Allen Dulles and his secret behind Kennedy's assassintion

[Tom Neal]

Sure, the questioner was an amateur, and Helms was a professional.

Jon,

Can you identify this "amateur" by name? If not, why do you declare him to be an amateur?

Tom

[Tom Neal]

One of my favorite videos of Helms denying the CIA was responsible for Kennedy's death. One of the least believable interviews out there.

Excellent clip, Brian! Thanks for sharing.

The only thing that's missing is a zoom into a closeup of Helm's while he intones: "I was convicted of purjery, and to this day I wear that conviction as a badge of honor -- remember this, you CAN TRUST ME!"

For anyone who is unfamiliar, "wear it as a badge of honor" is indeed a direct quote. Not something Helms said once, but a mantra used again and again...

Tom

[Tom Neal]

And your source is a son of CIA's Bissell. What are his bonafides? What would you expect his father to say? Why would you or he think his father was telling the truth, or just the truth as he saw it?

Can you tell me what the difference is between a son of a CIA man and a conspiracy theorist?

Scott,

Paul Brancato has nailed it, but please allow me to elaborate and personalize:

I was not born a CONSPIRACY THEORIST. I became one by virtue of the information that I have acquired over a period of decades. I have weighed the evidence and made my decision. Having made that decision I remain open to any reasonable evidence to the contrary. My belief is not based on Faith, it is based on the best evidence available.

I was born my father's son. In dealing with me, I trust him more than anyone I know. I know the man, and base my trust on that. Am I biased on his behalf? Yes. Can your friend truly say that he not biased toward what his father told him?

Bissell and Dulles had the same belief system. Did your friend ever tell you if his father thought Kennedy should or should not have been assassinated? Knowing that under AWD, the CIA has actually assassinated heads of state; knowing CIA's goals at that time and JFK's direct interference with their achievement, I strongly *suspect* that any high-ranking CIA officer would agree that killing JFK was the best thing for the greater good. This of course doesn't mean any specific individual was actually involved, but it would dramatically affect his opinion as to the right or wrong of JFK's murder.

For Scott and John Tidd:

(Stepping up on my soapbox) I continue to be a student of the assassination as I believe are all (OK, ALMOST all) who post here. Whatever my overall belief, I accept any information that has been reasonably substantiated whether it supports my overall belief or undermines it. Whether an individual hates AWD, loves AWD, or places him somewhere within this range, can you honestly call yourself a student of the assassination while not only ignoring, but strongly rejecting out-of-hand the most up to date information on AWD?

Tom (Stepping down off his soapbox)

[Tom Neal]

Tom (who obviously thinks that a reasonable analysis of Dulles is impossible without reading THIS [Talbot's latest] book)

Even prior to Talbot's book, the case for the CIA's involvement had already been made.

The value of Talbot's book is in pinpointing the ringleader, as Tom points out.

Sandy,

Just to clarify/elaborate: Prior to reading "THE DEVIL'S CHESSBOARD" I was convinced that AWD was, at the VERY least a major participant in JFK's murder. The "Power Elite" wanted him dead. They needed someone with a track record of:

• flagrantly opposing the plans of the POTUS. e.g. Dulles making a personal deal with top nazi officials contrary to strict presidential orders; the BOP (no need to elaborate); assassination of Lamumba et al.
• experience in the successful assassination of Leaders of State while covering up any US involvement
• close long-term connections to the media to control the reaction of the press e.g. Henry Luce, et al

the list goes on and on...

Name someone else with this experience who hated JFK for publicly humiliating him and making his last official act the debacle that was the BOP?

"THE DEVIL'S CHESSBOARD" and all of its new insight to AWD did NOT change my previous opinion of him, but it did lower it even more and increase my confidence that whatever title you want to give him, AWD was a MAJOR player in getting this job done.

Tom

[Tom Neal]

I would love to hear from Mr. Talbot himself as to what multiple sources you yourself has pointed out he has used. I'm more interested in the sources beyond that.

Scott,

No sarcasm intended -- You continue to confuse -- Everything you ask for is in the book.

I don't understand your continual refusal to simply read the book...

Tom

[Scott Kaiser]

Tom (who obviously thinks that a reasonable analysis of Dulles is impossible without reading THIS [Talbot's latest] book)

Even prior to Talbot's book, the case for the CIA's involvement had already been made.

The value of Talbot's book is in pinpointing the ringleader, as Tom points out.

Sandy,

Just to clarify/elaborate: Prior to reading "THE DEVIL'S CHESSBOARD" I was convinced that AWD was, at the VERY least a major participant in JFK's murder. The "Power Elite" wanted him dead. They needed someone with a track record of:

• flagrantly opposing the plans of the POTUS. e.g. Dulles making a personal deal with top nazi officials contrary to strict presidential orders; the BOP (no need to elaborate); assassination of Lamumba et al.
• experience in the successful assassination of Leaders of State while covering up any US involvement
• close long-term connections to the media to control the reaction of the press e.g. Henry Luce, et al

the list goes on and on...

Name someone else with this experience who hated JFK for publicly humiliating him and making his last official act the debacle that was the BOP?

