The Most Important Error the FBI told the Warren Commission about the Rifle

[Chris Davidson]

I don't believe the QM back seat shot either. I do want to know if it is possible though.

http://www46.zippyshare.com/v/A4BJvLA6/file.html

Since the limo and QM separated sometime after the extant Zfilm 313 headshot (Bell film aftermath), would a 2ft. vertical rise in rifle trajectory (from the window sill) obtain a target 30ft farther down ElmSt?

chris

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi Chris

I think I see where you are going with this. You don't necessarily believe the fatal headshot was at the z313 location, and feel it might have occurred at the 307 foot trajectory location seen in WCD 298, maybe?

Hmmm...interesting.

[Robert Prudhomme]

I guess one way to find out is to finish the model, and start "shooting" with the laser pointer.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Robert @ 213:

Please do finish your model and start shooting with the laser pointer.

The laser will travel in a straight line, unlike a bullet. But it will be accurate as to line-of-sight.

[Chris Davidson]

Hi Chris

I think I see where you are going with this. You don't necessarily believe the fatal headshot was at the z313 location, and feel it might have occurred at the 307 foot trajectory location seen in WCD 298, maybe?

Hmmm...interesting.

Robert,

Not quite the 307ft, closer to 295ft.

Disregarding WCD298 for now, I believe this is the direct correlation between CE875 and the SS/FBI plat of Feb64, dealing with the Altgens shot.

It appears the measurement was to the street, not JFK'S head on this plat. And, a 3degree slope was used in the calculation.

It would look like this:

Elevation 429.7 = TSBD at street

Plat élévation for last shot at 416.83

Difference = 12.87ft

TSBD window sill= 60.7ft

60.7ft + 12.87ft = 73.57ft

73.57squared x 285squared =294.34hypotenuse = plat entries for shot #3(Altgens)

The 3 degree slope = 5.238% grade = 1ft vertical/19.09ft horizontal ratio

Elevation change at shot#3 = 12.87ft

12.87 x 19.09 = 245.7ft

TSBD = Station# 2+50

2+50 + 245.7ft =Station# 4+95.7 = CE875

[Brad Milch]

Hi all:

I believe the importance of WCD 298 cannot be understated. To some, WCD 298 is the primary Achilles heel of the WC Report. Something led initial investigators that had studied the z-film, surveyed Elm Street & Dealey Plaza fixed structures & photographed that crime scene in re-enactments to arrive at the placement of the 3 shot locations indicated by the 3 strings on the 3d model that is not evident to others studying that same material years later. The most popular interpretations today consist of the following:

1. Initial investigators saw visual evidence in (at least) the z-film that was later removed (film alteration/falsification).

2. Initial investigators simply were mistaken or lying (confident that the public would never know about WCD 298 or see the z-film in its entirety as a motion picture or complete series of film frames).

3. The depiction of the shots by 3 strings on the 3d model featured in WCD 298 is the closest truth of the JFK assassination the public will ever see. The 3 strings are the remaining evidence of what was removed (that justified the existence of each string) before the public could visually scrutinize the Government's case against Lee Oswald.

A key talking point is that the last of the 3 strings indicated as a shot & hit to JFK in WCD 298 is NOT supported by any evidence released to the public by the WC, FBI or SS EVER. The attached string tells the public it was a hit, not a miss. That's why the string was placed where it was. The extant z-films tells us JFK was down in the back seat at this position on Elm Street & not visible to a TSBD sniper's nest shooter; in fact, JFK ceased to be a target to such a shooter in a few frames after z-313 (when he fell across the seat, dead).

I'm not a researcher, but if I were, I believe I'd begin any contemplated work with WCD 298 & an analysis of it & the other events that led to the creation of the 3D model featured in it.

I'd also point out that WCD 298 basically was swept under the rug by the HSCA in its own ambush analysis that has the 1st shot around Z-190 & the attack ending at z-313. WCD 298 has the attack ending further down Elm Street (near the North pergola sidewalk concrete steps). Focus on WCD 298 was lost after the HSCA report until diligent researchers brought it back to life & in the public consciousness.

