For Cliff Varnell: Where did the Bullet in JFK's Back go?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Cliff

A .22 has a range of 100 metres, but good luck hitting a moving target in the head at that range. Name the make and model of weapon Black Dog man was using, the muzzle velocity, and tell me what became of the projectile.

The throat wound was also described by some Parkland doctors as being as small as 3 mm. Many of these doctors also stated the wound could be one of exit OR entrance. I seriously doubt any of them thought it through enough to comprehend the wound could have been made by a fragment smaller than a 6.5 mm bullet.

Jerrol Custer also told the ARRB that most of the organs had been removed from JFK before he was allowed to x-ray JFK's chest. THAT is why no bullet fragments showed up on x-ray. Do you know what a tension pneumothorax is? Do you know the signs and symptoms of a tension pneumothorax, and the proscribed procedure for relieving a tension pneumothorax?

P.S.

I don't particularly give a rat's a$$ what you can or cannot stand.

[Cliff Varnell]

Hello Jon

I believe the first thing we must do, when attempting to analyze the JFK murder case, is to separate facts from assumptions. Due to the massive indoctrination we have suffered, for the last 50 years, at the hands of WC promoters, it is a commonly held belief that JFK suffered his throat wound while behind the Stemmons sign, and that he can be seen "clutching" his throat in the Z film.

That's how close proximity witnesses like Nellie Connally and Linda Willis described it.

But when multiple witnesses see things the same -- some dismiss them out of hand...

However, the available evidence shows us his hands were balled into fists, and merely raised to the level of his throat.

Factually incorrect. He held his right hand cupped in front of his mouth while his left forefinger "clutched" at the tie. After a couple of seconds the right hand balled into a fist and the left forefinger remained pointing.

He acted paralyzed two seconds after getting hit -- consistent with known CIA/Amy SOD technology.

We also have Nellie Connally, who was looking right at JFK at this time, and who clearly stated there was no blood to be seen on JFK anywhere. Do you really think a rifle shot that tore up the right side of JFK's trachea is not going to bleed profusely?

It nicked the trachea and caused minor damage and left nothing on x-ray.

In short, there is no evidence to support the belief that JFK had a throat wound prior to the explosive head shots.

The witness statements, Zap frames 186-255, Betzner 3, Willis 5 and Altgens 6 prove you wrong.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Cliff

Think about something very hard here for a second. If the "projectile" that entered JFK's back caused a hairline fracture of the T1 transverse process as it passed over it, two inescapable facts are established:

1. The bullet had to travel further than the transverse process of T1.

2. In order to fracture this bone, the bullet had to be travelling at a sufficient velocity, in order to have this much energy, that would have propelled it straight through JFK's neck and out the front of his neck. If we rule out the throat wound as an exit site, where did it go?

Or, do you believe the projectile dissolved within JFK? I'd really like to see what kind of projectile is capable of this.

[Robert Prudhomme]

It did not merely "nick" the trachea, it tore the right side of the trachea, leaving a long hole in it. That is why the tracheostomy was necessary. They attempted to only intubate JFK at first but found, when positive pressure ventilation was initiated, that all of the air was escaping through the trachea.

The throat wound should have bled profusely.

If the throat wound was behind the tie knot, how were all of these witnesses able to see it, aside from the fact it was a tiny wound 3-5 mm in diameter? How do the photographs and the Z film establish the existence of this wound?

P.S.

Please show me the left forefinger "clutching" the necktie, and explain to me why you have to type it as "clutching".

Edited January 2, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Cliff Varnell]

Cliff

A .22 has a range of 100 metres, but good luck hitting a moving target in the head at that range.

Black Dog Man was considerably closer than 100 meters.

Name the make and model of weapon Black Dog man was using, the muzzle velocity, and tell me what became of the projectile.

Charles Senseney called the project "M-1." Here's a photo of the weapon.

The projectile dissolved.

Got homework?

