Orleans and Dallas going back for months in Dallas. It still remains possible (remotely) that David Atlee Phillips BELIEVED he was grooming OSWALD for a hit on Fidel Castro, while Ex-General Edwin Walker and his ground-crew in Dallas *stole* OSWALD from that plot and used him as a Patsy in Dallas for the JFK murder. I find it harder to believe that Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, Jack S. Martin, Fred Crisman and Thomas Beckham were surprised at the JFK outcome. It is equally hard to believe that Frank Sturgis, David Morales, Howard Hunt, Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Gerry Patrick Hemming were surprised at the JFK outcome. With so many confederates in the South, it seems to me logical to suppose that Edwin WALKER had confederates inside the DPD, as well as the Dallas County offices, as well as the 112th INTC Military Unit. As for JD Tippit -- his participation the framing of OSWALD suggests to me that Tippit also participated in the murder of JFK -- and according to at least one photographic expert, Tippit might have been BADGE-MAN himself. I accept Ricky White's claim that his dad, Roscoe White, was also a shooter that day. I accept Mike Robinson's claim that Roscoe White killed JD Tippit. My guess is that Tippit became over-excited, and had started to boast about his famous head-shot -- which was a breach of the rules amongst the JFK Killers. That's why JD Tippit had to die -- and this was simply good luck for the JFK Killers, because they would add Cop-killer to the charges against Lee Harvey OSWALD, and further prejudice the public (and the DPD) against OSWALD. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited March 12, 2015 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Oswald - from out of the cosmos. OK, Paul B., I just read that short thread. It's a good one. I'm very comfortable speculating on this aspect of the JFK murder with you, Paul B., because this appears to be the one aspect that we can agree upon -- that the Dallas Police Department played a far larger role in the JFK murder than the Warren Commission ever hinted. IMHO, the keynote in the narrative in the OSWALD - FROM OUT OF THE COSMOS thread, is that the 112th INTC Military had a case file on Lee Harvey OSWALD that consisted largely in newspaper clippings from New Orleans during OSWALD's summer of 1963 -- the Sheep-dipping episode -- starting in April 1963, but reaching a climax in August 1963, with countless newspaper reports of OSWALD's arrest in NOLA, his scuffle with Carlos Bringuier, his radio appearance and his TV appearance. In other words, virtually all of the material that OSWALD took with him to Mexico City (and revealed in the Lopez Report) was in the possession of the 112th INTC Military Unit in Texas. WHY? It is my belief that the OSWALD Framers in New Orleans and the JFK Killers in Dallas carefully coordinated these records, since the PATSY was not merely selected in mid-October, when OSWALD took a job at the TSBD building, but was selected during the New Orleans period -- when he was *deliberately* Sheep-dipped to be the Patsy. This is supported by Harry Dean's claim that the Patsy selection was finalized near the middle of September 1963 when Edwin Walker told Harry Dean, along with Guy Gabaldon, John Rousselot and other JBS stalwarts, that OSWALD, an FPCC Communist in New Orleans, was going to be their Patsy. The right-wing connections between the DPD, Edwin Walker, Minutemen, JBS, along with confederates inside the 112th INTC -- this all adds up to a plot that involves New Orleans and Dallas going back for months in Dallas. It still remains possible (remotely) that David Atlee Phillips BELIEVED he was grooming OSWALD for a hit on Fidel Castro, while Ex-General Edwin Walker and his ground-crew in Dallas *stole* OSWALD from that plot and used him as a Patsy in Dallas for the JFK murder. I find it harder to believe that Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, Jack S. Martin, Fred Crisman and Thomas Beckham were surprised at the JFK outcome. It is equally hard to believe that Frank Sturgis, David Morales, Howard Hunt, Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Gerry Patrick Hemming were surprised at the JFK outcome. With so many confederates in the South, it seems to me logical to suppose that Edwin WALKER had confederates inside the DPD, as well as the Dallas County offices, as well as the 112th INTC Military Unit. As for JD Tippit -- his participation the framing of OSWALD suggests to me that Tippit also participated in the murder of JFK -- and according to at least one photographic expert, Tippit might have been BADGE-MAN himself. I accept Ricky White's claim that his dad, Roscoe White, was also a shooter that day. I accept Mike Robinson's claim that Roscoe White killed JD Tippit. My guess is that Tippit became over-excited, and had started to boast about his famous head-shot -- which was a breach of the rules amongst the JFK Killers. That's