JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam in 1963

[Scott Kaiser]

You see DVP! I don't discriminate, I believe in the equal opportunity to get picked on.

[James DiEugenio]

Of course I knew that he was ambassador to India.

That is why he was in good position to know what was going on in Vietnam, very short flight to Saigon.

I think we are talking about a different time frame with Mansfield.

As you know, I don't agree with you at all on the coup.

But of course! Slaps my forehead, Kennedy call JKG in India and asked him to hop on an airplane to Vietnam since the distance between Vietnam and India is 3190.14 km= 1982.26 miles. And, of course if you travel by airplane (which has average speed of 560 miles) between Vietnam to India, It takes 3.54 hours to arrive. But I think in those days planes were a little slower, don't quote me on that, as for the coup, you're entitled to your opinion, although, it's not always correct.

Scott:

Do you know how far it is from Washington to Saigon?

[Scott Kaiser]

Of course I knew that he was ambassador to India.

That is why he was in good position to know what was going on in Vietnam, very short flight to Saigon.

I think we are talking about a different time frame with Mansfield.

As you know, I don't agree with you at all on the coup.

But of course! Slaps my forehead, Kennedy call JKG in India and asked him to hop on an airplane to Vietnam since the distance between Vietnam and India is 3190.14 km= 1982.26 miles. And, of course if you travel by airplane (which has average speed of 560 miles) between Vietnam to India, It takes 3.54 hours to arrive. But I think in those days planes were a little slower, don't quote me on that, as for the coup, you're entitled to your opinion, although, it's not always correct.

Scott:

Do you know how far it is from Washington to Saigon?

Jim, now, I may be wrong, rarely, but may be. What you want me to believe is this, JKG is in India, so, Kennedy wants JKG to go to VN, from VN travel to Washington, report to Kennedy.... THEN! Fly back to India, when Kennedy had already appointed Mansfield to fly from Washington, which he did, return back to Washington, which he did, report to Kennedy, which he did, give Kennedy his recommendation which he did, as Kennedy [knew' both he and Mansfield were opposed against the war, which he did.

But, rather than believing me you are still trying to find away out of this versus conceding a losing battle, I think you should reevaluate what I also have to say about the coup.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[Scott Kaiser]

If you want, get my first book. I don't recommend it though only because my first book is 248 pages, my update is 328 pages. A lot of information is in there. I have even given away a few PDFs I'm sure some folks have already taken a sneak peek, what they haven't seen is the pertinent information I purposely left out. Trust me, you're gonna want to review this book. Good luck!

Edited March 4, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[James DiEugenio]

Scott, I don't think you are up to speed on this.

See, Galbraith was part of Kennedy's White House.

And Kennedy knew he could rely on him for a contra opinion on the war.

Already being in Asia, it would be very easy for him to write a report.

Let me quote from David Kaiser's fine book, American Tragedy:

"He began by reading a memorandum he had just received from Ambassador to India John Kenneth Galbraith, who was just finishing a brief visit to the Unites States. In November of 1961, after submitting his comments on the Taylor Report, Galbraith had received permission from Kennedy to visit Saigon on his way back to India, apparently because the president wanted to give him a chance to develop his skeptical views.....Kennedy, who had known Galbraith for many years and frequently saw him socially, apparently had kept this advice to himself." (pgs. 131-32)

[James DiEugenio]

From Virtual JFK, the last paragraph of Galbraith's report:

"It will be said that we need troops for a show of strength and determination in the area. Since the troops will not deal with the fundamental faults...their failure to provide security could create a worse crisis of confidence. You will be aware of my general reluctance to move in troops. On the other hand I would note that it is those of us who have worked in the political vineyard and who have committed our hearts most strongly to the political fortunes of the New Frontier who worry most about its bright promise being sunk under the rice fields..." (p. 72)

This was sent on November 21, 1961. Its after the two weeks long debate in the White House, over combat troops which Kennedy faced down almost singlehandedly. Only advisors would be sent. But now he is back stopping that decision with Galbraith's very perceptive and poetically written report.

[James DiEugenio]

Now later on, in April of 1962, Kennedy had decided to use Galbraith to inform McNamara of what he was leaning towards.

From Virtual JFK, p. 129, this is Jamie Galbraith talking:

"Kennedy wanted a second opinion that he could use as a counter to Taylor and Rostow, and he got one. Kennedy instructed my father to prepare what I believe to be the memorandum in the briefing book. That was prepared on Kennedy's instructions.

Kennedy sent my father to talk to McNamara. My father reported that he and McNamara saw the issues in the same way. So I think the most likely explanation for McNamara's pressing this position is very simple, Kennedy told him to. Kennedy and he were agreed in advance that this was the course of policy that they were going to follow. That was a position they didn't share with anybody else, or with virtually no one else."