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf

The throat wound was also described by some Parkland doctors as being as small as 3 mm. Many of these doctors also stated the wound could be one of exit OR entrance.

Only after badgering by Specter. The wound was described as "punctate."

I seriously doubt any of them thought it through enough to comprehend the wound could have been made by a fragment smaller than a 6.5 mm bullet.

So the witnesses were all mistaken and the x-ray is fake. What else you got?

Jerrol Custer also told the ARRB that most of the organs had been removed from JFK before he was allowed to x-ray JFK's chest. THAT is why no bullet fragments showed up on x-ray.

They did NOT remove the neck organs.

Repeat: they did NOT remove the neck organs.

The neck was off-limits.

Do you know what a tension pneumothorax is? Do you know the signs and symptoms of a tension pneumothorax, and the proscribed procedure for relieving a tension pneumothorax?

Doesn't change the fact there was no metal in the neck x-ray and the Parkland witnesses described a wound of entrance and the Dealey witnesses described JFK reaching for the throat.

Strike 3 yer out!

P.S.

I don't particularly give a rat's a$$ what you can or cannot stand.

Witness bash all you want. Makes for compelling discussion when I defend them.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

Cliff

Think about something very hard here for a second. If the "projectile" that entered JFK's back caused a hairline fracture of the T1 transverse process as it passed over it, two inescapable facts are established:

Please stop!

That's not what happened.

At circa Z190 JFK was struck in the throat from the front. It nicked the right side of his trachea, broke blood vessels, caused a hairline fracture of the right T1 transverse process, and left an air-pocket overlaying C7/T1.

Like this:

1. The bullet had to travel further than the transverse process of T1.

2. In order to fracture this bone, the bullet had to be travelling at a sufficient velocity, in order to have this much energy, that would have propelled it straight through JFK's neck and out the front of his neck. If we rule out the throat wound as an exit site, where did it go?

Or, do you believe the projectile dissolved within JFK? I'd really like to see what kind of projectile is capable of this.

Got yer homework cut out for ya.

Check out Greg Burnham's site -- he's got lots of photos of flechettes.

[Robert Prudhomme]

You don't understand the first thing about a pneumothorax, right?

[Cliff Varnell]

It did not merely "nick" the trachea, it tore the right side of the trachea, leaving a long hole in it. That is why the tracheostomy was necessary. They attempted to only intubate JFK at first but found, when positive pressure ventilation was initiated, that all of the air was escaping through the trachea.

The throat wound should have bled profusely.

And a first-shot/kill shot should do more damage than a hair-line fracture of the right T1 transverse process.

A metal round that didn't exit should show up on x-ray.

I dare say you're exaggerating the trachea damage, Robert.

If the throat wound was behind the tie knot, how were all of these witnesses able to see it, aside from the fact it was a tiny wound 3-5 mm in diameter?

Above the tie knot below the adam's apple.

How do the photographs and the Z film establish the existence of this wound?

If you can watch the Gil Jesus video I cited above and not conclude JFK was reacting to throat trauma -- what difference does any of the other evidence make?

P.S.

Please show me the left forefinger "clutching" the necktie, and explain to me why you have to type it as "clutching".

I agree with Gil's analysis:

For a couple of seconds JFK held his right hand out cupped in front of his mouth while his left forefinger clutched at his tie, attempting to loosen it.

[Cliff Varnell]

You don't understand the first thing about a pneumothorax, right?

You've got a lot more on your plate than pneumothorax.

Where did the metal fragments go -- why are all the witnesses wrong about what they saw?

[Robert Prudhomme]

The problem you have here, as I see it, is that you need this pistol like weapon to deliver a projectile into JFK's throat, but you don't dare have it go in more than an inch, or it will rip apart the carotid artery on the right side of the trachea. The SBT supporters have precisely the same problem, only in reverse.