A salute to Robert, Chris & those keeping the focus on WCD 298 & what it means to solving the riddle. With Robert's model, the challenge will be to determine what it was that initial investigators saw that no longer exists in the film record. That's going to be a toughie, as it forces analysts to resort on what witnesses said they saw & heard & autopsy evidence that many simply don't trust.

BM

Edited February 20, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Ian Lloyd]

I think I understand now. The photos of the testing by Shaneyfelt show the rifle, at the 6th floor window, quite high in the air and mounted on a tripod. Its position is far higher than a position a shooter would have naturally assumed on the window sill.

For that matter, how did the WC arrive at the figure of the rifle being 2 feet above the window sill? If the boxes were stacked 2 feet higher than the window sill, giving Oswald a shooting rest, how did Brennan give such an accurate description of Oswald?

The other thing about that picture of Shaneyfelt with the rifle on the tripod - look at the angle the rifle is at, seems quite steep to me - how does that work with any of the shots that struck the occupants of the limo?

[Ian Lloyd]

Hi all:

I believe the importance of WCD 298 cannot be understated. To some, WCD 298 is the primary Achilles heel of the WC Report. Something led initial investigators that had studied the z-film, surveyed Elm Street & Dealey Plaza fixed structures & photographed that crime scene in re-enactments to arrive at the placement of the 3 shot locations indicated by the 3 strings on the 3d model that is not evident to others studying that same material years later. The most popular interpretations today consist of the following:

1. Initial investigators saw visual evidence in (at least) the z-film that was later removed (film alteration/falsification).

2. Initial investigators simply were mistaken or lying (confident that the public would never know about WCD 298 or see the z-film in its entirety as a motion picture or complete series of film frames).

3. The depiction of the shots by 3 strings on the 3d model featured in WCD 298 is the closest truth of the JFK assassination the public will ever see. The 3 strings are the remaining evidence of what was removed (that justified the existence of each string) before the public could visually scrutinize the Government's case against Lee Oswald.

A key talking point is that the last of the 3 strings indicated as a shot & hit to JFK in WCD 298 is NOT supported by any evidence released to the public by the WC, FBI or SS EVER. The attached string tells the public it was a hit, not a miss. That's why the string was placed where it was. The extant z-films tells us JFK was down in the back seat at this position on Elm Street & not visible to a TSBD sniper's nest shooter; in fact, JFK ceased to be a target to such a shooter in a few frames after z-313 (when he fell across the seat, dead).

I'm not a researcher, but if I were, I believe I'd begin any contemplated work with WCD 298 & an analysis of it & the other events that led to the creation of the 3D model featured in it.

I'd also point out that WCD 298 basically was swept under the rug by the HSCA in its own ambush analysis that has the 1st shot around Z-190 & the attack ending at z-313. WCD 298 has the attack ending further down Elm Street (near the North pergola sidewalk concrete steps). Focus on WCD 298 was lost after the HSCA report until diligent researchers brought it back to life & in the public consciousness.

A salute to Robert, Chris & those keeping the focus on WCD 298 & what it means to solving the riddle. With Robert's model, the challenge will be to determine what it was that initial investigators saw that no longer exists in the film record. That's going to be a toughie, as it forces analysts to resort on what witnesses said they saw & heard & autopsy evidence that many simply don't trust.

BM

Not forgetting that the FBI report states 3 shots, 3 hits - that has never been changed.

[Brad Milch]

Hi, Ian:

I agree. Hoover never backed away from his 3 shots, 3 hits analysis. One can almost visualize him explaining the ambush to LBJ with a pointer pointing to the 3 strings in the 3D model when listening to the released Hoover-LBJ phone calls post-ambush.

What has gotten lost in the decades after the assassination is that Hoover's FBI, elements of the SS & the media were the initial investigators closest to the crime itself. They had access to the ambush site, the z-film & other evidence the public did not (the Queen Mary being one example of such 'other' evidence). One will notice in the Nov 29, 1963 issue of Life, that magazine also indicates the pergola steps as the point on Elm Street where JFK was shot in the head & killed as he was near that location in his parade car. MSM was backing Government investigators & analysts from the get go. People that read that magazine & watched the CBS TV news specials that followed the release of the WC Report are still alive & remember what they were told; others born later can access that info on the Internet easily.