Some explanation may be in order.

First: the briefing book is the large notebook all the participants got at this seminar,which was the basis for the book Virtual JFK.. It included the JKG memo I quoted above.

Second, when Jamie Galbraith talks about the private agreement between JFK and McNamara, he is referring to a three way conversation between JFK, RSN and McGeorge Bundy on October 2, 1963. This was played at the conference. On the call, McNamara is talking about having to get out of Vietnam ASAP, and Bundy does not really understand it all. Why? Because Kennedy cut him out of the loop since he felt he was too hawkish.

And, btw in Goldstein's Lessons in Disaster, Bundy acknowledged this himself.

Edited March 4, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Scott Kaiser]

Jim, clam down and breathe. I'm not saying Galbraith wasn't part of Kennedy's White House "cabinet." My challenges to you have not been whether or not Galbraith had any communication with Kennedy. (You) said, "But right around this time, within a few weeks, he meaning (Kennedy) sent JKG to Saigon to give him a report and recommendation. I said, Jim, this is partially true, but you didn't want to believe me.

I especially told you that Galbraith had not gone to Vietnam, and I will tell you that Galbraith if he meet up with McNamara, it wasn't under the presidents direction. Secondly, Kennedy and McNamara did not see eye to eye about the Vietnam war when McNamara was "committed to more troops, and he wanted to escalate the war by using more military equipment," the very thing Mansfield and Kennedy were apposed to, it was until [after] president LBJ asked McNamara to resign in 1967 that he left office in 1968 only then did he have a change of heart towards the war.

Now, with all this said, I can careless about all the memos, letters, and late night phone calls to the president by Galbraith. Mr. Kennedy never, ever asked Galbraith to go to Vietnam and report back, that never happened. The more you try to veer off course, the less chance you will ever admit you're wrong. Listen, I have nothing to prove, I don't want a pat on the back on anything I may find and expose. I ask myself why in the hell did I find this and after 50 plus years that other good researchers did not? I even ask God, why me Lord? I don't care if I don't sell one book, but... If I had sold a billion books it's not because I'm hoping to get rich, it's because I want to tell a story no one has ever heard about, and if someone came to me with a billion dollars and said this is yours, I'd question why? My joy, happiness and excitement comes from getting the word out. I'm not in this for recognition. I can careless who reviews my book or not, it doesn't brother me if your views on the coup differ from mine. The only thing that matters to me is telling the truth, Martin asked for the truth, I simply gave it to him.

Whether you want to believe me or not is up to you, but it's you Jim who is not up to speed.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[David Von Pein]

TRACY RIDDLE ASKED:

Do you think JFK was trying to end the Cold War and get out of Vietnam at the time of his death?

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I think he was most certainly trying to end the Cold War. No doubt about that fact, IMO. (What President WOULDN'T want to put an end to that struggle?)

As far as the Vietnam question goes, no one can KNOW for certain what JFK would have done in the future re: Vietnam had he not been killed in Dallas. But he is on record himself saying "I think we should stay" and that it would be "a great mistake" for the U.S. to pull completely out of Vietnam (at least as of the date he made those statements to Walter Cronkite on CBS-TV on September 2, 1963; see Part 2 of the JFK interview linked below).

jfk-interview-cbs-tv-september-2-1963

So unless you want to believe the President was just telling a tall tale to the American public on national TV on that September day, then it's fairly clear that Kennedy was not planning to pull completely out of Vietnam as of late '63.

However, in his press conference on October 31, 1963, JFK did talk about the U.S. Government's plans to withdraw 1,000 men from southeast Asia by the end of 1963. (Go to about the 6:00 mark in the video below to hear JFK say it himself.)

jfk-press-conference-october-31-1963

But regardless of any decision and plans President Kennedy had concerning the troops in Vietnam, it's always been my opinion that the "Vietnam" question as it allegedly relates to JFK's assassination has always been nothing more than a red herring brought up by conspiracy hobbyists in order to attempt to cast doubt over the motive behind JFK's murder.

It was Lee Harvey Oswald who killed JFK. Nobody else did it or was involved, IMO. And I don't really think Oswald's motive for shooting Kennedy had anything whatsoever to do with the Vietnam situation. It had much more to do with Oswald's status as a "pro-Castro sympathizer", which he most certainly was, and is a status he freely exhibited via his August 1963 radio interviews in New Orleans.

DVP

Jan. 16, 2015 [Amazon.com]

http://www.amazon.com/R3MIQ55WOAFWV6

Edited March 4, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Scott Kaiser]

it's always been my opinion that the "Vietnam" question as it allegedly relates to JFK's assassination has always been nothing more than a red herring brought up by conspiracy hobbyists in order to attempt to cast doubt over the motive behind JFK's murder.

It was Lee Harvey Oswald who killed JFK.