A .45 Colt handgun fired at JFK's throat from that range would have made a very large mess, and likely would have broken some cervical vertebrae. So, your handgun had to have its velocity drastically reduced, in order to prevent its projectile from tearing apart the carotid artery and breaking vertebrae.

Its velocity would have to be so low, it would be ridiculously inaccurate. Maybe Umbrella Man could have made the shot.

Now, IF JFK's carotid artery had been severed, and I cannot see how even your projectile could have avoided doing that, if it went by the trachea with sufficient force and velocity to tear it, viewer's of the Z film would have seen great spouts of blood erupting from JFK's neck, and Nellie most certainly would NOT have said there was no blood visible.

[Cliff Varnell]

At Z186 (Betzner 3) JFK was sitting bolt up-right.

Hugh Betzner said he took his 3rd photo right before he heard a shot.

Phill Willis took his 5th photo (Z202) in startle response to gunfire.

Notice JFK leaning to the left in reaction to the shot from the front-right.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[Robert Prudhomme]

Where did all of the metal fragments go? Did you not read the part about Jerrol Custer testifying to the ARRB that the neck x-ray he remembered seeing showed a great number of metal fragments?

Did you not read also that Jerrol Custer testified to the ARRB that the Y incision had already been made on JFK's torso and most of the organs removed PRIOR to his x-raying the torso?

Hint: The lungs are also considered organs.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Robert Prudhomme]

At Z186 (Betzner 3) JFK was sitting bolt up-right.

Hugh Betzner said he took his 3rd photo right before he heard a shot.

Phill Willis took his 5th photo (Z202) in startle response to gunfire.

Notice JFK leaning to the left in reaction to the shot from the front-right.

I hate to rain on your parade but, this is not evidence of a bullet hole in JFK's throat. He could be reacting to a bullet in the top of his right lung, at this point.

[Cliff Varnell]

The problem you have here, as I see it, is that you need this pistol like weapon to deliver a projectile into JFK's throat, but you don't dare have it go in more than an inch, or it will rip apart the carotid artery on the right side of the trachea. The SBT supporters have precisely the same problem, only in reverse.

The weapon was designed to silence guard dogs. Quiet them for a short time, and then they would recover good as new no one the wiser.

William Colby admitted this technology was tested on humans.

A .45 Colt handgun fired at JFK's throat from that range would have made a very large mess, and likely would have broken some cervical vertebrae. So, your handgun had to have its velocity drastically reduced, in order to prevent its projectile from tearing apart the carotid artery and breaking vertebrae.

Its velocity would have to be so low, it would be ridiculously inaccurate.

So YOU say. But you've never had access to these weapons. You have no way to limiting what the Army SOD/Staff Support Group was capable of.

It runs against your Pet Theory, that's all you've got.

Maybe Umbrella Man could have made the shot.

The trajectory was slightly left to right.

JFK turned his head to the right circa Z175 -- leaving his neck on a slightly left to right trajectory from the BDM position.

UM stood too far to JFK's right to be a shooter.

Now, IF JFK's carotid artery had been severed, and I cannot see how even your projectile could have avoided doing that, if it went by the trachea with sufficient force and velocity to tear it, viewer's of the Z film would have seen great spouts of blood erupting from JFK's neck, and Nellie most certainly would NOT have said there was no blood visible.strongly stated opinion.

So where are the metal frags?

How did veryone who witnessed the throat reaction/result get it wrong?

[Cliff Varnell]

Where did all of the metal fragments go? Did you not read the part about Jerrol Custer testifying to the ARRB that the neck x-ray he remembered seeing showed a great number of metal fragments?

Did you not see the HSCA report that concluded those post-autopsy x-ray fragments were dust artifacts?

Did you not read also that Jerrol Custer testified to the ARRB that the Y incision had already been made on JFK's torso and most of the organs removed PRIOR to his x-raying the torso?

We're discussing the neck x-ray. No organs removed from the neck.

Hint: The lungs are also considered organs.