WCD 298 represents the work performed to measure Dealey Plaza, one of the cars involved in the ambush (Queen Mary) & line of sight from alleged shooter (sniper's nest), photographers present during the attack, etc. The 3D model represents the visual output of all that input just described. It's either a visual truth or a lie. If it's the truth, how did those initial analysts justify each of those 3 strings indicating shot hits in the 3D model?

IMHO, this is where a majority of analysts steer themselves into trouble by veering away from WCD 298 & what it indicates by starting their own analysis from scratch. WCD 298 & what it depicts should always be the starting point because of what it tells a viewer the initial analysts had determined had happened on Elm Street 51 years ago, at a time when the evidence that visual is based on was supposedly in its virgin, untampered state of being.

The challenge today is to justify the existence of the 3 strings on the 3D model with the evidence that justified each of them being represented on that Government visual display. As previously noted, the z-film indicates JFK was shot in the head at z-313 & fell across the back seat of his parade car a few frames later, out of sight to a TSBD 'sniper's nest' shooter. The Nix film shows the JFK parade car pulling away from the Queen Mary tailgating it by the end of the North pergola retaining wall with JFK out of sight before the car reaches the sidewalk steps. Where is the evidence that JFK was a visible target to a TSBD 'sniper's nest' shooter & was struck in his head & killed by such at the sidewalk steps location?

BM

Edited February 20, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Lawrence Schnapf]

have you looked into his analysis of the two fragments found in the front of the limo that he said could be traced back to the sixth floor rifle to the exclusion of all rifles based on the markings? This seems to suggest that the rifle was fired that day though, of course, it does not mean that LHO pulled the trigger. Just curious if there is anyone out there who has closely looked at this forensic evidence.

Thanks

[Jon G. Tidd]

Lawrence Schnapf,

I don't believe the FBI when it said the bullet fragments came from the rifle found in the TSBD, unless the fragments were planted in the limo or otherwise falsely represented to have come from the limo.

Even if one assumes the rifle examined by Robert Frazier on 11-23-63 was found in the TSBD (and is the same rifle held today in the National Archives), Frazier told the Warren Commission the rifle's barrel was badly corroded. Such corrosion would have had to occur in less than 24 hours if it were the murder weapon, given that a shot from the rifle the day before would have cleaned the barrel of all corrosion, as Frazier testified.

Such rapidity of heavy corrosion (it's clear Frazier used the word corrosion to mean rust) is hard to believe. Too hard IMO.

[Brad Milch]

Hi, Lawrence:

I'm focusing on the 3rd string on the FBI 3D model (WCD 298). Where in the Zapruder, Nix & Muchmore films does it indicate a headshot to JFK at the pergola sidewalk steps? Keep in mind, Life magazine posted a photo from the sniper's nest also indicating the pergola sidewalk steps as the place JFK was shot & killed in its' Nov 29, 1963 magazine. Life had the z-film under its belt. It should know what went down, right?

The question for today's researchers and interested persons to answer is 'what led the FBI & Life Magazine to determine JFK had been shot in the head in the vicinity of the pergola steps and not at Z-313 (demonstrated visually by WCD 298 & Life magazine dated 29 November, 1963)'?

The Z-film seen by the public clearly shows JFK's head exploding at Z-313 & the unfortunate victim falling out of sight across the back seat & no longer a visible target to a sniper's nest shooter immediately after the head explosion or at the pergola steps. What led both Life Magazine & the FBI to determine JFK not only was a visible target to a sniper's nest shooter at the pergola sidewalk steps but also that he was struck in the head & killed there? What evidence was the FBI relying on to make their determination of the 3rd shot visually demonstrated in their 3D model by the 3rd string (if not the Z-film, Nix & Muchmore films)?

If one visualizes a funnel in Hoover's mouth & all bullets, fragments & weapons collected in the ambush dropped into the funnel, it becomes clear that it was at Hoover's discretion what to spit out into the trash can, what to spit out on the table for all to see & what to destroy & replace with false evidence.