And I don't really think Oswald's motive for shooting Kennedy had anything whatsoever to do with the Vietnam situation.

It had much more to do with Oswald's status as a "pro-Castro sympathizer",

David, you sometimes make sense, I see you're wearing your flip flops. Oswald had nothing to do with Kennedy's assassination, why is that so hard for you to believe? But, seriously David, when does your opinion, your "honest opinion," theories and hypothesis count? SMH....

[James DiEugenio]

SK: I especially told you that Galbraith had not gone to Vietnam, and I will tell you that Galbraith if he meet up with McNamara, it wasn't under the presidents direction. Secondly, Kennedy and McNamara did not see eye to eye about the Vietnam war when McNamara was "committed to more troops, and he wanted to escalate the war by using more military equipment," the very thing Mansfield and Kennedy were apposed to, it was until [after] president LBJ asked McNamara to resign in 1967 that he left office in 1968 only then did he have a change of heart towards the war.

​I hate to tell you this Scott, but what you write here is contradicted in the excerpts I just made.

1.) "Galbraith had received permission from Kennedy to visit Saigon on his way back to India, apparently because the president wanted to give him a chance to develop his skeptical views." from Kaiser

2.) "Kennedy sent my father to talk to McNamara. My father reported that he and McNamara saw the issues in the same way. So I think the most likely explanation for McNamara's pressing this position is very simple, Kennedy told him to. Kennedy and he were agreed in advance that this was the course of policy that they were going to follow. That was a position they didn't share with anybody else, or with virtually no one else." from Virtual JFK

At the beginning, in 1961, McNamara may have been for troop entry. This was not the case in 1962 and 1963 though. Its clear that, since he was in charge of the military that JFK wanted him to get the message that he was not going to commit combat troops into Vietnam. If the advisors did not do the trick, then he was going to get out.

What I like about this is quite simple: that is what happened. In May of 1963, at the Sec Def conference in Hawaii, McNamara supervised the large meeting of all defense departments and security departments from Vietnam and goes through every single department and asks them if they are on schedule for the withdrawal. When its all over, he says its not good enough, it has to be faster. Wheeler wrote a memo afterwards, saying that, from this meeting, he got the message the president would not tolerate any request for an extension. In fact, in November of 1963 Kennedy ordered an emergency evacuation plan.

In my opinion, whatever the phony debate about this previously, the documents of the ARRB have decided it. And we now can actually put it all together as to what Kennedy was doing, when and how he did it, why he did it, and how quickly LBJ and the CIA went along with the reversal, which, as many have noted, was underway as soon as the funeral was finished.

​And the odd thing is, McNamara went along with it. And he shut up about it all for 30 years.

Edited March 4, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Scott Kaiser]

SK: I especially told you that Galbraith had not gone to Vietnam, and I will tell you that Galbraith if he meet up with McNamara, it wasn't under the presidents direction. Secondly, Kennedy and McNamara did not see eye to eye about the Vietnam war when McNamara was "committed to more troops, and he wanted to escalate the war by using more military equipment," the very thing Mansfield and Kennedy were apposed to, it was until [after] president LBJ asked McNamara to resign in 1967 that he left office in 1968 only then did he have a change of heart towards the war.

​I hate to tell you this Scott, but what you write here is contradicted in the excerpts I just made.

1.) "Galbraith had received permission from Kennedy to visit Saigon on his way back to India, apparently because the president wanted to give him a chance to develop his skeptical views." from Kaiser

2.) "Kennedy sent my father to talk to McNamara. My father reported that he and McNamara saw the issues in the same way. So I think the most likely explanation for McNamara's pressing this position is very simple, Kennedy told him to. Kennedy and he were agreed in advance that this was the course of policy that they were going to follow. That was a position they didn't share with anybody else, or with virtually no one else." from Virtual JFK

At the beginning, in 1961, McNamara may have been for troop entry. This was not the case in 1962 and 1963 though. Its clear that, since he was in charge of the military that JFK wanted him to get the message that he was not going to commit combat troops into Vietnam. If the advisors did not do the trick, then he was going to get out.

What I like about this is quite simple: that is what happened. In May of 1963, at the Sec Def conference in Hawaii, McNamara supervised the large meeting of all defense departments and security departments from Vietnam and goes through every single department and asks them if they are on schedule for the withdrawal. When its all over, he says its not good enough, it has to be faster. Wheeler wrote a memo afterwards, saying that, from this meeting, he got the message the president would not tolerate any request for an extension. In fact, in November of 1963 Kennedy ordered an emergency evacuation plan.

In my opinion, whatever the phony debate about this previously, the documents of the ARRB have decided it. And we now can actually put it all together as to what Kennedy was doing, when and how he did it, why he did it, and how quickly LBJ and the CIA went along with the reversal, which, as many have noted, was underway as soon as the funeral was finished.