why JD Tippit had to die -- and this was simply good luck for the JFK Killers, because they would add Cop-killer to the charges against Lee Harvey OSWALD, and further prejudice the public (and the DPD) against OSWALD. Regards, --Paul Trejo Dear "Professor" Trejo, Have you ever considered starting your own website? You could call it "By the Numbers -- How Edwin Walker Masterminded the JFK Assassination". --Tommy Edited March 12, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Paul - why ignore the info on the 488th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Jon - you started this thread. You are ex-military. What do you think about the connections between local military intelligence units, especially the 488th,and the motorcade, and the Dallas police, especially the so-called Special Investigations unit (detectives)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Paul - why ignore the info on the 488th? Well, Paul B., I thought that the 488th was a little bit oversold by Kelly in that narrative. For example, George Lumpkin, a former officer in the 488th Texas Army Intelligence unit headed by Jack Chrichton, was said to be driving in the JFK Motorcade "Pilot" car, a half-mile ahead of the rest of the motorcade, and after turning on Houston from Main, pulled over to a curb by the TSBD to inform the traffic cops on that corner that the motorcade was coming. In Kelly's narrative, this act also informed the 6th floor sniper of the approach of the motorcade. I find that to be an unlikely and unncessary thesis. First, all the shooters (at least three) and their crew (at least three more with walkie-talkies) were already being coordinated by a ground-crew with walkie-talkies and an umbrella for visual coordination. They did not need to risk a curb-to-sixth-floor report -- even if it was possible. Yet, I cannot accept a single voice at a curb, speaking in a normal volume surrounded by a crowd of onlookers, being heard clearly six floors above the curb. So, that's my first objection. It's interesting that Lt. General George Whitmeyer, commander of all Army Reserve Units in East Texas, including the 488th MI Detachment, was sitting in Lumpkin's back seat. It most curious when one reads that "more than half of the unit were Dallas policeman." One would want to examine the politics of the 488th Intel Unit, to see whether they were a regular source for DPD officers. It may or may not be important that George De Mohrenschildt was "reporting" to the 488th Intel Unit at some level while he was also babysitting OSWALD. It remains to be seen what those "reports" consisted of. The connection between the 488th and the 112th is also interesting - since it seems that the direct linkage to OSWALD's New Orleans records and files were first obtained from the 112th. One would wish to know more about the Military Linkage. It would suggest to me, for example, that Ex-General Edwin WALKER had one or more Rogues inside the US Military working for him (that is, working for the extreme right wing of American politics). Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited March 12, 2015 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Once again I would suggest that you reread the spartacus article on Jack Crixhton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Sorry - Crichton. You want to know the 'politics' of the 488th? Look no further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Paul Brancato @ post #595: You ask from my perspective an interesting question, but I don't have a satisfactory answer. I don't because my military intelligence experience was so compartmentalized. I was trained, in language and in basic counter-intelligence, here in the States. I applied what I learned in Viet Nam but learned vastly more in Viet Nam about intelligence collection than I learned in the States. Vastly more. I know what I've just said is not helpful. I gathered from my training that M.I. officers like me were performing duties here in the United States. I heard stories. Intriguing stories. What M.I. units did here in the States was completely, totally different from what M.I. units did in Viet Nam. In the army, the central goal is to achieve a mission. In 1970, the mission here in the States for an M.I. unit might be to ascertain the intentions and capabilities of the leaders of an anti-war protest. In 1970, the mission in Viet Nam for an M.I. unit might be to ascertain the intentions and capabilities of a certain NVA unit operating in South Viet Nam. I heard stories about U.S.-based M.I. units. I experienced M.I. in Viet Nam. The only thing in common when I was in the army was the mission: to gather information important to army decision-makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Thanks for sharing that Jon, especially the possibility that MI units were closely monitoring anti-war activists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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