If one agrees with Doug Horne's analysis that the Z-film original was altered the assassination weekend, the 3D FBI model suggests additional alteration was performed during the life span of the WC. Something obviously was still in the z-film that was missed by Horne's Hawkeyeworks alterationists that convinced Hoover's FBI & Life magazine that JFK was shot further down Elm St. from z-313 that has since been removed from the z-film seen by the global public. If one rejects Horne's analysis, WCD 298 suggests the z-film was initially altered during the life span of the WC. It's either that or the FBI was lying about the headshot location (WCD 298 3D model 3rd string).

WCD 298 is the most important visual in the WC Report, IMHO. What Hoover's FBI initially determined how the ambush went down (and what Hoover was relaying to his buddy, LBJ on the phone) got swept under the rug by the HSCA. Diligent researchers today should focus on it & ask the questions contained within this comment. WCD 298 is the culmination of the re-enactment filming & surveying that took place in Dealey Plaza the week of JFK's funeral and also the 1st week of December, 1963. It's a visual depiction of what Hoover was explaining to LBJ in their released white house phone conversation the week the WC was created. It was the initial & closest analysis of the crime aided by Zapruder's big buck film. It was done by FBI & SS pros that had been performing crime scene analysis before a lot of folks were born or wearing diapers.

The fragments allegedly 'found' in the limo supports the Bugliosi argument that the 'Oswald weapon' had to have been used in the ambush because of the 'found' fragments. This requires 'blind faith' in the chain of custody, the persons within that chain & the validity of their 'evidence'. Where do these fragments tell the FBI, Life magazine & an interested global public that they resulted from a rifle shot to JFK's head at the pergola sidewalk steps? What evidence proves that determination? Where in the Z-film, Nix film & Muchmore film does one see JFK receiving a bullet wound to his head at the pergola sidewalk steps location? If the films don't indicate this (they don't), what evidence does? What evidence justified the 3rd string in WCD 298?

Robert Prudhomme has already demonstrated in his thread that the FBI lied about the Oswald weapon hitting near & far targets the same high & right measurements. WCD 298 demonstrates the FBI saw something in the z-film that no longer exists or was lying about the shot locations.

I expect any week now the researcher(s) that tackles the significance of WCD 298 & the reason for the absence of the Queen Mary & occupants simulated in attack re-enactments to appear in interviews on Len Osanic's Black Op Radio show. Such research may be the closest to the truth the public will ever see.

BM

Edited March 11, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Brad Milch]

A couple of afterthoughts for the Forum to consider:

Both Pam Brown & Greg Burnham have publicly stated they saw a version of the z-film that differs from what was released to the public. This places them in an elite group of persons that include Dick Stolley, Dan Rather, Dino Bruglioni & the film people in Dallas that initially processed Zapruder's original and made 3 copies of it. Mr. Burnham & Mrs. Brown's comments on if they saw any indication of JFK being shot in the head at the pergola sidewalk steps (as depicted in WCD 298) would add to this discussion immensely.

One primary weakness in Doug Horne's Hawkeyeworks z-film alteration analysis is the fact that Hoover's FBI & Rowley's SS both had original copies of the z-film & the opportunity to view them existed before, during & after the alleged Hawkeye alteration.

When the SS/FBI re-enactment filming began the week after the assassination it's obvious by the placement of the 3rd traffic cone (indicating the final shot) at the base of the pergola steps that something was viewed in the z-film that indicated JFK was shot in the head & killed at that spot and not at z-313. Viewers of said reenactment films can actually see DPD Lt. Day placing the 3rd cone exactly where the 3rd string in WCD 298 is placed. These actions tend to give weight to the side of the scale suggesting something was visible to initial government investigators in the z-film that was since removed over the scale suggesting Hoover's FBI was lying or mistaken about the 3rd shot.

When attention is diverted away from WCD 298 & the work that went into creating it & starts with the SBT a great disservice is done to the public & the history of the crime because Hoover's analysis gets forgotten about. The importance of Hoover's WCD 298 analysis to understanding the government's reaction to the crime & how they went about explaining it to the public cannot be over emphasized.

BM

[Robert Prudhomme]

This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to stand out in a section on actual JFK Research and not get hidden in other threads...IMHO

Yup, but there it was on Page 3 and sinking fast LOL

[Mark Wengler]

The people on the Warren Commission believed what Mr. Frazier said because he was with the FBI.. Also at that time you did not question the word of the FBI.