The Most Important Error the FBI told the Warren Commission about the Rifle

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi Jon

The downward slope is an interesting thing. As noted, 3.13° is an average slope for the distance and, according to Brad, there is a flat spot further up the street, meaning that the rest of Elm St. must be steeper, in order for the average to work out to 3.13°.

[Chris Davidson]

http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/FqjJlN1J/file.html

Disregarding WCD298 for now, I believe this is the direct correlation between CE875 and the SS/FBI plat of Feb64, dealing with the Altgens shot.

It appears the measurement was to the street, not JFK'S head on this plat. And, a 3degree slope was used in the calculation.

It would look like this:

Elevation 429.7 = TSBD at street
Plat élévation for last shot at 416.83
Difference = 12.87ft
TSBD window sill= 60.7ft
60.7ft + 12.87ft = 73.57ft
73.57squared x 285squared =294.34hypotenuse = plat entries for shot #3(Altgens)

The 3 degree slope = 5.238% grade = 1ft vertical/19.09ft horizontal ratio
Elevation change at shot#3 = 12.87ft
12.87 x 19.09 = 245.7ft

TSBD = Station# 2+50
2+50 + 245.7ft =Station# 4+95.7 = CE875

chris

[Chris Davidson]

btw,

http://www67.zippyshare.com/v/kcww3u88/file.html

The angle for the previous post

chris

[Brad Milch]

Hi, Robert:

You had asked for specifications about the Queen Mary II. Here's what I've been able to gather so far from the 3 websites I've listed that have a multitude of photos & background info on the 2 1956 Cadillac 'Queen Marys' : 21 feet in length, wheelbase of 158 inches, weight of 7,000 lbs. No ride or running board height yet (I'm still searching). President Kennedy also used the car as a Presidential parade car on occasion. The replica Queen Mary in Oliver Stone's film, JFK, is shorter than the actual Queen Mary II & has a couple of historically inaccurate flaws. The Dallas Queen Mary II resides at Historic Auto Attractions, 13825 Metric Drive, Roscoe, Illinois.

http://historicautoattractions.com/s/Kennedy3.html

http://www.cadillac1956.eu/presidential.html

http://www.classic-cadillac.com/1956-cadillac-fleetwood-white-house-parade-cadillac-limo-jfk-movie-car/26384

Brad

[Robert Prudhomme]

Way to go, Brad. Information like this is invaluable. As you say, it will be nice to find the height of the running board and windshield top frame, plus the height of the SS agents.

I may go whole hog on this and actually build a scaled down model of this scene. My shop floor is quite level, and I think I can replicate the TSBD 6th floor window with a vertical wall, if I plumb it carefully. I can make Elm St. out of a straight board, and position it so it runs down from the TSBD at a 3.13° angle. Once we get proper heights for everything in the two cars, I can place two models on "Elm St." and use a laser pointer from the "6th floor" to see if JFK was clear or not.

[Brad Milch]

Hi Robert, Chris & Jon:

It's possible ride & windshield height for the Queen Mary are buried somewhere in the WC volumes. After all, that car was used to represent JFK's limo for the WC's shooting analysis & published supporting photos. Rather than wade though all those volumes I'm taking a different route.

I'm checking book sources & Pamela Brown's original JFK limo website from a few years back (I saved it in text form & have it somewhere in my own quagmire of research materials...trying now to figure out where I placed it). I seem to remember reading about the Queen Mary's ride & windshield height in a book or forum discussion along the way (back in the day to now). I don't have Jim Bishop's 'The Day Kennedy Was Shot' or Bonar Menninger's 'Mortal Error' but I do have William Manchester's 'Death Of A President'. Some info may be in those books. I'll share what specs info I find & where I found it when I find it.

What you are doing is historic. It hasn't been addressed before. I, for one, have always questioned why in this homicide it's always been assumed that a TSBD sniper's nest shooter had clearance to shoot JFK in the head at Z-313 & kill him when no visual evidence to support that assumption was ever offered the public in the original Federal investigations & MSM TV specials supporting them. To my way of thinking, analyzing if such a shooter had a clear shot at JFK at each of the street locations those investigations determined JFK was hit by gunfire is step #1 in this shooting. That step was ignored when the SS guards & their car were removed from the analysis processes.

When you conclude your analysis I believe you & those assisting or following your work will be amazed at just how close to striking one of the SS agents or their transport car the Z-313 shot was (if it was possible at all) if it did originate from the TSBD sniper's nest. The 'guesstimation' my friends & I used when we did our little analysis all those years ago created avenues of error. We realized this. It was all we had to work with at the time. We can handle it should it turn out we were wrong. 'Eyeballin' it' science can never replace the real thing. It obviously would be ineffective when attempting to land a space orbiter on an asteroid.