"THE DEVIL'S CHESSBOARD" and all of its new insight to AWD did NOT change my previous opinion of him, but it did lower it even more and increase my confidence that whatever title you want to give him, AWD was a MAJOR player in getting this job done.

Tom

Gentlemen,

Please forgive me, I'm starting to become a little ditzy in my years, it's not my blonde hair, but rather my gray making me this way. As I read the quote above, I'm assuming these are the facts of which many of you rely on for accusing Dulles in the connection of Kennedy's assassination, am I correct in saying that? AWD was a [major] player in getting the job done, Dulles is making personal deals with the Nazi's, and the "Power Elite" all wanted him dead, this is it? All answers as to why Dulles participated in Kennedy's assassination.

Please disregard my earlier post of exposing my PDF. I'm throwing out my facts, I don't need them anymore, the case is now solved by hearsay, theories and accusations.

[James DiEugenio]

SK: In-fact folks, we even have Jim telling us what Nixon would have done had he become president, now that's impressive

I hate to tell you this Scott but that was not me telling you what Nixon would have done. That was Nixon.

If you are unaware of this episode then you really should be reading more and better books, because all those Cubans you have been talking to and believing will not tell you this.

​As Operation Zapata was capsizing all around him, Kennedy consulted with Nixon. Nixon told him that if it was him, he would declare a beachhead and send in military forces. (Trumbull Higgins, The Perfect Failure, p. 150) That book has been around a lot of years. Prior to the ARRB it was the best book on Zapata. As Claude Rians said in Casablanca, "I am shocked, just shocked" that you have not read it.

​Which means, if you have not seen the film, that I am not shocked at all.

PS "I am shocked, just shocked" that you never answered my question about Dulles' termination.

Edited January 28, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Scott Kaiser]

JD: I hate to tell you this Scott but that was not me telling you what Nixon would have done. That was Nixon.

I hate to tell you this Jim, but Nixon never told me anything.

SK

[Scott Kaiser]

JD: PS "I am shocked, just shocked" that you never answered my question about Dulles' termination."

Here's looking at you kid.

[James DiEugenio]

SK: I hate to tell you this Jim, but Nixon never told me anything.

​I kind of knew that. He did tell Kennedy to send in the Marines at the Bay of Pigs though.

​PS Nice that you saw Casablanca. But I am still shocked you didn't answer my question about JFK terminating Dulles.

[Tom Neal]

No one informed me that we were 'doing Casablanca' tonight...

Or I would have added My favorite line:

Senor Ferrari: "As the leader of all illegal activities in Casablanca, I am an influential and respected man."

to the Richard Helms video.

Tom

[Scott Kaiser]

No one informed me that we were 'doing Casablanca' tonight...

Or I would have added My favorite line:

Senor Ferrari: "As the leader of all illegal activities in Casablanca, I am an influential and respected man."

to the Richard Helms video.

Tom

This is exactly why I believe difference of facts are important to debate, well, I say facts when I should have said facts vs theories. I myself have always been a bit partial "To Have and Have Not"

Sometimes I know what exactly you're going to say, the other times, the other times ya'll are just stinkers.... So, you're sure you won't change your mind about this? This belongs to me and so do my lips, I don't see any difference. You know folks you don't have to act with me, you don't have to say anything, and you don't have to do anything, not a thing. Or, may be just whistle, you know how to whistle don'tcha folks? You just put your lips together..... And blow!

Edited January 28, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[Tom Neal]

I myself have always been a bit partial "To Have and Have Not"

My first choice "The Big Sleep".

Relevance: More than half a century after it was over, we still don't know who killed the chauffeur...

Tom

[Scott Kaiser]

I myself have always been a bit partial "To Have and Have Not"

My first choice "The Big Sleep".

Relevance: More than half a century after it was over, we still don't know who killed the chauffeur...

Tom

I heard through the grapevine it was Connally and the "mansons," sounds like a group to me!

[Jon G. Tidd]

Tom Neal,

My "amateur" comment is based on the quality of questions the interviewer makes.

The interviewer clearly, in my opinion, lacks the knowledge and skill necessary to pin Helms against the ropes. Helms easily laughs as he shrugs off the questions.

As to the most up-to-date information about AWD, let me see if I can encapsulate that information. AWD helped certain Nazis and Nazi clients; he played against not only JFK but also the United States; on balance, he served private interests, not the public interest. If I've missed anything important not previously known about AWD, please let me know.

I have no doubt AWD should have been excluded from the Warren Commission; no doubt he early-on favored the Oswald-did-it-all-by-himself conclusion; and no doubt he's a stain on U.S. history. If I've missed here anything important about AWD, please let me know.

Do I believe he could have planned JFK's murder? No. Murdering JFK, IMO, was treason pure and simple if it was meant to remove him from office and pave the way for his successor. I don't think AWD, self-interested as he was, was capable of such overt treason. Sure, he played ball with Nazis. Who didn't on our side of the Atlantic. Even Roosevelt, upon McCloy's advice, failed to order bombing of the rail lines leading to the death camps. Truman and Eisenhower welcomed Nazis such as Gehlen and Von Braun into the United States. AWD was in very good company.