​And the odd thing is, McNamara went along with it. And he shut up about it all for 30 years.

1.) "Galbraith had received permission from Kennedy to visit Saigon on his way back to India, apparently because the president wanted to give him a chance to develop his skeptical views." from Kaiser

What are YOU talking about?!? I never said that!

2.) "Kennedy sent my father to talk to McNamara. My father reported that he and McNamara saw the issues in the same way. So I think the most likely explanation for McNamara's pressing this position is very simple, Kennedy told him to. Kennedy and he were agreed in advance that this was the course of policy that they were going to follow. That was a position they didn't share with anybody else, or with virtually no one else." from Virtual JFK

Should be called "virtual reality" this never happened!

At the beginning, in 1961, McNamara [may] have been for troop entry.

There is NO [may] McNamara wanted to go in with guns a blazing, send the whole damn United States if he could that's why he wanted Congress to over look the aptitude test so we could send in all the stupid people so they could get killed, and Kennedy was willing to aside with Senator Mansfield who I keep referring too who opposed the war, what part of that don't you understand?!?

Edited March 4, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[James DiEugenio]

1. Scott, its David Kaiser not you, and his book is American Tragedy. Please read the above carefully at post 20.

2. Then you are calling both John K Galbraith, and his son liars. Its also in Newman's book, which I consider pretty much the gold standard on the subject. Obviously you never read Virtual JFK or you could not say something that obtuse, which reminiscent of DVP or someone like Bob Carroll.

3. I already said that there was a group form Pentagon and State that wanted to send combat troops in, this included Taylor, Rostow, McNamara, Rusk and Bundy. This recommendation was based on the Taylor--Rostow report. Kennedy slammed the door on that.

He then commissioned the alternative report by JKG. This was later given to McNamara. That was in April of 1962; from then on in, McNamara is Kennedy's man on the withdrawal plan I mean he even told his assistant, Roswell Gilpatric, that he had been commissioned to put together a withdrawal plan. (Howard Jones, Death of a Generation, pgs.381-82) Once you put that together with the Sec Def meeting in May of 1963, and the October 2nd phone call referred to above, its pretty obvious that JFK had entrusted McNamara with this exit strategy.

Edited March 5, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Scott Kaiser]

1. Scott, its David Kaiser not you, and his book is American Tragedy. Please read the above carefully at post 20.

2. Then you are calling both John K Galbraith, and his son liars. Its also in Newman's book, which I consider pretty much the gold standard on the subject. Obviously you never read Virtual JFK or you could not say something that obtuse, which reminiscent of DVP or someone like Bob Carroll.

3. I already said that there was a group form Pentagon and State that wanted to send combat troops in, this included Taylor, Rostow, McNamara, Rusk and Bundy. This recommendation was based on the Taylor--Rostow report. Kennedy slammed the door on that.

He then commissioned the alternative report by JKG. This was later given to McNamara. That was in April of 1962; from then on in, McNamara is Kennedy's man on the withdrawal plan I mean he even told his assistant, Roswell Gilpatric, that he had been commissioned to put together a withdrawal plan. (Howard Jones, Death of a Generation, pgs.381-82) Once you put that together with the Sec Def meeting in May of 1963, and the October 2nd phone call referred to above, its pretty obvious that JFK had entrusted McNamara with this exit strategy.

Jim, what am I suppose to do? Am I suppose to concede because you're Jim? Are you telling me that you don't want me to be honest? Is this how it's suppose to work? I told you that JKG never met with Kennedy regarding his opinion about the Vietnam war, that "opinion" belongs to Kennedy, and Kennedy alone. Who Kennedy elect's to communicate with and send to Vietnam is Kennedy's decision, and Kennedy's decision alone as my second cousin Congressman Donald Irwin would say.

Jim, you're a good researcher, and I have nothing against you, I don't know you, but what reason do I have to lie? I've never been in politics as was my father, I never spoke up for Kennedy or spoke badly about him. I'm not a person that chooses sides. I'm not a conspiracy theorist nor do I believe Oswald acted alone. I am probably the single most liberal person when it comes to Kennedy.

There things you are very much unaware of. What if I told you that I do know for a fact that Oswald was not involved in Kennedy's assassination would you believe me? You'd want proof, you'd want to know how would a guy, someone like me would know something like this right? You'd want proof that what I'm saying is true right? What if I told you that not only was Oswald not involved, but I plan on exposing within my power to "prove" what I say is true, not some statement about what might be virtually true. I don't care what David Kaiser or the Pope wrote about Kennedy's assassination, can I get through to you on this?

Jim, it's a sad day when people start to listen to those who think they are just so much smarter then everyone else that degenerates, untruthful folks like me can't tell you the truth.

[James DiEugenio]

FIne, no comment. We disagree.