What you & Chris & others assisting you are doing is introducing the science & math that should nail it down for public consumption for those who cannot visit the site or those that do & who don't believe a shot at Z-313 was possible from the sniper's nest.. If it turns out that a shot from the sniper's nest was possible without striking any SS agents or their car, the public will have to accept & live with your team's results. If nothing else, it will demonstrate how close to becoming gunshot victims the Queen Mary occupants may have been during the ambush of JFK; something that has not been addressed by those analyzing this case before you & peers.

BM

Edited February 14, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi Brad

I hate to be critical all of the time but, I look at the JFK research community sometimes and am reminded of a bunch of dogs chasing their tails, and we both know how far the dog gets on that one. You said it very well a few posts back; this was first and foremost a murder, committed by one or more persons with rifles. Period.

I believe, for the last 50 years, a lot of researchers have relied upon the WC for ballistics information in this case, instead of doing the work and figuring things out for themselves, and have only succeeded in pushing the original lies from the FBI.

I am prepared to be wrong about the shooter's view of JFK at z313 being blocked by the QM but this research is not asking only one question. My model will also include the proposed final shot location, put forth by the FBI (WCD 298), with a trajectory of 307 feet from the 6th floor window; placing the final shot location almost at the concrete steps. If this really was the location of the head shot, there had to be a very good reason for the WC to move it back to z313, and a likely candidate would be the QM blocking the shooter's view.

As you say, even if JFK was visible at z313, the amount of him visible might have been extremely small; to the point that a bullet entrance wound on the lower part of the back of his head might not have been possible while the HSCA's entry wound at the cowlick might have been possible.

With this small of a view of the target, we are told worlds about the last shot. Being barely able to see your target for a car and its occupants behind it, and having that view progressively disappearing, is not conducive to accurate shooting. As Oswald would have already been rushed to make this shot with an inferior scope, this handicap would have only added to the panic.

Once I get my crude wooden model constructed, and am able to show what I am speaking about, I hope someone with good graphic skills can expand on my work, and produce a visual everyone can comprehend. Think Dale Myers might be interested?

Edited February 14, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Brad Milch]

Dale Myers certainly has the computer graphics talent, but like most of his peers he misused his talent & presented just JFK's limo containing only 2 occupants traversing Elm Street during Meyer's simulated attack. This historical distortion first began with the 1st SS re-enactment conducted the week after the assassination & continued in TV specials supporting the WC (or HSCA) & TV movies. The couple of TV movies that do include the SS Queen Mary have it traveling too far away from JFK's limo plus don't show how the attack looked from a TSBD sniper's nest shooter's perspective will all historical elements correctly in place. In Meyers case, the Peter Jennings 2004 TV special features Dale sitting at a computer screen explaining how he overlaid the Zapruder images frame by frame into his graphics software. On the computer screen behind the limo is the Queen Mary that did not make it into the completed animation. Historical accuracy was tossed out the window with the completed animation aired on TV. The most blatant misuse of leaving the Queen Mary out of the re-enactment process occurred in the TV special, 'The Kennedy Detail'. In that special agents Hill & Landis are looking down from the sniper's nest at the JFK limo replica parked in the street with no Queen Mary behind it. I suppose the public was to believe Hill ran the length of Elm Street from the intersection to JFK's limo while the Queen Mary was parked somewhere on Houston Street. What was shown was, IMHO, about as bad 7 insulting to the global public as it can get.

When one looks at WCD 298's images with the 3 strings indicating shot locations & watches DPD Lt. Day placing the headshot cone in the wrong place on Elm Street (near the sidewalk steps near Zapruder & Sitzman) in the initial SS film re-enactments, sees JFK's head explode at Z-313 & his body driven towards his wife & out of sight in the z-film, one can't help but wonder 'what the heck is going on here'? That wasn't grocery baggers out on Elm Street with survey equipment & Oswald's alleged scope & barrel mounted on a tripod, the view filmed by an FBI man in the sniper's nest, was it? How could all those qualified people be so obviously wrong?

As best I can tell with the available visuals, the 'tailgating' of the SS Queen Mary ended when Greer accelerated the limo & Clint Hill is trying to mount the rear bumper. This action is visible in the Nix film. Theoretically, line of sight from sniper's nest to JFK's head blockage ended then, but JFK was not visible above his seat at that time frame. A TSBD sniper's nest shooter would have to had put a round into the trunk to hit JFK, head down across the seat (Clint Hill has repeatedly reported JFK was face-up on the back seat; no shot from the sniper's nest could strike JFK in the back of his head in such a posture) and miss both Jackie & Clint Hill as well. Why the WC placed the headshot near the pergola sidewalk steps is a red flag to many following the case & your research that some serious hanky-panky & fudging was going on behind closed doors.

For those that have pixel counting software that indicates distance of an object from another, Queen Mary is visible during the 'tailgate' portion of its journey behind JFK's limo in the Nix, Bronson & Muchmore films. Bell & Paschal caught it moving into the underpass & Daniels caught it coming out the other side of the TUP, post 'tailgating'. Samuel Kinney did a fantastic job of staying right on top of JFK's limo & not smacking into it the entire motorcade route. I've yet to see a film or photo depicting Kinney further than what looks like 5-10 feet in any of the pre & post visuals available to the public (when not negotiating sharp turns). I wonder if Kinney wore the Queen Mary's brakes out by 'riding' them?

Robert, Chris & all...I am certain the model you are working on will be an immense help in its addition to the history of this homicide. I believe I speak for many that are seeking truthful, accurate answers that are not satisfied with the BS fed to them by Government investigations, reports & MSM TV & print support platforms.

BM

Edited February 15, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Chris Davidson]

Robert,

http://www76.zippyshare.com/v/GyKO1lM3/file.html

http://www25.zippyshare.com/v/X7pmoe1e/file.html

Clint Hill's approx height = 72.78 inches = 6ft .06"

JFK's height above street = 52.78 inches

Clint's height above JFK seated = approx 20 inches

chris

P.S. I'm 6'1" and measuring down 20" from my head top equals the area in the red square.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Chris,

What was Clint Hill's lateral distance from JFK at the measurements you make?

[Chris Davidson]

Jon,

I would say about the width of the car. 5ft possibly

chris

[Chris Davidson]

http://www57.zippyshare.com/v/Lq8OoAXH/file.html

The only graphic I've been able to find which includes a follow up car.

Clint said at slower speeds, the maximum distance the QM would be trailing is 5ft.

chris

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi Chris

Are you saying Hill was 6 feet tall, or 6 feet tall including the height of the Cadillac running board? He looks so short next to Jackie.

[Chris Davidson]

Robert,

From Hill's book:

Hill’s first meeting with Jackie is described like this on Page 8:

“I’d seen newspaper photographs of her, of course, but in person she was much more striking than I had imagined, She was tall — about 5 foot 7 — but it was the way she carried herself, almost gliding into the room with a dancer’s erect posture, that exuded an air of quiet confidence. Her chin-length dark brown hair was perfectly coiffed. And she wore just a touch of makeup, enough to accentuate her dark brown eyes and full lips but still look natural. She was very attractive, very gracious and very pregnant.”

From Bill O Reilly's "Killing Kennedy"

http://www72.zippyshare.com/v/FbelI4Vc/file.html

I'm willing to change the specs, if someone has better sources.

chris

[Robert Prudhomme]

No that's fine, Chris. I just wasn't sure what you meant by 6 feet.

So Clint Hill was 6 feet tall. It's funny how camera angles will put things in different perspectives. It always appeared that the 5 foot 7 Jackie was much taller than him, although 3 and 4 inch heels were common on women in those days.

The same trick perspective applies to the Altgens 6 photo. A poster on another forum pointed out to me that Jack Ready had to be much shorter than Clint Hill, and the proof he used was the Altgens 6 photo. However, a close look at the top of the QM windshield in this photo shows the QM leaning somewhat to the right side, making Ready only appear to be that much shorter. In reality, I would put Ready at 6 feet, if not a bit taller, and the agent behind him (can never remember his name) at about the same height.

So, if the top of the Caddy running board is even 10 inches off the asphalt, that means the top of Ready's head could be almost 7 feet off the pavement.

Now, although, as you pointed out, JFK was 52.78 inches to the top of his head off the pavement, while riding in the limo, I believe this measurement would be of JFK sitting upright, n'est-ce pas? After the back and neck wound, he had certainly slumped over somewhat, and I wonder how many inches we can subtract from 52.78 inches to account for this?

Also, I never subscribed to the HSCA story of the entrance wound being in JFK's cowlick, near the top of his head, and always believed Humes to be telling at least part of the truth by reporting the entrance wound to be just to the right of and slightly lower than JFK's external occipital protuberance. That alone brings our aiming point 4 inches down from the top of his head and, combined with JFK slumping, may put our impact and aim point on JFK 3.5 feet or less above the pavement on Elm St.

So, an SS agent 7 feet tall vs. JFK at 3.5 feet tall.

P.S.

It was Agent Paul Landis behind Jack Ready. Any specs on Agent Landis?

Edited February 15, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme